Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

You have an extremely condescending attitude toward the players who object to the end of Daily Login Rewards and Daily Endeavors. People say they do not want those systems to go away, and your response is, "Well, if THAT is all you're logging in for, why are you even playing the game?" Who among those players said that obtaining those rewards was the only reason they were logging in? The rewards were an incentive to log in every day, not their only reason to log in, period.

You and a lot of the other naysayers keep emphasizing the "useless" items included in the Daily Login Rewards, but there were a lot of items I found useful, as well. I picked up a lot of materials useful for crafting and improving gear. Furthermore, things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

Receiving that stuff for simply logging in left me with more time to focus on actual gameplay, rather than taking extra steps to acquire those supplies in-game. Now, I will have to engage in more resource grinding to make up the difference - which means I will actually be playing the game LESS not MORE.
[edited to remove quote]

It's not being condenscending. Either you've overlooked other posts I've made or are just ignoring when I've said I sincerely don't get it. And also the fact that I'm saying "if the only reason you were logging on was to get stuff you aren't even staying in-game long enough to use in the first place then what's the point", because...what's the point? I've asked a couple times now why getting yet another 25 Tripots or random few pieces of gold temper mats is somehow more of an incentive to log in for a few seconds, rather than actually logging on to play. And if people aren't staying on long enough to use the things they're logging in for...again, what's the point?

Also no, you won't be having to take extra steps. You can still earn these things, for free, you just need to play the game. Which you'd need to do in order to use the stuff to begin with. Like genuinely, for example your say using the Riding Upgrades. You have to log in and play the game for those to be useful, right? If you aren't using your Mount at all, then no amount of free upgrades makes them useful.

Weekly Challenges are basically the new Weekly Endeavors, except you have up to twelve weeks to finish the tasks, as they roll over each week. And every week you get five rerolls, so if you don't like whatever Challenges you get (aka if they don't align with what you like doing, or aren't something that you'd get passively while doing stuff you like), you can reroll until you get something you like or can easily do in the background.

People are acting like they're going to be needing to grind to get stuff from the free Tome like they're working towards Godslayer or something. It's just a better version of Endeavors, one where you have more time to complete the tasks and can try multiple times every week to get tasks that align with your playstyle.

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

I think that wait and see is our best bet. They have incentive to really make the pass have value for money and the first couple have a decent free tier. I keep saying that their best bet is to try and imitate fallout 76. Concerns over rewards this season aside, out of 24 seasons they've had so many amazing ones. That's free and paid. But regardless of if you like the rewards, it's been generous, easy to read and understand, bright and transparent.

As for all of this as a way to get rid of fomo, I keep hearing people say this. You believe it just cause Zos told you they didn't want fomo anymore? The thing that makes them big money? With chapters gone the way of the dodo, tomes is where they make that money back. If you think they won't make you fear missing out on amazing cosmetics, you must not pay attention. Cosmetics is the number 1 driver around here. Fashion scrolls, and housing are the true end game. I say this as a hard mode trials and dungeons guy. Most of the people I raid with care very much about looking good doing it and having cool houses. We know this first pass will have a mount that changes based on time of day. First of it's kind. Big draw. There's no promises at all it will ever be available in the bazzar. More likely, they go the route of 76. Selling previous season bundles in the shop. So let's not praise their altruism or anti fomo mouth words just yet. But I do advocate giving it a fair shot 100%
[edited to remove quote]

All future content is being made free. They're bringing the Gold Coast Bazaar, which is how they're going to cycle a number of things back into availability, including exclusive things like the Dragon's Treasure Trove. There are other systems coming like the Sage's Vault that could be any number of things, including more ways of getting Cosmetics. There are more QoL things coming through the year, any number of which could be more ways of getting Tome Points, Trade Bars, Seals, and earning things for free. You said yourself you think wait and see is the best bet, but then you imply they're going to drive people into the very thing they've so far introduced changes to combat.

