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Why the one bar build hate? It needs to stop - some players do not like weapon swapping.
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Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I hate bar swapping so I was thrilled when Oakensoul was introduced. But now for some reason there is a stigma attached to using it. The most logical answer I can see is to buff it so that it's comparable to 2 bar builds so we can all play how we enjoy.
Oakensoul isn't the issue, it was the destro staff passives nerfing the cleave and the fact that most other weapon types don't synergize with heavy attacks the same. Since then, ZoS has also nerfed some of the class skills that gave passive buffs. One thing that would help is more sources of higher duration empower. I never understood why scribing didn't help out with that. most non-oakensoul heavy attack builds rely on spamming mages guild abilities which is only like 10 seconds of empower.
I probably have less understanding of how skills affect each other than most players here because theorycrafting makes my head explode. But I will never bar swap so even if Oakensoul isn't the issue why can't it be the solution?
I guess they could buff it in a way to make them better with flat generic damage boosts. Did you use heavy attacks before the destro staff nerfs? It was a night and day difference to me. Heavy attack builds are just no longer fun for solo farming, for me. Before everything died at a similar time, now you are killing things one at a time mostly, unless there is a boss or heavy health enemy in the middle to splash from.
The DK reworked fire breath feels better, and obviously even beaming with no crux generated feels better. I guess we'll see if sorcerers get enough love to make them more fun, as they are the most popular heavy attack class. I have tried the reworked DK as a heavy attack, I do like the passive off balance and stamina regen.Edited by Orbital78 on March 30, 2026 4:50PM1 -
olda90✭✭✭
Words… nothing more than words!"...."HatchetHaro wrote: »"...."
And @HatchetHaro , if you’re the player I’m thinking of, we might have already done some trials together in pugs, right? No? If you are the player I’m thinking of, let me tell you, bro, you’re not that special either. lol! You may claim whatever you want on the forums, but in-game? Not anything impressive. And I’m just a casual player too. Everyone’s better than me, and I really don’t care.
What I do care about is: “Call me in-game and show me how good you are.”
If you’re not the person I’m thinking of… well, then I can’t say anything about you. But… how can you say I was carried if you don’t even know me? Hm.
Do you actually know the relequen mechanic in vCR? Seems NOT.
Edited by olda90 on March 30, 2026 4:54PM2 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I don’t understand is the attachment to oakensoul. You do not need oakensoul. You can unbind bar swap and put bar buffers that give you buffs no matter what bar they’re slotted on onto your backbar. That is an option you can pursue. Try it if you want to use another mythic/have that one slot for something else/want to make use of backbar slotting skills?
And I do think that one-bar should not be competitive with two-bar because it is less skills to juggle, HOWEVER… I am happy with the current meta HA build… which is one-bar but uses Rakkhat instead of oakensoul. I think it’s more balanced than oakensorcHA was, since there’s no infinite sustain and there’s still some skill in keeping up empowered (though if you really wanted to, you could make a HA group and have a support give everyone empowered).
And, for the “I can’t two bar because of medical issues” (as opposed to the “I can’t two bar because of ping” folks), it seems ZOS is supporting slower rotation play by intentionally giving DK a long-channel conal attack like Arcanist. And that build isn’t bad either.[PC/NA] Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS), Retired Trialist, and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore.- Current GM of Hard Dungeoneers
- Tanks: Sorcerer - Necromancer - Templar
- DPS: Frost Warden - Stamarc
- Ex-healer
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 26/26 Tris
View my builds!
4 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What content actually needs or requires 100k+ DPS to complete? I don't mean "it makes it faster/easier" I mean "this content literally has checks that if you don't have at least 100k+ you won't complete it".
And then if someone can meet those requirements, does it matter what their build is? I've watched a number of one-bar builds the last few days because I wanted to try one (rotations with two bars have ALWAYS been really hard for me to keep up with for a number of reasons, the big one being I get overwhelmed and thrown off even simple rotations REALLY EASILY, frustratingly so, and no amount of 'practice' over the years has changed that) and those people seem to be easily hitting 120-140k.
Well, there are different ways of interpreting "content".
If you mean just clearing trials, we can then also split it into "hard dps checks" versus "technically possible but hellish". Xalvakka hardmode has a hard dps check; Ansuul hardmode ramps up heavily in difficulty once you get into execute range, such that low damage will almost certainly wipe the group; Kazpian hardmode is the same way; Jynorrah and Skorkhif on hardmode spawns curses that never despawn in execute, so you'll run out of arena space and wipe; Xoryn hardmode will keep spawning tankier and tankier crystal atronachs with each knot you go through...
If you instead mean "achievements", well, trifectas, really; the speedrun portion of those trifectas, to be exact. You'd struggle with that portion of the trifectas in Sanity's Edge, Lucent Citadel, and maybe Rockgrove, not sure. If you struggle to make speedrun on Ossein Cage hardmode with its 45-minute timer, you've got more pressing issues than the trifecta to worry about.
Good news! I don't see you in any of the raiding Discord servers I'm in, so chances are, we've never met. Let us keep it that way!
Words… nothing more than words!"...."HatchetHaro wrote: »"...."
And @HatchetHaro , if you’re the player I’m thinking of, we might have already done some trials together in pugs, right? No? If you are the player I’m thinking of, let me tell you, bro, you’re not that special either. lol! You may claim whatever you want on the forums, but in-game? Not anything impressive. And I’m just a casual player too. Everyone’s better than me, and I really don’t care.
What I do care about is: “Call me in-game and show me how good you are.”
If you’re not the person I’m thinking of… well, then I can’t say anything about you. But… how can you say I was carried if you don’t even know me? Hm.
If you don't believe me on my skill and achievements, though, that's fine; I walk the talk, and I bring receipts.
Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 7x GH, 7x TTT, 5x GS, 6x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained5 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Do you know the relequen mechanic in vCR? Seems NOT.how can you say I was carried if you don’t even know me? Hm.
