Why is everything becoming more cartoony?

SilverBride · March 15

Why is everything becoming more cartoony? What is the reason for this trend? It didn't used to be like this. ESO used to be the most realistic game I had ever played and I loved that about it. It was so much more immersive when we were represented as realistic players in a realistic world.

Now everything is bright and loud and flashy. Why?

Cartoons are bright and loud and flashy for a reason. They are created for children who have short attention spans. They need constant motion and loud noises and bright lights to keep them watching. But children aren't the target audience of this game made for adults. So why is it being presented this way?

Something caused this trend to happen and I'd like some insight into why. Because it is destroying the experience for many of us.

Lugaldu · March 15

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Syldras · March 15

SilverBride wrote: »

Cartoons are bright and loud and flashy for a reason. They are created for children who have short attention spans. They need constant motion and loud noises and bright lights to keep them watching.

Replace "children" with "people", and I think we might have the reason, sadly.

SilverBride · March 15

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

Unusual doesn't mean cartoony. There are a lot of new armor and weapon style possibilities that could look great without being over the top. Stop putting the ugly flaps and tassets on chest pieces. Now that we can hide pieces create some longer tunic like chest pieces so pants can be left hidden to show off tattoos and skins.

Create mounts that look strong and powerful instead of over the top. How many real horses or wolves explode in bright flashes of light when mounting them? That doesn't make them unusual or new. It makes them a cartoon.

Create truly new and unusual things.

Gabriel_H · March 15

You say cartoony, I say anime.

Orbital78 · March 15

At least it isn't WoW level toon town graphics. Idk what you mean though.

SilverBride · March 15

Anime is worse than cartoony, but neither is right for this game.

WuffyCerulei · March 15

What do you mean “more cartoony”? I’ve been seeing the newer models for armor, mounts, and NPC monsters, and they all have way more realistic detail to them. If you things like skill effects and whatnot, some of them are a bit too flashy and bright, but that isn’t cartoony. That’s just too much in the bright-and-flashy department. They’re just doing more with VFX and SFX. GW2’s had that sort of stuff for a while now.

Dojohoda · March 15

Lugaldu wrote: »

Well, if everything's already been done and you've seen it all, then you can only attract attention with the most unusual things... I guess.

True, Tamriel's first riding lawnmower generated a lot of attention.

Frayton · March 15

Probably because it's what ESO's successful competition is doing. I don't like childish cartoony looking games either. It's why I can't play WoW.

SilverBride · March 15

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

What do you mean “more cartoony”? I’ve been seeing the newer models for armor, mounts, and NPC monsters, and they all have way more realistic detail to them. If you things like skill effects and whatnot, some of them are a bit too flashy and bright, but that isn’t cartoony. That’s just too much in the bright-and-flashy department. They’re just doing more with VFX and SFX. GW2’s had that sort of stuff for a while now.

Cartoons are flashy and bright. And I don't care if other games do it. I'm not playing those games. I care what this game does.

AcadianPaladin · March 15

I agree the game has become too bright and flashy. The worst are exploding mounts that obscure my screen as the rider summons them. I find myself avoiding large cities because of this and doing everything I can out in quiet areas or in my home. Undaunted Enclaves really do look like a neon cartoon show. At least give me an optional setting to shut some of it off. For example, a setting so every player I see on a mount is riding a plain brown horse that summons and unsummons with no annoying fanfare.

SilverBride · March 15

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

...a setting so every player I see on a mount is riding a plain brown horse that summons and unsummons with no annoying fanfare.

All my characters and their Companions (except Ember who rides a white cat) ride the same plain brown horse that summons and unsummons with no annoying fanfare.

LunaFlora · March 15

no idea what exactly you are referring to without pictures and names of specific things in the game.

i am guessing this is mostly about magical mounts and polymorphs, per usual.
Confused that this needs another post, especially as we are getting visual effects options soon.

SilverBride · March 15

LunaFlora wrote: »

no idea what exactly you are referring to without pictures and names of specific things in the game.

i am guessing this is mostly about magical mounts and polymorphs, per usual.
Confused that this needs another post, especially as we are getting visual effects options soon.

I am referring to mounts that explode with bright flashes of light, and recalls that explode with bright flashes of light, and now 2H weapons fill the screen with bright red and orange lights. I can't even play my DK now because of this.

They say we are getting visual effects options but what will these options be? Will they just be toned down or will we be able to remove all the exploding sounds and bright light effects?

But none of that explains WHY all the new things are cartoony in the first place.

