Ticket ID: 260422-000982

Athory · April 22

@ZOS_Kevin

Ticket ID: 260422-000982

The full screenshot is included in the report.

[snip]

Can we ensure the same treatment for all players? Or is saying “not for ***” considered acceptable?
Do I need to provide any additional details, such as the player’s address or anything else?

[Removed image for Naming-and-Shaming]

spartaxoxo · April 22

This belongs in the ticket itself. Not The forums itself for calling out another player. That said, yes, that looks reportable. A date and time you saw it would also be helpful in the ticket, if you remember such information.

Bguk · April 22

At least he called out the correct people to get this thread locked and gone.

Athory · April 22

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This belongs in the ticket itself. The forums itself for calling out another player. That said, yes, that looks reportable. A date and time you saw it would also be helpful in the ticket, if you remember such information.

No names were shown. Do you see any naming or shaming?

spartaxoxo · April 22

Athory wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This belongs in the ticket itself. The forums itself for calling out another player. That said, yes, that looks reportable. A date and time you saw it would also be helpful in the ticket, if you remember such information.

No names were shown. Do you see any naming or shaming?

I know you didn't name them. It's still just calling out another player. You censored them, which is good. But you're just trying to get attention for a ticket against a specific person. There's not much for players to discuss other than yeah, that one person shouldn't have that specific title. Also, it contains the inappropriate content rather than just a non-offending description of it. I'm just trying to give you a heads up. If you'd like to discuss this topic more broadly, you may want to move it away from the ticket and instead to a discussion about inappropriate names in the activity finder without repeating the offending content.

I will say that sometimes the ticket process takes more than one reply. So, if they didn't see the ticket the screenshot the first time, it can be helpful to include the 2nd time.

Syldras · April 22

Athory wrote: »

No names were shown. Do you see any naming or shaming?

The insulting word is visible on the screenshot. From what I know, in the USA, even writing out unaccepted words to factually discuss them is frowned upon. They get replaced by "r-word", "a-word", "l-word", "z-word" (making those up right now as I have no clue) or whatever instead, and people seem to know what it means. Which, honestly, is super confusing for people in other cultures where words aren't taboos themselves and the context is the thing that matters (also, the notion you must describe a thing as clearly as possibly to discuss it), but it's how it is - different cultures, different habits.

emilyhyoyeon · April 22

I saw another group finder posting using the same word like 10min ago

Lagzee · April 22

such a non issue

twisttop138 · April 22

Syldras wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

No names were shown. Do you see any naming or shaming?

The insulting word is visible on the screenshot. From what I know, in the USA, even writing out unaccepted words to factually discuss them is frowned upon. They get replaced by "r-word", "a-word", "l-word", "z-word" (making those up right now as I have no clue) or whatever instead, and people seem to know what it means. Which, honestly, is super confusing for people in other cultures where words aren't taboos themselves and the context is the thing that matters (also, the notion you must describe a thing as clearly as possibly to discuss it), but it's how it is - different cultures, different habits.

If only we in America could find our way back to this.

AScarlato · April 22

Bguk wrote: »

At least he called out the correct people to get this thread locked and gone.

To be fair, I have seen the mods ask for ticket numbers here so they can follow up when people post about their ticket issues.

So I can see based on past practices thinking this is a way to follow up.

Malyore · April 22

The irony of the guy not being able to spell "required"

Maybe English is not their first language and they are using the archaic use of the now insult.

Not saying that their usage is okay, they are talking about people here, after all. But I can understand if there is confusion in (potentially) not understanding just how derogatory a word like that can be in a language that still uses it in things like "bread retarder".
Even so, yes this shouldn't be excusable and there are way better ways for them to say what they're trying to say. And it should be reported because it's not for us to give the benefit of the doubt and let a potential recurring offender/bad actor continue... ZOS will handle it how they see fit

BardokRedSnow · April 22

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

BardokRedSnow · April 22

Syldras wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

No names were shown. Do you see any naming or shaming?

