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Flame Lash Feedback
Decimus
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Alright, after playing a lot with this ability in PvP on various different builds... can we get an AoE check on the Off Balance?
One of the most annoying things is landing Off Balance on your target (on multiple targets even with DW Scribe for example), pulling them, using your Flame Lash to proc Power La-, oh it landed on that one person in that cluster of opponents that in fact did not have Off Balance... and then you spend the next few seconds trying to proc your Off Balance and the Flame Lash keeps landing on targets (not the one you tabbed, who has the off balance... or anyone else who might've gotten it) without activating your Power Lash. And then you die.
Or alternatively you kill the Off Balanced target with Flame Lash... which makes Power Lash not proc.
This ability just has way too many annoying, clunky interactions at the moment that could be easily solved with slight design changes and a bug fix in case of the Flame Lash killing the Off Balanced target. I wouldn't be making this forum thread if this wasn't a consistent experience when playing with the ability.
One of the most annoying things is landing Off Balance on your target (on multiple targets even with DW Scribe for example), pulling them, using your Flame Lash to proc Power La-, oh it landed on that one person in that cluster of opponents that in fact did not have Off Balance... and then you spend the next few seconds trying to proc your Off Balance and the Flame Lash keeps landing on targets (not the one you tabbed, who has the off balance... or anyone else who might've gotten it) without activating your Power Lash. And then you die.
Or alternatively you kill the Off Balanced target with Flame Lash... which makes Power Lash not proc.
This ability just has way too many annoying, clunky interactions at the moment that could be easily solved with slight design changes and a bug fix in case of the Flame Lash killing the Off Balanced target. I wouldn't be making this forum thread if this wasn't a consistent experience when playing with the ability.
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Mattymoo92✭✭✭Alright, after playing a lot with this ability in PvP on various different builds... can we get an AoE check on the Off Balance?
One of the most annoying things is landing Off Balance on your target (on multiple targets even with DW Scribe for example), pulling them, using your Flame Lash to proc Power La-, oh it landed on that one person in that cluster of opponents that in fact did not have Off Balance... and then you spend the next few seconds trying to proc your Off Balance and the Flame Lash keeps landing on targets (not the one you tabbed, who has the off balance... or anyone else who might've gotten it) without activating your Power Lash. And then you die.
Or alternatively you kill the Off Balanced target with Flame Lash... which makes Power Lash not proc.
This ability just has way too many annoying, clunky interactions at the moment that could be easily solved with slight design changes and a bug fix in case of the Flame Lash killing the Off Balanced target. I wouldn't be making this forum thread if this wasn't a consistent experience when playing with the ability.
YES PLEASE… though maybe the skill might then need nerfing harder0 -
Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭Flame Lash doesn’t need an AOE check on off-balance targets. The game just needs a better targeting system that lets you actually hit the person you want to. Hell, I’d be all for a straight-up lock-on system. It’s not like you’ve got to aim your ranged attacks anyway.
I’ve brought this up on multiple occasions when discussing the frustration of fighting these “zoo builds” with three or four pets body blocking for players.
Tab targeting doesn’t work. Point blank.
Sure, it’s great for tracking your target through a wall. But actually hitting them? Not even close. It’s why a lot of group members are constantly moving around each other during fights. It makes it hard to hit the same target consistently. I’m trying to fight, not play a digital version of the old ‘cup game’ hustle.7 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭Eso already has barn sized hitboxes....Tab targeting would make at least me loose any interest in the game.0
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Oblivion_Protocol✭✭✭✭✭Aces-High-82 wrote: »Eso already has barn sized hitboxes....Tab targeting would make at least me loose any interest in the game.
Yeah…and those hitboxes are the problem. Why should I be completely incapable of hitting you just because you have some Daedric NPCs floating around, or because you’re shuffling around the people in your group who all have similar sized hitboxes?1 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.
Sustain wise you are doing something wrong BC Soul/Heart of Flame offers infinite sustain. Your stamina should go to blocking , Vigor and Dis Dragonfire (plus Hurricane If you subclass Stormcalling). DK is such busted - I have 6k+ wp, 13k pen, 32k HP, 1k+ HP reg, 40%+ CHC, 40k resis on a Khajit, those are stats in cyro. Not even talking about being at speedcap when sprinting or the insane HPS with cauterise, critsurge, Vigor and HP reg. Then you have 50% projectile reduction from Wings. If being zerged I can disengage with streak.
Absolute craziness. No need for wretched or roksa or Recovery food.Edited by Aces-High-82 on April 4, 2026 6:59AM1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭Alright, after playing a lot with this ability in PvP on various different builds... can we get an AoE check on the Off Balance?
One of the most annoying things is landing Off Balance on your target (on multiple targets even with DW Scribe for example), pulling them, using your Flame Lash to proc Power La-, oh it landed on that one person in that cluster of opponents that in fact did not have Off Balance... and then you spend the next few seconds trying to proc your Off Balance and the Flame Lash keeps landing on targets (not the one you tabbed, who has the off balance... or anyone else who might've gotten it) without activating your Power Lash. And then you die.
Or alternatively you kill the Off Balanced target with Flame Lash... which makes Power Lash not proc.
This ability just has way too many annoying, clunky interactions at the moment that could be easily solved with slight design changes and a bug fix in case of the Flame Lash killing the Off Balanced target. I wouldn't be making this forum thread if this wasn't a consistent experience when playing with the ability.
