spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

When they first introduced the daily and weekly endeavors, while they were talking about them but before they were actually in game, I remember both a lot of people expressing trepidations about them and the system in general, but also a lot of people were also looking forward to giving the system a try. I think in the end most people got on board with endeavors. Maybe that’s how it will be with Tomes once we get a chance to try it out on live for a while.

We didn't have to pay to get endeavors.

Is anyone suggesting we'll be paying for them after the change?

No, you’ll really be paying to get extra currency.

What I find misleading about the promotion is that they’re acting like it’s just cosmetics. It’s not. It’s about currencies as a monetization mechanism.

Specifically a new currency that can’t be purchased with crowns… tome upgrades and ESO+ are the main ways of obtaining more. This currency is replacing event tickets. That is where we are all slowly being funneled into.

They are highlighting the cosmetics to downplay the paid option. In reality, it’s about convincing you to pay to supercharge your former dailies/endeavors so as to not miss out on time limited content.

Event tickets are not being replaced by the ESO+ premium tokens. They're being replaced with Trade Bars. Trade Bars can be earned in-game.

Arunei wrote: »

They can't downplay anything with "lol cosmetics" because literally everything Tome Points and Trade Bars and Seals can buy IS Cosmetics. How can the only thing all these currencies are for be used to downplay the currencies?

AzuraFan wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

They can't downplay anything with "lol cosmetics" because literally everything Tome Points and Trade Bars and Seals can buy IS Cosmetics. How can the only thing all these currencies are for be used to downplay the currencies?

I haven't been on PTS, but is that true? I thought we'd be able to buy some stuff we used to get as login rewards, like crown meals, some rare materials, etc. I'm hoping it'll also sell antiquities leads, if not at the beginning, then eventually, because the two vendors we have, selling only 2 leads each a week, aren't enough, and it would be nice to be able to buy with currencies other than IA and IC. That aside, I'm hoping the bazaar will sell all types of items.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

The Trade Bars is a good change because it's what Tickets SHOULD have been, aka unlimited and not something overly priced in the CS. They're literally removing the need to go into the CS to drop money on Tickets if you miss a few days of an event, they're making it so you no longer lose Tickets if you're at say 11/12 and earn two or three because you forgot to check or buy something first.

Interesting take on this because I view it the opposite.

In the past, if you missed a day or two of an event and wanted to buy something (but didn’t have enough tickets) you could buy them for 250 crowns. If you have an ESO+ sub you likely had the few crowns required for those occasions.

In the new system if you want more battle pass currency, they sell you into a $15 or $30 upgrade for your season pass. This is on top of your $15 ESO+ which gives a modest boost to exclusive currency as well.

The old system was more forgiving and less expensive as you only paid money when in a pinch. The new model seems designed to get you into that double subscription from the beginning to maximize battle pass currency… so you won’t miss out on seasonal FOMO offerings.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

Emeratis wrote: »

You can buy more than just cosmetics at the Gold Coast Bazaar. Here are the categories we saw during pts testing:


If I recall the consumables had the crown store consumables there for purchase.

Deserrick wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

It's not premature, it's pattern recognition; the rewards from the daily login rewards and the daily endeavors were both reduced.

Arunei wrote: »

And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way.

Precisely. They used to be better, but were reduced.

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

Arunei wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Trade Bars were designed to be more forgiving than event tickets. The complaints about the tickets is one of the things they're meant to address.

You're correct about fomo driving sales of the pass though.

Maybe more forgiving with time, but not money.

Event tickets seemed to be about motivating people to participate in free events for rewards. You could buy extra if needed.

Trade bars seem to be all about what players can buy (ESO+, Battle Passes, etc.) with IRL money to increase the amount they receive at all times. It isn’t just in a pinch but the new standard due to how the new battle pass offerings will be priced.

It feels gross to me more than a QoL improvement or anything.

You'll earn the trade bars from events and other PvE sources. So, the events will operate as they always have.

