Why is everything becoming more cartoony?

SilverBride · March 17

It's easy to miss information when it isn't all in one place. It would be helpful to have a pinned thread on what options are being worked on to reduce effects.

@ZOS_Kevin Would this be possible?

DenverRalphy · March 17

SilverBride wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Which regarding that, they mentioned they're going to add the ability to adjust sliders not only for other peoples' Mounts, Skill, and so on, but a player's own things as well.

They stated that they are not going to use sliders in the thread below. Post #18. This post also mentions accessibility and I strongly hope this does not mean the option will be part of the accessibility mode so that we would have to use that to get the benefit. We really need some clarification on that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208

You're reading way too much into it. The word accessiblity in that comment was used in the context that it's easier for joe-average-player to clicky a preset than trying to dial in an optimal performance setting. Especially given that not all gaming rigs are built equally, as well a number of players may not fully understand what they're adjusting, thus a threshold based system of presets would be better in the long run.

Don't fret the use of the word Accessibilitlly. Obviously they wouldn't bury a feature for all players in Accessiblity mode. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

edit: typos

SilverBride · March 17

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Which regarding that, they mentioned they're going to add the ability to adjust sliders not only for other peoples' Mounts, Skill, and so on, but a player's own things as well.

They stated that they are not going to use sliders in the thread below. Post #18. This post also mentions accessibility and I strongly hope this does not mean the option will be part of the accessibility mode so that we would have to use that to get the benefit. We really need some clarification on that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208

You're reading way too much into it. The word accessiblity in that comment was used in the context that it's easier for joe-average-player to clicky a preset than trying to dial in an optimal performance setting. Especially given that not all gaming rigs are built equally, as well a number of players may not fully understand what they're adjusting, thus a threshold based system of presets would be better in the long run.

Don't fret the use of the word Accessibilitlly. Obviously they wouldn't bury a feature for all players in Accessiblity mode. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

edit: typos

I hope you are right!

twisttop138 · March 17

Elvenheart wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When it was only mounts and recalls that were over the top gawdy players had the option to not use them. But now they have crossed the line by adding these outlandish effects to skill lines.

Skills are fundamental. If a player is forced to change the skills they use to avoid these effects then they can no longer play as they want. This line should never have been crossed.

I agree. This 2H weapons refresh and every other weapon refresh coming up needs to automatically come with a set of skill styles that reflect the old animations as closely as possible so people will have the choice of ones to use that reflect their characters better. Some of us have had characters for 11+ years and a graphical change like this can be radical.

It reminds me of another game I’m not going to mention the name of that did a so-called graphical update to their character models. I’m sure some people liked the new models, but in my opinion, it ruined them because they were no longer the characters I had been playing for years.

I'm assuming you meant Star wars the old Republic. That was a jarring change. Idk why you wouldn't wanna mention it. I suppose you could mean something else but swtor caused a lot of uproar with it.

As far as skill styles, the changes don't bother me but bring on the skill styles. In game, not store. I have a sneaking suspicion that you will find lots of skill styles padding out tomes rewards.

I really had no idea SWTOR did that too. I’m sad to hear that because I did play that game and still have my characters there even though I haven’t logged in in forever. I was referring to DAoC.

Oh yeah man. It was big. Fashion scrolls is as big there as it is here. You can imagine how it would go over here. Great game. Haven't played in years and years. Happy it's still chugging.

Edit spelling

SkaiFaith · March 17

Syldras wrote: »

You know what would have been good game design? Limiting visually spectacular effects to things that have a spectacular and extraordinary meaning. How special does a rare artifact still feel if you barely see it because everything else (and mostly much more mundane) looks even flashier? What effect do dolmens and other world events still have now that there's a dozen of fast-travel animations that look more extreme? I remember that when I started playing ESO 10 years ago, not only did the dolmen sound still mean a thing, seeing the first chains drop from the sky left an impression. As did the first harrowstorm a few years later. New players joining now probably see two dozens of mounts exploding, a glass atronach and a harrowing reaper standing in the bank, Molag Bal shooting laser beams, and 5 mini teleport dolmens before coming across the first real one, that then looks mundane in comparison.

