Overland Content Feedback Thread

disky · March 27

Monsters should be removed. The other day I saw a player fighting monsters but he was obviously a bot. I think it's wrong that bots can take away the monsters I wanted to fight, and if nobody has the ability to fight monsters, because they are no longer in the game, then this problem will be solved. I await the community's praise in this matter.

BagOfBadgers · March 27

disky wrote: »

Monsters should be removed. The other day I saw a player fighting monsters but he was obviously a bot. I think it's wrong that bots can take away the monsters I wanted to fight, and if nobody has the ability to fight monsters, because they are no longer in the game, then this problem will be solved. I await the community's praise in this matter.

This 100%........

Are you that bot that we see from time to time?

ESO_player123 · March 27

shadoza wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Auto loot should be removed. Ran across a character that was obviously unmanned. They moved in a set pattern, jumping routinely (done to avoid obstacles) and didn't stop to fight or collect loot. They fought using a spammed AOE attack. If auto loot was not a thing, this kind of behavior in public dungeons would not be advantageous.

Maybe remove the public sales as well. Allow private one-on-one sales but not have guild stores. If there were no guild stores, then farming in the above fashion would not be as advantageous. Therefore, these non-players would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of actual players.

In there is no "public sales" two thing will happen:
1. Players who are not in a guild (like me) would farm even more for their personal use. Because no one wants to spend time spamming in the zone chat what they want to buy.
2. Players that want to trade will STILL be farming. But in addition there will be bot sellers spamming the zone chat with their wares.

I think what you are looking for at this point is a single player game.

Deserrick · March 27

shadoza wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Auto loot should be removed. Ran across a character that was obviously unmanned. They moved in a set pattern, jumping routinely (done to avoid obstacles) and didn't stop to fight or collect loot. They fought using a spammed AOE attack. If auto loot was not a thing, this kind of behavior in public dungeons would not be advantageous.

Maybe remove the public sales as well. Allow private one-on-one sales but not have guild stores. If there were no guild stores, then farming in the above fashion would not be as advantageous. Therefore, these non-players would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of actual players.

If the game had better instancing, those actions would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of players. I think expanding and improving the instancing would be more workable than removing auto loot and public sales.

shadoza · March 27

Deserrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Auto loot should be removed. Ran across a character that was obviously unmanned. They moved in a set pattern, jumping routinely (done to avoid obstacles) and didn't stop to fight or collect loot. They fought using a spammed AOE attack. If auto loot was not a thing, this kind of behavior in public dungeons would not be advantageous.

Maybe remove the public sales as well. Allow private one-on-one sales but not have guild stores. If there were no guild stores, then farming in the above fashion would not be as advantageous. Therefore, these non-players would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of actual players.

If the game had better instancing, those actions would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of players. I think expanding and improving the instancing would be more workable than removing auto loot and public sales.

I agree.

twisttop138 · March 27

disky wrote: »

Monsters should be removed. The other day I saw a player fighting monsters but he was obviously a bot. I think it's wrong that bots can take away the monsters I wanted to fight, and if nobody has the ability to fight monsters, because they are no longer in the game, then this problem will be solved. I await the community's praise in this matter.

Won't somebody think of the children!?!?
I saw someone fighting a monster the other day and thought, he could really get hurt. Someone should stop that.

twisttop138 · March 27

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Auto loot should be removed. Ran across a character that was obviously unmanned. They moved in a set pattern, jumping routinely (done to avoid obstacles) and didn't stop to fight or collect loot. They fought using a spammed AOE attack. If auto loot was not a thing, this kind of behavior in public dungeons would not be advantageous.

Maybe remove the public sales as well. Allow private one-on-one sales but not have guild stores. If there were no guild stores, then farming in the above fashion would not be as advantageous. Therefore, these non-players would not be disrupting the progress and enjoyment of actual players.

