Werewolf ‘class mastery’ suggestion

Wuuffyy · April 19

Keeping this short and simple- trying to get a suggestion out there regarding werewolf and class mastery. This is essentially a spin of another suggestion I saw in the general werewolf feedback thread so feel free to tag whomever for credit.

-Give werewolf its own ‘class mastery’ line (only while transformed so one may benefit from running pure class- even if not for MAXIMUM efficiency it remains viable).

While transformed, you are unfortunately locked out of standard class mastery in this scenario however can access the same on the werewolf-side for werewolf. To avoid further power spikes (until we post something to live to see actual flow), make these class mastery passives on the lower end of power ‘increases’ and/or more flavor or utility oriented.

As a result, we should keep standard class passives (as we always have), and return weapon passives to us (we need the pen and the movement speed is essential when barred completely from a purge/snare removal).

~I’m sure it’s a bit of work but to me this seems like a fair suggestion and we have ~4-5 weeks to make it happen so seems relatively fair there as well (idk, I don’t code so gl out there!)

Wuuffyy · April 19

To add to this, @React, I imagine most wouldn’t run Pyrebrand either as most of its efficiency comes from the class mastery passive when in werewolf. Pyrebrand itself was nerfed to 60% value (roughly) so that should help with that surmised point also. (tagging as I hope you’ll pretty please approve my suggestion 😊)

CrimsonXReaper · April 19

Honestly, yes. Just throwing this idea out there, but having Werewolves select their own passives and, in addition, a few passives based on your current class could be interesting. I would also disable class line passives and put more power into those werewolf passives, because people are just going to gravitate toward the same class lines again, and we don’t know what the next class reworks are going to look like.

So, for example, in addition of the current werewolf passives, you could select 2 out of 5 werewolf specific passives for build diversity like the current pure class passive system, and another passive selection of 1-2 out of 3-4 based on your current class. So yeah a lot of passives there. These could even be in the same passive line page if possible or even altogether and let you choose if you want those class passives or not.

These passive could also have stats line(s) linked to them as well to make up for class lines loss/weapon passive loss, that would be similar across the classes and could make it easier to balance.

Imagine a Necro werewolf summoning dead werewolves to fight by their side during Blood Rage. Or a Sorc werewolf having a 50% chance during Blood Rage to transform Rip and Tear into a shock ranged bite attack (similar to Crystal Frag). Each class could even have a special innate passive interacting with Blood Rage. There are so many opportunities here. Also like dealing physical/elemental status effect on light/heavy attacks based on your class, etc. Having similar werewolf passives with class identity could be a nice touch to all of this and bring more diversity to werewolf gameplay.

And once all done then they could be revisited for buffs and nerfs without affecting the class directly.

This seems like a lot and someone mentioned ZoS not having the man power for something like this but the current pure class passives seem designed with their own class in mind, not with werewolf in mind, and not going in another direction will lead to class favoritism like we currently have, I've never seen a nightblade werewolf or necro, arcanist.

HMG_Spaun · May 6

While we are at it, can we add “medium armor” mastery? Maybe even “soul magic” mastery? Just like werewolf, vampire, thieves guild, these are all skill lines. I will admit that werewolves might be getting the brunt of the nerfs, but why ask for a class mastery for something that is not a class? To me, if you are going to focus on a skill lines such as werewolf, give them multiple skill lines, passives, and choices.

Wuuffyy · May 6

HMG_Spaun wrote: »

While we are at it, can we add “medium armor” mastery? Maybe even “soul magic” mastery? Just like werewolf, vampire, thieves guild, these are all skill lines. I will admit that werewolves might be getting the brunt of the nerfs, but why ask for a class mastery for something that is not a class? To me, if you are going to focus on a skill lines such as werewolf, give them multiple skill lines, passives, and choices.

Werewolf had a rep during the official ‘class rep’ program. Let that sink in for a minute.

Okay, you ready for this next one? Werewolf functions like a class. It is a self-contained set of active/ultimate skills that are mutually exclusive from any other ‘class’.

Yes, you can transform to and fro, but you are strongly incentivized and rewarded for staying in form and building around form. Consider the transformation part as almost a type of ‘flavor’ that comes simply for lore/ the werewolf trope in comparison to actual gameplay intent.

The reason why no ‘medium armor mastery’ is one simply doesn’t need it. You can both equip and freely build around medium armor whereas with werewolf, you’re essentially ‘stuck’ to the line if you want to commit to it for maximum efficiency.

Additionally, the capacity to ‘control’ the beast i.e ‘master the wolf’ is not something above Elder Scrolls lore OR the werewolf trope.

Wuuffyy · May 6

@CrimsonXReaper - I am asking for generic ‘werewolf mastery’ for now, at least, as that can be an easy ~here’s 5, pick 2~ with super generic value-deficient buffs that can serve as a way to lock out werewolf from some really exploitative toxic interaction that can/will negatively skew its balance adjustment while also, ultimately, and leading to the same outcome.

In my opinion, the generic buffs (at least) could be easy-to-implement and can serve as a ‘promise’ to add appropriate -flavor’ to them later on within hopefully a patch or 2 (versus just ripping them away completely and pigeonholing werewolves further with build options).

HMG_Spaun · May 6

I’m guessing you like talking to people like they are underneath you? You ready for this one. I said that if they are going to focus on reworking skill lines, such as werewolf, give them the ability to perform as a class. Multiple skill lines, more choices for abilities and passives, and some more synergy within its own tool kit. Essentially, make them an independent choice and give them full functionality as a class. Let that sink in.

HMG_Spaun · May 6

Also, replying for your visibility.

Pinktraining · May 6

No, the official statement has clearly stated that even modifying the range of a passive effect or adding a buff takes more than a week. It's not as easy as you say to add several new passive abilities. The only thing that's easy to modify is the numerical value of the ability.

Wuuffyy · May 6

HMG_Spaun wrote: »

I’m guessing you like talking to people like they are underneath you? You ready for this one. I said that if they are going to focus on reworking skill lines, such as werewolf, give them the ability to perform as a class. Multiple skill lines, more choices for abilities and passives, and some more synergy within its own tool kit. Essentially, make them an independent choice and give them full functionality as a class. Let that sink in.

In a perfect world, I’d love this. It just isn’t actionable for them right now and won’t be for a while (‘road’ is already set, they mentioned they are understandably tight with animations right now with so much animation work set and upcoming, etc.) whereas locking werewolf out of class mastery and providing a simple mastery system would be.

Many werewolf players have been advocating for concepts like werewolf scribes for a while now so many would appreciate having additional options that also help refute the ‘but 1 bar cannot…’ complaints.

Wuuffyy · May 6

Pinktraining wrote: »

No, the official statement has clearly stated that even modifying the range of a passive effect or adding a buff takes more than a week. It's not as easy as you say to add several new passive abilities. The only thing that's easy to modify is the numerical value of the ability.

Ah, if so- good to know. Well this has been suggested (not by me particularly) since the beginning of PTS so hopefully it could be on the table by something like next live.

It may be worth everyone’s while then if they simply disable straight damage-based class-mastery passives (i.e not Major Brittle from Warden’s mastery, for example) while in werewolf and provide some assurance that later-down-the-line they will either re-enable masteries as classes are reworked and their masteries are toned down, or simply to contain werewolf balance within its own ‘house’ by focusing as we’ve mentioned with ‘werewolf masteries’ instead at some point.