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April 20th Vengeance Only..
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LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vengeance has been confirmed to be coming as a permanent feature alongside GH with update 50, and they've even gone as far as making a large number of the "rewards" offered through the new PVP progression system vengeance-specific.
Still can't help but believe this is a terrible misstep in what is otherwise a stellar year for the studio. I've seen some people in favor of vengeance, but far more seem opposed, especially within the PVP community itself. As far as population goes, the last vengeance test was practically dead on PC NA after the first night, with GH having more players on it every single evening even when considering the different population caps.
I find myself wishing they'd have scrapped this altogether and focused their PVP-related efforts on improving the existing content, as well as further developing the upcoming mid-size zone and reward system.
Couldn't agree with this more - including how the studio is kiling it this year thus far.
Inside the PvP community the vast majority of players dislike vengence, even including the performance gain.
I think Veng is an awesome camp as an "Intro to Cyrodiil" kind of camp... but I don't expect it to be pop locked much if at all and Grayhost will still be the true PvP.
It's a shame they are trying to incentivice it filling up by making the rewards isolated to Veng. Using FOMO to drive playercount numbers was what the "previous admin" tried to do and the current admin is stepping away from... why are we pushing this for the pvp community.
I'd like to see new things like different types of siege (ladders, oils on ladders, trojan horse.. just let the dev cook up some fun ideas) that have little to no performance impact. Make Cyrodiil interesting and spice it up a bit... give DC some bridges finally... etc etc.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.2 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its not just that they disable Grey Host in that week once more, but also with Update 50 and the big PvP reward system, the first 30!!!! ranks are basically Vengeance only rewards. They keep forcing it onto us, they do not listen, that the majority of PvP players do not want Vengeance. Its just PvE people liking it, because then they can just jump in, change nothing and be good at it.
When Vengeance PvE rules for Trifecta btw? I don't want to change my build for that and I expect to be able to do it with absolutely no effort, thank you.
This.
I honestly think their analytics were skewed by PvE people. Surely they compared peoples PvP timeplayers when looking at the results too... right......r...i..g...h..t...?LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.4 -
Maximus_Mordred✭✭✭Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.Edited by Maximus_Mordred on April 19, 2026 3:38PM11 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
3 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭Its not just that they disable Grey Host in that week once more, but also with Update 50 and the big PvP reward system, the first 30!!!! ranks are basically Vengeance only rewards. They keep forcing it onto us, they do not listen, that the majority of PvP players do not want Vengeance. Its just PvE people liking it, because then they can just jump in, change nothing and be good at it.
When Vengeance PvE rules for Trifecta btw? I don't want to change my build for that and I expect to be able to do it with absolutely no effort, thank you.
This.
I honestly think their analytics were skewed by PvE people. Surely they compared peoples PvP timeplayers when looking at the results too... right......r...i..g...h..t...?
The only analytics that matter to ZOS are the profit related metrics. And vengeance is far less expensive to maintain than the game ZOS originally created. The problem is vengeance will not last. The PvE community won't play it long term and the vast majority PvP community won't touch vengeance ever again. Vengeance will fail and ZOS will replace Grey Host with a single keep map and call it a good day. ...and I bet there are still people at ZOS that don't understand why such a large portion of their player base isn't happy with them anymore.2 -
Maximus_Mordred✭✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
LOL, I've been pvping in cyro since 2015 and am grand overlord. But nice try at reading the situation anyway. Enjoy your time off.6 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭Maximus_Mordred wrote: »ToddIngram wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
LOL, I've been pvping in cyro since 2015 and am grand overlord. But nice try at reading the situation anyway. Enjoy your time off.
After 11 years in Cyrodiil you only have one GO? When one of my toons makes GO I swap to a new toon and start anew, usually on a new class so I can learn to play a different class.
Edited by ToddIngram on April 19, 2026 4:02PM1 -
xR3ACTORx✭✭✭✭Maximus_Mordred wrote: »ToddIngram wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
LOL, I've been pvping in cyro since 2015 and am grand overlord. But nice try at reading the situation anyway. Enjoy your time off.
Sorry to tell you, but being grand overlord means absolutely nothing since everyone can become 5 star sweat lord with the right sets.4 -
Kaelvorn_Stormrend✭✭✭✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
Sorry, but if you truly think that it's only PvE players that are waiting for Vengeance then you're sorely mistaken. I've been playing in Cyro for years, been through all of the best and worst metas, nerfs and buffs and GH is in a terrible state at the moment. I'm not going to sit here and say Vengeance should be the only campaign, it should be separate from GH in my opinion, but let's not sit here and pretend it's JUST the PvE community play testing this server.PS5 - NANecro Main10 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭Yeah, there are also a lot of PvP players that would choose Vengeance over GH. I am going to probably just switch to Vengeance, as well. GH's neverending meta chase will not be any better. I am so bored everyone instantly playing the most absurd builds every patch and everyone same build more or less. And that builds can do everything, never sacrificing a single thing. I am looking forward to some sane PvP again in ESO.9
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SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Will there ever be a point in time when the vengeance crowd doesn’t scream about toxicity while spreading toxicity?