The insulting word is visible on the screenshot. From what I know, in the USA, even writing out unaccepted words to factually discuss them is frowned upon. They get replaced by "r-word", "a-word", "l-word", "z-word" (making those up right now as I have no clue) or whatever instead, and people seem to know what it means. Which, honestly, is super confusing for people in other cultures where words aren't taboos themselves and the context is the thing that matters (also, the notion you must describe a thing as clearly as possibly to discuss it), but it's how it is - different cultures, different habits.

Only some of us, most of us do not care a lick. Vocal minority, very vocal make a fuss. Rest of us carry on like adults.

Malyore · April 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

AScarlato · April 22

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

Athory · April 22

I’m not sure whether it’s racist or if different cultures should be treated differently for each player. But one thing I really hope remains true is: "the rules apply equally to all players."

twisttop138 · April 22

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

Yeah the constant running to tattle is old hat.

Malyore · April 22

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

So derogatory and hateful remarks DO have a place in this game?

There is also such a thing as having the capacity to not get personally offended or insulted by a thing, yet still recognize the inappropriateness of a behavior and try to have it amended through official channels that are in place exactly for that purpose.

joshisanonymous · April 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

Maybe you're the one who needs thicker skin if you feel the need to publicly complain about this. Can't handle being reported for dehumanizing people? Grow up.

BardokRedSnow · April 22

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Maybe Im biased because Im a biracial black American but the two examples here are not equal and it is really annoying seeing people always pull out this excuse to justify being offended for everything else.

SilverBride · April 22

Adults shouldn't resort to the childish behavior of calling each other names in the first place.

AScarlato · April 22

Malyore wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

So derogatory and hateful remarks DO have a place in this game?

There is also such a thing as having the capacity to not get personally offended or insulted by a thing, yet still recognize the inappropriateness of a behavior and try to have it amended through official channels that are in place exactly for that purpose.

I didn't say that. I just know gamers insult each other, it is what it is. I've been insulted many times in BGs but I just put the ranting people on ignore - I also am not so sensitive that I care if they press the crouch button over me when I chose to be very tanky and annoying.

I think some full adults are too sensitive and since we have an ignore function we can just use that?

I'm also an older person who was taught to try to resolve my differences with others on my own and only go to higher authorities as a last resort. Here I see situations where some people try to bait people into getting their accounts hit with actions and know exactly how the play the system in that way too.

BardokRedSnow · April 22

joshisanonymous wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

Maybe you're the one who needs thicker skin if you feel the need to publicly complain about this. Can't handle being reported for dehumanizing people? Grow up.

Who says Im offended? More annoyed really.

Malyore · April 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Maybe Im biased because Im a biracial black American but the two examples here are not equal and it is really annoying seeing people always pull out this excuse to justify being offended for everything else.

Why does derogatory language against one marginalized group of people need to be equal to another group for it to be valid? Why can't both be unacceptable, even if not equal in historical scope/context?

Bguk · April 22

AScarlato wrote: »

Bguk wrote: »

At least he called out the correct people to get this thread locked and gone.

To be fair, I have seen the mods ask for ticket numbers here so they can follow up when people post about their ticket issues.

So I can see based on past practices thinking this is a way to follow up.

True. Although it appears the ticket was initially created today, so the OP did not allow time for customer service to process the ticket. Almost like the OP knows this would stir the pot by creating another thread about "the rules apply equally to all players."

Also, agree with the other post you made about adults.

BardokRedSnow · April 22

Malyore wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

So derogatory and hateful remarks DO have a place in this game?

There is also such a thing as having the capacity to not get personally offended or insulted by a thing, yet still recognize the inappropriateness of a behavior and try to have it amended through official channels that are in place exactly for that purpose.

Thats why we have an ignore function and also, you're not required to join a guild with that in the description. If anything its good they have that there so you know that guild does not fit your sensibilities. Other guilds are allowed to include they're specifically for certain groups of people for example and this is accepted. I wont name said group because that would definitely be considered bait or against tos etc. I do not complain, I just don't apply and move on.

I feel like it should be the same for this, rather than having that guild be reprimanded for having different sensibilities as some here.

Bguk · April 22

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

So derogatory and hateful remarks DO have a place in this game?