In there is no "public sales" two thing will happen:
1. Players who are not in a guild (like me) would farm even more for their personal use. Because no one wants to spend time spamming in the zone chat what they want to buy.
2. Players that want to trade will STILL be farming. But in addition there will be bot sellers spamming the zone chat with their wares.

I think what you are looking for at this point is a single player game.

I don't know why you guys bother anymore. It's become obvious trolling and what I think the kids call rage baiting.

Arunei · March 27

What do either of those points even have to do with Overland content anyway? They have to be trolling considering those matters are completely off topic.

spartaxoxo · March 27

Arunei wrote: »

What do either of those points even have to do with Overland content anyway? They have to be trolling considering those matters are completely off topic.

I don't agree with them even a little bit, but I personally think the user has made it clear at this point that they think the devs should take actions to reduce/eliminate farming in overland content. I suspect those suggestions are about ways to achieve that. I personally think farming mobs is a normal part of the MMO experience. And obviously with current drop rates of rare items from overland content, the devs have stuff that takes the opposite approach. So, like I said, I don't agree at all. I just think from past interactions that's probably why they made those suggestions.

Technically, this thread is for all overland suggestions and not just difficulty. That said, I don't see the devs eliminating farming in overland anytime soon. Nor do I think they should. I personally feel like it's a standard part of the MMO experience and a MMO with nothing to farm in the overland would be like a fps with no sniper rifles.

Deserrick · March 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

What do either of those points even have to do with Overland content anyway? They have to be trolling considering those matters are completely off topic.

I don't agree with them even a little bit, but I personally think the user has made it clear at this point that they think the devs should take actions to reduce/eliminate farming in overland content. I suspect those suggestions are about ways to achieve that. I personally think farming mobs is a normal part of the MMO experience. And obviously with current drop rates of rare items from overland content, the devs have stuff that takes the opposite approach. So, like I said, I don't agree at all. I just think from past interactions that's probably why they made those suggestions.

Technically, this thread is for all overland suggestions and not just difficulty. That said, I don't see the devs eliminating farming in overland anytime soon. Nor do I think they should. I personally feel like it's a standard part of the MMO experience and a MMO with nothing to farm in the overland would be like a fps with no sniper rifles.

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

"a MMO with nothing to farm in the overland would be like a fps with no sniper rifles." is a great illustration of how the game experience is for them and other newer or otherwise non-optimized players; a not insignificant chunk of the game is effectively removed from them. If the lack of sniper rifles in the hypothetical FPS is because some players keep grabbing them as soon as they spawn, that can be solved by instancing the sniper rifles. Likewise, the lack of materials and enemies caused by other players grabbing/killing them as they spawn in can be solved by instancing the resources and enemies.

Arunei · March 27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

What do either of those points even have to do with Overland content anyway? They have to be trolling considering those matters are completely off topic.

I don't agree with them even a little bit, but I personally think the user has made it clear at this point that they think the devs should take actions to reduce/eliminate farming in overland content. I suspect those suggestions are about ways to achieve that. I personally think farming mobs is a normal part of the MMO experience. And obviously with current drop rates of rare items from overland content, the devs have stuff that takes the opposite approach. So, like I said, I don't agree at all. I just think from past interactions that's probably why they made those suggestions.

Technically, this thread is for all overland suggestions and not just difficulty. That said, I don't see the devs eliminating farming in overland anytime soon. Nor do I think they should. I personally feel like it's a standard part of the MMO experience and a MMO with nothing to farm in the overland would be like a fps with no sniper rifles.

But they aren't strictly Overland, one is a setting and the other is a game mechanic that lets people sell anything not Bound.

Auto Loot applies to anywhere you can loot something. Overland, Dungeons, Cyro, IC. And you pointed out that that bots ALREADY have to interact with mob bodies to loot them to begin with, the people using them won't care if they need to spend a couple of seconds longer to loot individual mobs. But it doesn't apply just to looting mobs, it applies to containers too, which I don't think bots can interact with. It doesn't make sense to ask for it to be removed in general, especially when it isn't something related only to Overland.