Martiandawn wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

they are reducing the time needed to research traits and train mounts, so you won't need those things as much

Yes, that's called "misdirection," the same trick stage magicians use to keep your eyes elsewhere as they execute a trick. You are letting ZOS fool you into thinking you have won a great victory, forcing the big, evil corporation to submit to the will of players, when what they are actually doing is rolling out a new system designed to squeeze more money out of players.

And you act like you have insider information of ZOS secretly planning to make everything in the game hundreds of dollars or something.

Friend, they are making ALL MAJOR CONTENT RELEASES FREE. You realize they need to make up that revenue somehow, right? ESO+ subs aren't going to cut it. And someone else pointed out the math, where if you get the 15 dollar pass that's only 45 dollars for the year, as opposed to the 50 for the standard Chapter price, and the 80 or so for the premium version. This on top of the 15 for ESO+ every month because people were already subbing each month during the year. And if people opt for the 30 dollar Tome, that's 90 for the year, which is only a little more than the premium version of a Chapter.

So in reality, you can actually pay LESS money for the paid Tome than you'd have spent on the standard Chapter going forward. And the best thing is if there's something any given Season you don't particularly care for, you don't have the spend the money to get it, whereas for Chapters and other DLC you have to pay the full price regardless of what you would or wouldn't be using or doing.

shadoza wrote: »

@Arunei
"I've asked a couple times now why getting yet another 25 Tripots or random few pieces of gold temper mats is somehow more of an incentive to log in for a few seconds, rather than actually logging on to play."

For myself: the daily rewards were the incentive to get into the game. The Endeavors were the reason to stay and play for a time.
Sometimes after the endeavors, I stayed in and played until something or someone made the game not fun again.
It is not the reward that matters but rather the idea that there IS an incentive. Some of the items were worth getting so one might keep logging in to get those items that are hard for them to gain otherwise.

"Also no, you won't be having to take extra steps. You can still earn these things, for free, you just need to play the game. Which you'd need to do in order to use the stuff to begin with. "

Yes, there will be extra steps. There are still grinding challenges that pay little unless a player groups. Group challenges pay many times more than solo challenges. That kind of bias makes me feel like not playing at all. So grindy, depressing, and not fun . . . I need that incentive or I will just look at the game, remember the depressing bias and toxicity and decide to play something else.

I personally think not making players log in everyday to get log in reward and grind envadors is not depresing and toxic unlike system that we had. Daily logins and endeavours were FOMO systems that may be "simple" in nature but they condotion players to "grind" everyday. Just becase grind took 5 mintues every day does not mean it is not a grind. It ends up being 2.5h grind each month in total. Plus you had to add the fact that you had to be available to do so.
For example current Golden Pursuit takes like 1h and you can do it as much you want in time window, so you can still log in once a day for 5 mintues to do a task or actually play more. And you can expect this being basis of Tomes.

I think it is better for health of the game and players to get rid such FOMO system. You have to understand that things like this may cause anxiety, these are literally psychological marketing/selling practices.

Sometimes we have to understand that things we not agree with are not autmatically "toxic, biased and depressing". There is still incentive for you to play but you refuse to accept that.

This is net positive change for a game. Huge props to ZoS and all of the team!

shadoza wrote: »

@Arunei
"I've asked a couple times now why getting yet another 25 Tripots or random few pieces of gold temper mats is somehow more of an incentive to log in for a few seconds, rather than actually logging on to play."

For myself: the daily rewards were the incentive to get into the game. The Endeavors were the reason to stay and play for a time.
Sometimes after the endeavors, I stayed in and played until something or someone made the game not fun again.
It is not the reward that matters but rather the idea that there IS an incentive. Some of the items were worth getting so one might keep logging in to get those items that are hard for them to gain otherwise.

