All changes done to Oakensoul and Tri-focus back in 2022/2023 should be reverted to make that mythic and lightning staves return to a competitive state.
I've seen this suggestion multiple times by many different players.
I wholeheartedly support this.

The PvP situation never got fixed though. I wonder if the 2nd tick could also do AoE damage as a compromise? Enough time to see that someone’s HAing (as opposed to the first tick) and get out of there but a buff for the HA.

Or just consider PvP zone PvE enemies to be players somehow, so the damage reduction carries over.

Soarora wrote: »

The PvP situation never got fixed though. I wonder if the 2nd tick could also do AoE damage as a compromise? Enough time to see that someone’s HAing (as opposed to the first tick) and get out of there but a buff for the HA.

Or just consider PvP zone PvE enemies to be players somehow, so the damage reduction carries over.

they could just disable the tri focus passive in pvp while battlespirit is active.

I always wondered why they didn't fix the pvp issue by giving the tri-focus cleave damage an "against monsters" modifier or something. Like, several of the new DK skills have different damage modifiers against monsters vs. players now iirc so maybe it's time to revisit that whole issue and restore the cleave damage in pve, at least.

I agree. Although, I'd be happier if they returned Oakensoul to the original strength. Considering the class reworks and class mastery that's coming, I think one-bar builds deserve some love too.

ADarklore wrote: »

I agree. Although, I'd be happier if they returned Oakensoul to the original strength. Considering the class reworks and class mastery that's coming, I think one-bar builds deserve some love too.

TBH at this point I don't remember what was removed. Major Courage, Berserk, and Heroism? IMO Rakkhat's Voidmantle could use a little love as well, tacking empower on it would help. I think it should give some magicka back as well.

+1 on this

Yeah, the old style cleave would be good. That it would do cleave damage during channel, too.

ST damage-wise I think HA builds are good enough. Not the best but you can complete a lot of content with a good 2bar HA build.

Oakensoul is in a good place at the moment. Good enough for those who need it, but easily outranked if you are willing and able to do a bit more.

The only thing where HA builds and Oakensoul HA builds are lacking is cleave. Spending so much time in channel with very little benefit if there are multiple enemies is a bit of a problem. So the old cleave while channel would do good.

Of course HA builds should not compete with actual 2 actions per second LA-weaving builds but because of the cleave nerf they are now lacking way too much behind.

The cleave could return, but it doesnt change the fact that will mean, yet again 1 weapon will vastly outperform all other weapons in a heavy attack build.

But wanting the oakensoul nerf reverted is just disgusting.
Pre nerf oaken is the most op item ever released.

Peoole where doing vAS+2 with 1 tank and 11 oakensorcs and getting immortal redeemer every single run.

People who want oaken buffed complain that subclass builds is so far ahead, (only a handful of builds is) in dps. And still demand dps comparable to trial dummy specific setups using highland sentinel and null arca.

Completely neglecting that oakensoul also turns you into a ranged tank, with unlimited sustain, barely amy APM,and absurd survivability, while subclass builds drops every single defensive buff, speccing into pure damage to be able to do these numbers.

Even the new dk, a breath build will Not vastly outperform a HA build, ive tried hyperioxes breath build, if you are hyper u can parse 138k on it, my best was 127k, usually around 120-125k on a trial dummy in melee range. HA builds can easily compete with this, the whip builds can hit higher, but are much harder to play, not many can perform top dps on this in actual content, and if u go molten whip theres very little cleave. Not to mention in actual 4 man content u cant use trial dummy setups, since DK's does not have herald of the tomr and struggle with getting 7k pen.

The upcomming class masteries will also benefit HA builds. Which will further increase its power, ill give a example, nightlade one, +25% crit crit damage, while also increasing cap by 35%, and people expect to be able to run around with major force with this?

Asking for permanent major berserk, heroism, force, protection and courage, while still be immortal, i dont even know what to say. Oakenbuilds will go back to shitting on any player not pulling top end dps again with 0 effort, a meta we should never go back to, we might finally get rid of arca meta after the class refreshes. Ending back in the moSt braindead and OP meta this game have ever seen i never want to see happen again.

2 bar HA or rhakat builds can be more difficult to play, just as difficult as a regular 2 bar.

But that has nothing to do with oakensoul, a oaken HA build is the least effort build u can possibly imagine. vAS+2 was just an example, it might be old, but even now with subclassing groups can struggle with immortal redeemer, so it's a great example. But back then it was *** easy, so was things like unchained, and every trial/dungeon was crammed full of as many oakensorcs as the game would let u. You cut down on as many supports as possoble, since the ring allready gave all the buffs and oakensorcs never died

Its a game not a job yes, its also an MMO, and a common theme of mmo's, is some effort to have balance.

I agree they lack some burst but this should be fixed with skills and abilities, not cramming every single rare buff into 1 item.

For all we know, the upcomming pure class masteries enda up giving the final burst thats missing

Renato90085 wrote: »

but if zos do this, is oaken HA still a solo bis mystic?

bis? When was oakensoul bis in solo? Ok, HA Oakensorc used to be pretty good before the nerfs, but bis... nah.

I honestly doubt there’s anyone who loves HA builds more than I do. I’ll defend HA players and keep playing this way no matter what, even if it eventually costs me a permanent in-game ban. And honestly, I believe that could happen.