The request is simple, stop closing GH for Vengeance “tests”. There are many many people who do not wish to be a lab rat anymore."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations11 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »Maximus_Mordred wrote: »Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Speak for yourself, after the endless years of nonstop ballgroups and bombers destroying PvP for all but the biggest sweatlords I am so looking forward to this.
Seeing the angry little forum bubble throwing a tantrum when they can't get carried by their sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give themselves a fragile sense of power and superiority over others is never not music to my ears. The fact is that they have never, at any point represented the majority of PvPers. If ZOS did literally the exact polar opposite of what the chronically online "PvP" population here demanded then Cyrodiil today would be a much better place.
Not many times I support ZOS' stance on PvP but got to say, this is one of them.
As one of those PvP players who "throws a tantrum when I can't get carried by my sets to crush PvErs and clueless zergs to give myself a fragile sense of power and superiority over others" I will be taking vengeance week off. You see, I'm not a fan of the toxic PvE community that continuously make statements like the one from you I've quoted.
I've put in the time to be good at live Cyrodiil PvP. I'm not going to help ZOS throw all my years of time and effort into the trash bin.
Sorry, but if you truly think that it's only PvE players that are waiting for Vengeance then you're sorely mistaken. I've been playing in Cyro for years, been through all of the best and worst metas, nerfs and buffs and GH is in a terrible state at the moment. I'm not going to sit here and say Vengeance should be the only campaign, it should be separate from GH in my opinion, but let's not sit here and pretend it's JUST the PvE community play testing this server.
Less than 1 in 5 PvP mains will play vengeance. If you take a poll of PvP mains you'll see this is the case. And we all saw the last "test" when people had a choice between GH and vengeance, GH was pop locked while vengeance had one bar or less. We all know that the one bar vengeance does not equal one bar GH, but the fact is when people have a choice, vengeance is deserted while GH is pop locked. If people are being honest, this is why ZOS is removing GH as an option this time around in an effort to artificially inflate participation numbers just like they did for the first "test".
Vengeance is a fail by every measure. No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.
Edited by ToddIngram on April 20, 2026 3:07AM5 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭Will there ever be a point in time when the vengeance crowd doesn’t scream about toxicity while spreading toxicity?
The request is simple, stop closing GH for Vengeance “tests”. There are many many people who do not wish to be a lab rat anymore.
It's not a test if they have to shut down their main campaign to get enough people to play their new one.8 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this the last test before we can move from Greyhost permanently? I sure hope so.6 -
albertberku✭✭✭✭
Even if that would be the case now (and i am not saying it is), Vengeance will still have a better future than GH. Vengeance may be picked up by new players. Do you see any possibility that any new player would play GH and say "Oh, PvP is very interesting in this game. Let me try it for a while" ? And also players wont be like "Ok, i learned PvP in Vengeance and lets move to GH and have a challenge!". They will most probably just stay in Vengeance and never set foot on GH with Vengeance having their own PvP veterans.ToddIngram wrote: »Less than 1 in 5 PvP mains will play vengeance. If you take a poll of PvP mains you'll see this is the case.
GH and Vengeance are quite different game modes with different gameplay right now. GH is being very tedious even for the players that are playing in Cyrodiil since years. I dont think any new player will enjoy getting hit by 6 different abilities (each 5k - 10k+ at death recap) from someone outside your screen at the same time without a single animation playing the moment they set foot on Cyrodiil. GH will never grow in population. It has shrinked last years and it will just continue to shrink. Because some people are going to leave like every game and game mode and when you have no new players to replace them you can do the math.
It is not really about being veteran or being skilled, etc. That doesnt really have to translate to chaotic gameplay GH has. GW2 has much slower and strategic combat, there are PvP veterans there, as well. Just a different kind of gameplay.Edited by albertberku on April 20, 2026 7:29AM5 -
xR3ACTORx✭✭✭✭albertberku wrote: »
Even if that would be the case now (and i am not saying it is), Vengeance will still have a better future than GH. Vengeance may be picked up by new players.ToddIngram wrote: »Less than 1 in 5 PvP mains will play vengeance. If you take a poll of PvP mains you'll see this is the case.
