SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE

fizzybeef · April 24

On the playstation servers Vengeance never had a single bar yet this event.
This game mode is so empty and dead, i played it for 2 hours - the chat was empty, maybe like 10 people ran arround, the fights were slow and unenjoyable.

The pose my characcter is doing is portraying my mood when i think about why this game mode is still being pushed and invested in, when it is literally dead on arrival:

Instead of pushing 900 people cap with a dead play mode, it would be better to try to fix GH and maybe get a cap of 600 people instead of 900.

Get a mix of both, instead of giving up GH.

And just to state : im not against having Vengeance as a second option aside of GH (wich will be happening in the future anyway).

But i can tell already vengeance wont be populated because people dont like it. They dont even play it when its only one option.

SneaK · April 24

I’d rather see them just open an experimental campaign with a 900 cap. Every camp reset they tweak stuff until they find what is optimal. Instead of overhauling everything and creating new/dull gameplay, rip off all the bandaids then start stitching away at what seems to be the biggest issues.

Reverse engineer, not reengineer.

Erickson9610 · April 24

The high population cap of Vengeance leads to the faction imbalance we see on both PC megaservers. This isn't something alliance lock can fix.

We should not want the heightened population cap of Vengeance to be put in Gray Host. GH is fair to play because all three factions are reliably at population cap; i.e. they have an equal number of players on each faction. Vengeance throws this balance out of the window by making it possible to overwhelm both enemy factions by sheer numbers alone.

spartaxoxo · April 24

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

alternatelder · April 24

We should wait until people are relaxing on the weekend to see how population is. People are at work or school with little time to waste on weekdays. This started on Monday, didn't it?

valenwood_vegan · April 24

It'll be interesting to see what happens when it's actually live alongside Grey Host. I mean I personally intend to play it once the veterancy system goes live along with it, but these continued brief "tests" feel pointless to me.

There's other stuff going on during the week, and other stuff going on in the game, and I don't have anything to gain from spending time in a test server that's just gonna vanish in a few days.

I think there are people who don't regularly pvp, but might spend time in permanent vengeance, but just don't care about another test, or have other things to do during this short test period, or don't even realize there's a test going on.

Or maybe it will be DoA and they'll have to go back to the drawing board. If it's empty, it's not going to be fun and it'll fizzle out pretty quickly. I'm just not ready to judge that from yet another pointless vengeance test.

fizzybeef · April 24

alternatelder wrote: »

We should wait until people are relaxing on the weekend to see how population is. People are at work or school with little time to waste on weekdays. This started on Monday, didn't it?

I mean yeah we can always find excuses to defend bad desicsions.

But on the other hand it’s a Friday, prime time
and it’s a PLAYSTATION server and we can’t find enough people to fill one bar (300 players) of a game wich wants to survive for the next 30 years.

This is now, Friday 8:37 pm PS EU

Sylosi · April 24

On EU PC it currently has all factions at 2 or 3 bars.

Pepegrillos · April 24

Isn't one bar equal to 100 players in vengeance?

SkaiFaith · April 24

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Isn't one bar equal to 100 players in vengeance?

That's probable, and I don't even know if on console servers we have that many PvPers in general XD

I am no PvP guy, so I have no word in this, but I enjoyed first Vengeance test when players actually participated. Never been able to participate again because it feels like there's a boycot from players and it's empty.

spartaxoxo · April 24

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Isn't one bar equal to 100 players in vengeance?

That's probable, and I don't even know if on console servers we have that many PvPers in general XD

I am no PvP guy, so I have no word in this, but I enjoyed first Vengeance test when players actually participated. Never been able to participate again because it feels like there's a boycot from players and it's empty.

Can't speak to other servers but I saw in zone chat a few times people PvPers trying to get others on the servers not to play Vengeance the last time around. No idea if that boycott is still a thing this time around. I haven't seen anyone talking about it in a good or bad way. I legit plain forgot it was happening and didn't even know it had already started.

fizzybeef · April 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

Isn't one bar equal to 100 players in vengeance no?

That's probable, and I don't even know if on console servers we have that many PvPers in general XD

I am no PvP guy, so I have no word in this, but I enjoyed first Vengeance test when players actually participated. Never been able to participate again because it feels like there's a boycot from players and it's empty.

Can't speak to other servers but I saw in zone chat a few times people PvPers trying to get others on the servers not to play Vengeance the last time around. No idea if that boycott is still a thing this time around. I haven't seen anyone talking about it in a good or bad way. I legit plain forgot it was happening and didn't even know it had already started.

