Let tanks do damage

ImPoStier · March 28

In every other MMO, they do around 40% to 60% of a DPS’s damage. I would be happy with 25%, but 5% feels terrible. If tanks could actually do a bit of damage, maybe more people would play them.

Maybe you could add a trial/dungeon modifier like Battle Spirit, where, in an arena, dungeon, or trial, tanks get a massive damage boost so their Wall and Taunt together do around 50k DPS. Make it so it can’t be cheesed. Limit it to two per trial and one per dungeon and arena, and make it prioritise the highest-health players with the tank role. Also, make it only work if you have a taunt.

Empowered Bash every 20 seconds your bash does 200k damage (that’s 10k dps)
Make wall do 10k dps
Empowered taunt every 10 seconds your taunt does 200k damage (that’s 20k dps)
And give tanks thorns, reflect about 5k damage back to attackers, I think this would make tanking way more fun, 40k dps maybe an extra 2.5k to 5k with thorns and not changing how tank is played

Kalthea · March 28

No. If they did have damage, then maybe 10% at the absolute maximum, but nowhere near 25%.

Your job as a tank is to hold the enemy's attention, move them to the correct position, maintain debuffs, call out mechanics, interrupt attacks and provide buffs to your team.

Soarora · March 28

More damage, more power creep…

That said, looking at the pure class passives thus far, I suspect that it might be possible to drop some defense to get more weapon/spell damage and do a bit more damage. Or just proccing the damage pure class passives. Like the trade-off is you either subclass and get more debuffs or pure class and do some damage. We’ll find out later on though, probably not until it hits live. I might mess with it but I don’t have confidence that I’ll try doing any dungeon HMs on the PTS.

Necrotech_Master · March 28

for general overland, its already possible to get a tanky character that does 16k dps (almost 50% of an avg expected dps toons dps)

this is on a non optimized build or anything, all i did was throw herald of the tome on and use the arc beams as primary source of dmg lol

for optimized end game content though this just wouldnt work because tanks absolutely need 100% of their build dedicated to staying alive

ImPoStier · March 28

Kalthea wrote: »

No. If they did have damage, then maybe 10% at the absolute maximum, but nowhere near 25%.

Your job as a tank is to hold the enemy's attention, move them to the correct position, maintain debuffs, call out mechanics, interrupt attacks and provide buffs to your team.

Yeah that’s what they do in every mmo, but they only do 0 damage in eso, why do they need to be doing 0 damage? I get it for PvP balance but my idea doesn’t affect PvP

ImPoStier · March 28

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for general overland, its already possible to get a tanky character that does 16k dps (almost 50% of an avg expected dps toons dps)

this is on a non optimized build or anything, all i did was throw herald of the tome on and use the arc beams as primary source of dmg lol

for optimized end game content though this just wouldnt work because tanks absolutely need 100% of their build dedicated to staying alive

I’m just talking about buffing their damage skills they already use, they do about 5k dps in raids on meta builds

ImPoStier · March 28

Soarora wrote: »

More damage, more power creep…

That said, looking at the pure class passives thus far, I suspect that it might be possible to drop some defense to get more weapon/spell damage and do a bit more damage. Or just proccing the damage pure class passives. Like the trade-off is you either subclass and get more debuffs or pure class and do some damage. We’ll find out later on though, probably not until it hits live. I might mess with it but I don’t have confidence that I’ll try doing any dungeon HMs on the PTS.

We are away to get the most power creep we have ever had, and I don’t want to sacrifice utility for damage, I just want a battle spirit type buff on tanks to give them more passive damage, maybe more people will play tank if they can so something, I might actually queue for random dungeons on tank if I knew it wasn’t gonna take 45 minutes

Necrotech_Master · March 28

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

Soarora · March 28

ImPoStier wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

More damage, more power creep…

That said, looking at the pure class passives thus far, I suspect that it might be possible to drop some defense to get more weapon/spell damage and do a bit more damage. Or just proccing the damage pure class passives. Like the trade-off is you either subclass and get more debuffs or pure class and do some damage. We’ll find out later on though, probably not until it hits live. I might mess with it but I don’t have confidence that I’ll try doing any dungeon HMs on the PTS.

