Why is everything becoming more cartoony?

Syldras · March 22

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I fully agree with ESO's "play the way you want" mantra. What I don't agree with is the people who are coming out to the forums to complain "you aren't allowed to play the way you want because that goes against the way I want."

No player is to blame for just using what ZOS includes into the game. But it's possible to be critical about what is included into ESO in the first place, and to question if "selling everything enough people would buy" is the best design decision.

Not everything someone would buy needs to be included. Maybe there are lots of people, I don't know, who'd enjoy using a sports car in ESO, and would buy a Ferrari "mount"? One can still doubt if including a Ferrari into ESO would be a good decision. No matter if it might include some random pseudo-lore flavor text ("I love to drive my Ferrari through the Ashlands on Sundas!" - Master Gothren, Great House Telvanni).

From my point of view, it's important to preserve a balance between catering to player wishes (or introducing cosmetics that would sell well) and caring for the overall aesthetic and world building.

SilverBride · March 22

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I fully agree with ESO's "play the way you want" mantra. What I don't agree with is the people who are coming out to the forums to complain "you aren't allowed to play the way you want because that goes against the way I want."

As much as I hate the loud flashy effects I am not saying that players shouldn't use them if that is what they like. What I am saying is why do they even exist in this game in the first place? They don't belong in an Elder Scrolls world and break immersion for many. And now adding these effects to our skills where we have no choice whether or not to use them like we can with cosmetics, crossed a very bad line for me.

twisttop138 · March 22

BretonMage wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Even though things may have been more understated before, I think the need to reach the widest number of people and get them to open their wallets has won out. We can only decide for ourselves when and what is too much to continue. This is the thing about MMOs. Immersion kinda takes a back seat these days in the name of profit, and will only become more pronounced as all new content is free and people will need to be tempted into tomes.

I would understand if they didn't already have an established and successful IP as their foundation. This is what I can't wrap my head around: all these sparkling pink mounts are the antithesis of the Elder Scrolls aesthetic. They must surely be aware that they are eroding the Elder Scrolls image with all these improbably colourful collectibles; so must Bethesda. Why isn't anyone trying to protect its image? Couldn't all this have an impact on the single-player TES series?

Some folks like one thing, some another. Hopefully this new option makes it so you don't have to see them but we'll see.

I wish we could selectively ignore certain mounts and skill styles altogether. I like some of the brighter crown mounts, but some are just ridiculous.

Sure, I totally get what people are saying. I don't really disagree on everything. They haven't started far outside the crown store though. It is just what it is. The stuff is super popular and makes the game money. The monetazation guy said in an article that it's 15 million dollars a month. We know that MS expects a higher return than industry standard, and we want ESO to achieve it. Now that all content is free, this issue will become more pronounced as they strive to dial in what people will pay for in the tomes. I hope they cook on the rewards. I also hope it doesn't become a fallout 76 situation. They have amazing season rewards a lot of the time but very little in terms of content because it's all free and it seems most effort is put towards seasons and the cash shop.

SilverBride · March 22

twisttop138 wrote: »

The monetazation guy said in an article that it's 15 million dollars a month.

Is that just for the flashy cosmetics or for all revenue sources? When I Google I find many references that this is their total revenue per month, not specifically from flashy cosmetics.

Please link to this article.

BretonMage · March 22

$15 million in monthly revenue would include subscriptions, paid content and the crown store, I'd say.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I fully agree with ESO's "play the way you want" mantra. What I don't agree with is the people who are coming out to the forums to complain "you aren't allowed to play the way you want because that goes against the way I want."

People telling me that I should not be allowed to replay quests or change classes on my only character because I must make a new character to re-experience content - that's not allowing me to play how I want (and it's not even something that affects others).

A complaint about ESO's aesthetic identity changing is not quite the same thing.

twisttop138 · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

The monetazation guy said in an article that it's 15 million dollars a month.

Is that just for the flashy cosmetics or for all revenue sources? When I Google I find many references that this is their total revenue per month, not specifically from flashy cosmetics.

Please link to this article.

