Sorc pet hate has to stop

Umbracat449 · April 18

birdmann1230 wrote: »

Put pets as a world line Conjuration and change Daedric summoning to something else on the sorc. Everyone gets their pets who wants them and the sorc isn’t handicapped by it. I wish for the day my main can run a high dps in content without them instead of beam spamming.

This is the way.

randconfig · April 18

birdmann1230 wrote: »

Put pets as a world line Conjuration and change Daedric summoning to something else on the sorc. Everyone gets their pets who wants them and the sorc isn’t handicapped by it. I wish for the day my main can run a high dps in content without them instead of beam spamming.

This. Give all classes access to daedric summons, so you can make sorcs by default no pet, so you can balance sorcs without the pet issue.

randconfig · April 18

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I have a strong suspicion that Pets are going to receive a total overhaul with the class reworks.

ZOS made a point last year to talk about how bad corpses (and thus pets, since they are the same thing in terms of the server calculations) were for the server.

Additionally, mosy pets function completely differently in Vengeance Cyrodiil.

I have a feeling a lot of the pets are going to shift on the backend towards things like Icy Conjuror, where there is a "pet-like visual" but they function almost identically to normal DoTs/HoTs/etc.

Honestly, I'm with this.

ADarklore · April 18

noblecron wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Sorc pets aren't even that good anymore, at least with subclassing; this "pets are strong" narrative from ZOS feels a little late to the party

Idk about that. A lot of subclass builds still use pet.

I think a lot of people use pets because they like pets, not necessarily because it's a good build.

Gunthar · April 18

My 2c on this: I (sorcereress) tested several pet and subclass pet builds. I had even tried a 4 pet build. And now I play for longer times without any pets because my DPS with the Arcanist Ray of Doom is higher than Stormcalling with pets, even with the additional pets from the necro and the warden subclass. That should be a hint to improve the pets instead of nerfing them.

xylena · April 18

Radiate77 wrote: »

Pets body blocking is the ENTIRE point.

Against 1 player this quickly becomes oppressive. Against a zerg your pet quickly dies.

Ever hear a Warden complain that their Netch keeps getting zerged down, or that their Shalks keep dying before they reach their target? Nope.

FlopsyPrince · April 19

I have to give up 2 skill slots on BOTH bars to keep my pets active. That is a huge drawback.

I have run a pet soc main on PC and PS4/5 the entire time I played, but I know I am nowhere near optimal, especially in PvP.

I really wish it was balanced a bit better.

Though I REALLY WANT a true pet class, like WoW, with tames and such....

Radiate77 · April 19

xylena wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Pets body blocking is the ENTIRE point.

Against 1 player this quickly becomes oppressive. Against a zerg your pet quickly dies.

Ever hear a Warden complain that their Netch keeps getting zerged down, or that their Shalks keep dying before they reach their target? Nope.

There is nothing oppressive about fighting a pet build. Tab target your opponent, or kill their twilight and they fall over without the heal.

I also want to note, that this is highly ironic… in another thread you’re pushing for Werewolf not to be nerfed, but it’s okay to come after something performing much less effective.

If anything, they need a buff.
Remove the two-bar limitation, it’s 2026.

xylena · April 19

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tab target

Does not work properly in PvP. You say it does for you? I bet you also have "no lag" lol.

Radiate77 · April 19

xylena wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Tab target

Does not work properly in PvP. You say it does for you? I bet you also have "no lag" lol.

Yeah I’m sure it doesn’t work properly for someone who likely doesn’t know how it works.

Try it sometime.

Radiate77 · April 19

On this episode of Radiate77 is right, we will be going into Core Combat systems for a deep dive…

Tab Targeting has been a part of ESO’s combat system since the beginning, as ESO was designed to be a hybrid Tab Target/Action MMORPG.

Years ago; when Cyrodiil’s population was exploding, the use of Tab Target to mark Templars was essential to winning Alliance fights, as players are oft to exploit their ability to phase between others to mitigate damage.

Tab Targeting allows you to bypass that exploit and focus down your opponent…

As seen in this GIF, your character will quite literally bypass what is in front of you, to attack something else. Be it through an enemy to hit the one behind it, or to attack something you’re not even facing, Tab Targeting solves any issues one might have with targeting for abilities.