Here’s the real problem … the Devs “reworked” DK but they made, IMO, a huge mistake. They didn’t elevate DK as a class, they elevated certain DK skills; that’s not the same thing.
When it comes to Lava Whip, Flame Lash, and the Power Lash conversion, specifically; I totally understand the concept of the off-balance proc requirement. It creates a pacing aspect that prevents the class from essentially being able to spam the skill (when used in the context of a pure class DK).
This makes sense and creates a concept of balance because the skill has a combination of high damage scaling, plus, (in the case of Power Lash) has an equally strong heal component which allows the caster to use it with near impunity. That’s insanely powerful. A skill like that should have a somewhat restrictive element but subclassed builds can essentially bypass that.
Now, here’s the major mistake. Because the Devs didn’t confine this skill or its conversions (ie Flame Lash > Power Lash) to strictly be pure-class DK only, they essentially hurt DK and everyone else by enabling subclassed builds to better synergize with one of DKs own skills better than they can themselves!
Meta builds whom are already running either Surprise Attack or Toppling Charge have a perfect setup to proc the Power Lash conversion with a near 100% available uptime (basically proc it immediately after the ability cooldown with no skill check). This is something pure DKs would struggle to do.
The Devs were supposed to elevate the DK class, making the idea of a pure DK more viable and competitive with the power of subclasses builds. But instead, what they did was allowed the very subclass users who were already over performing to take better advantage of DKs new skill and even further over perform.
Skills like Surprise Attack already scale to high outputs, activate quickly, are spammable, and guarantee Off Balance. Toppling Charge on the other hand delivers Off Balance and a gap closer, which, also has a stun lock bug which freezes the target during the gap close animation, preventing them from blocking or dodging and (basically) giving the caster more CC than what they should with that skill. Being able to follow up either of those with Lava Whip, Flame Lash, or Power Lash is beyond broken. … In a pinch a subclassed build could also lean on Cliff Racer if they’re running the Animal Companions line and need an Off Balance, but, what I’m seeing spammed, on constant repeat, is Surpise Attack or Toppling Charge + Power Lash.
IMO this is fixable by just confining the conversion portion of the skill to non-subclassed, pure DK builds only. A skill that delivers this much power scaling paired with the healing utility needs a pacing instrument as well as a skill check to proc reliably. But what we have now removes that and imbalances combat terribly.
I don’t know how this made it through testing or even PTS without it being insanely clear how abused this skill would be (especially in PvP) and how badly it would be used against the very class it was supposed to help elevate.
The Devs can’t keep having open season with subclassing. If part of the goal with class refreshes are to help make them competitive with subclass build potential then they’re going to have to start drawing lines around what can be subclassed and what aspects of skills are reserved only for their root class.Edited by NxJoeyD on April 4, 2026 8:25AM0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.
Sustain wise you are doing something wrong BC Soul/Heart of Flame offers infinite sustain. Your stamina should go to blocking , Vigor and Dis Dragonfire (plus Hurricane If you subclass Stormcalling). DK is such busted - I have 6k+ wp, 13k pen, 32k HP, 1k+ HP reg, 40%+ CHC, 40k resis on a Khajit, those are stats in cyro. Not even talking about being at speedcap when sprinting or the insane HPS with cauterise, critsurge, Vigor and HP reg. Then you have 50% projectile reduction from Wings. If being zerged I can disengage with streak.
Absolute craziness. No need for wretched or roksa or Recovery food.
I've always been hard on resources. I'm talking about battlegrounds here so no CP.
I don't know where you're getting 40k resists from. Are you adding something that doesn't show up on the character sheet on console? I'm console only. I have 23k resists on with major resolve. Earth shield only lasts 20 seconds so I have to spend Magicka on that every 20 seconds. + Igneous weapons for major brutality and elder dragon heal for minor courage. Plus wings for snare immunity. And of course cauterize. It all ads up and buffs don't last long enough. Wretched vitality is great for resource sustain so I can use stamina skills better. All attributes are in health anyway.
I don't know where you're getting that much Pen from unless you're including Balorgh which I'm using too.
Fyi scribed soul wield for major breach is better than dragon fire IMO because I can use the DK class mastery script with it, and the range is further.0 -
Blackrim✭✭✭I have no problem in Cyrodiil flame lashing my off balance targets...
If your PC is too slow in those massive fights then idk what to tell ya.
I think the ability is fine as is.0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.
Sustain wise you are doing something wrong BC Soul/Heart of Flame offers infinite sustain. Your stamina should go to blocking , Vigor and Dis Dragonfire (plus Hurricane If you subclass Stormcalling). DK is such busted - I have 6k+ wp, 13k pen, 32k HP, 1k+ HP reg, 40%+ CHC, 40k resis on a Khajit, those are stats in cyro. Not even talking about being at speedcap when sprinting or the insane HPS with cauterise, critsurge, Vigor and HP reg. Then you have 50% projectile reduction from Wings. If being zerged I can disengage with streak.
Absolute craziness. No need for wretched or roksa or Recovery food.
I've always been hard on resources. I'm talking about battlegrounds here so no CP.
I don't know where you're getting 40k resists from. Are you adding something that doesn't show up on the character sheet on console? I'm console only. I have 23k resists on with major resolve. Earth shield only lasts 20 seconds so I have to spend Magicka on that every 20 seconds. + Igneous weapons for major brutality and elder dragon heal for minor courage. Plus wings for snare immunity. And of course cauterize. It all ads up and buffs don't last long enough. Wretched vitality is great for resource sustain so I can use stamina skills better. All attributes are in health anyway.
