Zos, we need an explanation

Pinktraining · May 5

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

I support the Nightblade buff, but I'm unsure if higher critical damage applies to Nightblade in PvP. In my opinion, the Nightblade's ambush-and-kill playstyle does indeed alienate many non-Nightblade players, and higher critical damage could exacerbate this conflict.

MashmalloMan · May 5

IncultaWolf wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

I've seen like 2 nightblade mains during this pts cycle. Sorc mains are a lot more vocal on the forums I guess.

Maybe, but I think they're also slightly more popular due to it being a new player friendly class. The amount of PvE Shock Heavy Attack builds I run into despite Fatecarver being much easier and more competitive is really, really high. NB doesn't really have a low APM option.. and of course there's pets.

Plus, beloved Implosion made a comeback, but quickly met heavy nerfs due to parse cheese, it's easy to be vocal when ZOS again, doesn't understand the context in which their game is played. I'm surprised there isn't more outraged about the 5% in PVP which is nearly useless, too much talk about the PvE side of things I guess where it's fine.

Also, Sorc rework is less than 6 months away from PTS, NB is at least 1 year away if they keep up the same update schedule and Vampire doesn't get a patch, we can feel the electricity in the air lol.

YandereGirlfriend · May 5

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

If I had to guess, I would say that they have heard the loud criticism that there is too much easy Crit Dam floating around in PvP with subclassing these days... but then they took it out on the wrong target.

MashmalloMan · May 5

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

If I had to guess, I would say that they have heard the loud criticism that there is too much easy Crit Dam floating around in PvP with subclassing these days... but then they took it out on the wrong target.

Right, but unrelated to NB who loses -20% or more crit damage from not subclassing where this Mastery actually becomes available. It's entirely backwards, and they're placing so much weight on the Crit Cap as if they can build to it, which tells me they don't understand what an actual balanced PvP build looks like.

Who's going to build 190~220% Critical Damage to make the 160% cap worth it?!

Dracane · May 5

MashmalloMan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

If I had to guess, I would say that they have heard the loud criticism that there is too much easy Crit Dam floating around in PvP with subclassing these days... but then they took it out on the wrong target.

Right, but unrelated to NB who loses -20% or more crit damage from not subclassing where this Mastery actually becomes available. It's entirely backwards, and they're placing so much weight on the Crit Cap as if they can build to it, which tells me they don't understand what an actual balanced PvP build looks like.

Who's going to build 190~220% Critical Damage to make the 160% cap worth it?!

As much as I want it, these class masteries aren't made with the intention of pvp. They said they are aimed at bringing pure classes closer to subclassed builds in endgame PvE. PvP is just an afterthought in the sense that some Battle Spirit limitations are being imposed.

Looking at these masteries through the lens of PvP is futile and will surely drive one to madness, as it has done for some already. So looking at this crit cap from a PvP standpoint won't yield any answers, because it's not made for PvP.

MashmalloMan · May 5

Dracane wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The Crit Damage Mastery nerf is whatever for PvE, I'd even say fair, but the fact that it only gives 5% Crit Damage/Healing in PvP must be some sort of joke. Further evidence ZOS doesn't understand PvP context, let alone what Critical Resistance really is or how it's built for.

1 more week though, y'all NB mains could get it fixed in time if you scream loud enough. 😅

If I had to guess, I would say that they have heard the loud criticism that there is too much easy Crit Dam floating around in PvP with subclassing these days... but then they took it out on the wrong target.

Right, but unrelated to NB who loses -20% or more crit damage from not subclassing where this Mastery actually becomes available. It's entirely backwards, and they're placing so much weight on the Crit Cap as if they can build to it, which tells me they don't understand what an actual balanced PvP build looks like.

Who's going to build 190~220% Critical Damage to make the 160% cap worth it?!

As much as I want it, these class masteries aren't made with the intention of pvp. They said they are aimed at bringing pure classes closer to subclassed builds in endgame PvE. PvP is just an afterthought in the sense that some Battle Spirit limitations are being imposed.

Looking at these masteries through the lens of PvP is futile and will surely drive one to madness, as it has done for some already. So looking at this crit cap from a PvP standpoint won't yield any answers, because it's not made for PvP.

Yeah I guess so. It's perplexing to say the least, it's odd that they wouldn't just go with the ol' slap of -50% if it was such an issue though. They really must think that cap increase is the bee's knee's, otherwise why bother with the specificity.