Personally never seen a call for a boycott and I doubt people would listen to each other and not play, if they actually enjoyed the game mode

LalMirchi · April 24

While I could get into some form of PVP I do not atm. Cryro is to me the epitome of boredom.

In spite of my misgivings I did my civic duty and tested the first iteration of Vengeance for the duration. While the battles were fun the long riding back after dying was extremely boring. So, not exactly my cup of tea. As this mechanic will probably never be changed and the area itself being so vast I'd rather not bother with it.

I do hope that Vengeance might shed some light into the technical problems.

BardokRedSnow · April 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

BardokRedSnow · April 24

LalMirchi wrote: »

In spite of my misgivings I did my civic duty and tested the first iteration of Vengeance for the duration.

I am probably being triggered here, apologies, but serious or not from you, there are people here who actually feel this way.

We are customers, consumers. There is no civic duty, any obligation or expectation to help Zos develop their content. We can choose to help, because we love this game, and many do. Both with tests in the past like the no proc test, or the pts.

If you choose to aid them with Vengeance so be it, that's your right. But I really want people here to understand this. Vengeance wasn't a choice. There was only one test, prior to this one where Greyhost was included with Vengeance, and it was the second week of the tests. Beyond that they've been taking away Greyhost entirely for people to aid, whether you wish to participate or not. At least in the case of the no proc test you still had sets to choose from and it was like the base game we were used to for years.

This Vengeance mode however is so different it may as well be a different game, and not an mmo either. That isn't what I've opted into for over a decade. There is no expectation on me to aid Zos, there is however an expectation on Zos to serve up what the customers have been asking for, and its not Vengeance, its a more playable Greyhost. We've been putting up with the lackluster performance this long, we can wait longer.

I'm aware that the final iteration will be Vengeance and Greyhost but they made it clear the former is going to be receiving their time and attention despite the clear lack of interest from even the pvers and casual players its targeted towards.

If people here are confused as to why the pvp guilds aren't aiding the tests, this is why. It is not the product we want, nor is it the product we've been promised. So of course, we won't touch it. That isn't a boycott, that is choice, which is what the game philosophy was focused on.

And if Vengeance is here to stay, then so be it but Greyhost needs to remain in your focus as well, and primarily* not pushed aside for an audience you want to swell its ranks that can't even populate it for two days.

xylena · April 24

one bar Vengeance = entire pop locked GH faction

BardokRedSnow · April 24

xylena wrote: »

one bar Vengeance = entire pop locked GH faction

300 vs 360 plus multiple hours of people waiting to get in per faction.

This is false.

Elendildur · April 24

fizzybeef wrote: »

On the playstation servers Vengeance never had a single bar yet this event.
This game mode is so empty and dead, i played it for 2 hours - the chat was empty, maybe like 10 people ran arround, the fights were slow and unenjoyable.

The pose my characcter is doing is portraying my mood when i think about why this game mode is still being pushed and invested in, when it is literally dead on arrival:

Instead of pushing 900 people cap with a dead play mode, it would be better to try to fix GH and maybe get a cap of 600 people instead of 900.

Get a mix of both, instead of giving up GH.

And just to state : im not against having Vengeance as a second option aside of GH (wich will be happening in the future anyway).

But i can tell already vengeance wont be populated because people dont like it. They dont even play it when its only one option.

On PC EU, there's one bar for AD, and 2 bars for the other alliances. It definitely can be populated

xylena · April 24

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

300 vs 360

My bad, 1 bar Vengeance is ackshually 80% of the entire pop locked GH. That changes everything! If only there was a PvP server that could handle those hundreds in queue without lag.

licenturion · April 24

Why are people so worked up about Vengeance.

Yeah, the decision to remove GH during the test is a bad one. I fully agree with this.

But some people seem so angry at Vengeance becoming an option soon. Let’s be real here. You won’t be able to cancel Vengeance. ZOS has put way too much energy in this and it is in the final stages before release now.

After this you have a choice: GH, Vengeance and soon the third brand new mode. That way there is something for everyone and there is no need to try to boycott or cancel something. Just like the card game; if you don’t like it then don’t play it.

But at this point it seems some people are angry that players have a choice soon between 2 experiences…and soon 3. If the other modes are dead anyway, why all the need of doomposting and gloating the mode is already anyway? Haven’t you already reached ‘your goal’ then?

