Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?

CameraBeardThePirate · May 4

SilverBride wrote: »

Psyphiman wrote: »

I wish ZOS stopped allowing two posters to spam the forums with threads rehashing the same complaints.

This thread isn't a complaint. It's asking a valid question that I haven't seen addressed.

Except it was addressed. Multiple times in this very thread.

There's no normal mode because Night Market is already the "Normal Mode". It is balanced around a normal trial level of difficulty. If you're asking why there is no solo version of Night Market, that's because like Normal Trials, it is built for pugging with groups.

If anything, you should be asking why there's no Veteran mode, which if you are asking that:

There are not 2 difficulty levels because it is a zone, and zones do not have multiple difficulty levels.

That's it. That's your answer. It really is as straightforward as that.

No, solo and casual players are not being excluded from participating anymore than a PvP-only player is being "excluded" from playing dungeon content. They have the same ability to join a pug group and play the NM as any other player.

If it's not your thing, it's not your thing.

CP5 · May 4

SilverBride wrote: »

This is excluding a lot of players and I think they should provide 2 difficulty modes like they have been doing for the last 12 years. Others may disagree but this is my opinion and my feedback and my suggestion.

You seemed fine being against applying that kind of an option to overland for the past several years. Just saying, but that aside NM is normal trial equivalent, and many of the bosses in this piece of content designed for groups are still comparable to existing group content, so yeah, if anything a harder vet mode of NM for organized raids of 12 or even 36 would be awesome. Imagine, coordinated pvp sized zergs fighting bosses that demand that kind of organization and output. That would be awesome, as it stands NM reminds me more of a pug nCR run, everyone is a headless chicken and somehow we win.

SilverBride · May 4

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Psyphiman wrote: »

I wish ZOS stopped allowing two posters to spam the forums with threads rehashing the same complaints.

This thread isn't a complaint. It's asking a valid question that I haven't seen addressed.

Except it was addressed. Multiple times in this very thread.

I asked the question in the original post. It could not have been addressed in this thread before it was even asked.

SilverBride · May 4

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is excluding a lot of players and I think they should provide 2 difficulty modes like they have been doing for the last 12 years. Others may disagree but this is my opinion and my feedback and my suggestion.

You seemed fine being against applying that kind of an option to overland for the past several years.

I was against a separate instance. But very early on in the pinned thread I agreed to optional difficulty.

WaywardArgonian · May 4

Today I started a group with a friend who mainly RPs, we put it on the group finder and we had a full group before reaching the first mob. Minimal communication done, we just circled the district a few times doing all the quests and defeating all the bosses. This was on a Monday afternoon.

Bottom-line: it really is not difficult to group up and you don't have to be a great nor sociable player to make it work. People only exclude themselves.

heimdall14_9 · May 4

Wildberryjack wrote: »

They did claim the night market would be soloable, but it would be hard to do. Ok that's fine but the truth is it is NOT soloable in any way whatsoever. And if you can't find a group you have to just forget it.

the only part i cant 100% solo is 1 gilded ( timeless wallow ) and trial both of them are made for group play like dungeons and trials so im not mad about that as the rest of it i can solo , tho having a group makes it faster fights i dont 100% have to have others around , i dont just say this i actually got my 1st set of keys solo ( argents and 2 gildeds ) and am 1 away from getting back into trial where i plan to do the NO DEATH ACHIEVEMENT this time around

Malprave · May 4

Make a normal mode and completely torpedo the whole event? Terrible idea.

BagOfBadgers · May 5

SilverBride wrote: »

If the Night Market is what we get in place of new dungeons then why is there just a difficult mode? Every dungeon and trial and arena have both normal and veteran modes. Why does the Night Market not have the same? Why was the typical way to present group content changed for this?

Only having a difficult mode excludes a lot of players from being able to participate. Adding a normal difficulty would help a lot more players be able to participate.

Look at it as this way, this NM is NORMAL difficulty I would be interested to see a Vet instance, could be fun for a few seconds!

You don't want to do it, so move on it's a 1 event, that's right, just 1.