I don't know where you're getting that much Pen from unless you're including Balorgh which I'm using too.
Fyi scribed soul wield for major breach is better than dragon fire IMO because I can use the DK class mastery script with it, and the range is further.
Resis: 4 reinforced heavy pieces, Gaze of Sithis, 1pc Chudan or similar, Hurricane, Vigor minor resolve, 2x Protective, defending Back bar weapon and Lady mundus
Pen: maces, 1 sharpend, 2 light pieces + Major breach from Desintegrating + possible sundered proc via weapon glyph
Sustain: Press Soul of Flame on every 4 sec
Attributes: Bewitched and then aim for 32k hp, Rest goes to Mag
I arranged sets to have Orders Wrath and RC active at all times.
Edited by Aces-High-82 on April 5, 2026 10:43AM0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.
Sustain wise you are doing something wrong BC Soul/Heart of Flame offers infinite sustain. Your stamina should go to blocking , Vigor and Dis Dragonfire (plus Hurricane If you subclass Stormcalling). DK is such busted - I have 6k+ wp, 13k pen, 32k HP, 1k+ HP reg, 40%+ CHC, 40k resis on a Khajit, those are stats in cyro. Not even talking about being at speedcap when sprinting or the insane HPS with cauterise, critsurge, Vigor and HP reg. Then you have 50% projectile reduction from Wings. If being zerged I can disengage with streak.
Absolute craziness. No need for wretched or roksa or Recovery food.
I've always been hard on resources. I'm talking about battlegrounds here so no CP.
I don't know where you're getting 40k resists from. Are you adding something that doesn't show up on the character sheet on console? I'm console only. I have 23k resists on with major resolve. Earth shield only lasts 20 seconds so I have to spend Magicka on that every 20 seconds. + Igneous weapons for major brutality and elder dragon heal for minor courage. Plus wings for snare immunity. And of course cauterize. It all ads up and buffs don't last long enough. Wretched vitality is great for resource sustain so I can use stamina skills better. All attributes are in health anyway.
I don't know where you're getting that much Pen from unless you're including Balorgh which I'm using too.
Fyi scribed soul wield for major breach is better than dragon fire IMO because I can use the DK class mastery script with it, and the range is further.
Resis: 4 reinforced heavy pieces, Gaze of Sithis, 1pc Chudan or similar, Hurricane, Vigor minor resolve, 2x Protective, defending Back bar weapon and Lady mundus
Pen: maces, 1 sharpend, 2 light pieces + Major breach from Desintegrating + possible sundered proc via weapon glyph
Sustain: Press Soul of Flame on every 4 sec
Attributes: Bewitched and then aim for 32k hp, Rest goes to Mag
I arranged sets to have Orders Wrath and RC active at all times.
Yeah I use orders wrath on front bar, wretched on backbar, monomyth and Balorgh. W2x Blood thirsty trait, 1x swift. 2x axes with precise traits. And Warrior mundus. How are you getting 6k sheet wpn Dmg?
No wonder you have alot of resists.
I tried stormcaller line and the sustain is much better. But pure class DK seems to be harder on resources.0 -
OnGodiDoDis✭✭✭Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.0
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Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.Edited by NxJoeyD on April 5, 2026 10:41PM0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.Edited by NxJoeyD on April 6, 2026 12:33AM0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.
Interesting.
Why do you think someone's experience would be any less fun if they had RNG chance of getting Power Lashes to death by a DK rather than it being guaranteed that this is the outcome if DK plays correctly & opponents incorrectly? To me, if I was someone dying to that, the mere possibility of it happening would make it an unfun experience. Luckily I know how to play against DKs.
Still, this scenario you deem "less fun" for the opponents already happens if the DK high rolls the Flame Lash on the right target.
Problem is that there is no "skill check" involved, only an RNG check in bigger fights.
Also I don't get the "you were not intended to use this skill in AoE situations" rationale - why make the proc AoE then? It seems specifically designed for those situations, and I bet you that similar clunkiness happens in PvE as well if trying to use Power Lash in AoE trash fights causing less fun and more frustration at the clunkiness of it all.1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.
Interesting.
Why do you think someone's experience would be any less fun if they had RNG chance of getting Power Lashes to death by a DK rather than it being guaranteed that this is the outcome if DK plays correctly & opponents incorrectly? To me, if I was someone dying to that, the mere possibility of it happening would make it an unfun experience. Luckily I know how to play against DKs.
Still, this scenario you deem "less fun" for the opponents already happens if the DK high rolls the Flame Lash on the right target.
Problem is that there is no "skill check" involved, only an RNG check in bigger fights.
Also I don't get the "you were not intended to use this skill in AoE situations" rationale - why make the proc AoE then? It seems specifically designed for those situations, and I bet you that similar clunkiness happens in PvE as well if trying to use Power Lash in AoE trash fights causing less fun and more frustration at the clunkiness of it all.
I don’t know that I agree here. There is absolutely a skill check involved. Being able to use Power Lash in a group setting to deal very high scaling AoE damage to multiple targets, while at the same time, receiving an equal amount of heals isn’t necessarily RNG. The way you’re presenting it is RNG, but you just want to spam a group, and that might not be the best approach.
For something that significantly powerful to occur there should absolutely be a high bar strategy or skill check involved. Meaning that the player could, for example, strategically target an outterlying enemy within the group, focus them, attempt to draw them in a way that provides the separation needed for recognition then set them off balance and apply Power Lash, which will affect the area. Yes, that’s a more intricate setup and it should be!