Radiate77 · April 19

But let’s stop coming for my favorite things, otherwise we can Tab Target your favorite things and 180° this too and I’m sure I can come up with a more compelling case to tear down yours. 😁

RebornV3x · April 19

par for the course Sorcerer can never have nice things

guarstompemoji · April 20

I wouldn't mind sorc pets if they could be reskinned. Flappy is just in my face all the time.

Thoriorz · April 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

My suspicion is that pets will be the "accessability" option for sorcs, probably with lightning staff heavy attack builds in mind.
maybe add empower to twilight and the activation on tormentor adds an additional heavy attack buff or something, but outside of HA builds pets will be dead

And they don't even want HA builds to be good either.

Then they can subtract the profit from one player and also lose one active player. I’m obviously talking about myself—I play a HA Sorc with an Oeakensoul ring and pets (plus a bear from a Warden). It’s not exactly an OP build ofc, but it just works for me, and if this playstyle and build get hit with a big nerf, I’m quitting the game immediately.
I’m almost 40 years old, and spamming 10 skills, swapping bars, keeping track of cooldowns, and still paying attention to what’s happening in combat—I’m just too old and my hands aren’t up to it anymore. But Oeakensoul and a 1-bar HA are absolutely ideal for me, and I’m glad for that. As long as it’s still somewhat playable...

Glantir · April 20

GloatingSwine wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They already have to be double slotted. That's a massive cost in and of itself. And then you need Daedric prey to make them work. That's 5 skill slots taken up by them. Yet, they are NOT stronger than other AOE DOTS that cost significantly less than the pets.

This is why Sorcerer should have been the first class refresh IMO.

Fix this, and then they have a better basis for pets on Warden and Necromancer.

I guess the reason that DK was first, is that DK is a fanfavourite and also the loved Child of ZoS

Umbracat449 · April 22

Nightblade has been the best beloved.

I feel they thought dk would be the least controversial to start with.

acastanza_ESO · April 22

No

If Sorc Pets have a million critics, I am one of them. If Sorc Pets have one critic, it's me. If Sorc Pets have no critics I am dead

Tannus15 · April 23

Big shout out and thank you for this change that was quietly made @ZOS_Kevin

2 pet pure sorc is still well behind no pet sorc, but at least it's in the same ballpark

ZhuJiuyin · April 23

Tannus15 wrote: »

Big shout out and thank you for this change that was quietly made @ZOS_Kevin

2 pet pure sorc is still well behind no pet sorc, but at least it's in the same ballpark

I actually think this is a bad idea. Targeting Warden like this is unfair.
However, considering Warden is about to be reworked, it might be a temporary solution, but it also means that this item will need to be modified again in U51.
Modifying a single item across multiple versions is a waste of resources. Ideally, we could complete the changes to this item in U50, without wasting valuable resources modifying it again in U51.

Tannus15 · April 23

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Big shout out and thank you for this change that was quietly made @ZOS_Kevin

2 pet pure sorc is still well behind no pet sorc, but at least it's in the same ballpark

I actually think this is a bad idea. Targeting Warden like this is unfair.
However, considering Warden is about to be reworked, it might be a temporary solution, but it also means that this item will need to be modified again in U51.
Modifying a single item across multiple versions is a waste of resources. Ideally, we could complete the changes to this item in U50, without wasting valuable resources modifying it again in U51.

Agreed, i'm only looking at it from the perspective of sorc and pets. At least right now the devs are targetting what they see as the issue, instead of nerfing pet sorc which has no issues with it.

Overload works with this mythic, which personally I think is a cool, unique interation, but I could also understand if they do something to address the way it's used as unintended.

RaptorRodeoGod · April 23

I'm hoping when Warden and Sorc get reworked they strike a better balance for pets. Right now they're being balanced as both 2 bar and 1 bar abilities, and because of that, red tape/rule breaker conditions are being used for sets instead of properly balancing the abilities themselves.

Whatever is done, I hope it is not more of the same in regards to pet balance.

Tannus15 · April 23

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

RaptorRodeoGod · April 23

Tannus15 wrote: »

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

To add to that, I hope they're able to balance pets in a way that lets them remove the "when you don't have a pet active" condition on things. To be just banned from specific interactions feels bad.