Well there's a bunch of articles, but many of them base on the LinkedIn profile of a lead dev flexing that his monetazation makes the studio 15 million dollars a month, averaging about 200 million a year. Now you can of course, and should, take everything with a grain of salt. But it's important because now that ESO is a MS property, they require all games deliver a 30% profit margin. That's a bit higher than industry standard. So I try not to be too hard on them for crown store stuff. As long as they're not selling power. I hope they continue to sell flashy and not flashy stuff in there. I really love my plain jane mounts and my crazy jaguar that explodes into existence from the cosmos apparently and swirls with cosmic smoke. Costumes I'm a little more conservative and I don't use any skins, so options are good. That's why I hope they give robust options for people to not see others stuff as well.

twisttop138 · March 22

BretonMage wrote: »

$15 million in monthly revenue would include subscriptions, paid content and the crown store, I'd say.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I fully agree with ESO's "play the way you want" mantra. What I don't agree with is the people who are coming out to the forums to complain "you aren't allowed to play the way you want because that goes against the way I want."

People telling me that I should not be allowed to replay quests or change classes on my only character because I must make a new character to re-experience content - that's not allowing me to play how I want (and it's not even something that affects others).

A complaint about ESO's aesthetic identity changing is not quite the same thing.

You're correct. Monetization includes everything. Replaying quests would be cool.

Erickson9610 · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

What I am saying is why do they even exist in this game in the first place? They don't belong in an Elder Scrolls world and break immersion for many.

They do belong in The Elder Scrolls because ESO is canon and the franchise is still changing over time.

Imagine if we received Skyrim immediately after receiving Arena. There's so much different between those two games that you'd have one crowd claiming that Skyrim cannot be canon because it's too different from Arena, both in terms of gameplay (the lack of classes, the addition of Imperials and Orcs as playable races, etc) and in terms of lore.

This is because franchises evolve over time. ESO has been the main way that the Elder Scrolls franchise has evolved over time since Skyrim, and we see how it affects other TES games like Legends and Oblivion Remastered.

So, like it or not, ESO is the product of how TES has changed since Skyrim. Maybe the next singleplayer title will take a different art style, but it's undeniable the impact ESO continues to have on this franchise. So if it's made canon by ESO, then it does belong in The Elder Scrolls.

SilverBride · March 22

I don't believe these flashy effects are canon.

Erickson9610 · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't believe these flashy effects are canon.

I'm not able to convince you otherwise, then.

YandereGirlfriend · March 22

For flashy effects, I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Has nobody ever summoned a basic Flame Atronach in Skyrim and experienced the loud summoning buzz, large, glowing animation, and screenspace distortrion? They do not just appear like a friend casually walking in from the other room. You are literally summoning an entity from another plane of existence.

Ditto for something like Arvak. Arvak is supremely ESO before ESO ever existed. Flashy summoning animation - CHECK. Bizarre mount concept that strains the existing lore - CHECK. Permanent particle effects - CHECK. Extremely popular with many players - CHECK.

Magic in TES IS flashy. And becoming moreso as technological progress continues. I feel like there is quite some cherry-picking about what "fits" the series when it has been here all along.

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't believe these flashy effects are canon.

Our opinions don't really matter, though.

Only those of the devs do because they are, at the end of the day, the ones actually making the game.

SilverBride · March 22

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Magic in TES IS flashy.

2H weapons aren't magic though, so why add bright flashy effects to them?

smallhammer · March 22

Everything is becoming more like wow, to please the kids, i assume.

tomofhyrule · March 22

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

For flashy effects, I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Has nobody ever summoned a basic Flame Atronach in Skyrim and experienced the loud summoning buzz, large, glowing animation, and screenspace distortrion? They do not just appear like a friend casually walking in from the other room. You are literally summoning an entity from another plane of existence.

Ditto for something like Arvak. Arvak is supremely ESO before ESO ever existed. Flashy summoning animation - CHECK. Bizarre mount concept that strains the existing lore - CHECK. Permanent particle effects - CHECK. Extremely popular with many players - CHECK.

Magic in TES IS flashy. And becoming moreso as technological progress continues. I feel like there is quite some cherry-picking about what "fits" the series when it has been here all along.

You just made me think of Morrowind.

Like... this is an actual basegame character in Morrowind. It's Ranabi in the Erabenimsun tribe.

I definitely wouldn't call Morrowind's version of the Shield spell (or literally any enchanted gear covered in saran wrap) as 'mundane.'

katanagirl1 · March 22

Syldras wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I wanted to also mention a bug conversation in a guild discord right now about the new mounts. It was many people's opinion that the mount up animation makes or breaks a mount for them. The mounts that have an interesting animation were considered to be the ones most worth it.