And removing public trading? When people can sell, again, literally anything that isn't Bound? Regardless of whether it's from Overland, crafting, Dungeons, etc? That would cause ONLY the people NOT using bots to stop farming to sell things like mats, because the botters aren't spending their time doing the farming. They'll let their bots do their thing and then just spam WTS in Zone chat. I mean heck, what proof is there that botters are even strictly using Guild Traders to sell what they get and aren't just spamming Zone chat to begin with?

But people who aren't farming raw mats to sell will also just keep farming, and the point about farmers blocking other peoples' progress makes no sense. Even botters aren't so prevalent that they would lock people out of progression. And if there's an event or something and a specific Boss or whatever in a Delve or Public Dungeon or something is getting one-tapped by big groups, and someone needs that Boss to clear the area but genuinely cannot get a single hit in even after several respawns? There are so many other things to do and other places to go that they could always do that another time. But that's a very specific example and not anything getting rid of public trading would fix.

There's no way someone would genuinely think these things are Overland issues when they touch so many other parts of the game.

spartaxoxo · March 27

Arunei wrote: »

There's no way someone would genuinely think these things are Overland issues when they touch so many other parts of the game.

I think it's a bad idea, some of which for the reasons you touched on. I was just explaining my interactions with the user because of the confusion. I'm used to seeing posts here about issues people run into while doing overland. I'm not defending the idea as I don't agree with it even a little.

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

Deserrick · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Arunei · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

There's no way someone would genuinely think these things are Overland issues when they touch so many other parts of the game.

I think it's a bad idea, some of which for the reasons you touched on. I was just explaining my interactions with the user because of the confusion. I'm used to seeing posts here about issues people run into while doing overland. I'm not defending the idea as I don't agree with it even a little.

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

Oh I know you weren't agreeing or defending the points, I was mainly saying how I don't think anyone could genuinely see these as Overland issues when they aren't, thus off-topic. One is just a game setting that works regardless of the content and the other is a game system that lets people trade their time (or money in terms of buying CS things) for gold.

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

This is more often than not a problem during events, which isn't an Overland issue as much as it is an issue with ZOS needing to make enemies or nodes that are needed respawn immediately. In terms of normal quests, if you're finding you can't get hits in because someone is farming, you can always come back and do the quest later. Not being able to complete a quest right away doesn't block progressing, it just means you need to wait a bit.

And in cases where a person wants to farm but others are farming the same area? It's an MMO no one owns any particular area, no one has any more right to farm than anyone else does. I farm in Seekers Archive for a number of reasons, but if too many other people are also farming I'll do something called going somewhere else. There are tons of places to go for farming mats, rather than acting like one is entitled to an area they want to stay in.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

disky · March 29

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

I have never, not once, encountered a scenario in which this has been a truly insurmountable problem. The spawn rate for basically everything is high enough that if the thing you wanted to fight is occupado then you can simply move on and find something literally seconds later, practically every time. This is the nature of the genre, and ESO is one of *the* most forgiving MMOs I have ever played with respect to this issue. If it were another game I might be more compassionate but guys, it's just not that big of a deal here.

M0ntie · March 29

Can someone give me a tldr on this post?

Vonnegut2506 · March 29

M0ntie wrote: »

Can someone give me a tldr on this post?

People disagreeing about increasing overland difficulty becomes people arguing about how overland difficulty change will work which then becomes arguing about random off-topic complaints about other people playing the game with them.

ESO_player123 · March 29

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

Can someone give me a tldr on this post?

People disagreeing about increasing overland difficulty becomes people arguing about how overland difficulty change will work which then becomes arguing about random off-topic complaints about other people playing the game with them.

Awesome. Two lines summarize 329 pages.

Deserrick · March 29

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

Yes, that is how you can tag a couple near you before they are killed. With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

spartaxoxo · March 29

M0ntie wrote: »

Can someone give me a tldr on this post?