We are away to get the most power creep we have ever had, and I don’t want to sacrifice utility for damage, I just want a battle spirit type buff on tanks to give them more passive damage, maybe more people will play tank if they can so something, I might actually queue for random dungeons on tank if I knew it wasn’t gonna take 45 minutes

That doesn’t mean it should be made even worse. We can’t have it all, I think if it does become a trade-off where pure class can do more damage that’d be a good thing because it’s going to be hard to balance pure class against subclass for tanking when the goal is to stack debuffs/buffs.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I’d argue you don’t even need heavy armor, I can fake tank on my light armor wearing DPS (albeit, I have frost staves and major resolve) fine if there’s a real healer (aka I need to slot more heals LOL).

You can DPS as a tank, it just depends on the content and your skill level. Medium armor tanking HMs with one bar daggers? That’s a thing but at that point you’re probably full burning the boss and sweating your global cooldowns. You can roll heavies up until maybe Coral Aerie so you could drop some defense, at the cost of added risk. I have beam and jabs on my plar tank to keep me entertained but I don’t do a whole lot of damage and usually that’s fine…
That is to say, though, maybe rethink the build to add more active skills onto it. Like magma fist or vamp drain. Keeps you busy and makes the DPS do more damage.

Necrotech_Master · March 28

Soarora wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

More damage, more power creep…

That said, looking at the pure class passives thus far, I suspect that it might be possible to drop some defense to get more weapon/spell damage and do a bit more damage. Or just proccing the damage pure class passives. Like the trade-off is you either subclass and get more debuffs or pure class and do some damage. We’ll find out later on though, probably not until it hits live. I might mess with it but I don’t have confidence that I’ll try doing any dungeon HMs on the PTS.

We are away to get the most power creep we have ever had, and I don’t want to sacrifice utility for damage, I just want a battle spirit type buff on tanks to give them more passive damage, maybe more people will play tank if they can so something, I might actually queue for random dungeons on tank if I knew it wasn’t gonna take 45 minutes

That doesn’t mean it should be made even worse. We can’t have it all, I think if it does become a trade-off where pure class can do more damage that’d be a good thing because it’s going to be hard to balance pure class against subclass for tanking when the goal is to stack debuffs/buffs.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I’d argue you don’t even need heavy armor, I can fake tank on my light armor wearing DPS (albeit, I have frost staves and major resolve) fine if there’s a real healer (aka I need to slot more heals LOL).

You can DPS as a tank, it just depends on the content and your skill level. Medium armor tanking HMs with one bar daggers? That’s a thing but at that point you’re probably full burning the boss and sweating your global cooldowns. You can roll heavies up until maybe Coral Aerie so you could drop some defense, at the cost of added risk. I have beam and jabs on my plar tank to keep me entertained but I don’t do a whole lot of damage and usually that’s fine…
That is to say, though, maybe rethink the build to add more active skills onto it. Like magma fist or vamp drain. Keeps you busy and makes the DPS do more damage.

yeah i would agree for normals basically anything goes as long as the person in tank slot knows how to taunt and hold aggro lol

definitely a different case for the vet HMs (and even more different case for newer dlc HMs), though trying to do dlc dungeons on vet without a full tank is really risky and the person holding aggro really needs to know what they are doing

Oblivion_Protocol · March 29

ImPoStier wrote: »

Yeah that’s what they do in every mmo, but they only do 0 damage in eso, why do they need to be doing 0 damage? I get it for PvP balance but my idea doesn’t affect PvP

I don’t think you understand how ZOS operates. There is no separate balance between PVP and PVE. Whatever gets buffed in PVE will come to PVP, which is how we get stuff like trial sets, such as Null Arca and Relequin (intended for PVE), becoming meta for PVP builds.

