Night Market is a ticket to frustration and lack of basic respect to usual players

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

@LadyGP

Listen to legit feedback... cancel out the noise.. and let the devs cook.

So what, exactly, is “legit feedback”? One that agrees with you?

There is a long thread of players giving detailed and reasoned explanations as to why they dislike the NM as it is.

Whilst I am happy for you that you enjoy this content, it appears that quite a significant number do not.

tomofhyrule · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

No, it shouldn't. There isn't a single type of player that everything should be geared towards.

90% of the game is for solo players. It's okay for some things to be geared towards other players.

Contrary to some sentiment I've seen on here, this isn't the "flagship content of the year" either as that doesn't exist anymore. Each season will have a new thing. I can guarantee most seasons will be tooled towards solo players. It's okay for there to be something tooled towards non-solo players.

There has to be something for everyone and the Night Market is absolutely not for the typical ESO player. So what do we get?

If that were the case, do you agree with changing one of the two solo quests we har coming this summer to be enforced grouping? After all, “something for everyone” would mean then each patch should put in solo content and group content and PvP content.

If this isn't the "flagship content of the year" then what is? Because this is all I've heard about.

There is no “flagship content of the year” anymore. They moved away from that concept specifically.

Every Season will have its thing. Season Zero’s big thing is the Night Market. Season One this summer has two solo questlines and I think will end with the High Seas event, which we know little about, but it seems to be like the Writing Fortress. Season Two will then get a trial, Dungeons which are exclusively solo content, and a return of the Night Market.

coop500 · April 30

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

Yes, this is a core aspect that people seem to be missing. The Night Market needs a normal mode, especially if it's gonna be a timed grindfest with basegame overland gear as your rewards lol.

Syldras · April 30

I personally don't think every content needs to appeal to everyone. I don't to some types of ESO content because I'm not interested in that particular playstyle, and that's fine. Other people enjoy them.

What I had been wondering yesterday was if it hadn't been possible to make the Night Market some kind of mixed zone, with tasks for different playstyles? Not because I think it needs to be like that - but because there probably would have been less complaints if there had been a bit for everyone. It's a rather big zone, after all.

When I played the Market yesterday evening, I had originally hoped to be able to just tag along with some randos - sadly, I came across no one (well, except for 2 people standing around on those respawn points doing nothing). Chat was dead as well - I asked for a group, got no answer.

But what I realized was that it's possible to get around quite well just by being tactical, using potions and sneaking. Sadly, most quests inside the combat areas drop only absolutely useless rewards. But it did made me think: Basically it's possible to do solo tasks in that zone. Sneaky spy stuff. They could have built upon that in quest design, so you could choose if you go for boss-fight-focused group quests, or for stealth solo quests, and reward both reasonably (and also let those fragments for the house rooms drop from all activities equally). They could even have built faction story and lore around that. Let's say: One faction of brutes go for hard boss fights, one is about solving mysteries and puzzle-focused, and another one is for stealth/spy/sabotage stuff. With the option to join several, or switch between them, of course. Right now, that faction design doesn't feel meaningful anyway.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

coop500 wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

Yes, this is a core aspect that people seem to be missing. The Night Market needs a normal mode, especially if it's gonna be a timed grindfest with basegame overland gear as your rewards lol.

Again, the night market IS a normal mode. Its the same difficulty level as a normal trial. That means you can PUG it. That's the point. It's designed for a group. This was communicated quite a bit during the lead up to NM. This is balanced like a normal trial; accessible to everyone IF you're grouped.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

Yes, this is a core aspect that people seem to be missing. The Night Market needs a normal mode, especially if it's gonna be a timed grindfest with basegame overland gear as your rewards lol.

Again, the night market IS a normal mode. Its the same difficulty level as a normal trial. That means you can PUG it. That's the point. It's designed for a group. This was communicated quite a bit during the lead up to NM. This is balanced like a normal trial; accessible to everyone IF you're grouped.