Once upon a time, there was a bunch of threads clogging the forums where people asked for optional overland difficulty increases while others argued they should not exist. The devs decided to clean up the forums and give people a place to discuss the issue that was a sticky so it could be easily ignored by those that didn't want to participate. It didn't stop some people who were bummed these threads existed from participating, but it did mostly end the "these discussions shouldn't exist and the topic is spam," debates.

The primary debate soon became overland difficulty sliders vs instances.

This broke down into 4 main groups

Those who wanted optional difficulty in the form of a slider.

Those who wanted optional difficulty in the form of separate instances.

Those who wanted to force everyone into a harder difficulty because they think it's not hard enough and it's preventing people from getting good.

Those who wanted the devs to not do anything at all because they felt it would be unfair for casual players if vets "took over," overland since "they already have the rest of the game."

The latter two groups were rarer. There were other suggestions here and there e.g. new adventure zones and wandering world bosses.

And for years that's how things stayed with posts from these camps triggering random debates and then the thread dying down until the next burst of activity.

But then the devs decided to go with the slider idea. Since then the main debate shifted to whether or not people should be allowed to celebrate the idea they wanted getting implemented, whether or not vets should be allowed to farm in overland, and whether or not this slider is really the best way to handle the difficulty options.

There have also been random complaints outside of difficulty in this thread, especially within the last several months. But the predominant topic has been difficulty.

Arunei · March 29

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

Yes, that is how you can tag a couple near you before they are killed. With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

This isn't a great argument in terms of Delves, because there are WAY better places to farm stuff than Delves most of the time. Again the only real time you're going to have people farming like this is during Events like Witches Fest or New Life. And if someone is fsr farming a Delve and it's keeping someone from completing a quest outside of an event, you could literally go do other quests or something for an hour. For quests during Events ZOS really does need to implement an auto respawn for mobs and nodes.

Also people need to remember that people farm mobs for a NUMBER of reasons that have nothing to do with the loot. Leveling, getting Leads, or trying to get the achieves to do with killing X number of Y mob or trying to get their Collectibles are all reasons someone might be in a Delve killing mobs. You never know what someone is actually doing. Everyone is as entitled to be any given place in the game doing what they want as anyone else, so long as they aren't breaking any rules or trolling/harassing someone. Wanting to take X or Y because you don't want what you're doing interrupted isn't going to happen, especially because people might not even be doing either of those and might be doing Z instead.

disky · March 29

Arunei wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

Yes, that is how you can tag a couple near you before they are killed. With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

This isn't a great argument in terms of Delves, because there are WAY better places to farm stuff than Delves most of the time. Again the only real time you're going to have people farming like this is during Events like Witches Fest or New Life. And if someone is fsr farming a Delve and it's keeping someone from completing a quest outside of an event, you could literally go do other quests or something for an hour. For quests during Events ZOS really does need to implement an auto respawn for mobs and nodes.

Also people need to remember that people farm mobs for a NUMBER of reasons that have nothing to do with the loot. Leveling, getting Leads, or trying to get the achieves to do with killing X number of Y mob or trying to get their Collectibles are all reasons someone might be in a Delve killing mobs. You never know what someone is actually doing. Everyone is as entitled to be any given place in the game doing what they want as anyone else, so long as they aren't breaking any rules or trolling/harassing someone. Wanting to take X or Y because you don't want what you're doing interrupted isn't going to happen, especially because people might not even be doing either of those and might be doing Z instead.

Agreed, but also,

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

This is such a non-issue and I don't understand why people are making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. Honestly, given this information regarding builds it seems to me that some people just need to use a little more common sense when in overland, and bring appropriate skills, rather than coming to the forums to complain that their build isn't serving them.