"Also no, you won't be having to take extra steps. You can still earn these things, for free, you just need to play the game. Which you'd need to do in order to use the stuff to begin with. "

Yes, there will be extra steps. There are still grinding challenges that pay little unless a player groups. Group challenges pay many times more than solo challenges. That kind of bias makes me feel like not playing at all. So grindy, depressing, and not fun . . . I need that incentive or I will just look at the game, remember the depressing bias and toxicity and decide to play something else.

Regarding daily login, what I'm having trouble understanding is how X or Y item is more of an incentive to log in than playing the game itself is. Genuinely, what about 2 few exp scrolls, a couple of gold tempers, a handful of Poisons/Potions, and so on make THOSE more of an incentive to get on than whatever things you like to do in the game itself? I can't get why random items are more motivation to log in than playing the game itself would be.

You still have incentive to log in and do things. It's just that it's not an instant reward any more, it's something you have to put a bit of effort into. You will still essentially be doing Endeavors, just not daily ones (unless you're like me and there are times when the Weekly is something fairly easy to do so you just grind it out in a day lol). Endeavors, in all technicality and for all intents and purposes, are still in the game, they've just been renamed to Weekly/Seasonal Challenges. So you can still work on them as the reason to stay and keep playing.

These aren't extra steps. They're literally the same thing you're already doing. You say that Endeavors were something that kept you playing, but then say the Challenges are going to be grinding...when essentially the two are the same thing. Tasks that you can complete to earn currency for rewwards.

Also...I'm VERY confused on what you're talking about in regards to "group challenges" vs "solo challenges" because those...don't exist. There will likely be tasks that are group related, like some GP tasks are (the ones where you have to do something like 'Complete X Endeavors while grouped'), but if those are Weekly Challenges...just reroll it? You can reroll Weekly Challenges up to five times a week and at the start of a new week your rerolls refresh.

And another thing I keep trying to stress to people is this system isn't even OUT yet. Why get oneself so upset and riled up over something, expecting the absolute worst, when the actual feature isn't even in the live game at the moment? People are getting themselves unduly bothered instead of simply reserving judgement until things hit live. Yes, people have every right to be wary, to have doubts and concerns. That's valid. But there's a difference between having low expectations and outright telling yourself things are going to be miserable and there's no reason to hope for anything better.

Arunei wrote: »

Friend, they are making ALL MAJOR CONTENT RELEASES FREE. You realize they need to make up that revenue somehow, right? ESO+ subs aren't going to cut it. And someone else pointed out the math, where if you get the 15 dollar pass that's only 45 dollars for the year, as opposed to the 50 for the standard Chapter price, and the 80 or so for the premium version. This on top of the 15 for ESO+ every month because people were already subbing each month during the year. And if people opt for the 30 dollar Tome, that's 90 for the year, which is only a little more than the premium version of a Chapter.

The only thing I'm wondering about is how much new playable content there will be, if it's interesting and good quality, and how long it will keep me entertained. I'll definitely try out the Night Market and have a look at all new events. The Sages Vault, too, of course, what ever it might be. Hearing that the story content in summer is supposed to have the normal length of a zone main story was a bit of a relief, but then again - what counts as a zone main story now? Solstice as a whole had 11 main story quests but only about 5,5 hours playtime for them. One quest or 30 minutes more with the epilogue. But even more important to me is: How will the writing quality be? Will it increase because people can focus more on that questline now instead of having to write two dozens of side quests on top of that? Or will it get chaotic and inconsistent with 8 different people or so working on the same questline? We'll see, I guess.

Arunei wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

You have an extremely condescending attitude toward the players who object to the end of Daily Login Rewards and Daily Endeavors. People say they do not want those systems to go away, and your response is, "Well, if THAT is all you're logging in for, why are you even playing the game?" Who among those players said that obtaining those rewards was the only reason they were logging in? The rewards were an incentive to log in every day, not their only reason to log in, period.

