Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience

tsaescishoeshiner · May 3

Why would one group content update make you aftaid that everything will become difficult and group–based? Especially when solo content like Sage's Vault has been announced, among others.

When Companions were released (easy solo content), it wasn't rational to think the whole game would become easy solo content.

SANGUARI · May 3

Why do you play an MMO (massively multiplayer online) if you want to be alone? These posts are starting to get ridiculous.

SilverBride · May 3

SANGUARI wrote: »

Why do you play an MMO (massively multiplayer online) if you want to be alone? These posts are starting to get ridiculous.

Being in a group for combat isn't the only way to interact with others in an MMO. I much prefer to do most things solo so I can do them my own way in my own time. But most of the time I am playing "alone" I am chatting with friends, or participating in zone chat, or stopping what I'm doing to help someone asking for World Boss help, or answering questions or requests for help in guild chat, etc.. So playing solo does not mean playing alone. And playing an MMO does not mean constant grouping.

Athory · May 3

What part is so hard to understand? I’ll break it down into points so I can explain it better if needed:

No one is asking for a nerf in the [snip] Market. At least, I’m not. In fact, I don’t care if ZoS makes it even harder. If some players enjoy that, why not? Any issues with this point?
Why can’t we have a “normal” mode in the [snip] Market? Why not? Why don’t solo players have the option this time to play the game the way it has always been—Normal → Veteran → Veteran HM? Why change that core structure now?
Is ZoS planning to make future content this difficult as well? If so, then we’re back to the main question: does ZoS plan to exclude solo players from the game?
If the answer is yes, then fine, I don’t have a problem with that, and I’ll simply leave the game. But I need to understand the truth: why exclude solo players from having a “normal” mode? Why move away from “play as you want” to “play-with-others or bye bye”?
ZoS added this new “hardcore” content, and I honestly have nothing bad to say about it. Nothing at all. But they could also add a “normal” mode so more players can enjoy it. Why not?
Dungeons and trials are group content, right? (Yes, some can be soloed with high DPS, but you get my point.) Still, all MMO content in ESO usually has a “normal” mode for more casual players. So why not the [snip] Market?

Again:

No one is asking for a nerf.
Solo/casual players should have the same opportunity to enjoy the market.

So why exclude them this time? Give me one valid reason why ZoS should exclude “normal” casual players from enjoying the market.

EDIT:
I refuse, I don’t like it, and I don’t want to play a game where the rule is “play with others or bye-bye.” Because let’s be honest… ESO is not the best MMO in the world... lol!. If I’m looking for a massive multiplayer experience, I can find plenty of better options out there.

And that’s what I want to understand from ZoS. Is it really that hard to accept?

SANGUARI · May 3

SilverBride wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

Why do you play an MMO (massively multiplayer online) if you want to be alone? These posts are starting to get ridiculous.

Being in a group for combat isn't the only way to interact with others in an MMO. I much prefer to do most things solo so I can do them my own way in my own time. But most of the time I am playing "alone" I am chatting with friends, or participating in zone chat, or stopping what I'm doing to help someone asking for World Boss help, or answering questions or requests for help in guild chat, etc.. So playing solo does not mean playing alone. And playing an MMO does not mean constant grouping.

So you can cooperate with people for world bosses, so do it here too?

robwolf666 · May 3

Athory wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?

Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

No and no. It'd be pretty fatal for them to do either since the vast majority of the game is solo play oriented, even if it is an MMO.

LadyGP · May 3

Devs add something for group play (one could argue you can make a super tanky status effect build and solo slow burn NM on your own but...) and then we get comments like this...

"Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?"

... Do you honestly expect devs to respond/take people seriously when they have such extreme takes like this? There are literally hundred of hours of solo content in this game... how is adding a special..limited time group event thing pushing solos away?

Heres a wild idea...

All the solo people on the forums saying the game is dead.. it's too hard..etc should just go into NM together...

Easy fix, no? The group finder is full of NM stuff... you're only solo because you decide you want to be solo.

Respectfully, takes like this are a "you problem" and bashing ZoS for thinking outside the box and giving us some new fresh fun content like this is just going to make them not want to think outside of the box anymore.