But the reality is this: ZoS will never bring HA back to its former state. And the reason is simple.

1. Most players don’t understand that HA builds are only stronger than traditional 2bar weaving builds when the player isn’t good at weaving. That’s the key point. Instead of improving, many players complain loudly, and because they’re the majority voice, ZoS listens. As a result, HA gets nerfed or ignored.
2. At the same time, many 2bar players refuse to accept that HA can outperform them in certain situations. Instead of recognizing the skill gap or different playstyles, they dismiss HA entirely. And that creates this constant hostility.

The bigger problem is that ESO doesn’t feel like a game about fun anymore, it’s turned into a numbers race focused entirely on DPS. Even ZoS pushes players toward perfect weaving instead of supporting different playstyles. In the end, you’re expected to play “correctly,” not creatively or in a way that you actually enjoy.
And that’s exactly why builds like Oakensoul struggle in high-end content like Cloudrest HM. If that’s not the reason, if it’s not this bias against simpler or alternative playstyles, then what is? Why shouldn’t 12 Oakensoul players have the same opportunity to complete vCR HM?

• It really feels like ZoS has something against HA players. First they changed Oakensoul, then they nerfed HA, and now HA don’t even function the way they used to. They no longer trigger consistently like before, and a lot of the time, they don’t trigger at all. ZoS did all this, not players!

Meanwhile, a lot of 2bar players seem to resent anything that’s easier, more accessible, or capable of competitive DPS, whether that’s Oakensoul, Rakkhat's, HA builds... But that resentment often comes from insecurity more than balance.

In the end, I don’t see this changing.
It’s just not going to happen.
ZoS doesn’t want this, and the majority of 2bar players don’t want it either. They all believe that playing worse, with lower DPS, is somehow better for the game.

The current problem with heavy attack builds isn´t their powerscaling, I think the difference between one bar/heavy attack builds and 2 bar builds is in a good spot. The problem is that only one weapon type is viable for those kind of builds. Make other weapon types viable and it´s fine.

Athory wrote: »

I honestly doubt there’s anyone who loves HA builds more than I do. I’ll defend HA players and keep playing this way no matter what, even if it eventually costs me a permanent in-game ban. And honestly, I believe that could happen.

But the reality is this: ZoS will never bring HA back to its former state. And the reason is simple.

1. Most players don’t understand that HA builds are only stronger than traditional 2bar weaving builds when the player isn’t good at weaving. That’s the key point. Instead of improving, many players complain loudly, and because they’re the majority voice, ZoS listens. As a result, HA gets nerfed or ignored.
2. At the same time, many 2bar players refuse to accept that HA can outperform them in certain situations. Instead of recognizing the skill gap or different playstyles, they dismiss HA entirely. And that creates this constant hostility.

The bigger problem is that ESO doesn’t feel like a game about fun anymore, it’s turned into a numbers race focused entirely on DPS. Even ZoS pushes players toward perfect weaving instead of supporting different playstyles. In the end, you’re expected to play “correctly,” not creatively or in a way that you actually enjoy.
And that’s exactly why builds like Oakensoul struggle in high-end content like Cloudrest HM. If that’s not the reason, if it’s not this bias against simpler or alternative playstyles, then what is? Why shouldn’t 12 Oakensoul players have the same opportunity to complete vCR HM?

• It really feels like ZoS has something against HA players. First they changed Oakensoul, then they nerfed HA, and now HA don’t even function the way they used to. They no longer trigger consistently like before, and a lot of the time, they don’t trigger at all. ZoS did all this, not players!

Meanwhile, a lot of 2bar players seem to resent anything that’s easier, more accessible, or capable of competitive DPS, whether that’s Oakensoul, Rakkhat's, HA builds... But that resentment often comes from insecurity more than balance.

In the end, I don’t see this changing.
It’s just not going to happen.
ZoS doesn’t want this, and the majority of 2bar players don’t want it either. They all believe that playing worse, with lower DPS, is somehow better for the game.

Spot on. There is almost no diversity of any kind regarding builds and playstyles now. Gear either. Subclassing is a huge factor in this, but it is not all of it. The Devs are smart to realize what a mess has unfolded since these deeply unpopular changes were forced on us.

I really wish they would find a way to include in game surveys to reach more of the Eso population, not just a test server that only exists on PC or the very small pond of meta chasers that are scared of losing their leaderboards. Or too lazy to do mechs and think Dps is the only thing that matters in this game. It is not.

It seems like they are heading in a better direction, but we aren't quite there yet. I hope, as the rest of our guilds do that more people begin to speak out about this.

We need change, big ones now because of the mess we are in. We lost so many people because of the broken state of combat. So many ten year veterans crying while they emptied their craft bags and left the game. Then there's the other part, the prog groups that started fighting and broke the guilds up over Subclassing because everyone's characters were sawed off at the knees. People who will only now do housing and casinos because they can't be their characters anymore. Frustrated GMs like me who have to constantly put out fires because the disparity between 3 builds and everything else is ruining the game for them. And inflaming the patience of the already overstretched and tired officers trying to help them succeed, trying to give them hope, trying to keep them in the Eso community.

Nah, I’m not going to enter arguments again. I really don’t want to do that.
I see one thing in the game, you see another. All good, I respect your vision, even if you don’t agree with mine.

Cuz, at the end of the day, nothing will change, because ZoS won’t change anything about Oakensoul or similar builds.