The premium unlocks are moreso about bars being able to be used to get fomo bonus items.

[snip]

I feel like you might be overlooking the fact that I've pointed out a few times now; people paying money for more benefits is nothing new. We got Seals so people could get things from Crates without buying them, but if you spent more money to buy the Crates directly, you'd get more. If you paid for ESO+, you got more. If you paid for the premium version of DLCs in the past, you got more. Paying to get more is nothing new, and doom and glooming about how this is going to "force" people into paying more if they wanted certain cosmetics (because you know, that hasn't already been the case with the CS in general and Crown Crates) or saying they're going to reduce the free tier over time so people HAVE to pay is premature since the system isn't even out yet.

And again, the Bazaar is another thing being entirely ignored. Things previously only available by pre-order or if you were around when some event was taking place are being offered in the Bazaar, and things will cycle out every so often. Instead of a house being in the CS for a whole week and then vanishing for potentially years before coming back, it can come to the Bazaar and be available for weeks, maybe even months. Considering the WHOLE POINT of them making future content completely free and introducing the Bazaar is to help remove FOMO, I genuinely cannot see them locking things permanently behind the paid tiers of Tome. Eventually that stuff will more than likely be cycled into the Bazaar, maybe in a year's time, maybe longer, who knows.

Martiandawn wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

If players were saying the Daily Login Rewards were mostly trash, the customer-friendly response would be, "We're sorry; we will offer better rewards," not, "Okay, we will eliminate that system and replace it with one in which you ultimately have to spend real money to qualify for the best rewards."

I think you entirely misread my post. I didnt say anything about people thinking the login rewards were trash, in fact it was the opposite. A lot of people are saying they have no incentive to log on now, but if your incentive to log on was just to get your nth stack of Tripots or 250 TV or your one millionth exp scroll, rather than to play the game...that just doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't even playing the game then what's the point of getting these items anyway? How can getting 1k AP be worth logging on for, but actually doing things in-game where you would SPEND those AP isn't?

Also we have NO idea what the live version of Tomes will look like, not until next month, so saying that the rewards have been moved to only the paid versions isn't the best take right now. And it's not like the "best" rewards for the last...well, long time...of login rewards have been "the best" either way. I doubt they'll be making people pay for the higher tiers of Tome just to be able to get Mount Scrolls, Tripots, Crown Poisons, and gold temper mats.

twisttop138 wrote: »

I always enjoy reading your well thought out comments. I do, however, have to wonder if you're familiar with how a battle pass works. I don't say that as an insult, I've seen repeatedly on the forums lately people asking what that is. Every day and week there will be a list of busy work chores to earn a currency and levels in a pass. So for people that enjoy that sort of thing it will still be available in spades. There will still be plenty of: kill 10 flame atronochs. Run 3 random dungeons. Harvest 30 crafting nodes. Pick 5 locks. It's just now you can choose to pay for the pleasure if you want good stuff. I had concerns that ZOS will primarily focus on battle pass since it's the new revenue source and we'll see a decrease in things earnable in game, but we shall see. I'm willing to try it out.

Whizzinglane wrote: »

We had a choice. We do not need to buy the loot boxes. We could obtain "free" bites: vampire or werewolf from players within the game (although both were free at the onset of the game).

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

they are reducing the time needed to research traits and train mounts, so you won't need those things as much

Martiandawn wrote: »

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

things like riding upgrades, experience boosters, and instant research scrolls allowed me to quickly bring new characters up to speed so I could experiment with new classes and game mechanics.

they are reducing the time needed to research traits and train mounts, so you won't need those things as much

Yes, that's called "misdirection," the same trick stage magicians use to keep your eyes elsewhere as they execute a trick. You are letting ZOS fool you into thinking you have won a great victory, forcing the big, evil corporation to submit to the will of players, when what they are actually doing is rolling out a new system designed to squeeze more money out of players.