You and a lot of the other naysayers keep emphasizing the "useless" items included in the Daily Login Rewards, but there were a lot of items I found useful, as well. I picked up a lot of materials useful for crafting and improving gear. Furthermore, things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

Receiving that stuff for simply logging in left me with more time to focus on actual gameplay, rather than taking extra steps to acquire those supplies in-game. Now, I will have to engage in more resource grinding to make up the difference - which means I will actually be playing the game LESS not MORE.
[edited to remove quote]

It's not being condenscending. Either you've overlooked other posts I've made or are just ignoring when I've said I sincerely don't get it. And also the fact that I'm saying "if the only reason you were logging on was to get stuff you aren't even staying in-game long enough to use in the first place then what's the point", because...what's the point? I've asked a couple times now why getting yet another 25 Tripots or random few pieces of gold temper mats is somehow more of an incentive to log in for a few seconds, rather than actually logging on to play. And if people aren't staying on long enough to use the things they're logging in for...again, what's the point?

Also no, you won't be having to take extra steps. You can still earn these things, for free, you just need to play the game. Which you'd need to do in order to use the stuff to begin with. Like genuinely, for example your say using the Riding Upgrades. You have to log in and play the game for those to be useful, right? If you aren't using your Mount at all, then no amount of free upgrades makes them useful.

Weekly Challenges are basically the new Weekly Endeavors, except you have up to twelve weeks to finish the tasks, as they roll over each week. And every week you get five rerolls, so if you don't like whatever Challenges you get (aka if they don't align with what you like doing, or aren't something that you'd get passively while doing stuff you like), you can reroll until you get something you like or can easily do in the background.

People are acting like they're going to be needing to grind to get stuff from the free Tome like they're working towards Godslayer or something. It's just a better version of Endeavors, one where you have more time to complete the tasks and can try multiple times every week to get tasks that align with your playstyle.

twisttop138 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

I think that wait and see is our best bet. They have incentive to really make the pass have value for money and the first couple have a decent free tier. I keep saying that their best bet is to try and imitate fallout 76. Concerns over rewards this season aside, out of 24 seasons they've had so many amazing ones. That's free and paid. But regardless of if you like the rewards, it's been generous, easy to read and understand, bright and transparent.

As for all of this as a way to get rid of fomo, I keep hearing people say this. You believe it just cause Zos told you they didn't want fomo anymore? The thing that makes them big money? With chapters gone the way of the dodo, tomes is where they make that money back. If you think they won't make you fear missing out on amazing cosmetics, you must not pay attention. Cosmetics is the number 1 driver around here. Fashion scrolls, and housing are the true end game. I say this as a hard mode trials and dungeons guy. Most of the people I raid with care very much about looking good doing it and having cool houses. We know this first pass will have a mount that changes based on time of day. First of it's kind. Big draw. There's no promises at all it will ever be available in the bazzar. More likely, they go the route of 76. Selling previous season bundles in the shop. So let's not praise their altruism or anti fomo mouth words just yet. But I do advocate giving it a fair shot 100%
[edited to remove quote]

All future content is being made free. They're bringing the Gold Coast Bazaar, which is how they're going to cycle a number of things back into availability, including exclusive things like the Dragon's Treasure Trove. There are other systems coming like the Sage's Vault that could be any number of things, including more ways of getting Cosmetics. There are more QoL things coming through the year, any number of which could be more ways of getting Tome Points, Trade Bars, Seals, and earning things for free. You said yourself you think wait and see is the best bet, but then you imply they're going to drive people into the very thing they've so far introduced changes to combat.

Martiandawn wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

they are reducing the time needed to research traits and train mounts, so you won't need those things as much

Yes, that's called "misdirection," the same trick stage magicians use to keep your eyes elsewhere as they execute a trick. You are letting ZOS fool you into thinking you have won a great victory, forcing the big, evil corporation to submit to the will of players, when what they are actually doing is rolling out a new system designed to squeeze more money out of players.

And you act like you have insider information of ZOS secretly planning to make everything in the game hundreds of dollars or something.