LunaFlora · March 15

We do not know exactly how the visual effect settings will work yet.
surely zos will tell us more soon.
here was the last update about it from ZOS_Erin

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8433208#Comment_8433208
and this link is for a comment i left on one of your threads, with quotes from ZOS_Jose.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8426707#Comment_8426707

Why do we have flashy effects?
probably because zos likes it and thinks it is a good way to present magic. not very complicated i think.

And they are not all new.
Templar skills have always been bright and flashy.
Spindleclutch's spider boss flashes, Hardmode scroll flashes, and Aetherian Archive's portal flashes are all also very old.
i am glad we will be getting options for those effects, new and old.

SilverBride · March 15

LunaFlora wrote: »

Why do we have flashy effects?
probably because zos likes it and thinks it is a good way to present magic. not very complicated i think.

Players don't all like it. If they did there wouldn't be a need to give players a way to turn them off. And why does a 2H weapon need magic? It's a melee weapon. It's damage comes from swinging a strong heavy weapon, not from magic.

LunaFlora wrote: »

And they are not all new.
Templar skills have always been bright and flashy.

I play a Templar and my skills are not bright and flashy. If they were over the top, like so many are now, I wouldn't play her.

LunaFlora wrote: »

Spindleclutch's spider boss flashes, Hardmode scroll flashes, and Aetherian Archive's portal flashes are all also very old.
i am glad we will be getting options for those effects, new and old.

I am referring to player effects in this thread, not enemies. But I hope the option affects those, too.

thorwyn · March 15

Now everything is bright and loud and flashy. Why?

Because if you want to sell new stuff, the new stuff has to stand out from the old stuff. Noone will spend money on cosmetics if it's just another version of the existing ones. There are only so many interesting variations of "realism". Adding visual effects is one way to counter that problem once you#ve taken that route, it is a point of no return.
It's the same reason why new items/sets/cards/skills/classes will always outperform the existing ones: noone would buy them otherwise.

SilverBride · March 15

thorwyn wrote: »

Now everything is bright and loud and flashy. Why?

Because if you want to sell new stuff, the new stuff has to stand out from the old stuff. Noone will spend money on cosmetics if it's just another version of the existing ones. There are only so many interesting variations of "realism". Adding visual effects is one way to counter that problem once you#ve taken that route, it is a point of no return.
It's the same reason why new items/sets/cards/skills/classes will always outperform the existing ones: noone would buy them otherwise.

I don't agree that new stuff has to stand out by being over the top. I find that a deterrent rather than a draw.

I also read that the 2H weapon changes can override or mask the appearance of weapon styles. This means that custom weapon skins or styles that players have purchased or acquired are obscured by a lingering fire effect when the ability is active. This completely destroys the weapon style the player paid money for. This is not something players want to see.

Hollyniss · March 15

I enjoy flashy skills. But I do understand why others don't. Though I will say I'm not a fan of mounts with effects as I find them tacky. They should maybe have a toggle for skill effects on/off (including npc and bosses). As for mounts, maybe the option to hide other players (outside of Imperial City and Cyrodiil) that you're not grouped with. That alone would help a lot of people with immersion, lag, and clutter. Or have a toggle for that as well (mount effects on/off).

As for things being cartoony or garish...I think they're going for spectacle over substance. The writing reflects that as well...

SilverBride · March 15

Hollyniss wrote: »

I enjoy flashy skills. But I do understand why others don't. Though I will say I'm not a fan of mounts with effects as I find them tacky. They should maybe have a toggle for skill effects on/off. As for mounts, maybe the option to hide other players (outside of Imperial City and Cyrodiil) that you're not grouped with. That alone would help a lot of people with immersion, lag, and clutter.

As for things being cartoony or garish...I think they're going for spectacle over substance. The writing reflects that as well...

I can't disagree with you at all.

Syldras · March 15

thorwyn wrote: »

Because if you want to sell new stuff, the new stuff has to stand out from the old stuff. Noone will spend money on cosmetics if it's just another version of the existing ones. There are only so many interesting variations of "realism".

There are lore-appropriate creatures that have not been made mounts yet, and there are lots of lore-appropriate themes, too, that they could use for individual mount designs, without the need for exploding, eye-straining visuals.

How well such mounts would sell? Hard to say. And how it would have been if they had sold those years ago, instead of going for extremely flashy designs, might be a completely different thing, too. Lots of people who prefered a more down-to-earth design, and had a deeper interest in lore, have already left by now.

liliub17_ESO · March 15

Hollyniss wrote: »

As for things being cartoony or garish...I think they're going for spectacle over substance. The writing reflects that as well...

