The problem with a blanket approach like that imo is there are a lot of subclassing combinations that aren't the meta, and a few busted combinations that perform far above anything else.

So it would make the best combinations a bit worse, but absolutely kill any other combinations that are not currently ultra-high performing.

Or if taken too far, it would just make subclassing useless.

What they're actually *doing* though is the class refresh and the introduction of class mastery passives.

I doubt we'll see other rebalancing of subclassing until that's finished.

Yeah, I do fear the massive backward step for PvE content where the tanks and healers are always the same set of classes again for any organised content, and the build variety that has been enjoyed by these roles over the last year will be lost. Build variety for healers and tanks has been an issue for much longer than the beam meta for dps, and the dk rework does very little to assure me otherwise.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

The point of subclassing was to add strength to characters. If they become categorically weaker for doing it, that would kill the whole thing altogether.

The best way to balance subclassing from a gameplay standpoint would be to allow players to only take two skills and passives from each subclassed line. That way, people have options without losing power or getting literally everything they’d need to become nearly unkillable.

Nah, the best way to balance subclassing is to allow players to use ABILITIES from different skill lines, but not the passives. Its apparent that all the power from subclassing comes more from stacking various passives from different skill lines together, so the way you draw back that power is to allow you to use skills, but not passives.

The devs can then change all of the group buff sourcing from active abilities to activate from the passives, and then you will still have a reason to play various classes.

This is really how they should have done subclassing, but instead, the dev team that created it thought they could just allow players to swap skill lines and passives in and out without consequence. And because the CURRENT dev team is scared to touch subclassing as it is, IMO, the games going to be in a downward spiral, where each pure-class update is going to need to be more broken than the last to entice people away from subclassing and away from the latest broken pure-class.

I don't think we need more broken stuff in this game. We need to fix what is broken. You can't do that without taking a hard look at subclassing IMO.

Just put Subclassing back in the box it came from and undo hybridization while we’re at it.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Nah, the best way to balance subclassing is to allow players to use ABILITIES from different skill lines, but not the passives. Its apparent that all the power from subclassing comes more from stacking various passives from different skill lines together, so the way you draw back that power is to allow you to use skills, but not passives.

The devs can then change all of the group buff sourcing from active abilities to activate from the passives, and then you will still have a reason to play various classes.

This is really how they should have done subclassing, but instead, the dev team that created it thought they could just allow players to swap skill lines and passives in and out without consequence. And because the CURRENT dev team is scared to touch subclassing as it is, IMO, the games going to be in a downward spiral, where each pure-class update is going to need to be more broken than the last to entice people away from subclassing and away from the latest broken pure-class.

I don't think we need more broken stuff in this game. We need to fix what is broken. You can't do that without taking a hard look at subclassing IMO.

If that were how subclassing worked, it would mean players would give up eight passives just to take abilities from other lines and nothing else, leaving them woefully underpowered. That’s not balance, that’s just a nerf.

Not to mention that some skills are inherently weak and rely entirely on passive abilities to compete with other skills. For example, Bound Armaments can only compete with Relentless Focus in terms of cost by relying on Rebate. Without Rebate, Bound Armaments is a useless skill with higher cost but lower damage.

Furthermore, in the upcoming confirmed rework, we also have class mastery and class refresh. Until these are completed, it's impossible to determine whether a gap still exists between subclasses and pure classes. Based on the new-DK case, I believe that after class refresh, the gap between subclasses and pure classes should become very small. Combined with class mastery, pure classes might even have the potential to be stronger than subclasses. Therefore, we don't need to rush to nerf subclasses now.