And I know a few people who found a mount design interesting, but decided against buying it specifically because they disliked the summoning animation being a huge explosion (people don't exactly want to get migraines from summoning their own mount). I've also seen some mount once where even I, despite usually not being interested in cosmetics much, thought it would be a nice addition to my playthroughs for a longer time, so buying it might be worth it - but then it had some glowy effects permanently floating around it, which I found annoying, so I dropped that idea. Without the effects I would have bought it.

In the end, everyone likes different things, but I still think introducing mounts with extremely obtrusive effects that greatly affect the environment and all players around was not good in terms of design. I understand that especially apex mounts are supposed to be eye-catching, and to make people who see them on another player want to buy them too, but if some effects are seen as an annoyance by a bigger number of players, that makes them avoid crowded game locations, and in the end make them play the game less, then something went wrong. At some point, it's just "too eye-catching", and not in a positive way.

This is really what needs to be addressed in the toggle/whatever for visual effects that is rumored to be introduced later. It is the mount animation that is the real problem, I don’t have sensitivities to light or sound but someone on a flashy mount or using a flashy recall can completely blind my view for a few seconds. I would like to not see that part. This is a basic need.

I think some of the mounts are a little over the top, ZOS has really jumped the shark since the Voidmother Welwa in my opinion. I won’t buy those but I don’t really care if someone else has it. I actually like seeing all the mounts other players use when I am part of a scroll run in Cyrodiil, it’s pretty cool. I would not be opposed to another setting to only see basic mounts that others have asked for but I hope that would be a separate setting from the enable/disable other player’s mount animations.

Syldras · March 22

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So if it's made canon by ESO, then it does belong in The Elder Scrolls.

This is one reason why it would be important to be careful when choosing what to add to the game - if a thing has been added, it becomes part of lore forever, no matter how nonsensical it might be for the whole setting.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't call Morrowind's version of the Shield spell (or literally any enchanted gear covered in saran wrap) as 'mundane.'

To me, it clearly makes a difference if a visual effect has meaning or not:
- A spell being colorful makes sense.
- A precious, rare artifact having extraordinary visuals makes sense.
- A dolmen making an unsettling loud noise absolutely makes sense - it's a huge, dangerous, daedric thing, it's supposed to be unsettling, after all.
Putting emphasis on important events or items in a story by giving them special visuals and sound effects is a normal thing to do.

You know what does not make sense?
Some rando summoning their horse having the same grand effects like a world event, or even more extreme visuals and sound effects.

SilverBride · March 22

I may not like mounts with swords coming out their sides or recalls with big huge bubbles but I could tolerate these visuals if they just turned off the explosive sounds and bright lights.

Erickson9610 · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Magic in TES IS flashy.

2H weapons aren't magic though, so why add bright flashy effects to them?

That's the art style of ESO. It's like how TES Castles has a drastically different art style compared to TES Skyrim.

In ESO, the VFX of those skills are there to fit the overall aesthetic of the game, and more importantly they're there to make the skills telegraph better in combat, particularly in PvP (since this is an online game). Further, the Two Handed VFX make it easy to create Skill Styles to customize how they look.

tomofhyrule · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

I may not like mounts with swords coming out their sides or recalls with big huge bubbles but I could tolerate these visuals if they just turned off the explosive sounds and bright lights.

I do think the perpetual 'resummon' animation is not necessary.

As it is in game currently, the game will replay the sound/effect spam for summonning a mount every time it comes on screen... so if you are riding around and someone on a sparklepony is riding the same direction as you and are far enough to be popping in and out of render distance, the 'summon mount' effect will play every time they appear in range.

That's bad. If it's already active, let it stay active. We don't need a whole column of light every time you get in range of it.

Erickson9610 · March 22

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So if it's made canon by ESO, then it does belong in The Elder Scrolls.

This is one reason why it would be important to be careful when choosing what to add to the game - if a thing has been added, it becomes part of lore forever, no matter how nonsensical it might be for the whole setting.

I think ZOS has been doing a good job so far. Even when they do add crossover content, such as those baby Argonians from TES Castles that walk around in their eggs, they redesign it in such a way that makes sense for the game and setting — in this case, making them baby guars that walk around in their eggs, being sure to provide flavor text to justify why it's here.

To be clear, I bring this up not to say that TES Castles isn't canon. Like how we know the children from TES Skyrim are still canon, I'm saying that in order to maintain the tone of the game (and save development time reusing assets) ESO opted to create additional lore to facilitate the crossover. We know from ESO and TES Castles that both Argonians and guars can walk around still in their eggs, but both games have totally different tones that justify portraying one or the other.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 22

Erickson9610 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Magic in TES IS flashy.

