SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE

xylena · April 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

[snip]

So... can you 1vX on Vengeance?

I can.
[edited to remove quote]

BardokRedSnow · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

[snip]

So... can you 1vX on Vengeance?

I can.

Neat

I won’t find out because I’m not playing it further.
[edited to remove quote]

BardokRedSnow · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

You, unlike Gizit used to be better than me I can acknowledge that, which is why its painful seeing some of the things you've said here, I dont get how you went from 1vXing to preferring to zerg, honestly.

It is convenient for me that my opponents are unable to accurately assess my skill level.

But to answer your question, a lot of 1vX is just bullying noobs that don't stand a chance, you don't need to run meta or even be that good to 1vX in build PvP. However this changes on Vengeance where you actually need to outplay your opponents 1vX, not just outbuild them to where they mathematically can't hurt you. Can you 1vX on Vengeance, Bardok?

Zerging is only one part of the greater large scale challenge in leading a faction to win a 60v60 battle, and once upon a time, the challenge of leading a faction to campaign victory, when the server was alive and players cared about that. When the campaign is full and people play to win it, lopsided PvDoor has serious risk for the map.

I missed this response. As I said I’m not gonna find out, I loathe and despise everything about the game mode. I wouldn’t take any pride in it because what I enjoy in this game is theorycrafting and developing a playstyle around the builds I make.

Even if I played vengeance more, it is not at all interesting to me. Would be like asking me if I can parse 170k, I don’t know, if I dedicated the time to it probably, but I don’t care to find out.

I’m glad you found a new niche, it is what it is.

lostineternity · April 27

vengeance is brainless zerg against brainless zerg
which alliance zerg is bigger (usually red) that alliance wins

perfect game mode for zos target audience

olsborg · April 27

Its been very, very active on PC EU. And very fun, no lagg , no stupid meta.

BXR_Lonestar · April 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Isn't one bar equal to 100 players in vengeance?

That's probable, and I don't even know if on console servers we have that many PvPers in general XD

I am no PvP guy, so I have no word in this, but I enjoyed first Vengeance test when players actually participated. Never been able to participate again because it feels like there's a boycot from players and it's empty.

Can't speak to other servers but I saw in zone chat a few times people PvPers trying to get others on the servers not to play Vengeance the last time around. No idea if that boycott is still a thing this time around. I haven't seen anyone talking about it in a good or bad way. I legit plain forgot it was happening and didn't even know it had already started.

My main guilds are PVP guilds. There's no formal boycott. We legitimately gave it a try and don't like it.

Here is the thing about vengeance: IF you can guarantee that 900+ players are going to show up everynight; IF you can guarantee there will be multiple battles involving 200+ players from all factions lasting over several hours; and IF you can have these exciting, large-scale epic back-and-forth battles, then Vengeance would be worthwhile. But they can't make such a guarantee. We haven't seen fights like that since the first Vengeance.

Any fights outside of those massive combined-arms fights are ultimately boring, frustrating, and not engaging, and are dictated pretty much only by numbers - and RARELY anything else.

So when we pop in there as a guild to check out what is going on with vengeance, and we struggle to find any large-scale fights, we leave. We find the playstyle boring and not engaging, and not worth our time. That's not a formal boycott, that's just us not liking the way the mode plays.

Again: Vengeance with massive population and massive battles makes you realize you give up everything from ordinary cyrodil in order to have the opportunity to have such massive battles. But the mode cannot be sustained WITHOUT those massive battles. You give up too much, and without the massive battles, you don't get enough back in return.

robwolf666 · April 27

🤨 I like it just fine, more than "normal" Cyrodiil anyway.

xylena · April 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I won’t find out because

Because you have not developed the skill to 1vX without the luxury of outbuilding your opponent. Address this weakness, and your opinion of Vengeance may change.

BardokRedSnow · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I won’t find out because

Because you have not developed the skill to 1vX without the luxury of outbuilding your opponent. Address this weakness, and your opinion of Vengeance may change.

You can call it whatever you like, say I suck without procs, say I’m trash, etc. I really, really just don’t care lol. Vengeance puts me to sleep, I don’t like it, don’t care about it, I roll my eyes every time I see “vengeance IS coming”, and when people talk about their “skilled” gameplay in it.

No amount of calling out or so on is gonna get me to participate, I didn’t invest over a decade of my spare time to understanding how to build and play to have the game be gutted for me just because Zos doesn’t know how to nerf lag causing ballgroups.

robwolf666 · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I won’t find out because

Because you have not developed the skill to 1vX without the luxury of outbuilding your opponent. Address this weakness, and your opinion of Vengeance may change.

Yup... I've always thought Cyro was more about powerful builds and one-hits rather than actual skill in fighting. (Not so much large scale battles, that's just chaos and boring, more the 1v1 type fights)

...And, jumping around like the floor was lava... how is that a real fighting tactic?

BardokRedSnow · April 27

robwolf666 wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I won’t find out because

Because you have not developed the skill to 1vX without the luxury of outbuilding your opponent. Address this weakness, and your opinion of Vengeance may change.

