NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't get why people don't want to play Werewolf to play as a werewolf. People play Vampire to play as a vampire, and they don't ask for Vampire to get a style to look like something completely different. Werewolf should be about roleplaying as a werewolf, not these other, unrelated creatures.

How is other werebeasts unrelated creatures? They are very related creatures, they have the same type of disease! Just different stains of it. People want to be and see the other types of werebeasts of Hircine, not just werewolves all the time, which as KingArthasMenethil already just mentioned, ZOS seem to only focus on and add, making it weird. ESO takes place all over Tamriel yet 98% of all werebeasts are werewolves, which makes no sense.

It's the same reason I want skin/skillstyles for vampires as well to look like different strains.

I understand the desire to look like other vampire strains. From a layman's perspective, they're all basically the same thing, just with different sorts of vampire magic. Maybe there could be styles to make your Vampire skills look like bats or mist. I think a "Vampire Lord" style for Blood Scion is out of the question though, since we can't actually walk on or fly over water with Blood Scion, and the magic we have access to is totally different.

But there is a lot different between werewolves and other werebeasts. For one, werewolves are a staple of gothic horror, like vampires, so focusing on just generic vampires and generic werewolves in this game has broad appeal — that's part of the reason the feeding system for vampires was reversed in ESO. Secondly, if we were to interpret werewolves as literally human + wolf, and compare that to other werecreatures... there is a lot different between wolves, bears, lions, sharks, vultures, bats, crocodiles, and boars. How can you say that they're all basically the same thing when those individual animals are so distinct?

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's hard to tell which strain a vampire is by looking at them, but it's easy to tell which strain a werebeast is by looking at them.

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I don't get why people don't want to play Werewolf to play as a werewolf. People play Vampire to play as a vampire, and they don't ask for Vampire to get a style to look like something completely different. Werewolf should be about roleplaying as a werewolf, not these other, unrelated creatures.

How is other werebeasts unrelated creatures? They are very related creatures, they have the same type of disease! Just different stains of it. People want to be and see the other types of werebeasts of Hircine, not just werewolves all the time, which as KingArthasMenethil already just mentioned, ZOS seem to only focus on and add, making it weird. ESO takes place all over Tamriel yet 98% of all werebeasts are werewolves, which makes no sense.

It's the same reason I want skin/skillstyles for vampires as well to look like different strains.

I understand the desire to look like other vampire strains. From a layman's perspective, they're all basically the same thing, just with different sorts of vampire magic. Maybe there could be styles to make your Vampire skills look like bats or mist. I think a "Vampire Lord" style for Blood Scion is out of the question though, since we can't actually walk on or fly over water with Blood Scion, and the magic we have access to is totally different.

But there is a lot different between werewolves and other werebeasts. For one, werewolves are a staple of gothic horror, like vampires, so focusing on just generic vampires and generic werewolves in this game has broad appeal — that's part of the reason the feeding system for vampires was reversed in ESO. Secondly, if we were to interpret werewolves as literally human + wolf, and compare that to other werecreatures... there is a lot different between wolves, bears, lions, sharks, vultures, bats, crocodiles, and boars. How can you say that they're all basically the same thing when those individual animals are so distinct?

I guess what I'm getting at is that it's hard to tell which strain a vampire is by looking at them, but it's easy to tell which strain a werebeast is by looking at them.

You seem to look at werewolf from a generic fantasy idea view, which I don't, mine here is strictly Elder Scrolls based because this is Elder Scrolls. Here, vampire strains are as different as werebeasts, actually besides the visual change vampires might actually have more of a difference between their strains than werebeasts strains which is mostly slight visual changes. At least between some of the types.

Here in Elder Scrolls so aren't werewolves/werebeast half man half wolf, it's a disease/cursed made by a deadric prince which shifts people no matter what their race is into a humanoidish beastforms of his design. They are not really the half man of other settings, and the other strains work exactly the same way as werewolf, and werebear, werelion, wereboars don't really look that different from werewolves in the general shape, just more resemembling those animals in the head and could have models done after them without not too much work. Werevulture and werebat are ones I don't expect because those are the only ones that are quite different, being flying and all. Werecrocodile being somewhere in the middle of the scale (sharks are a unproved myth).