There is also such a thing as having the capacity to not get personally offended or insulted by a thing, yet still recognize the inappropriateness of a behavior and try to have it amended through official channels that are in place exactly for that purpose.

Thats why we have an ignore function and also, you're not required to join a guild with that in the description. If anything its good they have that there so you know that guild does not fit your sensibilities. Other guilds are allowed to include they're specifically for certain groups of people for example and this is accepted. I do not complain, I just don't apply and move on.

I feel like it should be the same for this, rather than having that guild be reprimanded for having different sensibilities as some here.

Part of the problem is legally using certain language is punishable by law in some countries. I agree with your posts, but the problem is currently more serious than simply ignore. ZOS has to comply or they would be punished by law. Sad, yet really scary.

BardokRedSnow · April 22

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Maybe Im biased because Im a biracial black American but the two examples here are not equal and it is really annoying seeing people always pull out this excuse to justify being offended for everything else.

Why does derogatory language against one marginalized group of people need to be equal to another group for it to be valid? Why can't both be unacceptable, even if not equal in historical scope/context?

Because that alleged derogatory language was accepted terminology once upon a recent time, and its always shifting, and this game has a lot of different cultures and people of different countries in it, who do not adhere to very western, very american especially, concepts of what is or is not appropriate or "malicious". Racism is pretty universally known to be bad, and malicious. The op's example however whether people here agree or not isn't.

And because this topic is so sensitive I think I'll make this my last response, Im sure the moderators will be cleaning this up soon anyway.

Bguk · April 22

SilverBride wrote: »

Adults shouldn't resort to the childish behavior of calling each other names in the first place.

My friends and I would disagree. We don't call random people names. Between the group we do. We enjoy it, it's camaraderie. Why? Dunno, it's how we enjoy gaming and each other.

Adults can resort to childish behavior, not even just calling each other names. I work with some every day. Good times.

SilverBride · April 22

Bguk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Adults shouldn't resort to the childish behavior of calling each other names in the first place.

My friends and I would disagree. We don't call random people names. Between the group we do. We enjoy it, it's camaraderie. Why? Dunno, it's how we enjoy gaming and each other.

Adults can resort to childish behavior, not even just calling each other names. I work with some every day. Good times.

There is a difference between friends joking around with each other and people calling strangers offensive names in anger. That is immature and childish.

Malyore · April 22

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Really wish zos would just tell people to have thicker skin instead of encouraging reporting for every little thing that offends people in a game with slavery murder and other stuff in relation to the now "King of Schemes" I probably can't even say on these forums. Everything from this to reporting for bagging as harrassment needs to go away for a game allegedly for 17+

There's a difference between a narrative having dark themes vs players insulting other people. Or does racism in guilds become okay because the altmer do it too?

Well, racism has no place but if two adults playing a game call each other names I'd hope they can just put each other on ignore than need customer service to intervene. It's very petty and it feels like a waste of time when the game gives you options to remove yourself from hearing unpleasant people.

So derogatory and hateful remarks DO have a place in this game?

There is also such a thing as having the capacity to not get personally offended or insulted by a thing, yet still recognize the inappropriateness of a behavior and try to have it amended through official channels that are in place exactly for that purpose.

I didn't say that. I just know gamers insult each other, it is what it is. I've been insulted many times in BGs but I just put the ranting people on ignore - I also am not so sensitive that I care if they press the crouch button over me when I chose to be very tanky and annoying.

I think some full adults are too sensitive and since we have an ignore function we can just use that?

I'm also an older person who was taught to try to resolve my differences with others on my own and only go to higher authorities as a last resort. Here I see situations where some people try to bait people into getting their accounts hit with actions and know exactly how the play the system in that way too.

I can see some of your point. I don't think I've ever reported anyone besides bots because I haven't seen any hateful behavior myself, and I even get a wry chuckle when I get t-bagged in BGs...

I also agree that some people are too sensitive, but that also doesn't mean that every offender is exempt just because their actions to hurt someone succeeded. And I don't think it's wrong to want to enforce respectful language in a videogame that has rules and TOS for such things already.