Necromancer - with a bullet.

Even the new Class Masteries are bad.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

Look at the result of the poll, they can keep the work they have done for January next year, and right now ZOS is more focused on the class masteries and the werewolf on PTS from what we can see so far.

A forum poll, biased by its very nature, with all of 75 votes ...

It's a statistically significant sample of the playerbase, not just Necromancer mains have a forums account... And the original question said nothing or framed anything in a biased manner to get a favorable vote count for necromancer. The community agrees Necromancer feels the worst to play and needs the most work.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

What is the point of this poll?

1) See if the community agrees.
2) Please provide sources where devs talk specifically to necromancer mains about the order of the reworks, because I have not seen or heard it. The last time we were talked to directly was a year ago, after they pushed class breaking bugs to live despite us repeatedly telling them not to for EVERY WEEK of the PTS, and then they said they would continue to communicate, but again, its been radio silence for a year (source: surprise surprise blastbones and animate blastbones ulti are unusable in pvp now.
3) Draw attention to the lastest PTS where we were advertised this:

but we are getting this:

4) 2 years is a long time to wait for anything of quality to be given to the only class I play. Just because of poor management of resources and Microslop's pursuit of AI garbage, I'm expected to just sit on the sidelines and wait for another 2 years (mind you we've received near nothing except nerf after nerf, bug after bug, since Necromancer's release in 2019, SEVEN YEARS AGO).

So that's the purpose of the poll, to make a very obvious point, SO AT THE VERY LEAST WE, SPECIFICALLY THE NECROMANCERS, GET SOME KIND OF COMMUNICATION FROM THE DEVS THAT THEY HAVE A PLAN AND THERE'S A GOOD REASON TO FORCING US TO WAIT A TOTAL 9 YEARS TO GET QUALITY CHANGES TO THE NECROMANCER. :-)

Look, in life there are choices: you can have it fast, or you can have it good. Which do you want for Necros.

I get it. Necro sucks right now. It really really really sucks. It's by far the jankiest class and it's really unfun to play because of all of its mechanics. And it's gotten hit by one thing after another to try to make it less janky, which only made it feel worse. You will not find a single person on this forum who doesn't think that Necro is in the worst state.

But there's a bit of logic that needs to be put in to the thought process here. The next PTS drops in July, so whichever is the U51 updated Class needs to be done by then. That's giving them about two months to fix whatever Class is coming out then. After that, U52's PTS will drop around September, giving them only about a month after finishing the U51 Class to get the U52 Class out the door.

Necro needs a lot of work. Do you think that they can reasonably turn the mess that is Necro into something amazingly cool in a single month? Especially since before they get to making Necro fun, they need to fix the corpse mechanic and the pet mechanics and reorganize all of the skills?

Ask yourself which you want: a Necro that they shove out the door fast which is still mostly broken but in a different way, or for them to be able to fix each of Necro's major mechanics one at a time so they can give the entire three months of updating to making Necro feel better since the mechanics are already fixed.

I appreciate what you're saying here, and obviously I agree with them taking more time to work on Necromancer, but we have no confirmation from them that this is what they're doing. So it would mean a heck of a lot more if the devs themselves were the ones here reassuring the Necromancer mains that we're not going to just get shafted once again.

I know their actions in advertising at least one fun class mastery for Necromancer, only for the PTS notes to immediately walk it back/revert it to PVE only, do not give me confidence or make me feel good about the future of Necromancers. At the very least, this passive would have given us some reason to continue playing and experimenting with new setups, despite each other class rework being an indirect nerf to our already nerfed, micromanage-heavy, and jank skill lines.

In the simplest possible terms, my plea to ZOS is, please just acknowledge and communicate directly to us Necromancer mains about our grievances and the state of our class, please just tell us you have a plan and this isn't just us getting shafted again.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

A class passive that only works in PvE? Yep, Necro seriously needs some work if stuff like this is even allowed to reach PTS lol. If ZOS is so afraid that people will combo it with Corpse Buster and Detonating Siphon/Avid Boneyard then think of something else for a passive, don't just cut it off entirely from one game mode.

