Armory Assistant in Leaderboard Events

DestroyerPewnack · April 26

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

heimdall14_9 · April 26

dont forget theres ADD-ONS that do MORE and can be used ANYWHERE

HatchetHaro · April 26

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

The Armory Assistant is usable in the lobby of any scored instance before it starts.

If you're asking about why it's disabled while the instance is ongoing, it's because the ability to respec subclasses, morphs, and attributes mid-run trivializes the choices players have to make when bringing their character into the trial.

There's a thread about that when the free respecs was first announced on-stream.

virtus753 · April 26

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

To clarify, you cannot do those things on the fly in leaderboard content (except IA).

It’s not that you can do it manually but the Armory is excluded. It’s that respeccing via the new UI feature is excluded like the Armory is.

DestroyerPewnack · April 26

virtus753 wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

To clarify, you cannot do those things on the fly in leaderboard content (except IA).

It’s not that you can do it manually but the Armory is excluded. It’s that respeccing via the new UI feature is excluded like the Armory is.

I just tested this in vHoF, and you are correct. Respeccing mid-run doesn't work, except in IA. I wonder why that is.
Even stranger still, you can use the armory assistant in the lobby of vet trials, but you can't use it in the lobby of IA.
So I guess either IA should be treated the same as vet trials, or the armory assistant restriction should be removed completely from IA.

DestroyerPewnack · April 26

HatchetHaro wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

The Armory Assistant is usable in the lobby of any scored instance before it starts.

If you're asking about why it's disabled while the instance is ongoing, it's because the ability to respec subclasses, morphs, and attributes mid-run trivializes the choices players have to make when bringing their character into the trial.

There's a thread about that when the free respecs was first announced on-stream.

Would it, though? Won't people just use it to have specific setups for specific situations? For example, optimized builds for boss phase versus trash phase in vet trials, or optimized builds for the first few arcs in IA versus the later arcs? I think it would allow for more variety, and it would give players more things they can work towards.

Renato90085 · April 26

it will add more unnecessary power creep again
like if today my core try doing other SBS,we need choose someone(3-4 run aoe skill line,because reef hm need cleave
but if we can chance anything
it mean you can at aoe boss run full cleave,and at parse boss run 8 runeblade burn boss
next trail hm have 300m health,we don't give them other reason to give content more hard

HatchetHaro · April 26

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

The Armory Assistant is usable in the lobby of any scored instance before it starts.

If you're asking about why it's disabled while the instance is ongoing, it's because the ability to respec subclasses, morphs, and attributes mid-run trivializes the choices players have to make when bringing their character into the trial.

There's a thread about that when the free respecs was first announced on-stream.

Would it, though? Won't people just use it to have specific setups for specific situations? For example, optimized builds for boss phase versus trash phase in vet trials, or optimized builds for the first few arcs in IA versus the later arcs? I think it would allow for more variety, and it would give players more things they can work towards.

So it's not about variety; it's about enforcing meaningful choices when it comes to group comps. With the possibility of mid-run respecs, groups would place much less emphasis on picking and choosing classes for specific challenges within the trial.

Besides, the very nature of scored content itself means that players will naturally gravitate towards the most optimal build for each boss, and so with mid-run respecs, you'd actually see builds being more homogenized across players for each boss.

Gabriel_H · April 26

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Would it, though? Won't people just use it to have specific setups for specific situations? For example, optimized builds for boss phase versus trash phase in vet trials, or optimized builds for the first few arcs in IA versus the later arcs? I think it would allow for more variety, and it would give players more things they can work towards.

It would lead to greater homoginisation at end game rather then less. Much like how (unbalanced) subclassing led to less builds being used at end game rather than more.

Each trial should have different mechanics that require different things. Personally, I believe all gear and skills should be locked once you start a trial (on veteran) and that the trial's mechanics should account for that. Overriding the lock should deny achievements and a score penalty.