Malyore · April 23

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

To add to that, I hope they're able to balance pets in a way that lets them remove the "when you don't have a pet active" condition on things. To be just banned from specific interactions feels bad.

The same to goes for when things are "when you have a pet active"

I think it's a good idea for both options to bring various things to the table, rather than just either option being excluded.

RaptorRodeoGod · April 23

Malyore wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

To add to that, I hope they're able to balance pets in a way that lets them remove the "when you don't have a pet active" condition on things. To be just banned from specific interactions feels bad.

The same to goes for when things are "when you have a pet active"

I think it's a good idea for both options to bring various things to the table, rather than just either option being excluded.

Fair, but then Necropotence and Unleashed Ritualist would need to be reworked.

I always kind of equated Unleashed Ritualist as the pet version of Deadly Strike, which was why I didn't call out "when you have a pet active" myself

Tannus15 · April 23

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

To add to that, I hope they're able to balance pets in a way that lets them remove the "when you don't have a pet active" condition on things. To be just banned from specific interactions feels bad.

The same to goes for when things are "when you have a pet active"

I think it's a good idea for both options to bring various things to the table, rather than just either option being excluded.

Fair, but then Necropotence and Unleashed Ritualist would need to be reworked.

I always kind of equated Unleashed Ritualist as the pet version of Deadly Strike, which was why I didn't call out "when you have a pet active" myself

Unleashed Ritualist is garbage. You have to subclass into gravelord, daedric summoning and animal companions so it can buff all the pets and blastbones to have it competitive to just using something like tide-born.
On a pure sorc is insanely underwhelming, you're better off just using Julianos.

Malyore · April 23

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

For sorc I'm hoping they clean up all the weird conditions and get some level of consistancy.

Daedric prey affects some things
Class Script affects different things
Beacon of Oblivion affects different things again
I have no idea what interactions Necropotence or Unleashed Ritualist have

It's all weird and hard to work out what works and what doesn't.

To add to that, I hope they're able to balance pets in a way that lets them remove the "when you don't have a pet active" condition on things. To be just banned from specific interactions feels bad.

The same to goes for when things are "when you have a pet active"

I think it's a good idea for both options to bring various things to the table, rather than just either option being excluded.

Fair, but then Necropotence and Unleashed Ritualist would need to be reworked.

I always kind of equated Unleashed Ritualist as the pet version of Deadly Strike, which was why I didn't call out "when you have a pet active" myself

Oh I just meant for passives, less so with gear sets.

sleepy_worm · April 24

Do things like Fire Orb in Infinite Archive still count as pets for the purposes of these anti-pet sets?

NxJoeyD · April 24

I get that people feel that there's excessive hate for Pet Sorcs but if we set feelings aside for a moment and look at what the real complaints are with Sorc pets it's not the lore or identity aspect it's the fundamental mechanics.

So much has changed since ESO launched. Much has changed behind the nature of combat and how effective combat carries out in game. Whether any of us like that or not that's a real truth. That said, any and every class skill sets should seek to perform within the context for the current combat environment.

I agree that having to double slot pets is unfair, I also beleive that having to multi-cast Prey to redirect and control Sorc pets amounts to a "double tax" on Sorcs that isn't really fair given how little damage those pets do.

The reason players hate on pets is because they severely under-perform in the context of what most all other skills in the game deliver. I get people like playing pets but it's pretty factually demonstrated that Sorc pets have a low slot rate. They don't consistently top Logs and they're not a mainstay in PvP, and it's no wonder why.

When Sorcs as a class are notoriously short on raw burst damage, having to carry around a skill line that features skills and passives dedicated toward underperforming pets causes pain points.

If one is going to ask to keep pets or see pets get more love from players then they need to admit that pets are lacking and advocate for the actual full rebuild that they need. Not just bumping up values, not just enabling a one slot summon, but an actual rebuild of the mechanics that sees them delivering on power output or major buff potential that skills in other classes bring.

As it stands now they're little more than body blocks that deal pin prick damage and are incredibly easily mitigated.

It's hard to make a case for Sorc pet lore when Sorcs are more often having to rely on World & Weapon skill lines to fill a build out rather than being able to truly rely on their own Class, or being confined to a primarily HA playstyle .. There's very little build variety in either of those whereas other Classes can go ham build crafting.