BardokRedSnow · April 24

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

300 vs 360

My bad, 1 bar Vengeance is ackshually 80% of the entire pop locked GH. That changes everything! If only there was a PvP server that could handle those hundreds in queue without lag.

it absolutely does when only one faction is reaching 2 bars, and the 300 plus players are getting stomped and ran over daily, so much that the norm on PCNA is EP sitting with 6 scrolls most of the day, thousands of points ahead.

More players doesn't matter much when they're just filling up primarily one faction to win because Vengeance is a mere numbers game and nothing more.

licenturion wrote: »

Why are people so worked up about Vengeance.

Yeah, the decision to remove GH during the test is a bad one. I fully agree with this.

You have your answer. This coupled with their comments of "we can't fix greyhost", and of course people are mad. They absolutely can, they even did so accidentally last time they updated their hardware for the servers. And it is especially a bad decision when last time we had the test they included greyhost alongside Vengeance, and everyone went to Greyhost.

xylena · April 24

licenturion wrote: »

Haven’t you already reached ‘your goal’ then?

They're afraid that a mode played by "nobody" is going to kill or replace GH.

blktauna · April 24

I love playing on an equal field with high pop and enormous battles where I don't lag out from ball groups or being desynched by dk hybrids.

I love vengence and am happy about it becoming permanent. If you want to wait hours to get into GH, enjoy. I'd rather be fighting.

spartaxoxo · April 24

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

You might not be. But, telling other people to not play it either and to join you in not playing it so the devs will listen is definitely a boycott.

BardokRedSnow · April 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

Telling other people to not play it either and to join you in not playing it so the devs will listen is definitely a boycott.

This isn't happening anywhere I've seen and if it is, not in big enough numbers to matter.

I certainly have never said this and no one can claim otherwise. I wouldn't need to, its already a failed campaign, again.

It isn't even worth talking about unless someone can show an example of it occurring.

BardokRedSnow · April 24

xylena wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Haven’t you already reached ‘your goal’ then?

They're afraid that a mode played by "nobody" is going to kill or replace GH.

Because unfortunately despite it being a dead snoozeville ever since the first test, Zos is still pushing it, and making us sit without greyhost for 7 days.

xylena · April 24

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

making us sit without greyhost for 7 days

oh god how terrible

BardokRedSnow · April 24

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

making us sit without greyhost for 7 days

oh god how terrible

Troll as much as you like, hundreds of players stopped logging in because of this and that will concern Zos a lot more than people like yourself claiming they like Vengeance but not even playing it.

spartaxoxo · April 24

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

Telling other people to not play it either and to join you in not playing it so the devs will listen is definitely a boycott.

This isn't happening anywhere I've seen and if it is, not in big enough numbers to matter.

I certainly have never said this and no one can claim otherwise. I wouldn't need to, its already a failed campaign, again.

It isn't even worth talking about unless someone can show an example of it occurring.

I never claimed you did. I talked about my experiences and what I witnessed in zone chat. I don't even think we play on the same server.

BardokRedSnow · April 24

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

It's not a "boycott", we just don't want to play this garbage.

Imagine if your trials and dungeons got replaced with a pve template for damage dealer, healer and tank, no sets to gain or earn, just vanilla template slop where everyone's the same and the difficulty was set to normal.

Worse, the player counts are tripled in number.

Would you like that? That's essentially what is happening here. Ultra snoozefest casual mode not even entertaining to pvers longer than two days.

Telling other people to not play it either and to join you in not playing it so the devs will listen is definitely a boycott.

This isn't happening anywhere I've seen and if it is, not in big enough numbers to matter.

I certainly have never said this and no one can claim otherwise. I wouldn't need to, its already a failed campaign, again.

It isn't even worth talking about unless someone can show an example of it occurring.

I never claimed you did. I talked about my experiences and what I witnessed in zone chat. I don't even think we play on the same server.

Then I repeat myself, an example here or there isn't worth discussing unless it can be shown its happening in large numbers enough to be a community movement. Here on PCNA we have the same result, a dead campaign without seemingly any calls for a "boycott". People just don't want to play it.

SneaK · April 24

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

making us sit without greyhost for 7 days

oh god how terrible

Troll as much as you like, hundreds of players stopped logging in because of this and that will concern Zos a lot more than people like yourself claiming they like Vengeance but not even playing it.

I would say it’s the other way around, the people championing Vengeance that won’t even play it will ultimately be the false flags ZOS chased off the cliff.