Yeah is it just me or did Necro get the worst Class Masteries for PVP? Compare the one to Amplitude for instance, just a normal old Sorc passive.

Speaking of which I'm fine with saying Sorc is the 2nd most in need of help (really it's Arc in PvP) but sorry, it's beyond absurd to say any class needs it anywhere nearly as bad as Necro.

Really, in my opinion, Necro just needs 1 single other good offensive skill to combine with Blastbones. Sorc at least has 2 with Curse and both Crystal morphs. Yes Colo still rules but Overload aint too shabby. (all pvp here)

So maybe the Sorc voters are talking PvE?

Exactly. The good passives just make necro tankier, which is not what the class needed at all. Necro needs a complete overhaul damage wise, and the class masteries are extremely lackluster. At a bare minimum, we should’ve gotten a proc dot as part of the masteries since necro really needs additional sources of damage.

Not sure why anyone would slot the “damage” masteries in PvP instead of just subclassing to get skills like spec bow or streak.

DestroyerPewnack wrote: »

I don't know what everyone thinks about this, but I feel like instead of class masteries being a temporary fix until all classes get reworked, if they could have just reworked one skill on every class (ideally the spammable or burst ability) and gave it cleave functionality, every class would be playable until they refresh them all.
Edit: I meant strictly for PvE.

Class masteries are not meant to be a temporary fix until all classes ger reworked.

ie fresh reworked classes will have their class masteries, even if they have been refreshed, you can count on it.

I'm a Warden Main so I had to go with that. The Necro definitely drew the short straw. Remove Subclassing, tweak the passives until they're close to the DK and finish the reworks.

Over half the Necro players left the game the day stalking blastbone got removed. And that day I was forced into playing other classes. I had a Necro grand overlord that I was forced to drop because my main source of damage was gone.

Just look at the poll of this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654213/necromancer-skill-stalking-blastbones-vs-grave-lord-039-s-sacrifice/p1

Back then 90% of the players were against the change, and the devs still placed it into the live server resulting at necro players leaving the game, or changing class.

Then the corpse limitation happened last year and skills like the animate blastbone (that was already too expensive) and the scribbing class script to be made close to being useless.

All those changes made to that class, which killed the class, is the reason why the class needs to be refreshed this year so that the gameplay can adapt to that corpse limitation system.

Right now things are unplayable in pvp, if a necro falls on a DK, warden or even sorcerer, the necro is dead. The only two changes that wardens needs right now is a cost on that netch, and the removal of charm. So that refresh can wait until next year.

Warden and arcanist are the paid classes that actually gives you something to play and succeed. Necro is pay to lose and rage.

Even in vengeance campaign the necro skills are trash, the blastbone is still missing, people don't use grave lord sacrifice, and the devs seriously need to stop pushing us to use that skill, and there are no proper crowd control abilities. So necro also needs a big refresh in this campaign too.

CaptainVenom wrote: »

The answer is pretty obvious. I really wish ZOS could swap Warden and Necro and focus on it first.

This is exactly why I made a post in this thread tagging as many devs as possible. That class is dead, and vengeance campaign just restarted and even there, the class is trash.

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

The answer is pretty obvious. I really wish ZOS could swap Warden and Necro and focus on it first.

This is exactly why I made a post in this thread tagging as many devs as possible. That class is dead, and vengeance campaign just restarted and even there, the class is trash.

But - as has been brought up - the rework for whichever Class will drop in U51 needs to be finished by the ned of June.

Knowing how many problems Necro has, not just with it feeling janky, but also the issues with pet mechanics, corpses counting as pets, corpse generation caps, corpse targeting, trying to get the skills shuffled so every line can have things for all roles, removing things like GLS that people hate and making better options from scratch…
Do you really think there is any chance they could fix all of that in a single month? It took them 9 months to teach horses to swim!