I think they are saying you need to adapt for that one trial. I swapped to arcanist, but now there is the Rakkhat mythic. Honestly I didn't like the feel of the Rakkhat mythic due to needing to source empower, which is fairly limited in longer durations. For +3, arcanist is probably your best bet.
Imagine if critical surge got empower tagged on to it during the rebalance?
Edited by Orbital78 on March 30, 2026 4:59PM0 -
olda90✭✭✭
Do you know the relequen mechanic in vCR? Seems NOT.how can you say I was carried if you don’t even know me? Hm.
I think they are saying you need to adapt for that one trial. I swapped to arcanist, but now there is the Rakkhat mythic. Honestly I didn't like the feel of the Rakkhat mythic due to needing to source empower, which is fairly limited in longer durations. For +3, arcanist is probably your best bet.
Imagine if critical surge got empower tagged on to it during the rebalance?
Yes of course a PUG run will adapt in order to clear it with 7 HA 1 bar builds DDs. YES.0 -
Athory✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »Good news! I don't see you in any of the raiding Discord servers I'm in, so chances are, we've never met. Let us keep it that way!
If you don't believe me on my skill and achievements, though, that's fine; I walk the talk, and I bring receipts.
Well, like I said: "You may be or may not be the player I’m thinking of."
How much did you pay for all that? The same I paid for my carries? Or did you achieve it all on your own while expecting everyone else to pay? I see…
You won’t find me in Discord groups, and the reason is simple: I’m too tired of all the toxicity about builds in there. I just can’t handle it anymore on Discord.
You pro players go happy in Discord; I go happy with Group Finder. You pros create all this “toxicity” around new players, casual players, and anyone who doesn’t follow your rules, gatekeeping, elitism, and all that. Meanwhile, I play with pugs, just logging in, learning, and trying to improve.
Maybe one day I’ll have all that without paying like you did… I mean… no, I pay, not you.
And I’d definitely love to have all those achievements. But well… I’m too much of a noob to be part of those groups (not enought money), and that’s 100% true.
At the same time, saying that players with 80k DPS can’t do HM trials says a lot about your achievements.
Edited by Athory on March 30, 2026 5:12PM:: [Guild: Tamriel Order] :: Exclusively for players using One‑Bar / HA builds, or items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul RingAbout UsIf you don’t want random players, then don’t ask for them. Build your roster on Discord — not on Group Finder.
*** This guild is exclusively for players who prefer alternative playstyles such as Onebar builds, Heavy Attack builds (HA), or using items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul Ring. ***- Do you ever feel discouraged when you see “no HA players” or “no Oakensoul players” in Group Finder?
- Do you avoid joining groups because you're worried about being judged or kicked?
Then this is exactly where you belong.
*** We are building a group of players who simply want to enjoy the game, learn mechanics at their own pace, and improve naturally over time.
No pressure, no strict meta requirements, no 120k parses — just steady progress and clear understanding of mechanics.
Our goal is simple:
First we learn → then we become consistent → then we get faster → and when the group truly feels ready, we push into Hard Modes together.
*** Minimum requirement: CP800.
This ensures everyone has the baseline stats needed for HM content and helps us maintain a strong, capable team.
*** We value teamwork, respect, patience, and a positive attitude above all else.
Everyone is here to improve — no ego, no toxicity.
If you're looking for a guild where you can grow, feel comfortable, and still clear some of the hardest content ESO has to offer, this is your place."WE DON'T USE DISCORD!"
Recruitment Headline
*** In this guild, we don’t care if you parse 70k less or 200k more than others.
We don’t care about numbers at all — what matters is handling mechanics:
exploding curses outside the group in vRG, swapping mirrors, doing assignments correctly, and keeping runs clean.
By around CP800, any player can reach ~60–70k DPS baseline, and that’s enough to complete almost any trial HM.
For trifectas, yes, we push DPS because of timers — but for Hard Modes, we take our time without pressure.
If you can handle mechanics, you’re welcome here. ***/!\"I have zero tolerance for toxicity regarding other players’ builds or DPS. If you don’t like someone’s setup for any reason, you’re free to leave the group. But if you choose to stay, then support others in every way you can." - @Zaan’s
Why this?I allways run GF to help others since I already have all trial items. But, I noticed: most groups are full of 2bar players doing lowers DPS then 1bar players, and RD keep gatekeeping 1bar players for no reason at all.
It made me realize I’ve been spending my time helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need my help, 1bar players need.2 -
RaikaNA✭✭✭✭✭
✭HatchetHaro wrote: »Of course people can play how they want to play. It's just that if they join a group and they underperform in their precious one-bar builds, we get to kick them because we play how we want to play: not carrying some buffoon!
Look, when you join a group, you are expected to carry your own weight. Any amount of damage you aren't able to do, the rest of the group has to deal with in the form of longer fight times, more mechanics, more chances of death, and more chances at wiping. So if you bring your Oakensoul build into a trial and you deal at least around average dps in the group, you're golden. But if you start to fall behind, people will start questioning your build.
This post pretty much sums things up. Nobody is hating anyone for using a 1 bar Oakensoul setup, but when you start joining an endgaming veteran trial like vLC that has a DPS check, you are expected to pull your weight... In some trials like Cloudrest... you're gonna be killing your team mates with your 1 bar build because there is a mechanic that requires you to switch bars! It's okay that you feel comfortable with your Oakensoul build, but don't join endgaming trials that require a lot of DPS to do. Unless if you've bought a carrying service... nobody wants to carry you... That's the harsh reality.3 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blood_again wrote: »I hope necroing this April 2025 outdated topic really worth it.
Totally worth it, it is a popular PLAYSTYLE that a large portion of the player base enjoys playing. What else is this forum for, as long as people are constructive about trying to find solutions. Many of the issues from 2025 are still persistent today, as only nerfs have accumulated really.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess they could buff it in a way to make them better with flat generic damage boosts. Did you use heavy attacks before the destro staff nerfs? It was a night and day difference to me. Heavy attack builds are just no longer fun for solo farming, for me. Before everything died at a similar time, now you are killing things one at a time mostly, unless there is a boss or heavy health enemy in the middle to splash from.