Not everyone belongs to a guild where they can organise 12 people from all over the world to come together at the same time to do this for a couple of hours. It’s hard enough getting prog groups to run regularly. Not everyone can devote every second of their life to this game.

And I disagree that it is normal trial level difficulty; some trash is, but some definitely are not and can one-shot you in a way I’ve never experienced in normal trials.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

Yes, this is a core aspect that people seem to be missing. The Night Market needs a normal mode, especially if it's gonna be a timed grindfest with basegame overland gear as your rewards lol.

Again, the night market IS a normal mode. Its the same difficulty level as a normal trial. That means you can PUG it. That's the point. It's designed for a group. This was communicated quite a bit during the lead up to NM. This is balanced like a normal trial; accessible to everyone IF you're grouped.

Not everyone belongs to a guild where they can organise 12 people from all over the world to come together at the same time to do this for a couple of hours. It’s hard enough getting prog groups to run regularly. Not everyone can devote every second of their life to this game.

And I disagree that it is normal trial level difficulty; some trash is, but some definitely are not and can one-shot you in a way I’ve never experienced in normal trials.

You don't need a guild. There's a group finder in the group menu with a specific section for the Night Market. I was able to PUG everything yesterday on a PvP build using the group finder.

And yes, it IS on par with a normal trial. Normal Trial bosses and elite mobs will one shot the DPS players, just like in the Night Market. The larger trash mobs can one shot you, the small ones can't.

Jammy420 · April 30

Jammy420 · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The comment of yours that I replied to did not say something for everyone; it said everything for someone. You stated that everything should be geared towards solo players. That is not true.

I never said everything should be geared towards solo players ONLY. But everything should have something for everyone and solo players were left completely out of this one.

So everything should be catered to everyone. Overland content has been blindingly easy for years, and did not interest me at all, so by your definition it is not catering to everyone. And that is fine, there is other content for me. Same here. You need to realise that NOT ALL content is geared toward you.

SilverBride · April 30

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and Dragons, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

Jammy420 · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

It still does not compare to solo content, not even remotely. I am playing from scratch, from the vanilla starter zones, I am doing - everything - again, and let me tell you, what you just described cannot even hold a candle to just how much solo content there is. So again, get a grip.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and Dragons, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

I can guarantee you there are far more hours of questing content in ESO than dungeons/trials/group content.

There's probably more hours of BASE GAME quest content than all the group content released to date.

SilverBride · April 30

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and Dragons, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

I can guarantee you there are far more hours of questing content in ESO than dungeons/trials/group content.

There's probably more hours of BASE GAME quest content than all the group content released to date.

This isn't about hours of content. It's about the difficulty of the content that a lot of players simply can't do.

And EVERY player can do the base game quests and story content. But every player CAN'T do these other things I mentioned.

Jammy420 · April 30

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and Dragons, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

I can guarantee you there are far more hours of questing content in ESO than dungeons/trials/group content.

There's probably more hours of BASE GAME quest content than all the group content released to date.

This isn't about hours of content. It's about the difficulty of the content that a lot of players simply can't do.

And EVERY player can do the base game quests and story content. But every player CAN'T do these other things I mentioned.

SilverBride · April 30

Jammy420 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

99 percent of content in this game is catered to you. Get a grip.

Add up every dungeon, trial, and arena, and all the World Bosses from the past few years with their multiple immune phases, and Public Dungeon Bosses with the same, and Harrowstorms, and Vents, and Dragons, and West Weald World Events... none of which are catered to the casual solo player... and see who has more content catered to them.

I can guarantee you there are far more hours of questing content in ESO than dungeons/trials/group content.

There's probably more hours of BASE GAME quest content than all the group content released to date.

This isn't about hours of content. It's about the difficulty of the content that a lot of players simply can't do.

And EVERY player can do the base game quests and story content. But every player CAN'T do these other things I mentioned.

That does not show that 99 percent of content in this game is catered to solo players, which is what I was responding to.