ESO trials usually do keep to a mechanical theme for the most part, but there are notable exceptions particularly at the HM stage. 2nd Boss in OC is very overworked for example, it requires very specific sets, builds and skills and limits avaialable choices the player can make on how they spec - it's bad design imo. Whereas the 1st boss in OC is a glorious masterpiece of a boss fight, multiple setups work well, mutiple strategies work well.

Varana · April 26

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Won't people just use it to have specific setups for specific situations? For example, optimized builds for boss phase versus trash phase in vet trials...

You need to think even more specific: Optimised builds for each boss separately, and for larger add packs - people do this with gear and skills already, and that would add respeccing to the list of stuff to optimise for each encounter.
You don't decide these things on your own. The raid lead, or the team, works out between them what each player should wear and do. There may be some leeway but not a lot.

Cobble123 · April 26

Are you going to donate enough Crowns to buy each and every player an assistant? Or are you just suggesting ‘pay to win’.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 26

Add ons should be prohibited in Leaderboard runs

HatchetHaro · April 26

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Add ons should be prohibited in Leaderboard runs

That is a wild take. You wanna explain why you think addons should be prohibited?

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 27

If you cant play the game without combat alerts or anything else, you shouldn't be on a leaderboard.
Until very recently console didn't have them. And the game was a lot better without them too btw. And the quality of players was a lot better without them.

heimdall14_9 · April 27

HatchetHaro wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Add ons should be prohibited in Leaderboard runs

That is a wild take. You wanna explain why you think addons should be prohibited?

i can tell you why WIZARDS WARDROBE / and any other gear swapping / skill changing / cp changing add-on should be removed from vets ..... when talking about vet SPEED plays a big part in SCORING having add-ons that do all the changes SAVES TIME making for an advantage you can ONLY get by running a ADD-ON something thats AGAINST the ToS, then to top it off these add-ons do these changes AUTOMATICALLY with-out the need to open an menu , call out an assistant, or to even touch some kind of IN-PUT key for them to work

heimdall14_9 · April 27

HatchetHaro wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

The Armory Assistant is usable in the lobby of any scored instance before it starts.

If you're asking about why it's disabled while the instance is ongoing, it's because the ability to respec subclasses, morphs, and attributes mid-run trivializes the choices players have to make when bringing their character into the trial.

There's a thread about that when the free respecs was first announced on-stream.

the main fear that UI respec made was that a add-on would be able to use its coding to make all the same changes making the add-on more MANDATORY then it already is for end game raids
and i bet you can guess what add-on that was , yep WIZARDS WARDROBE , with its auto function players could then every easley spec any way theyd like all without having to hit a key in under 2500ms lol

heimdall14_9 · April 27

Cobble123 wrote: »

Are you going to donate enough Crowns to buy each and every player an assistant? Or are you just suggesting ‘pay to win’.

would you call add-ons that breaks the rules put forth on the armory assistant , UI respec , cheating to win ?????? its not pay to win if they use it as an event item or achievement along with the change right ?????? be a good way to bring back players that left last update over the whole UI RESPEC having to be revamped and LOCKED due to the power a ADD-ON has within the game already that end-game raid players didnt want to become more out of control i respect that they stopped it but was and still am very let down that they didnt fight the REALL issue that is ADD-ONS having more say than the development team

HatchetHaro · April 29

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Add ons should be prohibited in Leaderboard runs

That is a wild take. You wanna explain why you think addons should be prohibited?

i can tell you why WIZARDS WARDROBE / and any other gear swapping / skill changing / cp changing add-on should be removed from vets ..... when talking about vet SPEED plays a big part in SCORING having add-ons that do all the changes SAVES TIME making for an advantage you can ONLY get by running a ADD-ON something thats AGAINST the ToS, then to top it off these add-ons do these changes AUTOMATICALLY with-out the need to open an menu , call out an assistant, or to even touch some kind of IN-PUT key for them to work

So speed may affect scoring, yes, but the whole point of a trial is combat encounters, not menu-switching. That's where every trial's core gameplay loop lies: coordinating roles, learning mechanics, and maintaining uptimes. A trial's challenge is the 12-man coordination and mechanical execution, not how fast someone can click through their inventory. If "playing the UI" were an intended skill-check, ZOS wouldn't have given us the Armory System in the first place. Gear-swapping addons are simply solving a problem with menu friction, not player skill.