Vonnegut2506 · March 29

disky wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

Yes, that is how you can tag a couple near you before they are killed. With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

This isn't a great argument in terms of Delves, because there are WAY better places to farm stuff than Delves most of the time. Again the only real time you're going to have people farming like this is during Events like Witches Fest or New Life. And if someone is fsr farming a Delve and it's keeping someone from completing a quest outside of an event, you could literally go do other quests or something for an hour. For quests during Events ZOS really does need to implement an auto respawn for mobs and nodes.

Also people need to remember that people farm mobs for a NUMBER of reasons that have nothing to do with the loot. Leveling, getting Leads, or trying to get the achieves to do with killing X number of Y mob or trying to get their Collectibles are all reasons someone might be in a Delve killing mobs. You never know what someone is actually doing. Everyone is as entitled to be any given place in the game doing what they want as anyone else, so long as they aren't breaking any rules or trolling/harassing someone. Wanting to take X or Y because you don't want what you're doing interrupted isn't going to happen, especially because people might not even be doing either of those and might be doing Z instead.

Agreed, but also,

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

This is such a non-issue and I don't understand why people are making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. Honestly, given this information regarding builds it seems to me that some people just need to use a little more common sense when in overland, and bring appropriate skills, rather than coming to the forums to complain that their build isn't serving them.

Not to mention the very first scribing skill you learn is a ranged attack that you can put effects on to replace some other skill on your bar.

Deserrick · March 29

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

ESO_player123 · March 29

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

Since we are talking about the need to tag, I have a question. What is a new/unoptimized/casual player doing in a delve in this scenario?

Are they on a quest? If so, they do not need to tag everything. Most quests in delves/public dungeons (to my knowledge) require only retrieving items/killing a boss/bosses. So, outside of events or situations when people are farming a boss for a lead when the delve is very new the bosses are deserted. Sure, you might need to wait for a boss to respawn. But I do not think it's a big deal to complete a quest.

Are they trying to actively farm themselves (for a lead for example)? In this case they should put more thought/research into a build meant for farming. That is a given for any player wanting to farm efficiently for any prolonged period of time in any MMO.

I think there is only one serious offender among public dungeons/delves that is notorious for being farmed. That is the Bad Man's Hallow where the mobs/bosses drop two very desired leads with a very bad drop rate. Other than that outside of events the delves/public dungeons seem to be pretty dead.

Deserrick · March 29

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

Since we are talking about the need to tag, I have a question. What is a new/unoptimized/casual player doing in a delve in this scenario?

Are they on a quest? If so, they do not need to tag everything. Most quests in delves/public dungeons (to my knowledge) require only retrieving items/killing a boss/bosses. So, outside of events or situations when people are farming a boss for a lead when the delve is very new the bosses are deserted. Sure, you might need to wait for a boss to respawn.

That is true for most. Two that come to mind are the repeatable daily quests "Culinary Justice in Greenshade" and "Veiled Darkness in Auridon", which require killing mobs and bosses. That requires waiting on a respawn for every 2-3 mobs, and then waiting on a respawn for the boss. With each respawn timer being 5 minutes, that could mean 30 minutes of waiting.

ESO_player123 · March 29

Deserrick wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

Since we are talking about the need to tag, I have a question. What is a new/unoptimized/casual player doing in a delve in this scenario?

Are they on a quest? If so, they do not need to tag everything. Most quests in delves/public dungeons (to my knowledge) require only retrieving items/killing a boss/bosses. So, outside of events or situations when people are farming a boss for a lead when the delve is very new the bosses are deserted. Sure, you might need to wait for a boss to respawn.

That is true for most. Two that come to mind are the repeatable daily quests "Culinary Justice in Greenshade" and "Veiled Darkness in Auridon", which require killing mobs and bosses. That requires waiting on a respawn for every 2-3 mobs, and then waiting on a respawn for the boss. With each respawn timer being 5 minutes, that could mean 30 minutes of waiting.