Athory · May 3

LadyGP wrote: »

Devs add something for group play (one could argue you can make a super tanky status effect build and solo slow burn NM on your own but...) and then we get comments like this...

"Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?"

... Do you honestly expect devs to respond/take people seriously when they have such extreme takes like this? There are literally hundred of hours of solo content in this game... how is adding a special..limited time group event thing pushing solos away?

Heres a wild idea...

All the solo people on the forums saying the game is dead.. it's too hard..etc should just go into NM together...

Easy fix, no? The group finder is full of NM stuff... you're only solo because you decide you want to be solo.

Respectfully, takes like this are a "you problem" and bashing ZoS for thinking outside the box and giving us some new fresh fun content like this is just going to make them not want to think outside of the box anymore.

"All the solo people on the forums saying the game is dead.. it's too hard..etc should just go into NM together..."
Why together?! If they’re solo players?

Are you sure about that? Because the rule in the NM is pretty simple: “play with others or bye-bye.” That’s not far from pushing players away from the game… in fact, they’re already doing it. Stop pretending they’re not.

LennaTheRussian · May 3

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see much of a future for this game any more.

You don't see much of a future of the game anymore for you*

Majority of people enjoy what's to come. People love the harder content and being forced to group up. This is not a single player game, not everything needs or should cater to solo players.

I swear next some of you will be demanding zos to add solo trials.

Athory · May 3

LennaTheRussian wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see much of a future for this game any more.

You don't see much of a future of the game anymore for you*

Majority of people enjoy what's to come. People love the harder content and being forced to group up. This is not a single player game, not everything needs or should cater to solo players.

I swear next some of you will be demanding zos to add solo trials.

lol?!

SilverBride · May 3

SANGUARI wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

SANGUARI wrote: »

Why do you play an MMO (massively multiplayer online) if you want to be alone? These posts are starting to get ridiculous.

Being in a group for combat isn't the only way to interact with others in an MMO. I much prefer to do most things solo so I can do them my own way in my own time. But most of the time I am playing "alone" I am chatting with friends, or participating in zone chat, or stopping what I'm doing to help someone asking for World Boss help, or answering questions or requests for help in guild chat, etc.. So playing solo does not mean playing alone. And playing an MMO does not mean constant grouping.

So you can cooperate with people for world bosses, so do it here too?

Do it where, too? If you are referring to the Night Market then no, I won't do it there too because I have no interest in dying all the time for rewards I don't even care about.

I do group for dungeons and an occasional trial and battleground, so I'm not adverse to group content, but it has to be content I enjoy, and I have to be in the mood for it.

This roadmap is almost all group content. Throw us solo players a few more crumbs.

Firstmep · May 3

One piece of remotely challenging content and your takeaway is that zos wants to turn the game into Dark Souls? Really? After a decade of 2 out of 4 updates being solo quest content.
One update that requires grouping. One. Single. Update.

Athory · May 3

If the game is really heading toward this kind of “hardcore content” that pushes players out, then ZOS should force everyone to stick to one character, one build, with no possibility of changing anything.

Seadle · May 3

Athory wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

The only issue I see is the mentality of locking oneself out of content they want to play by refusing to group with others. Being a mainly solo player myself, I understand the reason why one does play solo. Simply refusing to group is childish. There's been multiple posts with suggestions on how solo players can do the content, yet you continue to hold your hands up to yours ears. Is it harder solo than not? Yes. Can it be done? Yes.

Prove it. Make a video and show it. Go play solo, engage in fights, kill a boss, just participate in the event, and prove it with a video. You can do it solo!
And read the topic again, because for me the problem isn’t joining a group. The issue is; I simply refuse to be used by ZOS. I refuse to be turned into “event fodder” just so others can participate.

Think there's a bigger overlying issue of your build/player skill. You can post the former and maybe someone will help you.

LittleLionLeone · May 3

Athory wrote: »

If the game is really heading toward this kind of “hardcore content” that pushes players out, then ZOS should force everyone to stick to one character, one build, with no possibility of changing anything.

Hundreds of hours worth of old content you can still solo, new events that you can still solo, new quests that you can still solo. As someone else said, not every piece of content needs to be solo friendly or brain dead easy.