2H weapons aren't magic though, so why add bright flashy effects to them?

That's the art style of ESO. It's like how TES Castles has a drastically different art style compared to TES Skyrim.

In ESO, the VFX of those skills are there to fit the overall aesthetic of the game, and more importantly they're there to make the skills telegraph better in combat, particularly in PvP (since this is an online game). Further, the Two Handed VFX make it easy to create Skill Styles to customize how they look.

But it wasn't the art style of ESO before this. Style consistency is an important thing for a quality mmo, but ESO's style is not consistent to how it was or TES as a whole. There has also been several comments about how these changes do not help telegraph skills better in combat, in fact I've seen many consider them worse for it.

MissNoir · March 22

SilverBride wrote: »

They said no slider so it will be a preset option. I just hope it's a very strong option and not just dimming the lights a little.

I still remember the disappointment hitting me when I saw how useless the setting “hide followers in town” was when introduced. My hopes for this setting to be anything worth using is zero. I find it hard to see them give us any options to reduce the flash and bang people pay lots of money for. I sure hope Zos will prove me wrong.

SilverBride · March 22

MissNoir wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

They said no slider so it will be a preset option. I just hope it's a very strong option and not just dimming the lights a little.

I still remember the disappointment hitting me when I saw how useless the setting “hide followers in town” was when introduced. My hopes for this setting to be anything worth using is zero. I find it hard to see them give us any options to reduce the flash and bang people pay lots of money for. I sure hope Zos will prove me wrong.

They say it's in the works. And it won't hurt anyone that buys these things because they can still see all the effects.

Hide pets in town doesn't work. I had a screenshot of a Sorcerer right next to me at the Clothing craft table in town with both of their pets right at the table. But I think toggling off effects will work differently. At least I hope so.

tomofhyrule · March 22

Syldras wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't call Morrowind's version of the Shield spell (or literally any enchanted gear covered in saran wrap) as 'mundane.'

To me, it clearly makes a difference if a visual effect has meaning or not:
- A spell being colorful makes sense.
- A precious, rare artifact having extraordinary visuals makes sense.
- A dolmen making an unsettling loud noise absolutely makes sense - it's a huge, dangerous, daedric thing, it's supposed to be unsettling, after all.
Putting emphasis on important events or items in a story by giving them special visuals and sound effects is a normal thing to do.

You know what does not make sense?
Some rando summoning their horse having the same grand effects like a world event, or even more extreme visuals and sound effects.

Again, this is something that can be nuanced. What ruins the story to one person can reinforce the story for another.

Here's an example. I do need to be a bit vague about it because it involves a datamined asset though, so please forgive me for dancing around a bit.

There was a custom recall animation in one of the recent datamines that has yet to release. Just from the picture, it can be seen that this would be a quite imposing recall animation with lights (and likely sounds, but we can't tell just from the image), and it is a clear reference to a specific thing in the Elder Scrolls lore.
To a lot of people in this thread, this is 100% something that would be offensive since it would be an eyesore and does take visuals that have a meaning in the universe.

However... I saw it and I got so excited and I hope it releases, because it fits one of my characters perfectly. That specific thing in universe that it references is a major part of his backstory, and as I have let him develop as a character, that part of his story only got more and more important to him. He currently uses the Sithis recall animation because... it's red and he's a Nightblade. But it doesn't make sense for him at all - he's not in the Brotherhood so the praying is wrong, he wasn't born under the Shadow so dissolving into a shadow puddle is stupid. But that datamined one is perfect for him since that's exactly part of his backstory.

What one person sees as "this ruins my immersion because it shouldn't be a common thing!" is another person's "this makes me so much more immersed since it fits so well for my character's story!"

Now, are there people who will choose flashy and obnoxious mounts/animations/skill styles/etc. specifically because it's annoying? Yes of course. People will be people.
But that comes with the territory of an MMO, which - as much as people want to pretend it's not - this game is. When I see someone on an obnoxious mount, I roll my eyes and go on with my day. I don't complain about how my entire experience in game was ruined by a troll (who may or may not even be trolling). And if I want a world where I can dictate how everything looks to my exact standards, I go back to a single-player game.
Heck, I know the way I play the TES mainline games would be offensive to some people, considering I hate using magic in the games. I'd prefer we not have any spells from the start since I don't want to play any sort of mage whatsoever. But - to hear people on this forum say it - TES games are all about nothing but being able to cast every spell in the game one right after another.