The DK reworked fire breath feels better, and obviously even beaming with no crux generated feels better. I guess we'll see if sorcerers get enough love to make them more fun, as they are the most popular heavy attack class. I have tried the reworked DK as a heavy attack, I do like the passive off balance and stamina regen.
I think I made my first HA build around the time of these changes so I don't have a lot of experience with it before the changes.
I have 2 Sorcerers that both use Oakensoul and HA, but their builds and how I play them are different and one uses HA way more than the other. My Templar and Necromancer both use Oakensoul and can heavy attack but generally don't. My Arcanist also uses Oakensoul but dual wields so never uses HA.
My only characters that don't use Oakensoul are my Nightblade and Dragonknight but I don't bar swap on them either. I keep a bow and bow skills on their back bars for times they need ranged attacks.
I certainly don't have any answers. I just want to be able to carry my own weight while playing how I enjoy, and not be looked down upon for it.
Edited by SilverBride on March 30, 2026 5:46PMPCNA0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Peak was not 75k in U35. U35 buffed the trial dummy in such a way that, while some builds saw less damage, others saw more. And before U35? My ROLEPLAY bleed themed build was hitting 90k and my ROLEPLAY frost themed build was hitting 100k iirc. At the time, those were good numbers… but it was not peak. 75k was bad at the time. I joined in 2019 and I have never seen 65k be considered anything but terrible. My first parse, using a Xynode build incorrectly, was 55k.
Right now, 120k is becoming an increasingly common cutoff value, though it wasn’t unheard of before. Before, I recall a 100k cutoff. Before then, it might have been 80k. But I don’t recall seeing it any lower than that (edit: and reminder, those values are BEFORE the dummy got buffed).
Ok, I could have been wrong about the DP, I made that table off the top of my head, didn’t look at logs or anything. But I still stand by my point: why can’t a group with 640k DPS complete any HM? (80k per player)
Where’s the “how much dps is needed per person in Rockgrove” statisticians when you need them…
There are DPS checks. Some are self-inflicted because of the strats chosen. Others are kill-or-wipe. Then there’s the third, secret DPS check and that’s “how long can this fight last before people lose focus, get frustrated with wiping, the supports get tired (support jobs can get exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on), we get swarmed by adds, or we fail to executing mechanics poorly because we’re getting more mechanics than a higher dps group?”. Mind you also, 80k in vCR+3 using old strats? That would work. 80k in OC HM? Well, OC HM is balanced around the current meta. That one might not go so well…Edited by Soarora on March 30, 2026 5:21PM[PC/NA] Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS), Retired Trialist, and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore.- Current GM of Hard Dungeoneers
- Tanks: Sorcerer - Necromancer - Templar
- DPS: Frost Warden - Stamarc
- Ex-healer
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 26/26 Tris
View my builds!
3 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Based on current carry prices in one of the guilds I'm in, all the trifectas and side-achievements (not counting Maw of Lorkhaj) in that screenshot would cost me 2,460,000,000 gold.HatchetHaro wrote: »Good news! I don't see you in any of the raiding Discord servers I'm in, so chances are, we've never met. Let us keep it that way!
If you don't believe me on my skill and achievements, though, that's fine; I walk the talk, and I bring receipts.
Well, like I said: "You may be or may not be the player I’m thinking of."
How much did you pay for all that? The same I paid for my carries? Or did you achieve it all on your own while expecting everyone else to pay? I see…
You won’t find me in Discord groups, and the reason is simple: I’m too tired of all the toxicity about builds in there. I just can’t handle it anymore on Discord.
You pro players go happy in Discord; I go happy with Group Finder. You pros create all this “toxicity” around new players, casual players, and anyone who doesn’t follow your rules, gatekeeping, elitism, and all that. Meanwhile, I play with pugs, just logging in, learning, and trying to improve.
Maybe one day I’ll have all that without paying like you did… I mean… no, I pay, not you.
And I’d definitely love to have all those achievements. But well… I’m too much of a noob to be part of those groups (not enought money), and that’s 100% true.
At the same time, saying that players with 80k DPS can’t do HM trials says a lot about your achievements.
I wish I was that rich. Nah, I have vods of all of my trifecta clears since Godslayer. Like I said, I walk the talk.
But hey, go off about elitism and toxicity and all that; that attitude will surely help you get into a guild at some point, I'm certain of it!
Edited by HatchetHaro on March 30, 2026 5:37PMBest Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 7x GH, 7x TTT, 5x GS, 6x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained3 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭You won’t find me in Discord groups, and the reason is simple: I’m too tired of all the toxicity about builds in there. I just can’t handle it anymore on Discord.
That is kind of generalization about Discords. Sure I have seen a few that are pretty bad about it, but they are the minority. If you're on PC-NA, I can recommend at least three solid group/guild discords that aren't too toxic. A few are actually the opposite.
Maxwell House Gamers/Guards/etc. family - The guild master has created one of the cleanest looking event lineups I've seen. It was one of my earlier guilds to join, and I just never left. Overall good people and they try to have a guild trader for all their guilds.Requirements: Tanks and healers should have at least one dps buff set. DPS should be comfortably parsing around 50k+.
Skooma Emporium, less family oriented if you like it a little more spicy. One of the few groups that regularly cleared most vet trial runs blind or within a few days. They do trial of the week/leaderboard Wednesdays, Saturday and Sunday are voters choice. Anyone can sign up, guild get priority. They have maintained a guild trader in Belkarth for a real long time. There has been a membership downturn, but a good group of people. They are how I got many of my hard mode clears.Requirements:
Sales: None, Just sell!