Also you can solo the night market if you know what you're doing.

LittleLionLeone · May 3

Athory wrote: »

Calling solo‑friendly content "brain dead easy"

LittleLionLeone wrote: »

not every piece of content needs to be solo friendly or brain dead easy.

Notice how I said "or"?

I am a solo player, I know some solo stuff is hard. But if something like the night market was easy then you would be able to solo it a lot more easily.

Night Market is like a step above vet dlc dungeons.

Athory wrote: »

Just two trolls waking up… oh boy. Both still have so much to learn…

Acting like that does you zero favors.

SilverBride · May 3

Firstmep wrote: »

One piece of remotely challenging content and your takeaway is that zos wants to turn the game into Dark Souls? Really? After a decade of 2 out of 4 updates being solo quest content.
One update that requires grouping. One. Single. Update.

That is exactly what it feels like to me because it's not just grouping. It's extremely difficult content. And this took the place of 2 dungeons that always had normal and veteran modes.

And don't forget overland difficulty, too. But at least that is optional.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 3

I can see both sides of the coin on this to some degree. The thing about all MMOs is that you're almost always going to have an easier time by interacting and playing with other people. Can you solo it as an alternative? A lot of it, sure but its not really made to be that way. There were a lot of great suggestions and builds put forth on the forums about helpful builds and other things in Night Market. That really is the true spirit of Eso! We need more of that in the game!

I play all content in the game. People who run trials a lot like myself, and I run them all the time, need something new to break up the monotony from the same old content. Same old systems. There are a lot of gatekeepers in that sort of content and I will never be someone who participates in such behavior. Or condones it. We clear it just the same only without excluding people or making them feel inferior. Or even worse, demanding a resume from them. We are not too good to play Eso with ANYONE.

Night Market isn't explicitly trial content either but its a better way for people to be able to experience group play with various size groups, not just 12. And all levels of players can be included in this where a lot of trials or other things really make it difficult or even impossible for lower cp and other things to participate. The nice thing about groups in the Night Market is that you're not automatically looking at the same 4 supports with the same gear sets and pretty much 8 dps with the same 1 or 2 blender builds everyone is selling in online videos. You can have people in your ranks at 300 cp and they can go into this content. Or people wearing gear that isnt totally suitable for difficult content can succeed if only a couple people in the group do.

You can follow groups around solo but its not much different than walking up to a Mirrimoor Incursion that's already in progress. Can those be soloed? Yes, but you're really going to have to work for it. It wasn't intended to be that way. Even PvP, can you do it solo, sure. If so, it's probably going to be a very long bumpy ride. Dungeons, of course they can be soloed, but its going to require a lot more time and work. Some of them simply can't be soloed because of the mechanics. Zos really has done a nice thing by introducing the new solo dungeons to reach the solo player community. Not really my cup of tea, but I'll still run it anyway and be happy that it exists for people who enjoy it and wanted it. Maelstrom Arena, totally solo. I don't like it so much, but it doesn't stop me from participating in it.

Solo play and content is also a very important part of Eso and I wouldn't want to see it diminished or taken away. At the same time, people who only really do or enjoy group play deserve to have new things like Night Marjet added to the game. I and all of my Guilds are really having a lot of fun for this event! And we are bringing along as many solo players and people who aren't exactly used to group or difficult content as possible along for the adventure. The bulk of the fun for us comes from making this event brighter for them.

I think if a normal mode were added to this type of content it would basically eliminate its intended purpose. It would cease to be challenging group play. All you would see are the big dogs out there alone farming it for furniture plans and that sort of thing. It would just become a ghost town like many of the overland zones.

Seadle · May 3

Athory wrote: »

@Seadle Your comment doesn’t address anything I said. If you think it’s a “skill issue,” you’ll need more than a one‑liner to back that up.

@LittleLionLeone Calling solo‑friendly content "brain dead easy" says more about your attitude toward other players than about the topic itself.

Just two trolls waking up… oh boy. Both still have so much to learn…

Like I said, if you post your build someone will probably help you. So you stop being event fodder.