The idea that someone should be able to more easily receive a guaranteed proc of Power Lash is a bit ridiculous. Sure some might find that fun but it’s not hard at all to see how that would break combat even further.
We have players using Surprise Attack, rapidly, on multiple targets within a group and then utilizing Power Lash, that’s also a viable strategy to more readily proc Power Lash.
Combat is supposed to carry an aspect of strategy, of risk versus reward. Skill procs aren’t supposed to be a given they’re supposed to have an effort element that’s comparable to their output. What you’re asking for would significantly lower the effort aspect for the gain the skill brings, aka, severe imbalance.
There’s ways to use Power Lash against multiple targets, it’s just that the way to do so many not the the preferred method that you want to do, that’s what I mean about use case.
Power Lash is severely abused in PvP with near total impunity. Subclass builds have been able to turn this skill back on DKs and every other class by being able to better Proc Power Lash than DKs often can. I do believe that was a big mistake on the part of the Devs but if the skill is that broadly abused now, how much worse do you think it can get if you remove some of the barrier to the use Proc? It would be bonkers bad.
Skills like Power Lash paired with Fleetstep or Falcons already greatly reduces counterplay because the caster is out healing most incoming damage and has CC immunity, reducing both CC and kite effectiveness. The last thing we need is any mechanical change that reduces counterplay effectiveness anymore by enabling a greater chance at uptime in a spam.
Although you feel this kind of a change might make for more fun, an unintended consequence is that it would negatively affect combat by some degree. Whereas there are other methods one could take to use Power Lash against a group of targets, it’s just a matter of adjusting strategy.Edited by NxJoeyD on April 6, 2026 1:18AM0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.
Interesting.
Why do you think someone's experience would be any less fun if they had RNG chance of getting Power Lashes to death by a DK rather than it being guaranteed that this is the outcome if DK plays correctly & opponents incorrectly? To me, if I was someone dying to that, the mere possibility of it happening would make it an unfun experience. Luckily I know how to play against DKs.
Still, this scenario you deem "less fun" for the opponents already happens if the DK high rolls the Flame Lash on the right target.
Problem is that there is no "skill check" involved, only an RNG check in bigger fights.
Also I don't get the "you were not intended to use this skill in AoE situations" rationale - why make the proc AoE then? It seems specifically designed for those situations, and I bet you that similar clunkiness happens in PvE as well if trying to use Power Lash in AoE trash fights causing less fun and more frustration at the clunkiness of it all.
I don’t know that I agree here. There is absolutely a skill check involved. Being able to use Power Lash in a group setting to deal very high scaling AoE damage to multiple targets, while at the same time, receiving an equal amount of heals isn’t necessarily RNG. The way you’re presenting it is RNG, but you just want to spam a group, and that might not be the best approach.
For something that significantly powerful to occur there should absolutely be a high bar strategy or skill check involved. Meaning that the player could, for example, strategically target an outterlying enemy within the group, focus them, attempt to draw them in a way that provides the separation needed for recognition then set them off balance and apply Power Lash, which will affect the area. Yes, that’s a more intricate setup and it should be!
The idea that someone should be able to more easily receive a guaranteed proc of Power Lash is a bit ridiculous. Sure some might find that fun but it’s not hard at all to see how that would break combat even further.
We have players using Surprise Attack, rapidly, on multiple targets within a group and then utilizing Power Lash, that’s also a viable strategy to more readily proc Power Lash.
Combat is supposed to carry an aspect of strategy, of risk versus reward. Skill procs aren’t supposed to be a given they’re supposed to have an effort element that’s comparable to their output. What you’re asking for would significantly lower the effort aspect for the gain the skill brings, aka, severe imbalance.
There’s ways to use Power Lash against multiple targets, it’s just that the way to do so many not the the preferred method that you want to do, that’s what I mean about use case.
Power Lash is severely abused in PvP with near total impunity. Subclass builds have been able to turn this skill back on DKs and every other class by being able to better Proc Power Lash than DKs often can. I do believe that was a big mistake on the part of the Devs but if the skill is that broadly abused now, how much worse do you think it can get if you remove some of the barrier to the use Proc? It would be bonkers bad.
Skills like Power Lash paired with Fleetstep or Falcons already greatly reduces counterplay because the caster is out healing most incoming damage and has CC immunity, reducing both CC and kite effectiveness. The last thing we need is any mechanical change that reduces counterplay effectiveness anymore by enabling a greater chance at uptime in a spam.
Although you feel this kind of a change might make for more fun, an unintended consequence is that it would negatively affect combat by some degree. Whereas there are other methods one could take to use Power Lash against a group of targets, it’s just a matter of adjusting strategy.
If you have to target someone away from a group in order to actually be reliably able to proc your Power Lash while your acuity and corrosive timers are ticking down, then you're precisely describing how clunky this skill currently is in any group fight situation.
Hitting the wrong target with your bow proc or Crystal Frag is annoying, but does something atleast and often allows you to pivot to a different target. Hitting the wrong target with Flame Lash completely kills your offense and survivability in most situations - you cannot leave something that crucial to targeting RNG.
Also hiding inside a blob of players in order to make it RNG for your opponent whether they can do AoE/self heal or not isn't counterplay, it's just unnecessary annoyance.