4 Person Dungeons/Arenas Vet: CP600 Vet DLC / Arenas CP800
Wednesday Weeklies: CP800 + Specific Experience
Open DLC Vet Trials: CP800
Open Craglorn Vet Trials: CP300
Backups: Who ever is in chat at raid time will be given priority in the order they signed up.
The third group O-grows discord is more casual and don't run every week, but once or twice a week. I ran a vRG HM prog with them for awhile. I still have Bahsei PTSD, but we were getting her down to 10% for awhile there. It is usually more of a closer group of friends that sign up with Raid Helper there but I think it is pretty open to others. I found them through the group finder, I think that is how many people landed there, or friends of friends.
For the clear is another one but it does tend to have a bit higher requirements, but they don't seem to always adhere to the requests all the time. I actually just joined them, as they felt closer of a fit then the other bigger trial guilds.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Agree, theory crafting in Kerbal space program was just rocket science so pretty intuitive compared to ESO 😺SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I hate bar swapping so I was thrilled when Oakensoul was introduced. But now for some reason there is a stigma attached to using it. The most logical answer I can see is to buff it so that it's comparable to 2 bar builds so we can all play how we enjoy.
Oakensoul isn't the issue, it was the destro staff passives nerfing the cleave and the fact that most other weapon types don't synergize with heavy attacks the same. Since then, ZoS has also nerfed some of the class skills that gave passive buffs. One thing that would help is more sources of higher duration empower. I never understood why scribing didn't help out with that. most non-oakensoul heavy attack builds rely on spamming mages guild abilities which is only like 10 seconds of empower.
I probably have less understanding of how skills affect each other than most players here because theorycrafting makes my head explode. But I will never bar swap so even if Oakensoul isn't the issue why can't it be the solution?
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Eskibidus✭✭✭If you are not min/maxing, are you really playing?
Jokes aside, as long as you know the mechanics of trials, there are no problems with oak.🤡0 -
Athory✭✭✭Where’s the “how much dps is needed per person in Rockgrove” statisticians when you need them…
There are DPS checks. Some are self-inflicted because of the strats chosen. Others are kill-or-wipe. Then there’s the third, secret DPS check and that’s “how long can this fight last before people lose focus, get frustrated with wiping, the supports get tired (support jobs can get exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on), we get swarmed by adds, or we fail to executing mechanics poorly because we’re getting more mechanics than a higher dps group?”. Mind you also, 80k in vCR+3 using old strats? That would work. 80k in OC HM? Well, OC HM is balanced around the current meta. That one might not go so well…
So we agree that 80k DPS (640k group) is enough to complete any HM trial? Okay… maybe not vOC. But 100k DPS should be enough for vOC, right? Any “casual” player can reach 100k in onebar these days, so no problem there. 800K DPS seems enought.
Will these groups be faster than World Record players? Of course not. So why are we even comparing them to one-bar players?! The point is: "Why the hate for one-bar builds?" if any 1bar with 80k player can complete any HM trial? Sure, it might take more time, but will they get it done? Absolutely. That’s more than enough!
@HatchetHaroYou don’t need to post your videos because I really don’t care. I respect your achievements, I really do, but I don’t care, because our ideas of how the game should go are too different.
We have two completely different points of view on this topic. I want to make it clear:
1) I say; any 1bar player with 80k is more than enough to complete any veteran trial or even any HM trial. If just one player on the forum understands this, then I’ll be happy, and my objective is accomplished.
2) On the other hand, it seems like you’re saying it’s impossible for 1bar players with 80k DPS to do veteran trials. It’s almost like you’re saying: “If you can’t parse 150k to complete the same achievements as me, you’re useless.”
It feels like you’re putting other players down because they don’t have your achievements. If one player believes in me, and I give them any motivation so they can achieve even more than me (not hard, though), then I’ll be very, very happy.
And no, I don’t have Discord, and I don’t have guilds. I’m the kind of player who doesn’t give a penny about your rules (or raid leaders) and DPS numbers when playing any veteran HM or trial. I know what I can do, I know 100% what HA can do, and to play like that and improve, I don’t need anyone telling me what I can or can’t do.
As for trifectas, mechanics, tips, or 2bar improvements to reach more than 140k, etc.... that’s a completely different story and doesn’t fit into this topic at all. At this point, maybe you’re the kind of player who could actually help me, and help others.
Edited by Athory on March 30, 2026 6:00PM:: [Guild: Tamriel Order] :: Exclusively for players using One‑Bar / HA builds, or items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul RingAbout UsIf you don’t want random players, then don’t ask for them. Build your roster on Discord — not on Group Finder.
*** This guild is exclusively for players who prefer alternative playstyles such as Onebar builds, Heavy Attack builds (HA), or using items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul Ring. ***- Do you ever feel discouraged when you see “no HA players” or “no Oakensoul players” in Group Finder?
- Do you avoid joining groups because you're worried about being judged or kicked?
Then this is exactly where you belong.
*** We are building a group of players who simply want to enjoy the game, learn mechanics at their own pace, and improve naturally over time.
No pressure, no strict meta requirements, no 120k parses — just steady progress and clear understanding of mechanics.
Our goal is simple:
First we learn → then we become consistent → then we get faster → and when the group truly feels ready, we push into Hard Modes together.
*** Minimum requirement: CP800.
This ensures everyone has the baseline stats needed for HM content and helps us maintain a strong, capable team.
*** We value teamwork, respect, patience, and a positive attitude above all else.
Everyone is here to improve — no ego, no toxicity.
If you're looking for a guild where you can grow, feel comfortable, and still clear some of the hardest content ESO has to offer, this is your place."WE DON'T USE DISCORD!"
Recruitment Headline
*** In this guild, we don’t care if you parse 70k less or 200k more than others.
We don’t care about numbers at all — what matters is handling mechanics:
exploding curses outside the group in vRG, swapping mirrors, doing assignments correctly, and keeping runs clean.
By around CP800, any player can reach ~60–70k DPS baseline, and that’s enough to complete almost any trial HM.