Yup... I've always thought Cyro was more about powerful builds and one-hits rather than actual skill in fighting. (Not so much large scale battles, that's just chaos and boring, more the 1v1 type fights)

...And, jumping around like the floor was lava... how is that a real fighting tactic?

Evading and not making yourself an easy target is a pretty common fighting tactic, as is line of sight, and a big one many in Cyrodiil don’t know how to do, block lol.

That people say stuff like this just shows it’s more than building and shows vengeance enjoyers really just want to Zerg, which hey to each their own

xylena · April 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

You can call it whatever you like

It's one skill out of many. But it's one skill that could unlock your hidden potential and drastically rasie your power level, and thus change your opinion towards the proportionate impact of the respective build systems, with regard to one's on field combat prowess.

BardokRedSnow · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

You can call it whatever you like

It's one skill out of many. But it's one skill that could unlock your hidden potential and drastically rasie your power level, and thus change your opinion towards the proportionate impact of the respective build systems, with regard to one's on field combat prowess.

From Gizit complaining about me tower humping it’s pretty obvious I know how to do more than build lol, but even if I went off your assumption that I can only build, any such skills needed to be developed can just be used in greyhost. I’m not settling for less just to help Vengeance not be dead 5 days out of the week or more

xylena · April 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

any such skills needed to be developed can just be used in greyhost

Then seek out stronger opponents who won't so easily be outbuilt. Practice and reach the level of those streamers you name drop. Fight the other 1vXers and smallscalers. Try your hand in Stormhaven, or fight the BGs queue until you find some High MMR matches. The experience will certainly change your opinions on many different game mechanics.

BardokRedSnow · April 27

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

any such skills needed to be developed can just be used in greyhost

Then seek out stronger opponents who won't so easily be outbuilt. Practice and reach the level of those streamers you name drop. Fight the other 1vXers and smallscalers. Try your hand in Stormhaven, or fight the BGs queue until you find some High MMR matches. The experience will certainly change your opinions on many different game mechanics.

Please, teach me your ways so I am worthy to Zerg in Vengeance with you

In the meantime I’ll be sticking to the actual gameplay and pvp

Gizit · April 27

Bardok, please dont misinterpet my understanding of how you play the game vs. actually being good. I still love you though! And thanks for all the AP over the years.

WuffyCerulei · April 27

I’m still looking forward to them implementing Vengeance as a live campaign in June, as I FIRMLY believe it is the best way for new and inexperienced players to learn and enjoy Cyrodiil PVP without the sweatiest PVPers in the cheesiest ever builds chomping at the bit to completely ruin their first PVP experience the moment they step out the gates. It offers a much more even playing field, and if those players want to do more serious PVP, they can go to Grey Host. I personally prefer Grey Host, but I could go to Veng if I need a breather from all the sweats and ball groups. Not sure why that one guy wanted to throw hands over me caring about my, my friends’, and others’ gameplay at the same time, but I just do. I want others to have the same fun I’ve had in ESO, regardless of who you are.

PS: I don’t think Vengeance is perfect. It has a lot of flaws that need to be hammered out, but it’s promising.

Gizit · April 27

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I’m still looking forward to them implementing Vengeance as a live campaign in June, as I FIRMLY believe it is the best way for new and inexperienced players to learn and enjoy Cyrodiil PVP without the sweatiest PVPers in the cheesiest ever builds chomping at the bit to completely ruin their first PVP experience the moment they step out the gates. It offers a much more even playing field, and if those players want to do more serious PVP, they can go to Grey Host. I personally prefer Grey Host, but I could go to Veng if I need a breather from all the sweats and ball groups. Not sure why that one guy wanted to throw hands over me caring about my, my friends’, and others’ gameplay at the same time, but I just do. I want others to have the same fun I’ve had in ESO, regardless of who you are.

PS: I don’t think Vengeance is perfect. It has a lot of flaws that need to be hammered out, but it’s promising.

I couldnt agree more. hit the nail on the head.

BardokRedSnow · April 27

At the very least it’ll be nice to not have to deal with these tests taking away Greyhost anymore

If they just had both up from the start I doubt anyone would be mad over it, including myself.

xylena · April 27

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Please, teach me your ways so I am worthy to Zerg in Vengeance with you

It must come from within Bardok, but perhaps this article can help.

Jammy420 · April 27

xencthlu wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

As someone who played a nightblade brawler, trust me, it changed enough that I wanted to just vomit. Maybe for some classes it did not change, but for mine it definitely did, and I have all but stopped playing that character because god I was tired of having to move things around and change gear every few months. On vengeance I can just hop in, pvp, hop out. 0 problem. Is it perfect? No, but its way WAY better than the GH mess imo.

Oh, this is so interesting. I used to be a nightblade brawler in GH, too, as one of my main in game activities. I quit when multiclassing went live, and I'm also someone who really enjoys the simplicity and accessibility of Vengeance. GH did eventually just tire me out. It felt like I had to work a lot harder to achieve the same results I had a year or two ago. I didn't expect to see someone in a similar position to me on the forums. The way people make it sound, serious PVPers universally reject Vengeance.