The actual counterplay is block/dodge roll and most importantly outrange, all of which work great against Power Lash. There's also fire resistance jewelry glyphs, Dunmer/Breton resistances etc, many indirect counters if DKs/DK subclassers annoy you so.Edited by Decimus on April 6, 2026 2:05AM0 -
Aces-High-82✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Aces-High-82 wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Why flame lash and not molten whip?
Why use Flame Lash or why Flame Lash should have an AoE check on off balance?
The two function very differently - if you hit the wrong target with your stacked Molten Whip it sucks, but you can probably still get a kill since you get full value out of it.
If you hit the wrong target with your Flame Lash due to inconsistent targeting, it just sucks a lot since you won't get the value at all, on anyone... nor do you get a big heal with consequent casts - cue the frustration.
An AoE check for Off Balance would fix that and make the ability feel less clunky.
As to why use Flame Lash, it's just better on a lot of builds (particularly Corrosive setups) due to the AoE potential and sustained pressure - I have different builds utilizing both morphs currently... Molten Whip is by far the less frustrating morph to use.
Yeah I meant why choose flame lash for PvP over molten whip.
Because of the refresh I dusted off my old mag DK I haven't used for years.
I'm not good with skills requiring finicky timing. It's hard enough to just get the soul of flame delayed burst to hit at the same time. Molten whip seems to hit harder. Ain't nobody got time to worry about if somebody is off balance or not. People are moving so fast. I also like how molten whip uses both stamina and mag. I'm finding DKs buff/heal skills plus soul of flame to be too expensive on Magicka if you actually want to keep all your buffs up. And I'm wearing wretched vitality as a Breton. Instead of dragonfire breath for major breach I'm using sundering soul wield with class mastery script and whirling blades for an execute so I can use more stamina for attacking.
Sustain wise you are doing something wrong BC Soul/Heart of Flame offers infinite sustain. Your stamina should go to blocking , Vigor and Dis Dragonfire (plus Hurricane If you subclass Stormcalling). DK is such busted - I have 6k+ wp, 13k pen, 32k HP, 1k+ HP reg, 40%+ CHC, 40k resis on a Khajit, those are stats in cyro. Not even talking about being at speedcap when sprinting or the insane HPS with cauterise, critsurge, Vigor and HP reg. Then you have 50% projectile reduction from Wings. If being zerged I can disengage with streak.
Absolute craziness. No need for wretched or roksa or Recovery food.
I've always been hard on resources. I'm talking about battlegrounds here so no CP.
I don't know where you're getting 40k resists from. Are you adding something that doesn't show up on the character sheet on console? I'm console only. I have 23k resists on with major resolve. Earth shield only lasts 20 seconds so I have to spend Magicka on that every 20 seconds. + Igneous weapons for major brutality and elder dragon heal for minor courage. Plus wings for snare immunity. And of course cauterize. It all ads up and buffs don't last long enough. Wretched vitality is great for resource sustain so I can use stamina skills better. All attributes are in health anyway.
I don't know where you're getting that much Pen from unless you're including Balorgh which I'm using too.
Fyi scribed soul wield for major breach is better than dragon fire IMO because I can use the DK class mastery script with it, and the range is further.
Resis: 4 reinforced heavy pieces, Gaze of Sithis, 1pc Chudan or similar, Hurricane, Vigor minor resolve, 2x Protective, defending Back bar weapon and Lady mundus
Pen: maces, 1 sharpend, 2 light pieces + Major breach from Desintegrating + possible sundered proc via weapon glyph
Sustain: Press Soul of Flame on every 4 sec
Attributes: Bewitched and then aim for 32k hp, Rest goes to Mag
I arranged sets to have Orders Wrath and RC active at all times.
Yeah I use orders wrath on front bar, wretched on backbar, monomyth and Balorgh. W2x Blood thirsty trait, 1x swift. 2x axes with precise traits. And Warrior mundus. How are you getting 6k sheet wpn Dmg?
No wonder you have alot of resists.
I tried stormcaller line and the sustain is much better. But pure class DK seems to be harder on resources.
That wp DMG is with RC proc, Major and minor Brutality , minor Courage from Dragonblood and Continuous but excluding Berserker enchantEdited by Aces-High-82 on April 6, 2026 5:31AM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.
Interesting.
Why do you think someone's experience would be any less fun if they had RNG chance of getting Power Lashes to death by a DK rather than it being guaranteed that this is the outcome if DK plays correctly & opponents incorrectly? To me, if I was someone dying to that, the mere possibility of it happening would make it an unfun experience. Luckily I know how to play against DKs.
Still, this scenario you deem "less fun" for the opponents already happens if the DK high rolls the Flame Lash on the right target.
Problem is that there is no "skill check" involved, only an RNG check in bigger fights.
Also I don't get the "you were not intended to use this skill in AoE situations" rationale - why make the proc AoE then? It seems specifically designed for those situations, and I bet you that similar clunkiness happens in PvE as well if trying to use Power Lash in AoE trash fights causing less fun and more frustration at the clunkiness of it all.
I don’t know that I agree here. There is absolutely a skill check involved. Being able to use Power Lash in a group setting to deal very high scaling AoE damage to multiple targets, while at the same time, receiving an equal amount of heals isn’t necessarily RNG. The way you’re presenting it is RNG, but you just want to spam a group, and that might not be the best approach.