Turtle_Bot · May 5

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jestir wrote: »

As always there is a giant disconnect between pve and pvp, in pve nightblade was over performing and DK was arguable the second worst class only ahead of templar

Was it even overperforming in pve ? what was pure nb parsing compared to other class? I know I saw 180k+ on dk/ww and sorc

Correction here:

Sorc was cheesing 180k on the dummy using a build that is not viable at all in actual group content. Realistic sorc parses were sitting around 140-150k (in week 3) and closer to 160k with the week 4 buffs/nerf reversals.

NB was sitting around 165k on week 3 last I saw, I haven't seen any parses since then though, so it's not that far off Sorc (at least when it comes down to actual content viable builds and not trying to cheese the dummy to inflate numbers for youtube clickbait).

Meanwhile WW still hitting 200k+ post week 4 changes (parse CMX can seen on one of the many WW threads with another parse at 192k).

Renato90085 · May 5

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jestir wrote: »

As always there is a giant disconnect between pve and pvp, in pve nightblade was over performing and DK was arguable the second worst class only ahead of templar

Was it even overperforming in pve ? what was pure nb parsing compared to other class? I know I saw 180k+ on dk/ww and sorc

NB + WW was hitting 200k+.

Not sure what pureBlade was doing by itself.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jestir wrote: »

As always there is a giant disconnect between pve and pvp, in pve nightblade was over performing and DK was arguable the second worst class only ahead of templar

Was it even overperforming in pve ? what was pure nb parsing compared to other class? I know I saw 180k+ on dk/ww and sorc

Correction here:

Sorc was cheesing 180k on the dummy using a build that is not viable at all in actual group content. Realistic sorc parses were sitting around 140-150k (in week 3) and closer to 160k with the week 4 buffs/nerf reversals.

NB was sitting around 165k on week 3 last I saw, I haven't seen any parses since then though, so it's not that far off Sorc (at least when it comes down to actual content viable builds and not trying to cheese the dummy to inflate numbers for youtube clickbait).

Meanwhile WW still hitting 200k+ post week 4 changes (parse CMX can seen on one of the many WW threads with another parse at 192k).

it my real content build(arca/aegis/mask or mora shoulder)
week3

week 4

and first week nb is 156k,but the cmx i delete

warm_blanket · May 5

The teams understanding of pvp usually lags some years behind the meta, so at least the battlespirit tags on these masteries are likely a misguided attempt to curb ganking.

They implied as much during the previews, considering nb's kit problematic in pvp, yet they haven't caught on that current meta gank builds don't subclass into nb, let alone base off it for the masteries to matter.

Even cloak is seen as redundant at best, which I'm sure would come as a surprise to them.

tbqh i'd rather they stopped viewing nb as just a gankbot and supported the shadow wizard & blood mage archetype more. Probably have to wait for the revamp.

Turtle_Bot · May 5

Renato90085 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jestir wrote: »

As always there is a giant disconnect between pve and pvp, in pve nightblade was over performing and DK was arguable the second worst class only ahead of templar

Was it even overperforming in pve ? what was pure nb parsing compared to other class? I know I saw 180k+ on dk/ww and sorc

NB + WW was hitting 200k+.

Not sure what pureBlade was doing by itself.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Jestir wrote: »

As always there is a giant disconnect between pve and pvp, in pve nightblade was over performing and DK was arguable the second worst class only ahead of templar

Was it even overperforming in pve ? what was pure nb parsing compared to other class? I know I saw 180k+ on dk/ww and sorc

Correction here:

Sorc was cheesing 180k on the dummy using a build that is not viable at all in actual group content. Realistic sorc parses were sitting around 140-150k (in week 3) and closer to 160k with the week 4 buffs/nerf reversals.

NB was sitting around 165k on week 3 last I saw, I haven't seen any parses since then though, so it's not that far off Sorc (at least when it comes down to actual content viable builds and not trying to cheese the dummy to inflate numbers for youtube clickbait).

Meanwhile WW still hitting 200k+ post week 4 changes (parse CMX can seen on one of the many WW threads with another parse at 192k).

it my real content build(arca/aegis/mask or mora shoulder)
week3

week 4

and first week nb is 156k,but the cmx i delete

hmmm, 182k week 3 and 175k now (week 4) on NB, so a very small nerf overall (~4%) from weeks 3 to 4, but still very close to the 180k average that most classes are at and a very big improvement on the 156k from week 1 NB.