I have not read the whole thread but about this... Next zone they add should have Pinball (s/) as world event, because as you pointed out, a new player would otherwise see more spectacle from random players, owners of cosmetics, than from Bosses and fights.

I am not against cosmetics. I enjoy them. But I'd also specify that there's difference between anime style and cartoon style, and I agree it is getting cartoony - I pointed this out in a poll I made in 2024 about the aesthetic's direction the game should take going forward, but back then people didn't see the cartoonish coming as I did (and feared).
Funnily enough, "Cartoonish" was the only option in the poll that didn't get a single vote.
But, oh boy, we are going to see praises to "AI style" soon, let me tell you.

liliub17_ESO · March 17

SilverBride wrote: »

They stated that they are not going to use sliders in the thread below. Post #18. This post also mentions accessibility and I strongly hope this does not mean the option will be part of the accessibility mode so that we would have to use that to get the benefit. We really need some clarification on that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208

For reference, that was on Jan 23. Has there been any word since?

SilverBride · March 17

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I pointed this out in a poll I made in 2024 about the aesthetic's direction the game should take going forward, but back then people didn't see the cartoonish coming as I did (and feared).
Funnily enough, "Cartoonish" was the only option in the poll that didn't get a single vote.

Thank you for providing some very interesting information. Although this makes me wonder even more why this is happening.

If not one single vote was given to wanting the game to go into a cartoonish direction then why are they? If this is what players wanted wouldn't some have voted for that? I am now even more confused that ever over WHY it has gone in this direction.

SilverBride · March 17

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

They stated that they are not going to use sliders in the thread below. Post #18. This post also mentions accessibility and I strongly hope this does not mean the option will be part of the accessibility mode so that we would have to use that to get the benefit. We really need some clarification on that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208

For reference, that was on Jan 23. Has there been any word since?

Not that I have seen. An update would be very appreciated.

LunaFlora · March 17

Are there any specific examples of animated film that you think of when you refer to things in ESO as "cartoony"?

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

They stated that they are not going to use sliders in the thread below. Post #18. This post also mentions accessibility and I strongly hope this does not mean the option will be part of the accessibility mode so that we would have to use that to get the benefit. We really need some clarification on that.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208

For reference, that was on Jan 23. Has there been any word since?

nothing else no.

Dev updates are potentially the next time we get an update on visual effect options

randconfig · March 17

randconfig wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Nothing can beat the Flubber Bear:

Space blob mount is so beyond Flubber Bear that it doesn't even bother rendering an outline:

BEHOLD!

THE LATEST, THE GREATEST!!

THE ELEPHANT WAR MOUNT!!!

(Oh boy, I cannot wait until they release the elephant space war flubber blob with red lightning version )

JimT722 · March 18

the Elephant is very cool and not too flashy. I have enough seals so I probably will pick it up. Elephants are cool.

emilyhyoyeon · March 18

Yeah I don't see what's cartoony about an overall normal looking war elephant. The magical tattoos/sigils pull it away from the mundane side, but otherwise, it's decently plain, especially considering that it's a radiant apex.

I would 100% be getting that elephant when it comes out if it didn't have the sigils.

Orbital78 · March 18

randconfig wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Nothing can beat the Flubber Bear:

Space blob mount is so beyond Flubber Bear that it doesn't even bother rendering an outline:

BEHOLD!

THE LATEST, THE GREATEST!!

THE ELEPHANT WAR MOUNT!!!

(Oh boy, I cannot wait until they release the elephant space war flubber blob with red lightning version )

I like the look of this, I thought I saw a group multi-rider elephant/mammoth somewhere too. Is that even possible?

LunaFlora · March 18

Orbital78 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Nothing can beat the Flubber Bear:

Space blob mount is so beyond Flubber Bear that it doesn't even bother rendering an outline:

BEHOLD!

THE LATEST, THE GREATEST!!

THE ELEPHANT WAR MOUNT!!!

(Oh boy, I cannot wait until they release the elephant space war flubber blob with red lightning version )

I like the look of this, I thought I saw a group multi-rider elephant/mammoth somewhere too. Is that even possible?

there is no official information about a multi rider elephant,
so that was likely from a datamine

randconfig · March 18

JimT722 wrote: »

the Elephant is very cool and not too flashy. I have enough seals so I probably will pick it up. Elephants are cool.