Oh, but don’t worry. Every once in a blue moon, if something overperforms too much in PVP, it gets nerfed across the board (RIP Plaguebreak and Tarnished Nightmare).

M0ntie · March 29

There is nothing stopping you running a tank that does damage. You just need to spec a build that can fulfil your role in the team. In easier group content, just run a dps build, with a shield skill and a taunt (and maybe a heal) and you can fulfil a tank role if you know what you're doing.
High health does not make a good tank
If you want to have a build that can both take maximum damage, and deal maximum damage, that would be broken.

ImPoStier · March 29

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

Yeah that’s what they do in every mmo, but they only do 0 damage in eso, why do they need to be doing 0 damage? I get it for PvP balance but my idea doesn’t affect PvP

I don’t think you understand how ZOS operates. There is no separate balance between PVP and PVE. Whatever gets buffed in PVE will come to PVP, which is how we get stuff like trial sets, such as Null Arca and Relequin (intended for PVE), becoming meta for PVP builds.

Oh, but don’t worry. Every once in a blue moon, if something overperforms too much in PVP, it gets nerfed across the board (RIP Plaguebreak and Tarnished Nightmare).

That’s not true there is separate balance not as much as there should be tho, leap does 10% damage to players 20% to monsters, onslaught does 100% crit chance in pve and not pvp, whip buffs does 14% and 15% in pve half in pvp, and there’s battle spirt that balances pvp on a wider scale, like there’s even a buff when you queue for dungeons, so they do do these types of buffs, my idea is not trying to make using more damage skills mandatory on tank, just wall and taunt make them do more damage on tank, a big guy in heavy armour with a sword and shield would take hours to kill a boss how is that fun or realistic? Maybe give them a blowup clown weapon instead it would make the damage they output more believable and realistic

M0ntie · March 29

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

ImPoStier · March 29

M0ntie wrote: »

There is nothing stopping you running a tank that does damage. You just need to spec a build that can fulfil your role in the team. In easier group content, just run a dps build, with a shield skill and a taunt (and maybe a heal) and you can fulfil a tank role if you know what you're doing.
High health does not make a good tank
If you want to have a build that can both take maximum damage, and deal maximum damage, that would be broken.

I’m just asking for 25% that would still be way lower than every other mmo

ImPoStier · March 29

M0ntie wrote: »

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

I’m score pushing vlc rn on off tank I go dd on the mini boss

ImPoStier · March 29

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I do trifectas I don’t do normal dungeons on tanks, in the hardest content you need all the mitigation and sustain you can get, and you need all the bar space, I’ve tanked on other MMOs and it feels better when the tank doesn’t hit like a noodle

Avran_Sylt · March 29

Not that it's a fix for the abilities available, but slot a Master's 2H for Brawling trash packs once you've gained aggro.

ImPoStier · March 29

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Not that it's a fix for the abilities available, but slot a Master's 2H for Brawling trash packs once you've gained aggro.

You need to perma block in trash you won’t be able to sustain blocking on 2h and spamming cleave, you get stunned by minis, and minis 1 shot with heavy attacks, and there’s some minis that 1 shot with lights, and you use what the raid lead tells you to use you can’t just use a masters 2h, what are you talking about?

ESO_Nightingale · March 29

Tanks are weird in ESO. Due to how open build creation is, people have created a meta of stacking supportive utility on non dps roles. Because the agro system for tanks is designed around taunt and not threat it creates a situation where you dont need damage in order to do your job.

Soarora · March 29

ImPoStier wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

I’m score pushing vlc rn on off tank I go dd on the mini boss

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I do trifectas I don’t do normal dungeons on tanks, in the hardest content you need all the mitigation and sustain you can get, and you need all the bar space, I’ve tanked on other MMOs and it feels better when the tank doesn’t hit like a noodle

Wait, so if you’re already doing scorepush then why do you feel like you need more damage? Everything should be burning pretty fast. Have you tried dungeon sweat strats? If not, that might be what you’d find fun? I mean, pre-subclassing there was a video going around of SCP tri with essentially 3.5 dps. Post-subclassing I’d imagine true meta is full tank though (too many debuffs to apply to spec into damage) but with daggers (knife). Not that you’d really have time to do damage with how fast dungeon bosses get burnt to a crisp with sweat strats.