I wonder if we're the only ones, or if there's something to this nightblade brawler angle.

Nightblade brawler used to be really fun, but like you said, it is something that we CONSTANTLY had to re-adjust to feel useful, and eventually it just burnt me out. I mean it is still doable, but it feels like I have to put in twenty times more effort than everyone else.

Someone mentioned it being good again in vengeance, but honestly, I got so burnt out, I dunno if I wanna go through the rollercoaster of " oh nb brawler is fun " all the way to the depths of " Oh nb brawler makes me want to spoon my own eyes out " again. xD

The Uninvited · April 27

Let me ask a question to the Vengeance players, who say Vengeance is more about skill and less about builds.

IF (and that's a big IF) everyone, as you proclaim, is running the meta in Gray Host (so essentially running the same sets, combined with the same subclass setup), wouldn't that automatically make Gray Host also about skill?

I mean, everyone running the meta would make it rougly the same as Vengeance (same loadout), right?

ZOS_Icy · April 27

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

The Elder Scrolls Online Team

blktauna · April 27

The Uninvited wrote: »

Let me ask a question to the Vengeance players, who say Vengeance is more about skill and less about builds.

IF (and that's a big IF) everyone, as you proclaim, is running the meta in Gray Host (so essentially running the same sets, combined with the same subclass setup), wouldn't that automatically make Gray Host also about skill?

I mean, everyone running the meta would make it rougly the same as Vengeance (same loadout), right?

Its not broken cheese meta of unkillable DK/Warden/SORC hybrids. Prople die and the battle rages on.

DreadKnight · April 27

For me a huge part of the games is centered around collecting/farming sets and working out build combinations for my enjoyment in Cyrodiil pvp. Vengeance completely destroys that for me and therefore it is not something I enjoy at all. It completely negates the 100's (or 1000's) of hours I've put into the game since launch.

The overall majority do not want it, so please listen to that sentiment and direct those resources to improving Cyrodiil. I always point out that when the new servers were implemented a few years ago now, Cyrodiil (grey host) ran perfectly until updates started coming. Start there.

The Uninvited · April 27

DreadKnight wrote: »

For me a huge part of the games is centered around collecting/farming sets and working out build combinations for my enjoyment in Cyrodiil pvp. Vengeance completely destroys that for me and therefore it is not something I enjoy at all. It completely negates the 100's (or 1000's) of hours I've put into the game since launch.

The overall majority do not want it, so please listen to that sentiment and direct those resources to improving Cyrodiil. I always point out that when the new servers were implemented a few years ago now, Cyrodiil (grey host) ran perfectly until updates started coming. Start there.

It's also everytime they reset the server, maybe they should do that more often.

The Uninvited · April 27

blktauna wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Let me ask a question to the Vengeance players, who say Vengeance is more about skill and less about builds.

IF (and that's a big IF) everyone, as you proclaim, is running the meta in Gray Host (so essentially running the same sets, combined with the same subclass setup), wouldn't that automatically make Gray Host also about skill?

I mean, everyone running the meta would make it rougly the same as Vengeance (same loadout), right?

Its not broken cheese meta of unkillable DK/Warden/SORC hybrids. Prople die and the battle rages on.

I die more from lag and desyncs, to be honest. For me, only 2 things in Gray Host that are really overpowered at the moment. Critical damage (way too high) and heal stacking.

blktauna · April 27

You are not the majority so please do not represent yourself as such.

Not everything is for everybody so I'm sure you are dissappointed you must be without GH for a time. I'd like a pvp ro;; back to Elsewyr but we all know that isn't happening, so we will have to work with what we have. GH will be back in it cheesy, meta bustedness soon enough

blktauna · April 27

The Uninvited wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Let me ask a question to the Vengeance players, who say Vengeance is more about skill and less about builds.

IF (and that's a big IF) everyone, as you proclaim, is running the meta in Gray Host (so essentially running the same sets, combined with the same subclass setup), wouldn't that automatically make Gray Host also about skill?

I mean, everyone running the meta would make it rougly the same as Vengeance (same loadout), right?

Its not broken cheese meta of unkillable DK/Warden/SORC hybrids. Prople die and the battle rages on.

I die more from lag and desyncs, to be honest.

caused by the DK whip and warden cham desynchs. yuck. I can't even go into gh much anymore because the lag drops me after an hour. Its too irritating so I stay in blackreach or the equivalent

MorallyBipolar · April 27

blktauna wrote: »

You are not the majority so please do not represent yourself as such.

Not everything is for everybody so I'm sure you are dissappointed you must be without GH for a time. I'd like a pvp ro;; back to Elsewyr but we all know that isn't happening, so we will have to work with what we have. GH will be back in it cheesy, meta bustedness soon enough

You are the minority. So please do not represent yourself as the majority.

The vast majority of the PvP community will not play vengeance under any circumstances. We will leave the game before playing vengeance again.

We've put in our time and treasure to be able to play GH. Maybe next time they run vengeance they should remove all PvE zones from the game so people like you would have some experience with being treated the same way the PvP community gets treated during vengeance....the perfect name for what ZOS is doing to the PvP community.