All these thread about NM being "not aimed at me", not “solo-able” (it is, you just need to skill and gear for it), too difficult, fly in the face of facts. It's having massive buy in by many, many players who have never done difficult content as the naysayers tell them it's hard and toxic. It's not for you and others, we get that.

I don't complain about others and ZOS, when there is Housing/Fashion/RP/ERP/PvP that I'm not wanting/able to do. If I did it would come across as petty and bitter.

Hard content is Hard and for Grouped content Grouped, who would have thought that. Crazzy I know.

It's seem that you always have to have a topic on the front page of forum and seems like you are here more that playing ESO, you know, the MMO not ES1/2/3/4/5, and I'm really looking forward to ES6 being released as all this “It's not for me, as it's grouped/hard” complaints will naff off a rolling doughnut down a steep hill.

Rant over. It's not for you and whoever, deal with it!

SilverBride · May 5

I merely asked a question.

Erickson9610 · May 5

SilverBride wrote: »

I merely asked a question.

Event Zones are new.
They are not instanced content;
ergo, just one mode.

So, in other words,
no split by difficulty.
Same challenge for all.

SilverBride · May 5

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I merely asked a question.

Event Zones are new.
They are not instanced content;
ergo, just one mode.

So, in other words,
no split by difficulty.
Same challenge for all.

You get bonus points for answering with Haikus! And for providing an answer that is reasonable and makes sense to me. I still wish there was a way to make a less intense version, though.

[Edit] Now that I think about it, I thought it was instanced. At least the dungeon and trial parts.

twisttop138 · May 5

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

I would believe it ties to the leaderboard. There are rewards tied to the winning faction, which makes me think ZOS wants to make players put some effort into the system.

Players exclude themselves.

EDIT: This post is another I only want to play solo post, can we merge these? Into the main feedback thread?

Yes, a merged thread would be great.

Especially because it's the same handful of folk dominating posting in them.

Funny, hyperoxies did a video on the night market pts nerf thread and showed it was the same handful of people repeatedly posting to make it appear as though support was overwhelming. I see a lot of the same names pop up in amongst the legitimately given feedback. Must be a thing only elites notice, maybe they'll talk about us on the last episode of infowars. Oh and that thing we're doing to the frogs.

Necrotech_Master · May 5

SilverBride wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I merely asked a question.

Event Zones are new.
They are not instanced content;
ergo, just one mode.

So, in other words,
no split by difficulty.
Same challenge for all.

You get points for answering with Haikus. And for providing an answer that is reasonable and makes sense to me. I still wish there was a way to make a less intense version, though.

[Edit] Now that I think about it, I thought it was instanced. At least the dungeon and trial parts.

the night market is itself an instance (capped at 36 players), then there are other separate instances for the dungeons (capped at 4 players) and the trial (capped at 12 players)

i think its using the same rules as a public dungeon (which those are also separate instances from overland)

SilverBride · May 5

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

[Edit] Now that I think about it, I thought it was instanced. At least the dungeon and trial parts.

the night market is itself an instance (capped at 36 players), then there are other separate instances for the dungeons (capped at 4 players) and the trial (capped at 12 players)

i think its using the same rules as a public dungeon (which those are also separate instances from overland)

So it's a instance with separate instances inside the instance? And players can freely move from the main instance into a dungeon or trial part?

Thanks for the explanation.

katanagirl1 · May 6

I have been enjoying the NM, but I kind of wish they had done this after the overland difficulty setting was enabled so it was more soloable for us mere mortals and the super sweats could then dial the difficulty up to their level.

Our guild wants everyone to get their relics before we do group dungeons so I am sort of in a holding pattern. I don’t like having to rely on others to make progress.

EDIT: To complete my thought, there just really isn’t anything you can do in there solo other than a few fetch quests. I got bored in there doing that today. I also don’t care to fight more bosses when I’m going to have to do that multiple times more to get keys.

frogthroat · May 6

There are difficulty levels.

