Dk questionable change

BattleAxe · April 13

So removing damage done from molten whip and flame lash this seems like it will be a damage loss. Also what is the point of stacks on molten whip now or will it/can it just be an execute ability now?

YandereGirlfriend · April 13

The lost damage from the stacks should, at the very least, be baked back into the damage of the actual ability.

So while your global damage is reduced, at least your Whip damage remains the same.

Malprave · April 13

This feels really bad. I can’t believe how much weaker my dk is than it is currently on live, with the class mastery! My enthusiasm for playing my dk that I rolled in 2014 was greatly increased by the class refresh. This just took the wind out of my sails completely. And to think I actually rolled and leveled a second dk for this. Throw in a nerf to Velothi and this is so bad. Wow.

MashmalloMan · April 13

It was only added last minute during the PTS as a bandaid since pure DK wasn't performing as well as they hoped. It was purposely inflated as per their notes as a stop gap until they figured out a better solution. The implementation brought about concerns as to how exactly it improves pure DK when it only required base DK, aka, people were still subclassing which defeats the purpose of the class refresh. It also disproportionately gave Ardent Flame much more power than Earthen Heart or Draconic Power despite the design intent shifting to making all 3 lines good for all roles. Suffice it to say, everyone knew it wasn't going to stay long term.

After U49, Gilliam during the dev stream said he had been working on the Masteries for 3 weeks straight which puts it shortly after the implementation of the DK damage done whip changes.

Stands to reason if it was inflated and considered temporary, added last minute, intended to promote pure classing, and functionally has a worse implementation than that of what Class Masteries do, it was always intended to be replaced.

Whip and Lash are the strongest spammables in the game right now, they don't need the damage done multipliers to compete.

If you were subclassing, sorry, but yeah you're losing some power, that's intended long term.

If you were pure classing, you'll more than make up for it via Inexorable Descent's +10% damage done and Wildfire Embers unique stacking dot.

Malprave · April 13

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It was only added last minute during the PTS as a bandaid since pure DK wasn't performing as well as they hoped. It was purposely inflated as per their notes as a stop gap until they figured out a better solution. The implementation brought about concerns as to how exactly it improves pure DK when it only required base DK, aka, people were still subclassing which defeats the purpose of the class refresh. It also disproportionately gave Ardent Flame much more power than Earthen Heart or Draconic Power despite the design intent shifting to making all 3 lines good for all roles. Suffice it to say, everyone knew it wasn't going to stay long term.

After U49, Gilliam during the dev stream said he had been working on the Masteries for 3 weeks straight which puts it shortly after the implementation of the DK damage done whip changes.

Stands to reason if it was inflated and considered temporary, added last minute, intended to promote pure classing, and functionally has a worse implementation than that of what Class Masteries do, it was always intended to be replaced.

Whip and Lash are the strongest spammables in the game right now, they don't need the damage done multipliers to compete.

If you were subclassing, sorry, but yeah you're losing some power, that's intended long term.

If you were pure classing, you'll more than make up for it via Inexorable Descent's +10% damage done and Wildfire Embers unique stacking dot.

Pure class dk. And, no, they don’t make up for the loss of the stacking damage bonus. Not for me. Maybe the top players in the game will somehow come out ahead here, not me. They want to know what feels bad? This feels bad!

BattleAxe · April 13

Molten whip used to give weapon spell fog prior to damage done at least they can bring that aspect of molten whip back. The flame lash damage done was expected not to stay.

Flame lash remains aoe with heal while molten whip gets weapon/spell dmg back or single target execute

BattleAxe · April 13

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It was only added last minute during the PTS as a bandaid since pure DK wasn't performing as well as they hoped. It was purposely inflated as per their notes as a stop gap until they figured out a better solution. The implementation brought about concerns as to how exactly it improves pure DK when it only required base DK, aka, people were still subclassing which defeats the purpose of the class refresh. It also disproportionately gave Ardent Flame much more power than Earthen Heart or Draconic Power despite the design intent shifting to making all 3 lines good for all roles. Suffice it to say, everyone knew it wasn't going to stay long term.

After U49, Gilliam during the dev stream said he had been working on the Masteries for 3 weeks straight which puts it shortly after the implementation of the DK damage done whip changes.