30 mins? I'm sorry, but that is math that is not backed by practice. I've done these on multiple new characters (both melee and ranged) multiple times while leveling the Undaunted skill line/getting scripts (as I'm sure most of the players did at some point). And also rather recently on PC EU where I created my first toon in the Fall. Yes, you need to wait for the boss most of the time in these delves. That is a given and not just for new players. But I've never had to wait for the regular mobs to respawn on any of my toons new or not even if there were multiple people in there.

Edit: Yes, YMMV, but I would like to see if anyone had to actually wait in one of those delves for 30 mins.

Vonnegut2506 · March 30

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

Since we are talking about the need to tag, I have a question. What is a new/unoptimized/casual player doing in a delve in this scenario?

Are they on a quest? If so, they do not need to tag everything. Most quests in delves/public dungeons (to my knowledge) require only retrieving items/killing a boss/bosses. So, outside of events or situations when people are farming a boss for a lead when the delve is very new the bosses are deserted. Sure, you might need to wait for a boss to respawn.

That is true for most. Two that come to mind are the repeatable daily quests "Culinary Justice in Greenshade" and "Veiled Darkness in Auridon", which require killing mobs and bosses. That requires waiting on a respawn for every 2-3 mobs, and then waiting on a respawn for the boss. With each respawn timer being 5 minutes, that could mean 30 minutes of waiting.

30 mins? I'm sorry, but that is math that is not backed by practice. I've done these on multiple new characters (both melee and ranged) multiple times while leveling the Undaunted skill line/getting scripts (as I'm sure most of the players did at some point). And also rather recently on PC EU where I created my first toon in the Fall. Yes, you need to wait for the boss most of the time in these delves. That is a given and not just for new players. But I've never had to wait for the regular mobs to respawn on any of my toons new or not even if there were multiple people in there.

Edit: Yes, YMMV, but I would like to see if anyone had to actually wait in one of those delves for 30 mins.

I do that quest frequently. Only the boss has a long respawn. The normal mobs in that delve respawn in two minutes or less, and you only need to kill 9 of them for the quest to get their heads as you always get at least one from the boss's two helpers. I have never had a problem finding mobs to kill on either server I play on. This is a non-issue that is being made out to be standard, everyday behavior.

disky · March 30

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

It's not farming itself that is the issue, but the fact that other players can strip the field bare of anything for them to farm.

They can't though? Mobs respawn fairly quickly and you can easily just tag them to share credit.

They can.

5 minutes isn't quick when you need to tag multiple types of mobs in a delve to complete a quest, while at least one other player is moving through the mobs at triple your speed while instantly killing all mobs in a large radius around them. You might be able to barely tag a couple near you before the whirlwind kills them and moves on, leaving you without a chance to catch up to any other mobs that the whirlwind is going after, and so you have to stay where you are to wait for a respawn that happens just as the whirlwind is circling around to get the freshly respawned mobs.

Just use a ranged aoe and tag the mobs. Staff has wall of elements, assault has caltrops, bow has poison spray....so there are non-class specific options as well.

With a melee single-target attack, you might be able to barely tag one near you before it is killed.

So bring a ranged skill? With all of the freedom we now have in build customization, who in the world is exclusively using melee skills? You have two bars of five regular skills and two ults, surely at least one of those could (and absolutely should) be set aside for a ranged attack, or a gap closer that can help you move in and tag more quickly when you need to.

You’re leaving off a significant chunk of both what I said in that post as well as the previous quotes that it is a reply to.

To recap: I had said that a new/unoptimized/casual player might, when there is another player whirwinding through the area, might be able to barely tag a couple mobs near them before they are killed, and not be able to catch up to the whirlwind to tag any more than that. To which a response was to use a ranged aoe. To which I responded that a ranged aoe was already what I had calculated, and if I was talking about a melee single target attack, I would have instead said that player might be able to barely tag one mob near them instead of a couple.

First of all, new players have access to ranged skills very, very early on, and second, this scenario is such an edge case that it's not worth discussing. Most people that start playing MMOs will learn about how they work fairly quickly and will adapt, but I doubt this particular scenario is going to come up enough for it to be much of a problem for any of them.