For something that significantly powerful to occur there should absolutely be a high bar strategy or skill check involved. Meaning that the player could, for example, strategically target an outterlying enemy within the group, focus them, attempt to draw them in a way that provides the separation needed for recognition then set them off balance and apply Power Lash, which will affect the area. Yes, that’s a more intricate setup and it should be!
The idea that someone should be able to more easily receive a guaranteed proc of Power Lash is a bit ridiculous. Sure some might find that fun but it’s not hard at all to see how that would break combat even further.
We have players using Surprise Attack, rapidly, on multiple targets within a group and then utilizing Power Lash, that’s also a viable strategy to more readily proc Power Lash.
Combat is supposed to carry an aspect of strategy, of risk versus reward. Skill procs aren’t supposed to be a given they’re supposed to have an effort element that’s comparable to their output. What you’re asking for would significantly lower the effort aspect for the gain the skill brings, aka, severe imbalance.
There’s ways to use Power Lash against multiple targets, it’s just that the way to do so many not the the preferred method that you want to do, that’s what I mean about use case.
Power Lash is severely abused in PvP with near total impunity. Subclass builds have been able to turn this skill back on DKs and every other class by being able to better Proc Power Lash than DKs often can. I do believe that was a big mistake on the part of the Devs but if the skill is that broadly abused now, how much worse do you think it can get if you remove some of the barrier to the use Proc? It would be bonkers bad.
Skills like Power Lash paired with Fleetstep or Falcons already greatly reduces counterplay because the caster is out healing most incoming damage and has CC immunity, reducing both CC and kite effectiveness. The last thing we need is any mechanical change that reduces counterplay effectiveness anymore by enabling a greater chance at uptime in a spam.
Although you feel this kind of a change might make for more fun, an unintended consequence is that it would negatively affect combat by some degree. Whereas there are other methods one could take to use Power Lash against a group of targets, it’s just a matter of adjusting strategy.
If you have to target someone away from a group in order to actually be reliably able to proc your Power Lash while your acuity and corrosive timers are ticking down, then you're precisely describing how clunky this skill currently is in any group fight situation.
Hitting the wrong target with your bow proc or Crystal Frag is annoying, but does something atleast and often allows you to pivot to a different target. Hitting the wrong target with Flame Lash completely kills your offense and survivability in most situations - you cannot leave something that crucial to targeting RNG.
Also hiding inside a blob of players in order to make it RNG for your opponent whether they can do AoE/self heal or not isn't counterplay, it's just unnecessary annoyance.
The actual counterplay is block/dodge roll and most importantly outrange, all of which work great against Power Lash. There's also fire resistance jewelry glyphs, Dunmer/Breton resistances etc, many indirect counters if DKs/DK subclassers annoy you so.
I didn’t say you had to kite the opponent across Cyrodill, I said focus and aggro them enough to get a clear target recognition. An AoE of 8m for a skill with that much output potential is generous. The setup for that isn’t so much clunky it’s more strategic. You shouldn’t be able to just target one enemy within a ball group for off balance and just spam, that’s far too easy for what one gets with this skill.
I don’t deny that target recognition in ESO is poor, it very much is, however, the way the mechanics around this skill were built appear to use that as a poor man’s pacing element. A skill like Power Lash shouldn’t be easily spammable or proccable, it SHOULD have some aspect of challenge to it.
I also don’t agree. If you’re putting your proverbial (all of your eggs in one basket) so to speak, over relying on Power Lash then I question your play style or build. Even if you hit the wrong target it’s not as if Flame Lash isn’t doing significant damage output anyway. If you’re in a PvE environment then you should have a healing component in an actual healer that minimizes the survivability of not having the heal from Power Lash. If you’re in PvP then you’re expected to have some aspect of durability in your build anyway. If your choice for durability is the heal factor from Power Lash then, IMO, that’s a poorer choice.
Counterplay is already reduced. We hear the same suggestions over and over: block & Dodge, to the point that’s it’s become over prioritized. While that is true, block & Dodge are both important, the reality is that the answer to damage mitigation cannot, realistically, just be all block and dodge. Namely because not every player is a stam based build. Further, subclassing. Subclassing has given everyone access to all mechanics which eliminated class limitations. There is no such thing as out of range anymore; between all of the mobility buffs and gap closers than everyone can now access as well as the increase in access to more CC there is no staying out of range, at least not from good players. Power Lash is an 8m AoE, provided the caster has any of a number of mobility buffs + CC immunity they can just run you down, which is exactly what we see nowdays. Those old counterplay methods have changed since subclassing.
“More fun” for some, doesn’t mean better for the game, overall. If we didn’t have subclassing I would agree with your suggestion here, but unfortunately, subclassing isn’t going away. When we look at any skill in ESO now we have to measure its potential use not just in the sense of the root class it belongs to but how it can be used outside of that to reach a full ceiling. Power Lash is already way too easy to proc, even on a group of enemies, it just takes a method different than what you want to do, but it’s already too easy.Edited by NxJoeyD on April 6, 2026 12:30PM0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭OnGodiDoDis wrote: »Perhaps you are struggling with Power Lash because it was not meant to be used in the way you are intending. It sounds like the play style you are describing is 1vX. It is absolutely possible to proc Power Lash on a group. You are given the tools to do so (Molten Armaments and morphs, and Soul of Flame and morphs). If you are struggling to proc Power Lash it is because you are trying to bypass the required mechanics that would make a target off-balance (you have to heavy attack first or interrupt with Soul of Flame). Given that we already have the tools to reliably proc Power Lash, any adjustments to make it proc easier would have to be accompanied by a huge nerf because it deals so much AoE damage. Use the tools that are given to you. This is a powerful skill and it needs a handicap of this level to keep it powerful, otherwise it will get nerfed.