Which new players? The player numbers are in decline for a while now.Edited by xR3ACTORx on April 20, 2026 9:06AM0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ive pvped since 2014 and I think Vengeance is better pvpmode then the "normal" pvp you see in cyrodiil these days, its 99.9% about what sets you use and what class you are, very little about skill. Vengeance is mostly about skill.
PC EU
PvP only4 -
Maximus_Mordred✭✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »Less than 1 in 5 PvP mains will play vengeance. If you take a poll of PvP mains you'll see this is the case.
Correction: "Less than 1 in 5 PvP forum mains will play vengeance. ". If you sample from forum PvPers, you will get the responses of only forum PvPers, which as should be obvious by now, are not even vaguely representative of the actual PvP or PvE populations. This not only doesn't prove what you want it to prove, but also validates the disconnect further.ToddIngram wrote: »And we all saw the last "test" when people had a choice between GH and vengeance, GH was pop locked while vengeance had one bar or less.
It's truly wondrous that Vengeance was so terrible it managed to break ESO's rendering, upload the new icon to Zenimax servers, and drop to 0 bars! Or perhaps it was -1 bars?ToddIngram wrote: »the fact is when people have a choice, vengeance is deserted while GH is pop locked
You would have had a point here if ZOS hadn't spent the last years silently collapsing the population limit as the PvP population dwindled. A third of a jug still holds more water than a full shot glass. Besides, who has the "choice"? Casual gamers have a practically infinite range of activities to do, and Vengeance is only one of them. They can't be faulted for not living in the new game mode simply for it having the virtue of not being an insufferable AP grinder of ballgroups and bombers.ToddIngram wrote: »this is why ZOS is removing GH as an option this time around in an effort to artificially inflate participation numbers
And yet if PvPers server-wide dislike Vengeance as much as you claim, then they would not go to Vengeance anyway, as you don't, and retire for a week. And if the PvErs dislike or at best tolerate Vengeance, why would deleting GH (which they hate even more) suddenly encourage them to go Vengeance? Those are independent events from a PvEr's perspective. So by your logic, it should be deserted. Then can you explain to me why I was sitting in population queues in the hundreds the last time I queued?
Or of course, if the conclusion is wrong, perhaps we need to look at the assumptions behind it.ToddIngram wrote: »No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.
Pot, meet kettle.Edited by Maximus_Mordred on April 20, 2026 10:03AM7 -
Poss✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imagine the uproar from the PvE community if the ability to create writs was disabled for a week or guild traders were suspended. There are people who play this game solely for GH and they can’t play the game.
I’m not a fan of Vengeance, I find the gameplay stale and boring but I’ve already accepted that it’s coming to the game. Play whichever mode you want. I couldn’t care less.
But constantly closing down a gamemode purposely to shoehorn people into testing a new gamemode isn’t fair. I refuse to beta test something that’s 11 years old.11 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imagine the uproar from the PvE community if the ability to create writs was disabled for a week or guild traders were suspended. There are people who play this game solely for GH and they can’t play the game.
Making gold isn't just a PVE thing though, maybe it isn't a you thing and that is fine. Ideally they would have done this test during MYM/Whitestrakes and keep other campaigns open to test the load. I'd prefer to have GH open along side this test, as that is the plan. They want to force as many testers/stress on the campaign as they can.
Regardless hopefully this will be the last time it is needed and we will get to take some stress off the GH queues, and maybe some casual pvpers will actually be able to join and enjoy Cyrodiil. Waiting a 30mins to two hours is not realistic for most players. You don't like it, we get it. Most of us don't like GH ball groups and cheaters either, not that it will stop cheating in other campaigns.
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Jaavaa✭✭✭✭✭Don’t be sad. U can zerg down everything in Vegeance like u do it in GH. No chances for u except your Shielders are away and u get zerged too.2 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ToddIngram wrote: »Its not just that they disable Grey Host in that week once more, but also with Update 50 and the big PvP reward system, the first 30!!!! ranks are basically Vengeance only rewards. They keep forcing it onto us, they do not listen, that the majority of PvP players do not want Vengeance. Its just PvE people liking it, because then they can just jump in, change nothing and be good at it.
When Vengeance PvE rules for Trifecta btw? I don't want to change my build for that and I expect to be able to do it with absolutely no effort, thank you.
This.
I honestly think their analytics were skewed by PvE people. Surely they compared peoples PvP timeplayers when looking at the results too... right......r...i..g...h..t...?
The only analytics that matter to ZOS are the profit related metrics. And vengeance is far less expensive to maintain than the game ZOS originally created. The problem is vengeance will not last. The PvE community won't play it long term and the vast majority PvP community won't touch vengeance ever again. Vengeance will fail and ZOS will replace Grey Host with a single keep map and call it a good day. ...and I bet there are still people at ZOS that don't understand why such a large portion of their player base isn't happy with them anymore.