I was looking for another quote to respond, but I can't for the life of me find it. It was a similar thread from a while ago where people were complaining about the flashiness of things, and Kevin even came in and said something to the extent of "we want to make sure we have some things for everyone, so some things are flashy and some are not." So to that end, I went through all of the Crown Store stuff from March (the new Crates and the new stuff from the Showcase) to see how that balances:

I'm assigning these into one of three categories:
R: Ridiculous, Flashy and Obnoxious with a tenuous connection at best to the lore
E: Exotic, something that would fit in universe in a way, but would definitely earn some sideways glances from more conservative members of society
M: Mundane, something that would fit well in the specific culture represented.

So it does actually seem like there's a mix of stuff for everyone in here. And as can be expected, the vast majority of the flashiest stuff is in the higher tier of the Crown Crates, and the more mundane stuff is lower tier in the crates or not in the crates at all.

Again, we all have different views. I personally do not like these crates at all, and this is the first set I haven't bought a single one of. I really only needed two or three things so I used my Seals and Gems and am hoping the U50 set is better. But I will not fault anyone who wants to turn into a pink nebula and ride a starry pink sparkleornaug. I'll just turn my camera to a different direction until they've passed by.

SilverBride · March 22

It's fine to have something for everyone. But when that something comes with a loud explosion, and a flash of light so big that it fills half the screen, and so bright that it causes physical pain... and forces it on everyone around them whether they like it or not... that takes away the preference of those that like a pleasant atmosphere in favor of those that like flashy. No one preference should be so extreme that it causes distress and discomfort for others.

Malyore · March 23

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I definitely wouldn't call Morrowind's version of the Shield spell (or literally any enchanted gear covered in saran wrap) as 'mundane.'

To me, it clearly makes a difference if a visual effect has meaning or not:
- A spell being colorful makes sense.
- A precious, rare artifact having extraordinary visuals makes sense.
- A dolmen making an unsettling loud noise absolutely makes sense - it's a huge, dangerous, daedric thing, it's supposed to be unsettling, after all.
Putting emphasis on important events or items in a story by giving them special visuals and sound effects is a normal thing to do.

You know what does not make sense?
Some rando summoning their horse having the same grand effects like a world event, or even more extreme visuals and sound effects.

Again, this is something that can be nuanced. What ruins the story to one person can reinforce the story for another.

Here's an example. I do need to be a bit vague about it because it involves a datamined asset though, so please forgive me for dancing around a bit.

There was a custom recall animation in one of the recent datamines that has yet to release. Just from the picture, it can be seen that this would be a quite imposing recall animation with lights (and likely sounds, but we can't tell just from the image), and it is a clear reference to a specific thing in the Elder Scrolls lore.
To a lot of people in this thread, this is 100% something that would be offensive since it would be an eyesore and does take visuals that have a meaning in the universe.

However... I saw it and I got so excited and I hope it releases, because it fits one of my characters perfectly. That specific thing in universe that it references is a major part of his backstory, and as I have let him develop as a character, that part of his story only got more and more important to him. ...

What one person sees as "this ruins my immersion because it shouldn't be a common thing!" is another person's "this makes me so much more immersed since it fits so well for my character's story!"

That is the thing though, it isn't being nuanced.
You know what would achieve both fitting your character and also fit the world? The orange orb portals that daedra use. It's something we see NPCs, quests, environments, etc. already have, without being so extremely disruptive to others.

Also consider why it is immersion breaking. What does it mean for 20+ people to be using such recalls and mounts in the middle of a town? How does using your recall in the middle of an indoor bank in Wayrest fit your character? What does it mean for them, the environment and their place within it?

Syldras · March 23

Exactly. It's a multiplayer game, so ideally, the world's atmosphere as a whole should be kept in mind. Every animation one player uses doesn't only affect this one player (who might find it awesome, because of the cool visuals, or because they find it fitting for their character's story - it's all understandable, everyone has different ideas and a different taste) after all - but it also affects everyone else who is around. Which can be dozens of different people in cities, who might not find that animation fitting or immersive at all. And that's already one design decision I personally question: The obtrusiveness. No matter what a personal animation is about, it should not be able to white out other players' screens with a flashy explosion effect.