I don't think it's that bad either. Just the thought of an elephant fully saturated-with-color and exploding with lightning would be hilarious to me.

Malyore · March 18

While I disagree with your stigma against cartoons, I do agree that ESO continues to stray further from its Elder Scrolls roots in an unappealing way.

SilverBride · March 18

I dislike cartoons because of how loud and flashy they are. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant and I don't like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game.

OutLaw_Nynx · March 18

Yall know that people do like these. Look at how many people rush to buy new crown crates for the mounts. They buy the flashy things.

LunaFlora · March 18

SilverBride wrote: »

I dislike cartoons because of how loud and flashy they are. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant and I don't like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game.

Loud noise and bright lights are painful to me too, though i am sensitive to noise and light.

i am wondering what cartoons you are thinking of? some cartoons definitely have that, but personally i have seen more live action films with intrusive effects.
You never give any examples for what makes you refer to game items as "cartoony".

it seems easier to make this about inaccessibility as flashing and loud effects can cause physical pain.
And i dislike that in any media, films and games alike.

colossalvoids · March 18

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I dislike cartoons because of how loud and flashy they are. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant and I don't like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game.

Loud noise and bright lights are painful to me too, though i am sensitive to noise and light.

i am wondering what cartoons you are thinking of? some cartoons definitely have that, but personally i have seen more live action films with intrusive effects.
You never give any examples for what makes you refer to game items as "cartoony".

it seems easier to make this about inaccessibility as flashing and loud effects can cause physical pain.
And i dislike that in any media, films and games alike.

Most recent example could be the Molten Armaments from DK's rework, it does look more WoW'esque rather than belonging to ESO so that's where "cartoonish" is coming from most likely. It doesn't involve actual quality animation but "that" look from games like DotA, WoW etc. and modern flashy animation for actual kids.

JimT722 · March 18

colossalvoids wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I dislike cartoons because of how loud and flashy they are. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant and I don't like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game.

Loud noise and bright lights are painful to me too, though i am sensitive to noise and light.

i am wondering what cartoons you are thinking of? some cartoons definitely have that, but personally i have seen more live action films with intrusive effects.
You never give any examples for what makes you refer to game items as "cartoony".

it seems easier to make this about inaccessibility as flashing and loud effects can cause physical pain.
And i dislike that in any media, films and games alike.

Most recent example could be the Molten Armaments from DK's rework, it does look more WoW'esque rather than belonging to ESO so that's where "cartoonish" is coming from most likely. It doesn't involve actual quality animation but "that" look from games like DotA, WoW etc. and modern flashy animation for actual kids.

I don't know if cartoony or WoW'esque is how I would describe molten armaments. It's just bad. I do hate it the more I look at it. And I really hated it to begin with. Which is a shame because I really enjoy everything else about the rework. they should scrap the new armaments.

Tariq9898 · March 18

LunaFlora wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I dislike cartoons because of how loud and flashy they are. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant and I don't like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game.

Loud noise and bright lights are painful to me too, though i am sensitive to noise and light.

i am wondering what cartoons you are thinking of? some cartoons definitely have that, but personally i have seen more live action films with intrusive effects.
You never give any examples for what makes you refer to game items as "cartoony".

it seems easier to make this about inaccessibility as flashing and loud effects can cause physical pain.
And i dislike that in any media, films and games alike.

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights. Personally not a huge fan of it. A example would be Demon Slayer. This scene right here does hurt my eyes a bit. Just skip to 1:44. Fair warning to those more sensitive: this could hurt your eyes!

https://youtu.be/daaMNj4F9Ts?si=xTjqloSZGHb9Lkh7

Essentially it’s the over stimulus of bright, intense, “hard” lights. And as someone else stated, the new rework, especially the 2h skills, does seem to draw inspiration from Japanese anime. This does veer away from the more grounded and atmospheric art style of Elder Scrolls. Everything now seems more over the top and exaggerated rather than having historical and mythological weight.