Strongly disagree. Thinking objectivley, I can't begin to image the payroll alone ZoS has spent on trying to fix Cyrodiil. While I don't think Veng will have the playerbase that they are hoping for (once things level out and people get their rewards from it), I do think Veng is the PERFECT entry to Cyrodiil camp. Sure, there will be a handfull of people from Grayhost that go over there because they run solo, find GH to sweaty, etc, but I assume the vast majority of people who have been sticking it out in GH since.... ages ago... will still be in GH. I don't expect Veng to be poplocked.. or even remotley full to be honest.
Going to a one keep map.. with ball groups from all factions... etc.. etc.. I'd have to see this play out. My first though is who thought of this and... why are we doing this... but I try to be open to new ideas. Maybe this will be the most bad ass one keep non stop fights pure chaos we all have been waiting for.. maybe it's a total disaster.. no idea.
I do think if they announced it though the pushback would be brutal and people wouldn't really give it a chance so... I'd be shocked if they pushed forward with this.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.4 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭During its last appearance on PCNA, Vengeance suffered the same issue that plagued and ultimately defeated no proc PVP: As soon as the populations reach a certain level of imbalance, it becomes impossible to play against massive numbers as an underdog.-
Tri-faction tryhard but mainly EP in Gray Host lately (PC/NA)
- DISCARNATE - Tertiary Meat - @ Kartalin - Youtube
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LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭During its last appearance on PCNA, Vengeance suffered the same issue that plagued and ultimately defeated no proc PVP: As soon as the populations reach a certain level of imbalance, it becomes impossible to play against massive numbers as an underdog.
Yeah during my playtests the limited build options forces the entire camp into a numbers game. Whoever has the higher pop in one area wins - which isn't fun.
A zerg fest just stinks.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.6 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭A zerg fest just stinks.
That is what Cyrodiil is, I'm not sure how they can balance sides well. It seems like each faction has alternating player bases on different sides of the world that dominate when there isn't a two hour queue. I have zero interest in chasing one or two people around a tower for a half hour, playing tag. I find the siege defense the most fun personally.
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BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭.Maximus_Mordred wrote: »ToddIngram wrote: »No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.
Pot, meet kettle.
if greyhost is the pot, ironically vengeance is a very small kettle. A minority, of a minority trying to attract a majority (PvE) that despises competitive play in the first place.
Whoever thought it a good idea to attempt to make pvp more competitive and balanced by stripping everything the game's been known for, to appease people who hate everything about competitive play... really needs to be studied. Especially since all they actually did was make it a numbers game zerg fest even more than Greyhost ever was.
The only people who will stay in vengeance long term are the same ones who occupy the now dead ravenwatch, BR and below 50 campaigns. Jaded bitter pvpers that just wanna zerg, and pvers that just want their tier 3 rewards.
Edited by BardokRedSnow on April 20, 2026 2:08PMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...5 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »The only people who will stay in vengeance long term are the same ones who occupy the now dead ravenwatch, BR and below 50 campaigns. Jaded bitter pvpers that just wanna zerg, and pvers that just want their tier 3 rewards.
One of my guilds farms AP or Tel Var every night basically, GH isn't feasible due to the queue times so they go to RW usually. I'm guessing vengeance will be the only option in the future maybe. They are not jaded and I actually enjoy running with them as a casual. During MYM I amassed millions of AP and we got multiple Emperors. They/we have FUN, and as someone who never thought they would unlock the emperor dyes, did.
Edited by Orbital78 on April 20, 2026 2:53PM0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: ».Maximus_Mordred wrote: »ToddIngram wrote: »No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.
Pot, meet kettle.
if greyhost is the pot, ironically vengeance is a very small kettle. A minority, of a minority trying to attract a majority (PvE) that despises competitive play in the first place.
Whoever thought it a good idea to attempt to make pvp more competitive and balanced by stripping everything the game's been known for, to appease people who hate everything about competitive play... really needs to be studied. Especially since all they actually did was make it a numbers game zerg fest even more than Greyhost ever was.
The only people who will stay in vengeance long term are the same ones who occupy the now dead ravenwatch, BR and below 50 campaigns. Jaded bitter pvpers that just wanna zerg, and pvers that just want their tier 3 rewards.
This.
I do, however, think Veng is the ideal under 50/entry to PvP campaign.
Will it be packed, probally not, which is probally why they are putting some FOMO rewards attached to it to hopefully drive player pop.
I do appreciate that this camp gives people who hate ball groups, sweaties, gankers, etc, a place to "chill" or people who want to learn the ropes of cyrodiil a place to start without getting demolished, but I don't think this camp will ever be as full as GH or compettitive as GH.LadyGP/xCatGuy
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