And now, let us just take the dolmen example again: I might choose to play a Worm Cultist. I might make up a story how this character has somehow become Molag Bal's favorite champion and has somehow, by complicated means, received an artifact (or developed a spell or whatever) to summon a mini dolmen to teleport directly to Coldharbor or back to Tamriel with it. Maybe Molag Bal was even so friendly to gift this ability to every single Worm Cultist - wonderful, so I could group with my cultists buddies, 15 of them, and then we can travel Tamriel together and all summon our dolmens inside banks, crafting areas and at the ending point of the latest story event (right in front of the quest npc holding the ending speech). For our roleplay this might absolutely make sense. But it would still disturb everyone else, and that is a factor that good design would need to take into consideration, from my point of view.

To me it feels like the balance is off. Even if we just look at sound effects. Let's say there's a scale from 0 to 100. Random city background chatter would maybe be at 30, weapon and spell effects at 55, because they matter for combat and need to be heard as an indicator of what's happening. Quest and instructive dialogue could maybe also be on that loudness level. Huge impactful world events like dolmens could be on 75 or so, so they draw the attention they deserve and also leave a bit of an intimidating atmosphere. Absolutely fine. But then some random guy's mount summoning, which doesn't matter for anyone around at all, suddenly causes a level 90 explosion?! How exactly does that make sense, design-wise? It's a basic principle - nothing new, but something very common for decades (even before video games even existed, in movies) - that important elements/events get stronger, more noticeable, effects, hinting at their importance, and unimportant random background stuff does not.

Take a moment and imagine that there was some old western movie, and someone would edit the sound-track of it, so that every time a random horse shows up on screen, there would be a loud explosion sound. Everyone would find that absurd, and would probably laugh at the absurdity of it. And it would be totally clear that this is distracting from the actual story and impairing the experience because it makes it hard to really immerse.

tomofhyrule · March 23

Syldras wrote: »

Exactly. It's a multiplayer game, so ideally, the world's atmosphere as a whole should be kept in mind. Every animation one player uses doesn't only affect this one player (who might find it awesome, because of the cool visuals, or because they find it fitting for their character's story - it's all understandable, everyone has different ideas and a different taste) after all - but it also affects everyone else who is around. Which can be dozens of different people in cities, who might not find that animation fitting or immersive at all. And that's already one design decision I personally question: The obtrusiveness. No matter what a personal animation is about, it should not be able to white out other players' screens with a flashy explosion effect.

And where does that line get drawn then?

I was told that I was the only Vestige because I alone went with Lyris through the Wailing Prison to save the Prophet. That means that it is not lore appropriate for me to see any other characters interact with skyshards out in the world, and I do see them animate and glow during that. Should I therefore demand that no other players may collect Skyshards around me?

No. Obviously not.

Look, most people in this thread are really asking for one thing: a way to hide other players (from some of their elements to their effects to their animations to the entire player themself) from the game so they don't have to see them. That's what you're asking for. You're leaning on other players existing and playing the game as them being unconscionably rude for using anything other than the default cosmetics. I've even seen people who are frequently posting in this thread complaining in another thread that other players had lore-inappropriate names.

Maybe you can ask ZOS to expand this forthcoming "hide other things" option to go as far as to hide other players from the game completely. I'm sure things like private servers would also be massive hits for the players, even though the dev team seems to prefer that the population does not get fragmented (see all of the arguments about the upcoming difficulty not being sharded). I also think it could be an interesting experiment if they did give an option to hide everything and saw if that impacted sales of cosmetics... but if it did, I wouldn't be surprised for them to remove that option.

This all comes down to one factor: this game does need to make money somehow. There's a good reason that websites like YouTube are waging wars on AdBlockers even though there's not a single person who wants to see those ads.
Would watching videos be a much better experience if we didn't have to sit through unskippable ads or pay their stupid subscription? Of course! That'd be wonderful!
But can the company support doing so? That server space does need to get funded somehow...

BretonMage · March 23

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

For flashy effects, I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Has nobody ever summoned a basic Flame Atronach in Skyrim and experienced the loud summoning buzz, large, glowing animation, and screenspace distortrion? They do not just appear like a friend casually walking in from the other room. You are literally summoning an entity from another plane of existence.

Ditto for something like Arvak. Arvak is supremely ESO before ESO ever existed. Flashy summoning animation - CHECK. Bizarre mount concept that strains the existing lore - CHECK. Permanent particle effects - CHECK. Extremely popular with many players - CHECK.