Besides, addons and their functionality is specifically allowed via their API, and more importantly, their Add-on Terms. If an addon is using the API provided by the game, then it is by definition not against the ToS. If it truly was against ToS, ZOS would have shut down any and all gear-swapping addons long ago, but the fact that they have been around for over a decade without any action being taken against any of them means that ZOS is allowing that functionality. It is important to distinguish between API functionality and actual combat automation here, because you are conflating one for the other.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

Now that we can respec our skills, subclass lines and attributes on the fly, and since we've always been able to swap gear in the middle of leaderboard events, what reason is there for disabling the use of the armory assistant in these events?

The Armory Assistant is usable in the lobby of any scored instance before it starts.

If you're asking about why it's disabled while the instance is ongoing, it's because the ability to respec subclasses, morphs, and attributes mid-run trivializes the choices players have to make when bringing their character into the trial.

There's a thread about that when the free respecs was first announced on-stream.

the main fear that UI respec made was that a add-on would be able to use its coding to make all the same changes making the add-on more MANDATORY then it already is for end game raids
and i bet you can guess what add-on that was , yep WIZARDS WARDROBE , with its auto function players could then every easley spec any way theyd like all without having to hit a key in under 2500ms lol

That fear claim is just simply untrue. The whole thing with UI respecs in scored instances being so quickly struck down was because it would trivialize and undermine any meaningful choices players would normally make in preparation of a trial. It's about ensuring that a group can't just flip their entire team composition between every boss. Addon developers creating tools to make that even faster still wouldn't change that core issue.

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Cobble123 wrote: »

Are you going to donate enough Crowns to buy each and every player an assistant? Or are you just suggesting ‘pay to win’.

would you call add-ons that breaks the rules put forth on the armory assistant , UI respec , cheating to win ?????? its not pay to win if they use it as an event item or achievement along with the change right ?????? be a good way to bring back players that left last update over the whole UI RESPEC having to be revamped and LOCKED due to the power a ADD-ON has within the game already that end-game raid players didnt want to become more out of control i respect that they stopped it but was and still am very let down that they didnt fight the REALL issue that is ADD-ONS having more say than the development team

If an addon actually breaks the rules, then sure, it's "cheating to win". But your post only just assumes rule-breaking without proving anything. The burden is on you to identify the specific prohibited action.

"Addons having more say than the development team" is a perception argument. Again, ZOS defines what's permitted in addon functionality via access to ESO API, and addons can only work within that framework. It's not cheating to use the tools available for quality-of-life improvements and combat alerts; if it was, ZOS would have nipped that in the bud long ago by simply switching off those API functions to addons.

As I said, UI respecs being restricted in scored instances is entirely about how it inherently breaks the game balance in terms of group comps and preparation, not about how it would instantly get "abused" by addons.

Look, at the end of the day, if your main gripe with addons is that people are spending less time looking at their inventory and more time actually playing the game, then your issue isn't with "cheating"; it's with modern game design.

Bguk · April 29

@HatchetHaro This is a thread about the whole addons thing the guy is talking about, if you're interested.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689126/the-automation-crisis-why-none-ui-add-ons-on-console-violate-official-policy/p1

zaria · April 29

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

dont forget theres ADD-ONS that do MORE and can be used ANYWHERE

Addons can do less as in not change the stats, swap subclasses or redistribute CP.
Benefit is that they can be hot keyed and used as long as not in combat.