Friend, they are making ALL MAJOR CONTENT RELEASES FREE. You realize they need to make up that revenue somehow, right? ESO+ subs aren't going to cut it. And someone else pointed out the math, where if you get the 15 dollar pass that's only 45 dollars for the year, as opposed to the 50 for the standard Chapter price, and the 80 or so for the premium version. This on top of the 15 for ESO+ every month because people were already subbing each month during the year. And if people opt for the 30 dollar Tome, that's 90 for the year, which is only a little more than the premium version of a Chapter.

So in reality, you can actually pay LESS money for the paid Tome than you'd have spent on the standard Chapter going forward. And the best thing is if there's something any given Season you don't particularly care for, you don't have the spend the money to get it, whereas for Chapters and other DLC you have to pay the full price regardless of what you would or wouldn't be using or doing.

I believe very much in the wait and see approach. I will be trying the paid tomes this year for each season to give it a real fair shake. I'm just trying to tell you that there is no altruism in it. And that they will use the fear of missing out on cool stuff in the tomes to get people to buy the paid tier. That's just the way it is. That's a battle pass business model. I don't think it's good or bad, it just is. I think, and I've said this many times, if they can dial in the battle pass to be good for all players regardless of paid or free, it will be a success. Fear of missing the good stuff in the paid tomes will drive people to spend money. In turn Zos makes up the lost chapter revenue. I don't see there being anything to debate here. You alone have said they're likely to put previous tome items in the bazzar. My argument is that is unlikely. What I'm saying has nothing to do with this years quality of life stuff or past rewards like the dragon trove in the bazzar. That is separate from tomes. Tomes is the new revenue driver, period. They will do what they can to get us to buy it. That's ok. It's a business.

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

A relatively small but very vocal minority of the player base has been complaining about Daily Login Rewards and the Daily Endeavors for a while now. Apparently. I wasn't aware of those complaints. I don't pay much attention to such things; I just log in to play the game and have fun. I am certain that is true for a majority of the player base.

My personal preference is that the developers spend their time working on new zones, new story quests, and new gameplay mechanics rather than invest precious development time catering to the demands of a small number of players who were unhappy with the free stuff they were receiving.

Ultimately, developing new game content is far more conducive to the long-term health of ESO.

THIS... and not just group dungeons. I miss the solo content... I was in two guilds that did Trials on Thurs at 10 pm. Sorry...I work for a living and cant stay up until midnight or 1 am on a work night when I get up at 5am to fight traffic and drive 1- 1 1/2 hrs to work everyday.

With no solo content being added in the last what... few YEARS... Im out. Beta tester and Day 1 sub canceled. There are MANY other great solo games out there. Not here to announce my departure as this isnt an airport..I know that. But ESO now ignores their casual/solo players, there just isnt anything left to keep me sticking around.

ADarklore wrote: »

Korinth wrote: »

THIS... and not just group dungeons. I miss the solo content... I was in two guilds that did Trials on Thurs at 10 pm. Sorry...I work for a living and cant stay up until midnight or 1 am on a work night when I get up at 5am to fight traffic and drive 1- 1 1/2 hrs to work everyday.

With no solo content being added in the last what... few YEARS... Im out. Beta tester and Day 1 sub canceled. There are MANY other great solo games out there. Not here to announce my departure as this isnt an airport..I know that. But ESO now ignores their casual/solo players, there just isnt anything left to keep me sticking around.

As a solo player, I'm wondering what solo content you are talking about? There is plenty a solo player can do, and they are releasing more content this summer that can be done solo, and they are working on giving story mode to dungeons to make it easier for solo players. Considering the new executive producer of ESO, Susan Kath, is an admitted 'solo' player, I'd say we have a reason to be optimistic about the future as solo players. You are also forgetting that the new leadership team just took over the end of 2025, and they're already making huge changes- but those changes take TIME and patience.