TairenSoul · April 30

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them. To make a Golden Pursuit solely for one group isn't right. This can all be fixed by making the NM normal and vet. Solo people can try normal if they want, while vet players can hard-core all they want! No one is saying to remove it totally! If zos wants NM for vet only, well ok. At least make the Golden Pursuits fair for anyone!

JemadarofCaerSalis · April 30

AScarlato wrote: »

I'm usually a solo player and was skeptical of this content, but I gave it a try - just typed in zone chat to join a group and it was fun. Really energizing and a breath of fresh air with the difficulty over 1-shotting bosses for story quests. I supposes the part of me that enjoys more challenging cooperative gameplay in MMOs is not entirely behind me, especially on a healer.

I don't know how long this will keep people's interest but I'm going to try again this weekend.

If you aren't even willing to press "x" in zone chat to join a party and follow teams around, I don't really know what to say. Our group was inviting anyone who wanted to join.

The thing is, I did that. I asked in chat if there were any groups. I saw other people post LFG and asking about groups.

No answer. Half of the time I tried it, there was no one in chat looking for groups. I even saw someone type X in chat, and then a bit later ask if there were any groups, so apparently there wasn't any there with the auto group mod.

One of the times I managed to find a group, I had just died and suddenly noticed I was getting credit for kills, so I looked down and there was a group.

The second time I asked if anyone was there, because I didn't see anyone from the resurrection point, someone actually answered! Only one person. However, fortunately either a lot of people joined the instance after that, or they were just lurking, because when the person who answered said 'come to the abomination' and I went there, there were a lot of players milling around, and so I managed to follow them and get some kills in (no quests done but did pick up another quest)

But, that was still two times out of 4 that I managed to find someone to group with, and I am lucky enough to be able to get online at pretty much any time. So, I could try it four different times yesterday.

Not everyone can. If they can only get on during non-peak times, then they are just out of luck. If no one is looking for a group, then they can't group up. If no one is in those instances, then they can't group up.

I know there is the group finder, but again, if there aren't any groups, or the groups there try it and then disband after they wipe (which I have heard happening), then again, there aren't any groups to play join.

Because, yeah, if there is a group to help, then it can be fun. But, the number of people I have seen in the district I went to doesn't give me a lot of hope that in say a week, there are going to be enough people who can actually do the content, to group up with (once the people who want the rewards and can do the content get it, they are likely to go back to whatever else they want to do, leaving even fewer people there)

illutian · April 30

For those saying ZOS should be allowed to design group-only content. Okay, that's fine. But then they cannot make it a Golden Pursuit.

GP was expressly designed for the individual (aka solo) player. Not once has it required you to group to fill out. There's been 'do group content' tasks in it. But they were note required to fill out the overall Pursuit bar.

...so far all but 1 of the Pursuits is a solo task. And only then if you have Shadowy Disguise; because you will die to most of the mob packs.

BardokRedSnow · April 30

I think questers and the like have been too used to content being catered to them for the vast majority of this game's lifecycle. Fact is the game's population has been dwindling and making content just for very very casual players is not sustaining enough for the game to go on another ten years, certainly not 20.

MMOs are a gamer's game, and most gamers want the content to be at least somewhat engaging beyond just listening to dialogue and chatting with people.

Keep in mind, I enjoy questing and I'm a big lore nut, been playing this series since I was a kid in middleschool. Yet even so the most annoying thing for me was always how easy and brainless the games could be sometimes, having to create and make your own challenges to stay entertained. That will be fine for a singleplayer game for a time, but that won't be enough for an MMO.

Bguk · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them. To make a Golden Pursuit solely for one group isn't right. This can all be fixed by making the NM normal and vet. Solo people can try normal if they want, while vet players can hard-core all they want! No one is saying to remove it totally! If zos wants NM for vet only, well ok. At least make the Golden Pursuits fair for anyone!

People understand there are solo and group players.

What some solo players posting on this forum don't get is solo players have the same opportunities to play all content that group players do. You say, "Group players can do both." Change it to all players and it's a correct statement. There is nothing stopping a solo player from using the same mechanics a group player uses to play all content besides their desire or want to do so.