Also you can see different strains of vampires by looking at them (if they were done according to lore), it's not just magic based.

I know that about TES lycanthropes. From what little we've seen of other werebeasts in the games (werebats don't count as they're not made by Hircine and they're the same as the Giant Bat enemies, but wereboars/werebears do count) they've been modeled after the werewolf in the respective game. The pixel art for the wereboar looks eerily similar to the werewolf pixel art in Daggerfall, while the werebear just uses the same animations as the werewolf in Skyrim.

I think if ESO was to add other werecreatures to this game, they would look similar to werewolves, not because of lore reasons, but because it's easier to develop them that way. If ZOS had the resources to, they would make werebeasts use unique models and animations:

ZOS_Erin wrote: »

New were-models, other than the female Werewolf, are not currently being discussed. New models require new rigs and animations, all of which have a significant impact on memory and performance.

I would love to see the other werecreatures as enemy types in the world — it would add variety to encounters and make different regions of Tamriel feel distinct, as we know the other werebeasts prefer specific regions, while werewolves are common all over Tamriel.

However, each werebeast still needs unique animations, sound effects, and models to be implemented into the game proper. And if they're made into styles for Werewolf Transformation, then all of Werewolf's wolf-specific animations and sound effects (think of the howling animation and SFX from Hircine's Bounty or the doggy paddle animation when swimming slowly in water) would need to be overridden to match the specific werebeast as well. We could justify getting flying werebeasts this way, too, if the Pounce animation was overridden to make the wings unfurl.

While we won't get in-depth toolkits for the specific kinds of werebeasts, we can at least hope to generalize the skills we have for werewolves to the other werebeasts. That in itself is a unique problem to this one skill line that has to be solved.

coop500 wrote: »

Why are we even discussing other werebeasts... We still gotta get a werewolf that doesn't suck, for starters. Can we focus on that, please?

You're right. The priority should be on getting werewolves to look good in this game. The other werebeasts should only be considered after that happens.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Why are we even discussing other werebeasts... We still gotta get a werewolf that doesn't suck, for starters. Can we focus on that, please?

You're right. The priority should be on getting werewolves to look good in this game. The other werebeasts should only be considered after that happens.

I mean even the devs basically told us nope, so it all just seems like debating over things we'll never get.
I agree with Ataskir though, I could even leave the no ult out of combat but it'd be fine to have for downtime in dungeons. But werewolves should be able to sneak, it's even a mechanic in one of their own dungeons! So it'd be super silly not to let them do this.

coop500 wrote: »

Why are we even discussing other werebeasts... We still gotta get a werewolf that doesn't suck, for starters. Can we focus on that, please?

The devs are looking at what players want short and longterm. I'm not going to stop talking about things I want even if it has to wait because my primary reason for using the forums is to give feedback about the game I love. I used to be a lot quieter about things and only use the forums rarely and it led to things I really wanted not happening or not being on the radar of the devs. We're not distracting the dev team, we're expressing longterm goals and attempting to help them build on foundational things they are building this year. Werewolf as just a werewolf versus werewolf with other lycanthropes and shifters in mind down the line for skill style and alternative model support could look very different from one another.

Developers operate 6 months to 1.5 years in advance of the content the public sees depending on the studio. Game companies are always thinking ahead and trying to continue having at least loose ideas and lists for future content. Also, similar to dk, which was being worked on before the class surveys even went out for a lot of it but still had some things changeable, the same probably is true for werewolf and other future class designs.

I disagree strongly with the mindset we as players should want less and not talk about our longterm wants for things. If we don't talk about it how will the devs know? If it's not in the cards permanently the devs can tell us so. It's very clear their wording lately has been alternative werewolf models aren't in the cards now. New races, classes, zones, etc are not in the cards now. We should talk about werewolf height variance dependent on race, alternative forms, etc if it's important to us because that tells them it's worth the time and investment down the line.

Also they literally asked us in the stream yesterday to keep saying what we want to see for future content (2027 onward).