The problem isn't not having off balance (DW Scribe is your best option for this btw), the problem is the clunkiness of landing that Flame Lash on the target who got off balanced in larger fights due to the game's clunky targeting.
It's easier to make the skill check for Off Balance in an AoE radius rather than fix something that's been broken for 12+ years.
The idea is to not have frustrating experiences in PvP where you do the right thing with the right intent, but RNG decides your Flame Lash hits someone else instead and doesn't turn into Power Lash. Why design something in such rage inducing way?
Fixing that changes nothing for 1v1 or Xv1 balance (nothing wrong with Flame Lash there), but would make the skill less annoying in situations where you're already at a disadvantage rather than have RNG annoyance on top of that.
No other changes are required.
Anyone who’s played as a ranged main will tell you this has been a long standing problem and I don’t think there’s anyone out there who thinks the Devs are capable of fixing that.
The problem is, now that we have subclassing, there’s an inherent (overall) benefit to combat with the skil working this, somewhat quirky limited way.
If the choice is between broad, AoE, Off Balance application which makes Power Lash easier to proc, OR, the clunky target recognition that sees Power Lash affect as only Power Lash, then the best overall scenario for combat (as a whole) is to have the Power Lash not convert.
In PvP, the skill is already too easily synergized with other subclassed skill lines. Since we can’t have different core combat mechanics for PvP & PvE then the last thing we need is for this still to be even more easily applied; as others have mentioned, it would get a massive nerf and that nerf would be justified.
This is not about the power level of the skill, it's about whether it's fun to utilize. If the skill wasn't extremely powerful, I'd consider the DK rework a complete flop.
It, however, is not fun to utilize with all of its current clunkiness, and this is something ZOS should do something about. Making it less clunky in group fights isn't going to make DKs any more powerful in 1v1s or Xv1s, just less targeting RNG reliant in group fights/1vX.
This is something I hope they keep in mind when they rework other classes to also have similarly strong toolkits - they should make classes and their abilities feel not just powerful, but also fun and not frustrating to play.
No developer can justify further breaking a game, mechanically, solely in the name of “fun” for some players.
The changes that you feel would make this skill more fun, would, at the same time, make combat, overall, MUCH less fun for a lot more people.
And again, it’s not whether it makes DKs more powerful, per se, it’s whether it makes the skill more powerful by having a more consistent AoE uptime with less of a skill check.
A skill like Power Lash that delivers the strong combination of high AoE damage paired with high healing needs a pacing element, for balance. I get that trying to target the opponent you set off balance in a bunch can be frustrating, but as others have pointed out, that also might not have been the most optimal use case the Devs intended for that skill.
So to just arbitrarily change the mechanics so that some can find it more fun, without considering the consequence that would have on combat as a whole would be short sighted, and guaranteed, if the Devs did make such a change you can bet on it coming with a numbers nerf.
Interesting.
Why do you think someone's experience would be any less fun if they had RNG chance of getting Power Lashes to death by a DK rather than it being guaranteed that this is the outcome if DK plays correctly & opponents incorrectly? To me, if I was someone dying to that, the mere possibility of it happening would make it an unfun experience. Luckily I know how to play against DKs.
Still, this scenario you deem "less fun" for the opponents already happens if the DK high rolls the Flame Lash on the right target.
Problem is that there is no "skill check" involved, only an RNG check in bigger fights.
Also I don't get the "you were not intended to use this skill in AoE situations" rationale - why make the proc AoE then? It seems specifically designed for those situations, and I bet you that similar clunkiness happens in PvE as well if trying to use Power Lash in AoE trash fights causing less fun and more frustration at the clunkiness of it all.
I don’t know that I agree here. There is absolutely a skill check involved. Being able to use Power Lash in a group setting to deal very high scaling AoE damage to multiple targets, while at the same time, receiving an equal amount of heals isn’t necessarily RNG. The way you’re presenting it is RNG, but you just want to spam a group, and that might not be the best approach.
For something that significantly powerful to occur there should absolutely be a high bar strategy or skill check involved. Meaning that the player could, for example, strategically target an outterlying enemy within the group, focus them, attempt to draw them in a way that provides the separation needed for recognition then set them off balance and apply Power Lash, which will affect the area. Yes, that’s a more intricate setup and it should be!
The idea that someone should be able to more easily receive a guaranteed proc of Power Lash is a bit ridiculous. Sure some might find that fun but it’s not hard at all to see how that would break combat even further.
We have players using Surprise Attack, rapidly, on multiple targets within a group and then utilizing Power Lash, that’s also a viable strategy to more readily proc Power Lash.
Combat is supposed to carry an aspect of strategy, of risk versus reward. Skill procs aren’t supposed to be a given they’re supposed to have an effort element that’s comparable to their output. What you’re asking for would significantly lower the effort aspect for the gain the skill brings, aka, severe imbalance.
There’s ways to use Power Lash against multiple targets, it’s just that the way to do so many not the the preferred method that you want to do, that’s what I mean about use case.
Power Lash is severely abused in PvP with near total impunity. Subclass builds have been able to turn this skill back on DKs and every other class by being able to better Proc Power Lash than DKs often can. I do believe that was a big mistake on the part of the Devs but if the skill is that broadly abused now, how much worse do you think it can get if you remove some of the barrier to the use Proc? It would be bonkers bad.