Agree with this, 100%.

If you dismiss the visual changes as simply trying to attract a new audience (though a quality game should do that on its merits, not on copycat flash-bang), there is the huge issue of accessibility. Fortunately I am not affected by many disorders which could be aggravated by the flash, sudden light changes, loud noises, etc. these changes have wrought. However, on Bleakrock Isle when you enter into the final cave chasing the Frozen Man, I do have to close my eyes because the sudden searing white light triggers an instant migraine. ... and that's at the very beginning of the original game.

I love color and the beautiful world created for all of the Elder Scrolls games. But holy cow, some of the more recent additions might better fit in a game such as the FF franchise or any number of the games which have deliberate "cartoon" or bright styles. (don't want to trigger mod fuss by naming names)

It does, however, make me question the game writers' decision making for including such jarring changes into a mature game with established visual styles and canon.

SilverBride · March 15

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

It does, however, make me question the game writers' decision making for including such jarring changes into a mature game with established visual styles and canon.

I feel the same, which is why I would like to hear from them WHY they are taking such an approach.

MissNoir · March 15

I am very sensitive for sudden bright flashes due to results of a head injury I got many years ago. Sadly this sensitivity gets worse by age. I used to enjoy doing crafting writs with all my 20 characters, but now I can at most manage to do them with five of them. Nowadays I do my best to stay far away from crowded areas which of course affects my gameplay. I can’t do what I want when I want anymore.

Nowadays there are mounts, pets, skill styles and recalls that are super bright and flashy. Especially now when there are many new furnishing plans dropping from the Solstice dailies I’ve been spending lots of time in Sunport. Most of that time just waiting for people that are sitting on those bright and flashy mounts to move away from quest givers so I can grab my quests or hand my quests in.

Today someone mounted up that super bright Meridian horse just where I was standing. Thought I would get a seizure. It was probably amusing for that person to show off, but I had to stop playing and lay down for a while.

I really hope that we will get toggles to minimize all those effects so I can start enjoying this game as I used to do. But I remember my disappointment when Zos introduced the “Hide followers in town” setting.

I still love this game and I still sub since my first days, but my time spent in game is much less than I would want to.

M_Volsung · March 15

I'll give up my robot horse when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

shadyjane62 · March 15

I hate all the new changes. Cartoon is the right word. Looks like WoW.

Avran_Sylt · March 15

Have you been to mardigras or a rave?

In a world where fire can be conjured from fingertips, enchantments etched into items, why isn't there more spectacle?

While I personally prefer more utilitarian/earthy kind of designs (never buying the flashy stuff), these being added into the game doesn't shock me.

But lacking them as a whole would, as it would be poor world design.

SilverBride · March 15

Gawdy things just do not appeal to me.

Syldras · March 16

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

In a world where fire can be conjured from fingertips, enchantments etched into items, why isn't there more spectacle?

Can the average commoner afford an enchanted item? And how many people can actually use magic well? How much time do they even have for spectacle when they need to work hard to get themselves and their family fed, and there are threats everywhere (dragons, vampires, zombies, several plagues, daedra and cultists of all kinds,... oh, and there's a war going on)?

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

But lacking them as a whole would, as it would be poor world design.

You know what would have been good game design? Limiting visually spectacular effects to things that have a spectacular and extraordinary meaning. How special does a rare artifact still feel if you barely see it because everything else (and mostly much more mundane) looks even flashier? What effect do dolmens and other world events still have now that there's a dozen of fast-travel animations that look more extreme? I remember that when I started playing ESO 10 years ago, not only did the dolmen sound still mean a thing, seeing the first chains drop from the sky left an impression. As did the first harrowstorm a few years later. New players joining now probably see two dozens of mounts exploding, a glass atronach and a harrowing reaper standing in the bank, Molag Bal shooting laser beams, and 5 mini teleport dolmens before coming across the first real one, that then looks mundane in comparison.

Hollyniss wrote: »

spectacle over substance

Exactly this. And yes, we see the same with the writing.

Orbital78 · March 16

SilverBride wrote: »

Gawdy things just do not appeal to me.

Find a secluded area to retreat, people tend to congregate around town centres main hub areas. Just sort of one of those deal with it situations. Not a fan of some of the bling either personally, but it isn't as bad as some games. Personally I always hated the swords 2-3x the size of the character.

I would like more customization sliders though, turn down other character screams, musical instruments, and visual effects. But it should only be on your own client. Turning down some settings seems to help but it also turns down things I don't want turned down.