Again, do you want a cheap version of Necro’s rework that solves none of their problems and only adds about four new ones, but at least it’s done fast? Or should they use Warden’s rework to plot out how to split the lines, Sorc’s rework to figure out how to deal with pets, Templar’s rework to get some corpse plans figured out… and then three whole months of just trying to fet Necro to not feel like a mess.

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

nightbringer1993 wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

The answer is pretty obvious. I really wish ZOS could swap Warden and Necro and focus on it first.

This is exactly why I made a post in this thread tagging as many devs as possible. That class is dead, and vengeance campaign just restarted and even there, the class is trash.

But - as has been brought up - the rework for whichever Class will drop in U51 needs to be finished by the ned of June.

Knowing how many problems Necro has, not just with it feeling janky, but also the issues with pet mechanics, corpses counting as pets, corpse generation caps, corpse targeting, trying to get the skills shuffled so every line can have things for all roles, removing things like GLS that people hate and making better options from scratch…
Do you really think there is any chance they could fix all of that in a single month? It took them 9 months to teach horses to swim!

Again, do you want a cheap version of Necro’s rework that solves none of their problems and only adds about four new ones, but at least it’s done fast? Or should they use Warden’s rework to plot out how to split the lines, Sorc’s rework to figure out how to deal with pets, Templar’s rework to get some corpse plans figured out… and then three whole months of just trying to fet Necro to not feel like a mess.

I just want them to move the Necro refresh to the end of 2026. End of 2027 is way too late and people paid for that class so they should be given a product that works. Right now the product is not working and is being discriminated.

But that is the point.

U51 hits PTS in July. That class needs to be done by then, which is two months of work… not including the time to get the current fixes from PTS and the new PvP mode set up.
U52, if they keep the cadence where the Q4 patch drops early, will then drop on PTS in September right after the release of U51, meaning there’s a month tops to get that Class done.

So again, can all of Necro’s issues be fixed in one month?

Demanding to get Necro done earlier is saying you want it to be bad. If you want it good, it needs to take its time. You can’t get both.

Necro. I hope they get rid of sacrifice as it's really an unfulfilling skill to use.

I'm also not attached to the corpse mechanic so I'd be fine if they did away with that. I wouldn't even care at this point if they copied arcanist and instead of cruxes we had "souls" appear out of thin air. I don't care lol

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Maybe the 8th Class should've been prioritized? It'll be a while before we get it.

I’ll admit, there is nothing I want from this game more than an 8th Class (Artificer pls). We were averaging a new Class every 3 years since release, so we are definitely due.
However, the refreshes are much more important. That train should not stop for anything short of the literal apocalypse. And even then, keep them coming.

I am still putting this all on Subclassing though. Most Classes were in an ok enough state (necro wasn’t; they needed a lot of love even before the refreshes) that may just have needed number changes before the decision to throw any semblance of balance out the window, and all that did was highlight how bad the balance really was. Two years before any new Combat features - new Class, new Skill lines, new Grimoires - is a long wait, but it’s needed and now that it started, they have to finish it as quick as they can.

I do hope that Class 8 is going to be ready to drop in 2028 though. A new Class will definitely bring a lot of hype, and after a long time of nothing new for Combat, it’ll be a hood idea to go big. I also think it’d be interesting to see how they make a post-refresh Class, considering the previous DLC Class lines were very delineated by role, but they’ve said the goal now is to change them to thematic lines that have skills for everyone (so the three current DLC Classes will be interesting to see how they shuffle to get e.g. DPS plants or tanking animals). Not to mention the new Class would then need to come with Class Sets and Class Finesse script and Class Mastery passives.

I don’t believe that Necro will be buffed this patch, but if patch 51 doesn’t bring any necro buff, I believe I will stop playing and stop eso+.
I don’t want to witness everyone using this warden class I hate.

Forcing people into other classes is not acceptable, especially when your own class is a payable class.

While I see that the Necromancer is in the a sorry state I certainly agree with tomofhyrule that for this very reason it should be one of the last to updated. Perhaps it's better to tackle the easier classes first.

I also think that the experience gained by updating the other classes hopefully will lead to a much better Necromancer.