Solo

Normal - mobs, questing, minigames
Veteran - The Parch world boss
Veteran HM - Brazen (low) bosses

4 player group

Normal - Brazen (low) bosses
Veteran - Some of the Argent (high) bosses
Veteran HM - Roaming bosses in Skitter and Sorrow, the rest of the Argent bosses

12 player group

Normal - Argent bosses
Veteran - Skirmishes, Argent bosses with a roaming boss
Veteran HM - Skirmishes with a roaming boss

Choosing the activity is choosing the difficulty level.

LesserCircle · May 6

Just like a trial NM is in normal mode, also just like a normal trial you still need a group, hope this helps.

Ardriel · May 6

It’s unfair to imply here that people are bad players if they can’t solo this content. That’s a contradiction. People claim that players don’t want to do group content, and then they’re judged because they can’t do it solo?
Night Market is group content. If you can’t do it solo—at least any encounter beyond trash mobs—that doesn’t mean the player is bad. Even the best build and the best parse won’t help there.

The person who started this thread asked a perfectly legitimate question. There’s no reason to judge them or assume that they’re too lazy, socially inept, or otherwise incapable of doing difficult content.

I don’t see a problem with 2 difficulty levels. Another option would be to adjust the difficulty in the Night Market so that it scales with the new difficulty levels after Update 50.
The argument that everything is made far too easy is not valid. After all, there are normal and veteran versions of dungeons, raids, and arenas.
Should we force players to do everything on veteran mode from now on? The arrogance that sometimes prevails among players is, at times, really unbearable. Get off your high horses.

SolarRune · May 6

I would really like a night market that is actually tuned to veteran level for groups, bearing in mind the night market zones then lead into the dungeons and a trial - and they dont have different difficulty levels either.

That said i do think the NM is as close to perfectly positioned as possible. As per the marketing, they are encouraging grouping in the main zones, but there is a clear need to group for the dungeons and trials. In that way it's a really interesting intro for people into group content. Are there people soloing? Yes, are they doing it like everything else and clearing everything? No, they are adapting how they play, but people are collecting many points without grouping - i mean you can't complete the whole NM experience without the group parts of dungeon and trial. I've spent solo time in there as well and picked up points, but I admit I play eso for the group play, so I have gravitated towards that.

If it were easier, then we would be getting complaints about something that should be many weeks of entertainment being completed in a few days because of being so easy - I know there are still some in this position, even with the difficulty at its current level.

One thing I do need to applaud and hope is a future direction of travel is the trial - the length of the battle is not due to things like invulnerability phases but actual teamwork - I and the people I have run with really enjoyed it (done both guild runs and pug runs).

Gabriel_H · May 6

Why isn't there a normal mode for Public Dungeons? Because that's all the NM is, just on a bigger scale.

Taken from my post in another thread. Here's a rough summary of content by ascending difficulty:

Overland Mobs/Delve Mobs
Delve Boss
Normal Dungeon Mobs - Base Game
Public Dungeon Mobs
Normal Trial Mobs - Base Game
Normal Dungeon Boss - Base Game
Craglorn Mobs - Group Areas
Veteran Dungeon Mobs - Base Game
Night Market Mobs
Overland World Boss - Base Game
Normal Dungeon Mobs - DLC
Public Dungeon Boss - Base Game
Public Dungeon Group Event - Base Game
Craglorn Boss - Group Areas
Normal Dungeon Boss - DLC
Normal Trial Boss - Base Game
Night Market Dungeon Boss
Veteran Dungeon Mobs - DLC
Veteran Trial Mobs - Base Game
Night Market Brazen Boss
Veteran Dungeon Trifecta - Base Game
Public Dungeon Boss - DLC
Public Dungeon Group Event - DLC
Night Market Argent Boss
Veteran Trial Boss - Base Game
Overland World Boss - DLC
Night Market Calamitous Boss
Veteran Trial Mobs - DLC
Veteran Dungeon Boss - DLC
Night Market Skirmish
Veteran Trial Boss - DLC
…
…
A very very very wide gap aka hardcore
…
…
Veteran Dungeon Trifecta - DLC
…
…
A very very very wide gap aka hardcore
…
…
Veteran Trial Trifecta - DLC

Blood_again · May 6

The OP question is invalid. It is wrongly formulated and misses some fact-checking.