Athory · May 3

Seadle wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

@Seadle Your comment doesn’t address anything I said. If you think it’s a “skill issue,” you’ll need more than a one‑liner to back that up.

@LittleLionLeone Calling solo‑friendly content "brain dead easy" says more about your attitude toward other players than about the topic itself.

Just two trolls waking up… oh boy. Both still have so much to learn…

Like I said, if you post your build someone will probably help you. So you stop being event fodder.

Like I told you, you still have a lot to learn...

Cominfordatoothbrush · May 3

This is a bit of an absurd question to even pose imo. Obviously not, I mean, look at the rest o f the planned content they've announced. Overland questing, RP rumors/favors, a new overland zone, none of that will be like the night market.

Athory · May 3

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

This is a bit of an absurd question to even pose imo. Obviously not, I mean, look at the rest o f the planned content they've announced. Overland questing, RP rumors/favors, a new overland zone, none of that will be like the night market.

Is it? Really? To be fair, neither me, you, nor any other players should even have a reason to post something like this in The Elder Scrolls Online. After 12 years of ESO, there should be more respect for the content they add to the game, especially the systems that intentionally exclude their own players.

The first "season" system we have in ESO… and what’s the best they could intentionally do? Exclude a lot of their player base from enjoying the first season… oh boy…

Cominfordatoothbrush · May 3

Yes, it is. really

Athory · May 3

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

Yes, it is. really

Well, we have two completely different viewpoints on how ESO should be. I’m thinking about the game, about you, me, and everyone who plays it, because some people like harder content and others like easier content. That’s all good.
You seem to think more in terms of "hardcore players only"… well, I really wish ZoS had that plan too, and I really wish they would answer the question I asked in my first topic: whether they want to exclude solo players from the game forever. Deep inside, I really want to see ZoS telling the truth.

Psyphiman · May 3

Man, I wish people were able to enjoy this event as much as I am.

Cominfordatoothbrush · May 3

You're not thinking about how some people like harder or easier content. Because you're talking about how you think ESO from here on out will only be NM-level difficulty content (this is the assumption I'm calling absurd) and bemoaning how not everything in the game is tailor made for you, while I listed off several upcoming cool pieces of content that will not be like that. I think it's great that they're providing new things to do that appeal to different audiences and that they're doing the things I listed demonstrates that they are obviously not excluding overland solo players from the future of the game.

SilverBride · May 3

Psyphiman wrote: »

Man, I wish people were able to enjoy this event as much as I am.

I wish we were, too.

Psyphiman · May 3

SilverBride wrote: »

Psyphiman wrote: »

Man, I wish people were able to enjoy this event as much as I am.

I wish we were, too.

You could. Shrug.

Athory · May 3

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

You're not thinking about how some people like harder or easier content. Because you're talking about how you think ESO from here on out will only be NM-level difficulty content (this is the assumption I'm calling absurd) and bemoaning how not everything in the game is tailor made for you, while I listed off several upcoming cool pieces of content that will not be like that. I think it's great that they're providing new things to do that appeal to different audiences and that they're doing the things I listed demonstrates that they are obviously not excluding overland solo players from the future of the game.

Why are you distorting everything?

I agree with harder content in-game; I said that in my previous posts.
I accept when you say, "not all content is made for me." All good.
I also agree that "it’s great that they’re providing new things to do that appeal to different audiences."

So far, we agree on everything. Yes?

But why exclude players from playing solo in the [snip] market? Why does ZOS treat them as event feeders?

Cominfordatoothbrush · May 3

If your bullet points are your opinion, then I suppose we're on agreement on those, but then you flip to asking why "exclude" solo players. If you think it's great that there can be content that's group focus or that is or isn't made for players at a high skill level, what's the issue here? I'd also argue that NM doesn't exclude solo players at all, even if they're playing as a solo. If those players are having trouble soling NM, there are plenty of people who enjoy doing things like vet arenas, soloing dlc dungeons, and pushing IA, that would be willing to help out with build advice. But as far as I've seen many attempts to give such advice or ask what kinds of builds people are running if they're having trouble is very often dismissed or ridiculed.

Not really an important point here, but I'm just curious - why do you call it "snip" market?