While I wouldn't say I'm a solo player, the opposite in fact, I still enjoy solo content very much. The game is packed full of 100s of hours of quests and other solo adventures though I understand that it's not new. The arenas are also aging. I assume that's what he meant. My sincere hope is to see more stuff like that. Expanded IA, with a save feature story lines and other things. We're all feeling the pinch here. There's not as much content this year for anyone let alone solo players. My hope is this years trial will be a return to form after the reskined OC, which I didn't mind but the content pass stuff really hurt the amount of people that were able to actually do OC.

I would say also the night market will be a mainly solo venture unless you wanna do the big bosses but we'll see tons of LFG for those. These dynamic events, the Sheogorath chapter length story, thieves guild quest line, rumors, favors, the new system, these are all solo story things happening this year and some of them sound really awesome. They also haven't expanded on what some of the stuff this year even is so we'll have to be patient. On the other hand, group players get a trial and some easy bosses with no vet or hard mode. Thats it. So I don't really see the complaint here.

Ive been critical of Zos, sometimes very critical lately. 2025 and some of the decisions since have not helped. But we found out that a garbage director was taking the money and developers from an awesome mmo that could print money (2 billion so far) to do a secret project that got canned in the end and almost killed ESO. This new team needs time to steer the boat away from the shoals. I've been very impressed so far, and while I will miss what came before in terms of content, I feel I owe them and ESO a chance.

twisttop138 wrote: »

So funny. With all the complaints about losing log in rewards, I get a discord notification. Zos has been planning on giving us a package full of all the log in rewards, at once. That should hold you over till the pass.

Not all at once, but yeah still giving them out. The GP spreads them out a bit. But they did toss out the U49gift redeem code for the crown store which drops a pile of stuff too (outfit change tokens and transmutes as well, but not pictured).

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

So funny. With all the complaints about losing log in rewards, I get a discord notification. Zos has been planning on giving us a package full of all the log in rewards, at once. That should hold you over till the pass.

Not all at once, but yeah still giving them out. The GP spreads them out a bit. But they did toss out the U49gift redeem code for the crown store which drops a pile of stuff too (one outfit change token as well, but not pictured).

Oh I don't mean the GP. There's an article out, I'm on my phone so I can't link it. But it has a code update49gift that will get you a ton of stuff from the daily rewards.

Edit to add it's on the ESO website but I got the article in the discord bot. It's an official Zos thing.

Yes... that screenshot you just quoted shows it.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

So funny. With all the complaints about losing log in rewards, I get a discord notification. Zos has been planning on giving us a package full of all the log in rewards, at once. That should hold you over till the pass.

Not all at once, but yeah still giving them out. The GP spreads them out a bit. But they did toss out the U49gift redeem code for the crown store which drops a pile of stuff too (one outfit change token as well, but not pictured).

Oh I don't mean the GP. There's an article out, I'm on my phone so I can't link it. But it has a code update49gift that will get you a ton of stuff from the daily rewards.

Edit to add it's on the ESO website but I got the article in the discord bot. It's an official Zos thing.

Yes... that screenshot you just quoted shows it.

Sorry! I can't make the screenshots on my phone bigger, so they're really hard for me to see. Weirdly it's only the forums that does that on my phone. I thought you mentioned the golden pursuit, and was showing that, my bad.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

So funny. With all the complaints about losing log in rewards, I get a discord notification. Zos has been planning on giving us a package full of all the log in rewards, at once. That should hold you over till the pass.

Not all at once, but yeah still giving them out. The GP spreads them out a bit. But they did toss out the U49gift redeem code for the crown store which drops a pile of stuff too (one outfit change token as well, but not pictured).

Oh I don't mean the GP. There's an article out, I'm on my phone so I can't link it. But it has a code update49gift that will get you a ton of stuff from the daily rewards.

Edit to add it's on the ESO website but I got the article in the discord bot. It's an official Zos thing.

Yes... that screenshot you just quoted shows it.

Sorry! I can't make the screenshots on my phone bigger, so they're really hard for me to see. Weirdly it's only the forums that does that on my phone. I thought you mentioned the golden pursuit, and was showing that, my bad.