ImPoStier · March 29

Soarora wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

I’m score pushing vlc rn on off tank I go dd on the mini boss

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I do trifectas I don’t do normal dungeons on tanks, in the hardest content you need all the mitigation and sustain you can get, and you need all the bar space, I’ve tanked on other MMOs and it feels better when the tank doesn’t hit like a noodle

Wait, so if you’re already doing scorepush then why do you feel like you need more damage? Everything should be burning pretty fast. Have you tried dungeon sweat strats? If not, that might be what you’d find fun? I mean, pre-subclassing there was a video going around of SCP tri with essentially 3.5 dps. Post-subclassing I’d imagine true meta is full tank though (too many debuffs to apply to spec into damage) but with daggers (knife). Not that you’d really have time to do damage with how fast dungeon bosses get burnt to a crisp with sweat strats.

Its not that I feel like I need the damage it’s more that I’ve tanked on other MMOs where I could do a bit of damage and it feels better when you aren’t doing 0, if I could do 50k there’s been times where it’s a wipe and the boss is on a million health imagine if the tank could clutch up and finish the boss I think that would be cool, them days are passed me but when I was going through all the hard modes there was a lot of them situations, they are type of moments that will get people addicted to tanking, but it’s not possible with 5k dps, I just want to see my number higher because it feels better

Soarora · March 29

ImPoStier wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

I’m score pushing vlc rn on off tank I go dd on the mini boss

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I do trifectas I don’t do normal dungeons on tanks, in the hardest content you need all the mitigation and sustain you can get, and you need all the bar space, I’ve tanked on other MMOs and it feels better when the tank doesn’t hit like a noodle

Wait, so if you’re already doing scorepush then why do you feel like you need more damage? Everything should be burning pretty fast. Have you tried dungeon sweat strats? If not, that might be what you’d find fun? I mean, pre-subclassing there was a video going around of SCP tri with essentially 3.5 dps. Post-subclassing I’d imagine true meta is full tank though (too many debuffs to apply to spec into damage) but with daggers (knife). Not that you’d really have time to do damage with how fast dungeon bosses get burnt to a crisp with sweat strats.

Its not that I feel like I need the damage it’s more that I’ve tanked on other MMOs where I could do a bit of damage and it feels better when you aren’t doing 0, if I could do 50k there’s been times where it’s a wipe and the boss is on a million health imagine if the tank could clutch up and finish the boss I think that would be cool, them days are passed me but when I was going through all the hard modes there was a lot of them situations, they are type of moments that will get people addicted to tanking, but it’s not possible with 5k dps, I just want to see my number higher because it feels better

It is a complaint I've seen before that tanks don't do enough damage to be interesting but really, ESO doesn't need to be like other MMOs. I have clutched situations like that before. Usually using my atronach on sorc tank but I've done it with plar beam too. Albeit, it wasn't a million health. At that point, I'd be clutch ressing haha.

Jestir · March 30

So technically while still not anywhere near a real DPS damage wise in higher level trials a lot of the time one of the tanks and healers partial or fully parse during some fights

As you improve as a player and play with others of a higher skill level you can parse as a support here and there

Palumtra · March 30

So uhm....what's the complaint here?

For non Veteran content you barely need actual tanks because enemies will melt, so you can run "off tank" just to taunt so your DPS players can smash their heads against the keyboard in peace (no offense).

For veteran/HM content you want a well organized/constructed party where your buffs/debuffs/actual tanking matters way more than the damage you do.

ImPoStier · March 30

Palumtra wrote: »

So uhm....what's the complaint here?

For non Veteran content you barely need actual tanks because enemies will melt, so you can run "off tank" just to taunt so your DPS players can smash their heads against the keyboard in peace (no offense).