For me, the art style that is most representative of the Elder Scrolls universe would be less like anime and more painterly. Like an epic John Martin painting or color palette similar to the Lord of the Rings film trilogy.

twisttop138 · March 18

randconfig wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Nothing can beat the Flubber Bear:

Space blob mount is so beyond Flubber Bear that it doesn't even bother rendering an outline:

BEHOLD!

THE LATEST, THE GREATEST!!

THE ELEPHANT WAR MOUNT!!!

(Oh boy, I cannot wait until they release the elephant space war flubber blob with red lightning version )

The elephant was a gigantic hit in multiple guild discords yesterday. It's generating buzz and it will definitely generate sales. Not big on the sigils myself but otherwise awesome. If it had red lightening it would be a must buy for me.

Syldras · March 18

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights.

Anime is a visual art (can't even say "genre" because within it, all genres exist, just like all genres exist for novels, or live action movies, or music). Despite different traditions I wouldn't even say it's something different from Western animated cartoons - the only thing that makes it anime is, by definition, that it's an animated cartoon from Japan. Which can look like the video you linked above. Or it can look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKi1VlE94A

It's been a few decades since my early childhood, but I can't remember that having flashy effects

Or Vicky the Viking, or Maya the Honey Bee, which are also all, by definition, anime = animated cartoons from Japan.

So I think if we talk about very colorful and flashy effects here, it might be better - if just for the sake of precision - to call it exactly that. Because anime, or cartoons as a whole, include many vastly different visual styles (the only thing they have in common, really, is that they're drawn instead of having real people as actors playing the roles).

Tariq9898 · March 18

Syldras wrote: »

Tariq9898 wrote: »

Not the person asked but for me, anime is by far the most intrusive when it comes to bright lights.

Anime is a visual art (can't even say "genre" because within it, all genres exist, just like all genres exist for novels, or live action movies, or music). Despite different traditions I wouldn't even say it's something different from Western animated cartoons - the only thing that makes it anime is, by definition, that it's an animated cartoon from Japan. Which can look like the video you linked above. Or it can look like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hKi1VlE94A

It's been a few decades since my early childhood, but I can't remember that having flashy effects Or Vicky the Viking, or Maya the Honey Bee, which are also all, by definition, anime = animated cartoons from Japan.

So I think if we talk about very colorful and flashy effects here, it might be better - if just for the sake of precision - to call it exactly that. Because anime, or cartoons as a whole, include many vastly different visual styles (the only thing they have in common, really, is that they're drawn instead of having real people as actors playing the roles).

Agreed. I say anime because I’m referring to extreme examples of intense bright lights that are more commonly found in anime from my personal experiences.

But yes, anime/cartoons do come with several different art styles.

Bguk · March 18

I like cartoons, not because of how loud and flashy they are, I just like them. Loud noises and bright lights can be painful and unpleasant to some, which I understand, yet I do like how ESO keeps bringing these characteristics into more and more areas of the game to hopefully bring new players in or keep the lights on. I do like how ESO has in the works a way to lessen those bright lights and flashes for those who find them disruptive/painful/etc.

SilverBride · March 18

In my opinion anything that needs a way to counter it's effects should not keep being added to the game, especially to fundamental things such as skills. Why keep adding things that are causing so much distress?

Bguk · March 18

SilverBride wrote: »

In my opinion anything that needs a way to counter it's effects should not keep being added to the game, especially to fundamental things such as skills. Why keep adding things that are causing so much distress?

To some, not all. This is an MMO not a single player game. There are many people with differing opinions. Some people like the updates, some people don't like the updates. They are planning on introducing a way to lessen the flashy things you do not like.

Your initial question was why, which people have answered, yet you want an answer from ZOS. So why not just bump the thread with an ask to ZOS?

My point in an earlier post stands, there are some that want to complain until they get what they want, like Veruca.

And the circle continues.

whitecrow · March 18

That elephant looks kind of nice as a creature in general, but I wouldn't want to see people riding them around town. I'm thankful that I almost never see the mammoth mounts.

SilverBride · March 18

Bguk wrote: »

This is an MMO not a single player game.

As such all players need to be considered before making changes that could be as disruptive as these effects have been. Especially when they are drastic changes from the way the game was at the start.