Skills like Power Lash paired with Fleetstep or Falcons already greatly reduces counterplay because the caster is out healing most incoming damage and has CC immunity, reducing both CC and kite effectiveness. The last thing we need is any mechanical change that reduces counterplay effectiveness anymore by enabling a greater chance at uptime in a spam.
Although you feel this kind of a change might make for more fun, an unintended consequence is that it would negatively affect combat by some degree. Whereas there are other methods one could take to use Power Lash against a group of targets, it’s just a matter of adjusting strategy.
If you have to target someone away from a group in order to actually be reliably able to proc your Power Lash while your acuity and corrosive timers are ticking down, then you're precisely describing how clunky this skill currently is in any group fight situation.
Hitting the wrong target with your bow proc or Crystal Frag is annoying, but does something atleast and often allows you to pivot to a different target. Hitting the wrong target with Flame Lash completely kills your offense and survivability in most situations - you cannot leave something that crucial to targeting RNG.
Also hiding inside a blob of players in order to make it RNG for your opponent whether they can do AoE/self heal or not isn't counterplay, it's just unnecessary annoyance.
The actual counterplay is block/dodge roll and most importantly outrange, all of which work great against Power Lash. There's also fire resistance jewelry glyphs, Dunmer/Breton resistances etc, many indirect counters if DKs/DK subclassers annoy you so.
I didn’t say you had to kite the opponent across Cyrodill, I said focus and aggro them enough to get a clear target recognition. An AoE of 8m for a skill with that much output potential is generous. The setup for that isn’t so much clunky it’s more strategic. You shouldn’t be able to just target one enemy within a ball group for off balance and just spam, that’s far too easy for what one gets with this skill.
Why? I don't see why ball groups should have any additional benefits on top of ones they already have. Besides, you won't kill a ball group by just spamming Power Lash even if you could land the Flame Lash on the right target, you'll also need acuity, 7 divines shadow mundus, probably a gorethief proc ready & atleast 2-3 other DKs doing the same.I don’t deny that target recognition in ESO is poor, it very much is, however, the way the mechanics around this skill were built appear to use that as a poor man’s pacing element. A skill like Power Lash shouldn’t be easily spammable or proccable, it SHOULD have some aspect of challenge to it.
It is very easily proccable and literally can never be "spammable" with its 20s internal cooldown. You can track the off balance timer of your opponents with an addon like Off Balance Tracker and the Flame Lash cooldown with Fancy Action Bar+. The only form of clunkiness this ability has that cannot be fixed with addons or playstyle adjustments is the targeting, unless you intentionally turn your AoE nuker from a XvX/1vX machine into a single target dueling build. A playstyle for which Molten Whip works better in most cases anyway.I also don’t agree. If you’re putting your proverbial (all of your eggs in one basket) so to speak, over relying on Power Lash then I question your play style or build. Even if you hit the wrong target it’s not as if Flame Lash isn’t doing significant damage output anyway. If you’re in a PvE environment then you should have a healing component in an actual healer that minimizes the survivability of not having the heal from Power Lash. If you’re in PvP then you’re expected to have some aspect of durability in your build anyway. If your choice for durability is the heal factor from Power Lash then, IMO, that’s a poorer choice.
You are doing literally 70% less damage and only hitting one target if utilizing Flame Lash rather than Power Lash and rather than 14k tooltip heal you're getting a 4k tooltip heal. Needless to say this results in a death (even in corrosive if fighting multiple people), not to misplay but to clunkiness and RNG - nothing more unfun and rage inducing than that.Counterplay is already reduced. We hear the same suggestions over and over: block & Dodge, to the point that’s it’s become over prioritized. While that is true, block & Dodge are both important, the reality is that the answer to damage mitigation cannot, realistically, just be all block and dodge. Namely because not every player is a stam based build. Further, subclassing. Subclassing has given everyone access to all mechanics which eliminated class limitations. There is no such thing as out of range anymore; between all of the mobility buffs and gap closers than everyone can now access as well as the increase in access to more CC there is no staying out of range, at least not from good players. Power Lash is an 8m AoE, provided the caster has any of a number of mobility buffs + CC immunity they can just run you down, which is exactly what we see nowdays. Those old counterplay methods have changed since subclassing.
“More fun” for some, doesn’t mean better for the game, overall. If we didn’t have subclassing I would agree with your suggestion here, but unfortunately, subclassing isn’t going away. When we look at any skill in ESO now we have to measure its potential use not just in the sense of the root class it belongs to but how it can be used outside of that to reach a full ceiling. Power Lash is already way too easy to proc, even on a group of enemies, it just takes a method different than what you want to do, but it’s already too easy.
Well, what if I told you the ones suffering from this clunkiness the most are pure DKs wanting to play around Corrosive, not the subclassers that tend to be more single target oriented anyway?
Kiting still works very well, I do it every day even in duels in open space with no LOS vs DKs using wings. I think the problem most people have is that they don't build around mobility enough themselves - Streak/BoL or 2 Swift (speed cap while sprinting with Major Expedition) is all you need... or you adapt to being slower and block/dodge the Power Lash window.
Also you won't have to worry about subclassing much longer, we can start calling it suboptimizing instead after Update 50 & Class Mastery Passives.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TBH, I quite dislike the "stack" mechanic for Power Lash and wish that it functioned as the old Power Lash used to:
If a target is Off-Balance then DO THE THING0