Magic in TES IS flashy. And becoming moreso as technological progress continues. I feel like there is quite some cherry-picking about what "fits" the series when it has been here all along.

Yeah, we had always had some bright-ish magic spells in the previous games, but none have been so saturated, so extremely colourful. That, I believe, is why OP called it cartoony.

It wasn't even too bad before 2024, we had the Meridian Charger, which was bright, but still reasonably coloured. Then last year we got: the intensely flashy red Twilight; the very bright, very densely purple Elemental Rage and Walls of Elements styles; Khenarthi's Thundersteed. And now the very pink, sparkly ornaug, alongside the very pink, sparkly lightning form style. Recent VFX have been much more painful to look at than any of the previous ones.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But that comes with the territory of an MMO, which - as much as people want to pretend it's not - this game is. When I see someone on an obnoxious mount, I roll my eyes and go on with my day. I don't complain about how my entire experience in game was ruined by a troll (who may or may not even be trolling).
<snip>

Again, we all have different views. I personally do not like these crates at all, and this is the first set I haven't bought a single one of. I really only needed two or three things so I used my Seals and Gems and am hoping the U50 set is better. But I will not fault anyone who wants to turn into a pink nebula and ride a starry pink sparkleornaug. I'll just turn my camera to a different direction until they've passed by.

None of us are accusing players of anything. Of course if it's in the crates, I don't fault them for using it. This thread is about ZOS putting them in the world in the first place, and the recent increase in these flashy collectibles.

It was a similar thread from a while ago where people were complaining about the flashiness of things, and Kevin even came in and said something to the extent of "we want to make sure we have some things for everyone, so some things are flashy and some are not." So to that end, I went through all of the Crown Store stuff from March (the new Crates and the new stuff from the Showcase) to see how that balances:
I'm assigning these into one of three categories:
R: Ridiculous, Flashy and Obnoxious with a tenuous connection at best to the lore
E: Exotic, something that would fit in universe in a way, but would definitely earn some sideways glances from more conservative members of society
M: Mundane, something that would fit well in the specific culture represented.

So it does actually seem like there's a mix of stuff for everyone in here. And as can be expected, the vast majority of the flashiest stuff is in the higher tier of the Crown Crates, and the more mundane stuff is lower tier in the crates or not in the crates at all.

One would have to look at it in the wider context of other developments. The increasingly bright and flashy skill styles that did not exist pre-2025, the DK refresh, the increasing frequency of these incredibly flashy radiant apex mounts, the increasingly explosive summoning animations, the increasing intensity in colour of all these collectibles. They are all leading to the increasing "cartoony" aspect of ESO.

And whilst one crate might be "balanced" (I'd argue that having all radiant apexes be Ridiculous is not exactly balanced), the cumulative effect of players having Ridiculous collectibles from over the years means that any space with a number of players will be generally be rather Ridiculous. You might have one player with the pink ornaug, one player with the Meridian Charger, one player with Kenarthi's Thundersteed, one with the Celestial Ram, a few players with the red Twilight, a few DKs with Molten Weapons on, a few players porting out with the Accursed or Coldharbour recalls, porting in with the Mages Guild recall...

It adds up, and we know more are on the way. Hence this thread.

Malyore · March 23

tomofhyrule wrote: »

This all comes down to one factor: this game does need to make money somehow. There's a good reason that websites like YouTube are waging wars on AdBlockers even though there's not a single person who wants to see those ads.
Would watching videos be a much better experience if we didn't have to sit through unskippable ads or pay their stupid subscription? Of course! That'd be wonderful!
But can the company support doing so? That server space does need to get funded somehow...

You're right, Skyrim has never made successful amounts of money without adding glowing skin cosmetics inside gamble crates. That's obviously the only option to get people to pay money for a videogame.

I'm exaggerating to try to make a point. I understand that Skyrim and ESO are different games. But the point being that there are ways for a game to still make money, with other values and quality to be provided and purchasable besides neon horses.
Yes, ESO has to make money somehow. That is not in dispute. "Somehow" is not monolithic, either. Where would that line get drawn? Does ZOS add cat-earred headphone adornments and maid outfits to the store if it comes down to the one factor, that they have to make money somehow. Therefore, adding nonsense into the game is okay, because: profit = servers.

I'd argue that we are paying them to meet general expectations of Elder Scrolls. They chose to use this IP, it is their job to provide it.