For veteran/HM content you want a well organized/constructed party where your buffs/debuffs/actual tanking matters way more than the damage you do.

I know how the game works, everything needs rebalanced anyway, they should go back and give everything more health and balance it with tanks also doing a bit of damage in mind it’s pretty simple, I don’t want the game to be easier, I just like the feeling of being able to do a bit of damage of tank

ImPoStier · March 30

Jestir wrote: »

So technically while still not anywhere near a real DPS damage wise in higher level trials a lot of the time one of the tanks and healers partial or fully parse during some fights

As you improve as a player and play with others of a higher skill level you can parse as a support here and there

I know this but it’s only because these certain fights are too easy, they could easily throw in a mechanic to make solo tanking impossible

GloatingSwine · March 30

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for general overland, its already possible to get a tanky character that does 16k dps (almost 50% of an avg expected dps toons dps)

this is on a non optimized build or anything, all i did was throw herald of the tome on and use the arc beams as primary source of dmg lol

for optimized end game content though this just wouldnt work because tanks absolutely need 100% of their build dedicated to staying alive

I’m just talking about buffing their damage skills they already use, they do about 5k dps in raids on meta builds

How does the game know who to buff for this?

Because if it's just on role, then everyone sets their group role to tank to get the buff, and that would become the objectively correct thing to do. (Remember that the game does not in fact enforce group compositions except via the role queue for dungeon finder, and you can just change once you've loaded in)

Also your premise just doesn't hold up.

People who don't play tanks aren't avoiding them because they want to post a high damage number, they're avoiding them because the tank is the highest pressure role in most encounters where if you make a mistake, which can happen remarkably quickly, it's very likely that you cause a wipe and it's very hard in most situations for a single player to be the cause of a wipe (and almost never that a single DPS can cause it).

Some people just aren't going to step into that environment for any amount of damage buffs, because they don't want to be the one who gets blamed and told they suck when the team wipes.

ImPoStier · March 30

Soarora wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

I'd also add that if you look at the top scores on manyTrials they often have only 1 character showing as a tank role and 1 as a healer - so effectively the second "tank" is doing high dps.
These are the top 3 for vKAhm:

I’m score pushing vlc rn on off tank I go dd on the mini boss

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

why would you play a full tank in a random queue when you dont know who your teaming with? especially if your going in on a normal

if your just doing random normals, you definitely dont need a full tank for that, just heavy armor and thats about it

in stuff like vets and HMs, you absolutely should not be focused on DPSing because then your going to miss a block and die and potentially cause a wipe

so i still dont see why tanks need a dmg buff when you can easily build a tank for random normals that does 25k dps (and yes i tested that on my main who is a tank with just the herald of tome line for added dps and on the king boar jester quest i was doing 22-25k dps)

I do trifectas I don’t do normal dungeons on tanks, in the hardest content you need all the mitigation and sustain you can get, and you need all the bar space, I’ve tanked on other MMOs and it feels better when the tank doesn’t hit like a noodle

Wait, so if you’re already doing scorepush then why do you feel like you need more damage? Everything should be burning pretty fast. Have you tried dungeon sweat strats? If not, that might be what you’d find fun? I mean, pre-subclassing there was a video going around of SCP tri with essentially 3.5 dps. Post-subclassing I’d imagine true meta is full tank though (too many debuffs to apply to spec into damage) but with daggers (knife). Not that you’d really have time to do damage with how fast dungeon bosses get burnt to a crisp with sweat strats.

Its not that I feel like I need the damage it’s more that I’ve tanked on other MMOs where I could do a bit of damage and it feels better when you aren’t doing 0, if I could do 50k there’s been times where it’s a wipe and the boss is on a million health imagine if the tank could clutch up and finish the boss I think that would be cool, them days are passed me but when I was going through all the hard modes there was a lot of them situations, they are type of moments that will get people addicted to tanking, but it’s not possible with 5k dps, I just want to see my number higher because it feels better

It is a complaint I've seen before that tanks don't do enough damage to be interesting but really, ESO doesn't need to be like other MMOs. I have clutched situations like that before. Usually using my atronach on sorc tank but I've done it with plar beam too. Albeit, it wasn't a million health. At that point, I'd be clutch ressing haha.