For trifectas, yes, we push DPS because of timers — but for Hard Modes, we take our time without pressure.
If you can handle mechanics, you’re welcome here. ***/!\"I have zero tolerance for toxicity regarding other players’ builds or DPS. If you don’t like someone’s setup for any reason, you’re free to leave the group. But if you choose to stay, then support others in every way you can." - @Zaan’s
Why this?I allways run GF to help others since I already have all trial items. But, I noticed: most groups are full of 2bar players doing lowers DPS then 1bar players, and RD keep gatekeeping 1bar players for no reason at all.
It made me realize I’ve been spending my time helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need my help, 1bar players need.0 -
DoofusMax✭✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »I'm not sure what you're arguing here; I'm agreeing with you, and I'm ready to be that wart in the random dungeon queue. Let us all underperform together! Nothing bad will happen when we all underperform and fail to complete a dungeon together!
Misunderstanding on my end. Thank you for the clarification.I'm fresh out of outrage, but I could muster up some amused annoyance if required.1 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you are not min/maxing, are you really playing?
Jokes aside, as long as you know the mechanics of trials, there are no problems with oak.
My heavy sorc did the "healer kite" position, freeing the 2nd healer up to heal more. We cleared vAS+2 for the first time for a few guildies. My dps wasn't optimal as it was harder to reach some of the protectors, and I did die once or twice. It was fun to do something different, and I think the healer enjoyed the break.
The biggest issue is that normal people are not doing 150k+ damage and ZoS keeps balancing around the ever increasing numbers. I guess it might be possible for a oakensorc to hit 100k, but I think the last time I tried (pre sorc skill nerfs) was around 85-90k. Oakensoul could do with a flat heavy attack damage buff, or empower could be buffed even more. Rakkhat voidmantle could also do with some buffing or adding empower to it.0 -
Athory✭✭✭@HatchetHaro, Let me ask you this, and please don’t take me the wrong way, my question is simple:
You say everyone needs to carry their own weight, and I agree with that. But, you mentioned "they carry me" because I was in HA, and you assuming, rightly or wrongly, that I was the last DPS. Are you implying that the last 3 DPS is automatically being carried by others? If so…
I watched your Trifecta video, and I noticed your name isn’t the top DPS in the group. In fact, it looks like you weren’t leading DPS on the first and last bosses ( almost last DPS??), And on the second boss, are you carrying everyone else behind you?! Don’t get me wrong, mate, but if they had swapped you out for someone with higher DPS, wouldn’t the overall score have been better?
So were you being carried as well? If not, I’m genuinely trying to understand the difference here. If you, or anyone else, are the last DPS, in 2bars, that’s considered fine, but if it’s an HA player in a pugs run, it’s suddenly called a carry?
EDIT:
Oh… I just looked at your vLC run too. You were definitely being carried there. It’s all good, mate, it happens to everyone, and it happens to me a lot as well, whether I’m running one-bar or two-bar setups. Yep…
How does it feel to have all your achievements only because others carried you for free?
Edited by Athory on March 30, 2026 6:32PM:: [Guild: Tamriel Order] :: Exclusively for players using One‑Bar / HA builds, or items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul RingAbout UsIf you don’t want random players, then don’t ask for them. Build your roster on Discord — not on Group Finder.
*** This guild is exclusively for players who prefer alternative playstyles such as Onebar builds, Heavy Attack builds (HA), or using items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul Ring. ***- Do you ever feel discouraged when you see “no HA players” or “no Oakensoul players” in Group Finder?
- Do you avoid joining groups because you're worried about being judged or kicked?
Then this is exactly where you belong.
*** We are building a group of players who simply want to enjoy the game, learn mechanics at their own pace, and improve naturally over time.
No pressure, no strict meta requirements, no 120k parses — just steady progress and clear understanding of mechanics.
Our goal is simple:
First we learn → then we become consistent → then we get faster → and when the group truly feels ready, we push into Hard Modes together.
*** Minimum requirement: CP800.
This ensures everyone has the baseline stats needed for HM content and helps us maintain a strong, capable team.
*** We value teamwork, respect, patience, and a positive attitude above all else.
Everyone is here to improve — no ego, no toxicity.
If you're looking for a guild where you can grow, feel comfortable, and still clear some of the hardest content ESO has to offer, this is your place."WE DON'T USE DISCORD!"
Recruitment Headline
*** In this guild, we don’t care if you parse 70k less or 200k more than others.
We don’t care about numbers at all — what matters is handling mechanics:
exploding curses outside the group in vRG, swapping mirrors, doing assignments correctly, and keeping runs clean.
By around CP800, any player can reach ~60–70k DPS baseline, and that’s enough to complete almost any trial HM.
For trifectas, yes, we push DPS because of timers — but for Hard Modes, we take our time without pressure.
If you can handle mechanics, you’re welcome here. ***/!\"I have zero tolerance for toxicity regarding other players’ builds or DPS. If you don’t like someone’s setup for any reason, you’re free to leave the group. But if you choose to stay, then support others in every way you can." - @Zaan’s
Why this?I allways run GF to help others since I already have all trial items. But, I noticed: most groups are full of 2bar players doing lowers DPS then 1bar players, and RD keep gatekeeping 1bar players for no reason at all.
It made me realize I’ve been spending my time helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need my help, 1bar players need.0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where’s the “how much dps is needed per person in Rockgrove” statisticians when you need them…
There are DPS checks. Some are self-inflicted because of the strats chosen. Others are kill-or-wipe. Then there’s the third, secret DPS check and that’s “how long can this fight last before people lose focus, get frustrated with wiping, the supports get tired (support jobs can get exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on), we get swarmed by adds, or we fail to executing mechanics poorly because we’re getting more mechanics than a higher dps group?”. Mind you also, 80k in vCR+3 using old strats? That would work. 80k in OC HM? Well, OC HM is balanced around the current meta. That one might not go so well…
So we agree that 80k DPS (640k group) is enough to complete any HM trial? Okay… maybe not vOC. But 100k DPS should be enough for vOC, right? Any “casual” player can reach 100k in onebar these days, so no problem there. 800K DPS seems enought.