EDIT: Grammar?

o_Primate_o · April 30

illutian wrote: »

For those saying ZOS should be allowed to design group-only content. Okay, that's fine. But then they cannot make it a Golden Pursuit.

GP was expressly designed for the individual (aka solo) player. Not once has it required you to group to fill out. There's been 'do group content' tasks in it. But they were note required to fill out the overall Pursuit bar.

...so far all but 1 of the Pursuits is a solo task. And only then if you have Shadowy Disguise; because you will die to most of the mob packs.

um...
guilds are doing guild runs
typing lfg in zone might not work, true. use group finder or start your own in gf. many groups in gf are for specific dailies so be prepared for that.
i've zerg surfed and also joined using group finder and find that much of the "hard" content (particularly skirmishes) in NM is due to people not learning the mechanics (too many players attacking gold-bar bosses for one). i try to help out in local chat. When i'm in a 12-man guild group it goes so easy. pugs make it much harder than necessary. I'll try to log in on a tank more often to help y'all on xbox na.

trials are for groups. dungeons are for groups. why can't we have just one zone for groups? Look what the devs did to crag - it's just ***-hum another overland base game zone now.

TairenSoul · April 30

Bguk wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them. To make a Golden Pursuit solely for one group isn't right. This can all be fixed by making the NM normal and vet. Solo people can try normal if they want, while vet players can hard-core all they want! No one is saying to remove it totally! If zos wants NM for vet only, well ok. At least make the Golden Pursuits fair for anyone!

People understand there are solo and group players.

What some solo players posting on this forum don't get is solo players have the same opportunities to play all content that group players do. You say, "Group players can do both." Change it to all players and it's a correct statement. There is nothing stopping a solo player from using the same mechanics a group player uses to play all content besides their desire or want to do so.

EDIT: Grammar?

A solo player can successfully play solo content. A solo player cannot successfully play group vet content by them self. Hence, the word solo. Group vet players can success play solo content and vet content. Not sure what's tripping you up.

Bguk · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them. To make a Golden Pursuit solely for one group isn't right. This can all be fixed by making the NM normal and vet. Solo people can try normal if they want, while vet players can hard-core all they want! No one is saying to remove it totally! If zos wants NM for vet only, well ok. At least make the Golden Pursuits fair for anyone!

People understand there are solo and group players.

What some solo players posting on this forum don't get is solo players have the same opportunities to play all content that group players do. You say, "Group players can do both." Change it to all players and it's a correct statement. There is nothing stopping a solo player from using the same mechanics a group player uses to play all content besides their desire or want to do so.

EDIT: Grammar?

A solo player can successfully play solo content. A solo player cannot successfully play group vet content by them self. Hence, the word solo. Group vet players can play solo content and vet content. Not sure what's tripping you up.

That a solo player will strictly, only, will not ever, play group content that is part of a game they're playing. This is a mindset that people want to get trapped in. This game offers many different types of content for many different types of players. I consider myself a solo player, yet I barely touch housing because I don't find it enjoyable. I would rather ESO focus on other things. It's ok they don't because I know in an MMO I am not the only player. Yet tools are there, for all types of players, to play any content they want. Maybe not the way they want (which people are stuck on that as well, another thread perhaps lol), yet the tools are there for all players.

I saw on another thread you posted you were disappointed in the marketing, saying you wish they we clearer (paraphrasing so please correct me if wrong), and that's ok. It's when people are demanding immediate changes when they are locked out of content that it's a problem. The only one locking themselves out of content is themselves. I find it, I can't really find the word, sad I guess people have that mindset.

Blood_again · April 30

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

And WHY, ZOS, you create another stuff EXCLUSIVELY FOR GROUPS? Do you despise solo players that much???

There are two solo story quests coming with the next Season.

The Night Market is taking the place of what is normally Dungeons this year. That's it. They took away something for groups and gave instead something for zergs. But solo players are still getting their story quests with the summer update like always.