Simple fact:
- Night Market 4-people dungeons and 12-people trial have normal mode.

Proof:
I intentionally set the group mode to vet before entering the dungeon.
Then I entered the dungeon. See, before and after.

OP, you can check it with the trial. I know what you'll see.

Now, while everybody plays the normal mode content, I would ask:
Why isn't there a veteran mode for Night Market content?
I would love to see it along with HM, timerun, and nodeath achievements.
Not having a veteran mode excludes veteran players from having fun and a fair challenge.

SneaK · May 6

PvE’rs need Vengeance brought down upon them.

Four_Fingers · May 6

Wow, hard to remember this is just a video game.

SilverBride · May 6

Blood_again wrote: »

The OP question is invalid. It is wrongly formulated and misses some fact-checking.

How can a question be invalid or wrongly formulated? I asked a question about why the Night Market didn't follow the formula we have seen in dungeons and trials for 12 years now, which was having both normal and veteran modes, and some posters provided replies that explained things from their perspective.

About missing fact-checking, if I had all the facts I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.

Blood_again · May 6

You title:

SilverBride wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

The OP question is invalid. It is wrongly formulated and misses some fact-checking.

How can a question be invalid or wrongly formulated? I asked a question about why the Night Market didn't follow the formula we have seen in dungeons and trials for 12 years now, which was having both normal and veteran modes, and some posters provided replies that explained things from their perspective.

About missing fact-checking, if I had all the facts I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.

Your title

Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?

supposes that there is no normal mode.

The fact is that it is normal mode.
You ask for something that already is in the game.

Do you want a separation for normal and veteran? Join me in the request for a veteran mode.

SilverBride · May 6

Blood_again wrote: »

You title:

SilverBride wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

The OP question is invalid. It is wrongly formulated and misses some fact-checking.

How can a question be invalid or wrongly formulated? I asked a question about why the Night Market didn't follow the formula we have seen in dungeons and trials for 12 years now, which was having both normal and veteran modes, and some posters provided replies that explained things from their perspective.

About missing fact-checking, if I had all the facts I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.

Your title

Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?

supposes that there is no normal mode.

The fact is that it is normal mode.
You ask for something that already is in the game.

Do you want a separation for normal and veteran? Join me in the request for a veteran mode.

I think my question was clearly stated.

Blood_again · May 6

SilverBride wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

You title:

SilverBride wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

The OP question is invalid. It is wrongly formulated and misses some fact-checking.

How can a question be invalid or wrongly formulated? I asked a question about why the Night Market didn't follow the formula we have seen in dungeons and trials for 12 years now, which was having both normal and veteran modes, and some posters provided replies that explained things from their perspective.

About missing fact-checking, if I had all the facts I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.

Your title

Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?

supposes that there is no normal mode.

The fact is that it is normal mode.
You ask for something that already is in the game.

Do you want a separation for normal and veteran? Join me in the request for a veteran mode.

I think my question was clearly stated.

It was stated against the facts.
The fact is that the current mode is normal.
Considering this, the logical and necessary step will be adding a veteran mode.

SilverBride · May 6

Blood_again wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I think my question was clearly stated.

It was stated against the facts.
The fact is that the current mode is normal.
Considering this, the logical and necessary step will be adding a veteran mode.

Most of the replies appear to have understood what I was asking. My question is the topic of this thread, not how I asked it.

Blood_again · May 6

SilverBride wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I think my question was clearly stated.

It was stated against the facts.
The fact is that the current mode is normal.
Considering this, the logical and necessary step will be adding a veteran mode.

Most of the replies appear to have understood what I was asking. My question is the topic of this thread, not how I asked it.

Your question misses the fact of the existing mode.
Now this fact is open and clear.
Do you ignore the fact that the current mode of the Night Market is normal?

salander7 · May 6

SilverBride wrote: »

Most of the replies appear to have understood what I was asking. My question is the topic of this thread, not how I asked it.

The answer is that there is already a normal night market mode, the currently live version is the normal mode.