Will these groups be faster than World Record players? Of course not. So why are we even comparing them to one-bar players?! The point is: "Why the hate for one-bar builds?" if any 1bar with 80k player can complete any HM trial? Sure, it might take more time, but will they get it done? Absolutely. That’s more than enough!
No, we don’t agree. Some trials would be possible, but as trials come out, they are balanced around current damage. I wouldn’t trust 80k dps in anything DSR HM and onwards.
I don’t think anyone mentioned world record players except for you. I’m not a world record player and my best parse on live is 126K. Once Night Market comes out, I can outfit my roleplay Warden build to hit 130k… and I’m pretty mid by endgame dps standards in terms of personal skill. World record players are the ones hitting 180k.
You should try tanking in a low DPS group, it’ll be enlightening.[PC/NA] Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS), Retired Trialist, and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore.- Current GM of Hard Dungeoneers
- Tanks: Sorcerer - Necromancer - Templar
- DPS: Frost Warden - Stamarc
- Ex-healer
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 26/26 Tris
View my builds!
4 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I hate bar swapping so I was thrilled when Oakensoul was introduced. But now for some reason there is a stigma attached to using it. The most logical answer I can see is to buff it so that it's comparable to 2 bar builds so we can all play how we enjoy.
Oakensoul isn't the issue, it was the destro staff passives nerfing the cleave and the fact that most other weapon types don't synergize with heavy attacks the same. Since then, ZoS has also nerfed some of the class skills that gave passive buffs. One thing that would help is more sources of higher duration empower. I never understood why scribing didn't help out with that. most non-oakensoul heavy attack builds rely on spamming mages guild abilities which is only like 10 seconds of empower.
I probably have less understanding of how skills affect each other than most players here because theorycrafting makes my head explode. But I will never bar swap so even if Oakensoul isn't the issue why can't it be the solution?
The problem isn't really that mythic. I see people do great in content, even dlc hm trial content with it or a 1 bar build. The problem is there has been this attitude that became the stereotype for 1 bar players. You see it in this thread. They get a bad wrap for an unwillingness to learn, an attitude that everyone is against them and if you give suggestions or tell them something then you're a gatekeeping elitist. Who wants to play with that? That's not all 1 bar players but the attitude is there, I've experienced it in content. You want to sign up for a vet run in any of my guilds, come with a willingness to learn or to have fun playing the content. That's it. If your dps isn't high enough, no big deal. We can work on it.5 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where’s the “how much dps is needed per person in Rockgrove” statisticians when you need them…
There are DPS checks. Some are self-inflicted because of the strats chosen. Others are kill-or-wipe. Then there’s the third, secret DPS check and that’s “how long can this fight last before people lose focus, get frustrated with wiping, the supports get tired (support jobs can get exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on), we get swarmed by adds, or we fail to executing mechanics poorly because we’re getting more mechanics than a higher dps group?”. Mind you also, 80k in vCR+3 using old strats? That would work. 80k in OC HM? Well, OC HM is balanced around the current meta. That one might not go so well…
So we agree that 80k DPS (640k group) is enough to complete any HM trial? Okay… maybe not vOC. But 100k DPS should be enough for vOC, right? Any “casual” player can reach 100k in onebar these days, so no problem there. 800K DPS seems enought.
Will these groups be faster than World Record players? Of course not. So why are we even comparing them to one-bar players?! The point is: "Why the hate for one-bar builds?" if any 1bar with 80k player can complete any HM trial? Sure, it might take more time, but will they get it done? Absolutely. That’s more than enough!
No, we don’t agree. Some trials would be possible, but as trials come out, they are balanced around current damage. I wouldn’t trust 80k dps in anything DSR HM and onwards.
I don’t think anyone mentioned world record players except for you. I’m not a world record player and my best parse on live is 126K. Once Night Market comes out, I can outfit my roleplay Warden build to hit 130k… and I’m pretty mid by endgame dps standards in terms of personal skill. World record players are the ones hitting 180k.
You should try tanking in a low DPS group, it’ll be enlightening.
Telling him to tank a low dps trial is diabolical.2 -
Athory✭✭✭@twisttop138 I truly understand that. But low DPS comes from “bad” players, no matter what build they use, right? Bad one-bar players do low DPS, but bad two-bar players do even less. I really understand your point about how diabolical it is for tanks in a low-DPS trial, but how does that put him in the "hate against 1bar players"??:: [Guild: Tamriel Order] :: Exclusively for players using One‑Bar / HA builds, or items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul RingAbout UsIf you don’t want random players, then don’t ask for them. Build your roster on Discord — not on Group Finder.
*** This guild is exclusively for players who prefer alternative playstyles such as Onebar builds, Heavy Attack builds (HA), or using items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul Ring. ***- Do you ever feel discouraged when you see “no HA players” or “no Oakensoul players” in Group Finder?
- Do you avoid joining groups because you're worried about being judged or kicked?
Then this is exactly where you belong.
*** We are building a group of players who simply want to enjoy the game, learn mechanics at their own pace, and improve naturally over time.
No pressure, no strict meta requirements, no 120k parses — just steady progress and clear understanding of mechanics.
Our goal is simple:
First we learn → then we become consistent → then we get faster → and when the group truly feels ready, we push into Hard Modes together.
*** Minimum requirement: CP800.
This ensures everyone has the baseline stats needed for HM content and helps us maintain a strong, capable team.
*** We value teamwork, respect, patience, and a positive attitude above all else.
Everyone is here to improve — no ego, no toxicity.
If you're looking for a guild where you can grow, feel comfortable, and still clear some of the hardest content ESO has to offer, this is your place."WE DON'T USE DISCORD!"