But Dungeons have numerous difficulty modes.
The Night Market does not.

You switch difficulty of the Night Market with changing the number and the exp level of your group mates

Ankael07 · April 30

You throw a bone to the starving dog and ESO players will accuse you of hating the overfed cat

guarstompemoji · April 30

Mayrael wrote: »

For years, we've been getting easier and easier content that doesn't require anything from the player — it just holds your hand with "click here to claim your reward". Most events were simply about showing up.

Finally, after all these years, we've gotten something interesting, engaging, and highly social. For me, this is a wonderful breath of fresh air. I'm not saying every event should be like this, but it's great that there's AT LEAST ONE! Congratulations ZOS, awesome job!

Quoting this for truth.

Guys. There's plenty of upcoming content that is aimed at solo exploration and solo puzzle solving. There's an entire solo zone that u unlock via solo mode, easy questing.

That's awesome! I'll be bored out of my skull, but I'm incredibly happy it's on the agenda bc I have friends who will like it.

The cursing and behavior towards folks who enjoy group content is beneath you. Don't do it.

guarstompemoji · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them. To make a Golden Pursuit solely for one group isn't right. This can all be fixed by making the NM normal and vet. Solo people can try normal if they want, while vet players can hard-core all they want! No one is saying to remove it totally! If zos wants NM for vet only, well ok. At least make the Golden Pursuits fair for anyone!

This...isn't quite true. W the upcoming solo content...it just isn't group content. It won't be challenging by its design. I will be bored out of my skull.

But.

I'm incredibly happy folks who enjoy said content will like it.

I also expect HPs to be designed arnd these events, just like PvP ones. Not everything has to me about me, myself, and I in a multiplayer game. Sometimes it's about my friends as well.

There just has to be enough food at the table. I wish you the best during your solo questing content and am superglad for it. I might do some of it, but will likely be w other friends in game enjoying different parts of it.

ZOS is trying things and guilds are so active rn I don't even. I'm excited.

TairenSoul · April 30

I will be bored out of my skull.

Like solo players are atm. We all have our time in the sun, it seems! Enjoy!

anadandy · April 30

Oops wrong thread

tomofhyrule · April 30

TairenSoul wrote: »

Why can't people understand this? There are two kinds of players here. Solo and Group. Solo players only do Solo. One type of play. Group players can do both. Two for them.

This is factually incorrect.

Nobody -NOBODY - is physically prevented from grouping in this game. Nobody.
Every player is able to open group finder, or follow a zerg, or join a guild.

The solo players choose to not do group content. For any number of reasons, sure, but I can promise that the game is not preventing you from grouping.

When I started playing ESO, I was a Skyrim convert and I was scared away for ages because “oh no, scary MMO with other people that I don’t have to deal with in ‘real’ Elder Scrolls games!”
But I joined anyway. And then I got into the game. And then I saw that I needed a reward from group content (the Beast personality specifically). The only way for me to get that was to find a guild and group up… so I bit the bullet and I did. And I tried. And I got my personality, which my werewolf character still uses. And now… well, I still run with those same people.
And all of the evil, toxic, judgy, horrible people who fill MMOs? Well, they weren’t evil, toxic, judgy, or horrible. Sure, there’s bad eggs in every bunch, but that’s what other people and the ignore list is for. And they helped me get better at the game and enjoy it more than I did before.

The point is that not every part of the game is for everyone. If something is offered as a reward for the playstyle you don’t like, your choice is to forgo the reward or suck it up and do something you don’t normally like. I’m already considering that for next patch with the Veterancy system, since the Shield Bash skill style I need is at Veterancy 100, so I’m gonna have to force myself to PvP to get it.

The devs weren’t lying that you can go into the Night Market solo - you totally can. It may not be easy to get bosses down, but you can do the district quests by avoiding or fighting the trash mobs, but you have to be good to do so. I’d say if you can get through vet Maelstrom or Vateshran, you should be able to go solo in the districts to get through trash. But it is a lot more fun - and safer - in groups, particularly those with a competent tank.