Yeah it doesn’t need it be like other MMOs, but is there a benefit for them doing no damage? Does it make the game better? Is there a good amount of tanks? If I queued as tank and I queued as a dps is my queues going to be the same? You can count on 1 hand the tanks that could join any random trifecta group and help them get the trifecta, pretty much every dd with all trifectas could do this but almost no tanks can why is this? I know a lot of good players that would be good tanks but why would they want to just sit there on the hardest most stressful role doing the same amount of damage as the healers? Seeing big healing numbers if you got rid of that I bet less people would play healers, and if they made tanks do more damage than a dps you would be struggling to find dds everyone would want to play tank, so I believe there’s a ratio here you can do to get more people playing tank by increasing their damage

ImPoStier · March 30

GloatingSwine wrote: »

ImPoStier wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

for general overland, its already possible to get a tanky character that does 16k dps (almost 50% of an avg expected dps toons dps)

this is on a non optimized build or anything, all i did was throw herald of the tome on and use the arc beams as primary source of dmg lol

for optimized end game content though this just wouldnt work because tanks absolutely need 100% of their build dedicated to staying alive

I’m just talking about buffing their damage skills they already use, they do about 5k dps in raids on meta builds

How does the game know who to buff for this?

Because if it's just on role, then everyone sets their group role to tank to get the buff, and that would become the objectively correct thing to do. (Remember that the game does not in fact enforce group compositions except via the role queue for dungeon finder, and you can just change once you've loaded in)

Also your premise just doesn't hold up.

People who don't play tanks aren't avoiding them because they want to post a high damage number, they're avoiding them because the tank is the highest pressure role in most encounters where if you make a mistake, which can happen remarkably quickly, it's very likely that you cause a wipe and it's very hard in most situations for a single player to be the cause of a wipe (and almost never that a single DPS can cause it).

Some people just aren't going to step into that environment for any amount of damage buffs, because they don't want to be the one who gets blamed and told they suck when the team wipes.

Look at my original post I just updated my idea

Make it the highest health player with a taunt on their bar with tank role who and make it nerf other damage abilities there's ways to make it so it can’t be cheesed, I think this would be possible in open world if they nerfed all other damage abilities on tank, and made the requirement a certain amount of health armour ice staff or S&S and a taunt on your bar this could just be a pve thing, in open world they would probably be doing 20k dps not a big deal to have people going around as tanks doing 20k dps

UNSeki · March 30

I agree that it's more satisfying to play tanks if you can feel that you're contributing to the damage, specially with mobs (I think it's fine to just be a tank when the boss fight arrives)—that's usually how I've built my own 4-man Dungeon tanks so far, as off-tanks that can help melting mobs but then switch to full defensive/utility mode during boss fights. However, your suggestion is already going to the cheesy side for me. 200k burst damage out of nowhere and regardless of gear and setup is not something that can be justified for any class imo (and obviously, that should never be available in PVP whatsoever).

Speaking of PVP, I do think dabbling a bit in Battlegrounds (and probably Cyrodiil, but I haven't tried that much yet) can help you theorize some builds that are tanky but allow you to provide some decent damage on top of debuffs. Consider sets like Armor Master, which can be paired with 5 pieces of Light Armor for high penetration and critical %, all of which help burning mobs. Personally, I would like for them to find some way to give tanks more access to passives that increase damage over time (maybe through Champion Points) to assist this type of gameplay.

As for Trials and high end content, I doubt you can really do much about it. The tank just needs to really committ to survival, taunting and debuffing, and that will often help the overall damage more than any small bursts you could contribute. Honestly, tanking for high end content is not that boring for the tank. In fact, the tank is often the one doing the most tasks and controlling the pace of the game (alongside the healer); if anything, it's too high pressure of a scenario, which can be discouraging.