Recruitment Headline
*** In this guild, we don’t care if you parse 70k less or 200k more than others.
We don’t care about numbers at all — what matters is handling mechanics:
exploding curses outside the group in vRG, swapping mirrors, doing assignments correctly, and keeping runs clean.
By around CP800, any player can reach ~60–70k DPS baseline, and that’s enough to complete almost any trial HM.
For trifectas, yes, we push DPS because of timers — but for Hard Modes, we take our time without pressure.
If you can handle mechanics, you’re welcome here. ***/!\"I have zero tolerance for toxicity regarding other players’ builds or DPS. If you don’t like someone’s setup for any reason, you’re free to leave the group. But if you choose to stay, then support others in every way you can." - @Zaan’s
Why this?I allways run GF to help others since I already have all trial items. But, I noticed: most groups are full of 2bar players doing lowers DPS then 1bar players, and RD keep gatekeeping 1bar players for no reason at all.
It made me realize I’ve been spending my time helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need my help, 1bar players need.0 -
JiubLeRepenti✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »IMO ZOS needs to buff oakensoul, bring it back to some semblance of its former glory.
My suggestion. Keep the buffs as they are, but allow for one more slot. Use the keybind on PC/console that swaps bars for that extra ability.
The most frustrating thing I find about oakensoul is the lack of that one extra ability
The way I see it, any build should have an
• Execute
• Spamable
• Heal
• Shield
• Dot
• Ult
We should add one for
• Utility (pull, taunt, stun, etc)
Most of my toons are one bar builds, and its not due to disliking bar swapping in as much as my ping is terrible and bar swapping is not reliable.
If the above suggestion is too much for some people who will claim it will be "OP" (which it wont) then the minimum ZOS could do is allow back bar passives to affect the front bar like it used to.
I don't agree with you on this.
I've spent countless hours parsing, parsing, parsing and parsing again with two bars to be able to bring my chadplar to its best and have a top dps.
I don't see why a player who has spent barely no time in training could have 75-80% of my results with Oakensoul.
If I've been working in the same company during 20 years, and make 60k$ per year, it would drive me crazy to see a rookie doing the same job make 45-50k$ per year after 2 years of duty. That's just not fair to me.
+ Oakensoul is already OP. You can reach 120k with it like a charm on any toon thanks to subclasses:
https://youtu.be/O1DeP_mT2rI?si=cKqkDSVPL71A9aNz Edited by JiubLeRepenti on March 30, 2026 7:01PMBE/FR l PC EU l CP2700
TES III Morrowind biggest fan!
A little snail once told me there were no place for debate anymore.
Now, i'll simply MAKE FUN OF IT!3 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ooh, I'll be very happy to answer your questions!@HatchetHaro, Let me ask you this, and please don’t take me the wrong way, my question is simple:
You say everyone needs to carry their own weight, and I agree with that. But, you mentioned "they carry me" because I was in HA, and you assuming, rightly or wrongly, that I was the last DPS. Are you implying that the last 3 DPS is automatically being carried by others? If so…
I watched your Trifecta video, and I noticed your name isn’t the top DPS in the group. In fact, it looks like you weren’t leading DPS on the first and last bosses (Last DPS??). Don’t get me wrong, mate, but if they had swapped you out for someone with higher DPS, wouldn’t the overall score have been better?
So were you being carried as well? If not, I’m genuinely trying to understand the difference here. If you, or anyone else, are the last DPS, in 2bars, that’s considered fine, but if it’s an HA player in a pugs run, it’s suddenly called a carry?
Before that, some context: the video in question is of my second Misery's Master trifecta in Ossein Cage, running with Overparse and Underperform, which was a group in Aedra formed for the sole goal of achieving that trifecta. I've had a good amount of influence on the strategies used in that run, mainly on the Jynorrah and Skorkhif fight; the More Markers markers used were almost all made by me through many revisions of testing and fine-tuning.
1. Shapers of Flesh
The first boss is the Shapers of Flesh. Here's the mechanics: the actual boss itself (the Shapers of Flesh, shielded blobs around the room) does not matter as much as killing the additional enemies during the fight. What actually do need to be focused down are 1. Fleshspawns (which spawn an Abomination when they get close to another Fleshspawn), 2. Harvesters (which spawn a massive fire wave that oneshots almost anyone), 3. Abominations of Flesh (which are a pain for the tanks to deal with if there are multiple of them up), and 4. Realm Shapers (which spawn high-damaging waves that can potentially kill someone). The Hodor Reflexes parse leaderboard is ordered by boss damage (again, the shielded blobs), which actually matters the least in the fight. That's why you'll find me choosing instead to prebuff my DoTs for next waves of enemies.
Here are some screenshots from the log of that very same fight, showing that I, indeed, was among the top when it comes to focusing the actual key enemies in the fight.
2. Jynorrah and Skorkhif
The second boss is Jynorrah and Skorkhif. To put it simply, these bosses periodically assign curses to their closest 6 players (minus the one with highest resists) which basically prevents 90% damage from those players to their specific assigned boss, so the general strategy is to switch sides and damage the other boss until the curses switch.
You can see from the video itself that I managed to stay in second place in terms of damage up until the very end, when the boss on my side dies first and thus I wasn't able to do damage any more while the other boss was being killed by the other group. I still ended up third highest parse despite that. The top parser, on the other hand, is just in another league.
3. Overfiend Kazpian
The third and final boss is Kazpian. Most of the fight doesn't matter much in terms of speed (as long as the minibosses are killed before they enrage and wipe the arena); where it does matter is 1. portal phases, and 2. execute phase. During portal phases, players have to kill the Pain Channelers quickly before the ramping damage from Caustic Carrion, Distressing Bolt, and Daedric Bombardment overwhelm the healers. In execute, there are more sources of damage towards the players, and so we don't bother with the miniboss (Khrogo) so we can kill Kazpian as quickly as possible to minimize healer stress.
Also, I am one of the Barrier casters in execute, so I am 1. missing a key burst ult in the form of Languid Eye, and 2. skipping out on 3 whole Soul Harvest casts in execute just so I can cast Barrier.