Stands to reason if it was inflated and considered temporary, added last minute, intended to promote pure classing, and functionally has a worse implementation than that of what Class Masteries do, it was always intended to be replaced.

Whip and Lash are the strongest spammables in the game right now, they don't need the damage done multipliers to compete.

If you were subclassing, sorry, but yeah you're losing some power, that's intended long term.

If you were pure classing, you'll more than make up for it via Inexorable Descent's +10% damage done and Wildfire Embers unique stacking dot.

Molten whip had wpn/spell dmg before the refresh the damage done was wut it was changed to and then added to flame lash to make morphs comparable to each other. As I stated before.

Molten whip: either bring back stacking won/spell dmg or turn it into an execute ability that helps build landslide stacks quicker.

Flame lash needs can also generate landslide stacks as well I guess

Malprave · April 13

I restrained myself from going into a Chevy Chase Christmas Vacation style epic rant and went back on the test server. This still feels bad. Not as bad as I initially thought but what’s happening is I’m winding up in the exact same place I was. With my whip setup and my dragon breath setup. I’m already giving up some damage running these versus my beam builds. Now I need class masteries just to not give up more? I thought these were supposed to help close that gap? After a second assessment this still feels bad.

guarstompemoji · April 14

I'm hearing folks feel down as well. In part, it's also due to the changes/relearning lines, and so on.

Altering the passives once again changes gameplay. That's a concern, beyond the damage shift.

Malprave · April 14

guarstompemoji wrote: »

I'm hearing folks feel down as well. In part, it's also due to the changes/relearning lines, and so on.

Altering the passives once again changes gameplay. That's a concern, beyond the damage shift.

Is this an AI response? What is this? An attempt to derail the discussion or cloud the issue?
This has nothing to do with relearning lines or passive changes. They took the stacking bonus to damage done out of molten whip.
All the new class masteries do now on the dk is bring the damage right back to where it was.

Rhaegar75 · April 14

hey guys, anyone tested Pyrebrand in the PTS? Still viable?

Cominfordatoothbrush · April 14

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

hey guys, anyone tested Pyrebrand in the PTS? Still viable?

Edit: I'm having an issue uploading the image, but I've seen 177k from Geldis in pyrebrand, who was posting about 166k on live with pure dk. Pyrebrand itself doing about 14k dps

Edit edit: ok got it to upload

guarstompemoji · April 14

Changing passives and how skills work affects gameplay and how you put your build together. I mean, it does less damage, it gets used less. Builds have to change bc well. It's less dmg. That's build and change fatigue.

This is supporting what folks are concerned about. Shoot.

Nope, not ai. Gotta learn what's human and what ain't these days, I guess. Idk, it'd take more effort to use some LLM and sort through that mess than type something.

salander7 · April 15

Do us a favour and save us 2 years of change fatigue every 3 months, just go ahead and delete subclassing straight. You'll also be spared of having to balance things.

It was fun having a lot of options for 10 skills slots, but I guess it's time to go back for half of the skills in our class lines to be useless for our role.

We all know subclassing was a questionable idea, but since people got used to it, taking it back is gonna feel even worse. Reworking every class with extra attempts to make people ditch subclassing will either make powercreep worse.

Chuaznega · April 15

salander7 wrote: »

Do us a favour and save us 2 years of change fatigue every 3 months, just go ahead and delete subclassing straight. You'll also be spared of having to balance things.

It was fun having a lot of options for 10 skills slots, but I guess it's time to go back for half of the skills in our class lines to be useless for our role.

We all know subclassing was a questionable idea, but since people got used to it, taking it back is gonna feel even worse. Reworking every class with extra attempts to make people ditch subclassing will either make powercreep worse.

I agree, subclasses are simply something that shouldn't exist in ESO; they completely remove the identity of the classes that have always been the basis of the game.

Everything becomes so mixed up and confusing. It's already relatively difficult (time-consuming would be the correct word) to make a decent build (without looking at a guide) with the base classes, so mixing in subclasses is simply too much to manage.

I know many people left the game after the subclasses, but now unfortunately I think it's too late because many people use them – just because it's better. So if they buff the skills of the base classes to compare with current subclass builds and remove the subclasses entirely, I imagine no one will be able to complain, but they will anyway.