Yeah, the mobile style template of the forums is designed with forced scaling which prevents zooming. Your browser may/should have a setting to override that behavior. In Chrome it's Settings -> Accessibility -> Force Enable Zoom.

I'm using chrome so I'll check that out. Much appreciated.
Edit to add. Your exact directions worked. Thank you.

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

So funny. With all the complaints about losing log in rewards, I get a discord notification. Zos has been planning on giving us a package full of all the log in rewards, at once. That should hold you over till the pass.

Not all at once, but yeah still giving them out. The GP spreads them out a bit. But they did toss out the U49gift redeem code for the crown store which drops a pile of stuff too (one outfit change token as well, but not pictured).

Oh I don't mean the GP. There's an article out, I'm on my phone so I can't link it. But it has a code update49gift that will get you a ton of stuff from the daily rewards.

Edit to add it's on the ESO website but I got the article in the discord bot. It's an official Zos thing.

Yes... that screenshot you just quoted shows it.

Sorry! I can't make the screenshots on my phone bigger, so they're really hard for me to see. Weirdly it's only the forums that does that on my phone. I thought you mentioned the golden pursuit, and was showing that, my bad.

Yeah, the mobile style template of the forums is designed with forced scaling which prevents zooming. Your browser may/should have a setting to override that behavior. In Chrome it's Settings -> Accessibility -> Force Enable Zoom.

I'm using chrome so I'll check that out. Much appreciated.
Edit to add. Your exact directions worked. Thank you.

If you're using Chrome, you can also long press on an image and select Preview Image. Which will open a preview pane allowing you to zoom in on the original image which can be better if the browser scaled down the resolution within the page to fit within a smaller display.

But now I'm going wildly off topic. So I digress. 😎

THERE IS NO REASON TO START THE GAME IN THE MORNING NOW


I'm sorry to say this BUT I for one enjoyed the daily logins and the 3 endeavors -- first thing getting up I make a cappuccino fire up the game and logon to check in for the daily login and check the daily endeavors --- as I am having my cappuccino, I do my writs grab a few daily quests and do my endeavors and farming as I do my 3 daily quests that I start the day with -- by time my cappuccino done my endeavors are almost always done as well as farming and a couple daily quests

Now I get up and I don't even bother to power up the game I go do other things -- sometimes now I don't get on till late whereas before I put in 4 or 5 hours first thing in the morning and then do other things off and on around the house as I play NOW is NO reason to start the game first thing

Sorry but think this is a bad move as I have noticed my wifie no longer jumps right into the game with her coffee -- now she is on Facebook surfing

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm not sure why people think that because they log-in daily, that their signing in somehow benefits ESO. Unless you cancel your subscription because you're not getting daily rewards, that's one thing, but just because you log in, grab freebees, and do solo content, that is not in any way 'financially' supporting the game. It's amazing that some people think because they simply log in, that it's "supporting" the game, it's not. Unless you are continuously financially supporting the game, or providing extra support in group content or participating in PVP to add more players for group activities, your mere presence doing solo activities is not 'supporting' the game.

It is though. First let's be clear, I don't care about the removing of daily log in rewards. I think people will be fine picking what they want from the pass. People that liked doing endeavors will now have daily and weekly chores that reward more than in the past with the added benefit of still getting seals. That said, there are more things a game needs to show beyond money. Log ons boost player numbers, and things like daily endeavor chores show game engagement. Daddy MS wants all that sweet sweet monies but I'm sure they also wanna see good month on month player counts and content engagement. Regardless of if it benefits us or not, Zos is a corporate entity that exists for no other reason than to make profit for shareholders. That does not mean the devs don't love the game, it doesn't mean they don't wanna make it fun for us. But the things they do all serve an end goal of making the company money. Getting more players to log in, more players engaged in the content likely leads to more sales. It is what it is, they can love the game and still not do things for altruistic reasons.