And I still top-parse the execute phase. Using Barrier.
I hope that satisfies your curiosity! Like I said, I walk the talk.
Anyways, what happened to not caring? You seem to care enough to watch at least one of the vods@HatchetHaro
You don’t need to post your videos because I really don’t care. I respect your achievements, I really do, but I don’t care, because our ideas of how the game should go are too different.
Edited by HatchetHaro on March 31, 2026 2:35AMBest Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
20 Argonians
6x IR, 7x GH, 7x TTT, 5x GS, 6x DB, 1x PB, 4x SBS, 1x MM, 1x US, 2x CB, 1x Unchained7 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@twisttop138 I truly understand that. But low DPS comes from “bad” players, no matter what build they use, right? Bad one-bar players do low DPS, but bad two-bar players do even less. I really understand your point about how diabolical it is for tanks in a low-DPS trial, but how does that put him in the "hate against 1bar players"??
Humans categorize, we like our boxes.
A large amount of experiences with oakensoul players include one or more of the following:
- “DPS doesn’t matter, mechanics matter” (proceeds to be bad at damage AND mechanics) (this is also applicable to endgame’s view of casuals)
- Standing behind the healer, even if they’re told to come in (this is also applicable to the view of bow users)
- Questionable build choices and complete resistance to any constructive criticism (also applicable to endgame’s view of casuals)
When it’s enough of them, it’s statistically safer to avoid them all. The only oakensoul players I recall having pleasant experiences with are people who have played or continue to play 2-bar. Meanwhile, the worst and yet also the most intense over builds players I’ve witnessed have been oakensoul-only players.[PC/NA] Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS), Retired Trialist, and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore.- Current GM of Hard Dungeoneers
- Tanks: Sorcerer - Necromancer - Templar
- DPS: Frost Warden - Stamarc
- Ex-healer
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 26/26 Tris
View my builds!
5 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭@twisttop138 I truly understand that. But low DPS comes from “bad” players, no matter what build they use, right? Bad one-bar players do low DPS, but bad two-bar players do even less. I really understand your point about how diabolical it is for tanks in a low-DPS trial, but how does that put him in the "hate against 1bar players"??
The comment had nothing to do with 1 bars or 2 bars or anything else. If you've tanked before, you know that it can be torturous to be the guy dealing with the mechs while your dps don't do great. I do this a lot. I tank for my social guild, we have no requirement trials. They're for learning. I can sometimes be the tank for a fight that lasts as long as I would be able to do the entire trial in my raid guild. But that's ok. It's for teaching. Not everything is about 1 or 2 bars.2 -
Athory✭✭✭Ok, ok. So you carry all the others? I’m trying to understand what "carry your own weight" really means, since so many players in 2bar setups always use this argument… So what does it really mean? After all, you’re not just the carry player, you carry them all. Is that it?:: [Guild: Tamriel Order] :: Exclusively for players using One‑Bar / HA builds, or items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul RingAbout UsIf you don’t want random players, then don’t ask for them. Build your roster on Discord — not on Group Finder.
*** This guild is exclusively for players who prefer alternative playstyles such as Onebar builds, Heavy Attack builds (HA), or using items like Rakkhat's Voidmantle or Oakensoul Ring. ***- Do you ever feel discouraged when you see “no HA players” or “no Oakensoul players” in Group Finder?
- Do you avoid joining groups because you're worried about being judged or kicked?
Then this is exactly where you belong.
*** We are building a group of players who simply want to enjoy the game, learn mechanics at their own pace, and improve naturally over time.
No pressure, no strict meta requirements, no 120k parses — just steady progress and clear understanding of mechanics.
Our goal is simple:
First we learn → then we become consistent → then we get faster → and when the group truly feels ready, we push into Hard Modes together.
*** Minimum requirement: CP800.
This ensures everyone has the baseline stats needed for HM content and helps us maintain a strong, capable team.
*** We value teamwork, respect, patience, and a positive attitude above all else.
Everyone is here to improve — no ego, no toxicity.
If you're looking for a guild where you can grow, feel comfortable, and still clear some of the hardest content ESO has to offer, this is your place."WE DON'T USE DISCORD!"
Recruitment Headline
*** In this guild, we don’t care if you parse 70k less or 200k more than others.
We don’t care about numbers at all — what matters is handling mechanics:
exploding curses outside the group in vRG, swapping mirrors, doing assignments correctly, and keeping runs clean.
By around CP800, any player can reach ~60–70k DPS baseline, and that’s enough to complete almost any trial HM.
For trifectas, yes, we push DPS because of timers — but for Hard Modes, we take our time without pressure.
If you can handle mechanics, you’re welcome here. ***/!\"I have zero tolerance for toxicity regarding other players’ builds or DPS. If you don’t like someone’s setup for any reason, you’re free to leave the group. But if you choose to stay, then support others in every way you can." - @Zaan’s
Why this?I allways run GF to help others since I already have all trial items. But, I noticed: most groups are full of 2bar players doing lowers DPS then 1bar players, and RD keep gatekeeping 1bar players for no reason at all.
It made me realize I’ve been spending my time helping the wrong players. 2bar players don’t need my help, 1bar players need.0 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭@twisttop138 I truly understand that. But low DPS comes from “bad” players, no matter what build they use, right? Bad one-bar players do low DPS, but bad two-bar players do even less. I really understand your point about how diabolical it is for tanks in a low-DPS trial, but how does that put him in the "hate against 1bar players"??
Oh also I wanted to mention, though I've mentioned it before. It's not about damage as much as it is the attitude. This attitude of oh I do more dps than him. If you give me any advice or put me in a position you don't like then you're a gatekeeping elitist. I play with 1 bar players who do great damage, in dlc hard mode trials no one ever felt like they were carrying them. But their attitude is, I'm here to play, I'm open to learning, and I'm here to have a good time. No chip on the shoulder.1
