Update 50 Pre-PTS - Feedback Thread for Werewolf Visual Changes

Erickson9610 · March 13

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The face of the WW in the new design just looks so bad to me, looks more like a bat monster not really 'wolf like',
but hopefully the players who actually play WW like it.

Hopefully ZOS changes the new design so that players who don't play Werewolf will like it enough to give it a try. There's no sense in changing the model to something that even fewer people would like.

Erickson9610 · March 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Ooh, I like the furrier face so much more.

I realize it's a bit late in the game since the PTS is probably dropping in less than a month, but I'd love if the art team could take some time to give the wolvers a bit of rogaine or something.

No, actually it's as early as we could've hoped for; we're fortunate that ZOS gave us an early preview before the PTS date was even announced. It's so early that we currently don't know what the female variant will look like, since it'll be derived from the male variant.

I'm just glad that ZOS is actively taking feedback regarding the new model's design. We might see significant changes before and during the Update 50 PTS!

Hollyniss · March 13

@Mottlewing @Enemoriana Those look REALLY good! I hope the devs use your ideas! Much more wolf-like than before for sure!

Celas_Dranacea · March 13

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

coop500 · March 13

I would prefer a furred chest in the form of a human hair pattern, leaving parts of the stomach bare but still more fur to some degree. But I will literally take whatever I can get, especially those ears from Enemoriana.

Mottlewing · March 13

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

I sprayed a couple of werewolves with Abs-begone! just for you

. I had to draw each hair so it might not look as good/composed as the others but if you squint and tilt your head a little you get the idea.

I will say I do love the knee hair though. I'd be keeping that if it was up to me.

Erickson9610 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

I sprayed a couple of werewolves with Abs-begone! just for you . I had to draw each hair so it might not look as good/composed as the others but if you squint and tilt your head a little you get the idea.

I will say I do love the knee hair though. I'd be keeping that if it was up to me.

How about removing all exposed skin, including the muzzle, hands, and feet? What would that look like?

Enemoriana · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

I sprayed a couple of werewolves with Abs-begone! just for you . I had to draw each hair so it might not look as good/composed as the others but if you squint and tilt your head a little you get the idea.

I will say I do love the knee hair though. I'd be keeping that if it was up to me.

Left one, with more contract color of fur, looks great!
While I'm not strongly against skin there (as it was in some of the other TES games), having at least short fur is nice. That would look as werewolf hide it's owner can be proud of!

coop500 · March 13

I would be more curious if it's possible to make the limbs a little longer and bigger. The Skyrim werewolf has long arms to reflect that monstrous feel. I might try to do an edit of my favorite one here if someone doesn't try it first.

I don't exactly think we NEED it to be fully furred, but the front-facing one that follows the human body fur pattern is GREAT. It shows some muscle without being naked.

Regardless I think limbs is something we could possibly address maybe?

Celas_Dranacea · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

I sprayed a couple of werewolves with Abs-begone! just for you . I had to draw each hair so it might not look as good/composed as the others but if you squint and tilt your head a little you get the idea.

I will say I do love the knee hair though. I'd be keeping that if it was up to me.

This is awesome! I could be good w the left or the right bottom one - good different approaches to it - and I agree this is starting to look like a werewolf form that I could be proud of! Ty for the work of representing these ideas !

Erickson9610 · March 13

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

coop500 wrote: »

Nah I'd be totally happy with the chest entirely covered in fur or like, mostly covered like how the old model is, with only side parts of the torso showing. But I will literally take whatever I can get, especially those ears from Enemoriana.

I believe the intent for having a detailed chest is to emphasize the human distinction between male and female. Without that chest area, it'll be a bit harder for people to tell, which may be a good or bad thing depending on how wolflike the model is meant to be.

As always, males get to have their chest exposed, while females are planned to have it covered, just like in their human forms. It's a little strange, considering you'd actually expect the males to be hairier, but I digress.

coop500 · March 13

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

I tried adding a little more floof around the head, neck and shoulders along with giving them pointier ears. Personally I wouldn't mind more fur on the rest of the body too but I'm quite fond of this direction. I main all kinds of werewolf builds so I'm so excited and a little anxious to see what happens.

Yes, that's much better and doesn't look so sickly.

I'd prefer, though, even a bit more changes.

More fur on face, arms covered with short fur, knees textured as fur, belly colored closer to fur. A bit more fur on lower part of back. And wider and moved a bit higher and forward ears, something in between human and wolf position, and also more fur-colored. There is reason active predators has top-and-forward ears, not on sides!

Now we're talking! Moar fur! Even moar fur!

EDIT: I mean fam are we really attached to a werewolf with abs and visbile ***? I'm not personally - can we see a version w more fur ont the chest?

coop500 wrote: »

Nah I'd be totally happy with the chest entirely covered in fur or like, mostly covered like how the old model is, with only side parts of the torso showing. But I will literally take whatever I can get, especially those ears from Enemoriana.

I believe the intent for having a detailed chest is to emphasize the human distinction between male and female. Without that chest area, it'll be a bit harder for people to tell, which may be a good or bad thing depending on how wolflike the model is meant to be.

As always, males get to have their chest exposed, while females are planned to have it covered, just like in their human forms. It's a little strange, considering you'd actually expect the males to be hairier, but I digress.

The front facing one Mog did earlier I think would be perfect, torso-fur wise, as after further thought, I agree that with the style of model we have here, a little bit of skin showing would actually benefit the model more than not. It follows the natural pattern of male body hair and allows the male to be hairy too, while the female can still be a little different. While muscle is still shown for a beastly, powerful feel.

MorallyBipolar · March 13

I'm fine with the bald spots. What kills me is the way the forearms and hands look out of proportion and glued on after the fact, like they were taken from a different model and glued onto this one.

coop500 · March 13

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

I'm fine with the bald spots. What kills me is the way the forearms and hands look out of proportion and glued on after the fact, like they were taken from a different model and glued onto this one.

Yeah I agree. This one is currently my favorite

As it gives it the wolfy aspects we needed but didn't eliminate skin entirely. I wouldn't mind having a chest fur pattern like this though:

But I like the ears of the side one the most.

For now the poor arms and legs are in a sad state shape wise lol

Vulkunne · March 13

The bald spots look tacky and against the fur really makes it look like something is missing from those areas. If wolves don't have bald spots, why should this?

Wolves are covered with fur but have pink flesh beneath it. So, the werewolf, in order to be believable and more respectable, should not have random bald spots. I'm sorry but I wouldn't want any of my werewolves to look like Hagravens. Which, I suspect that might partially be the inspiration for this because the model looks wirey and more along the lines of a Hagraven's body.

Some of the changes look good, the ears and face should be more wolf-like. The form should be buffed, no gaps, no pink, but buffed and mammal like, not reptilian and a form not more closely resembling a man in terms of form and body weight. Needs to be beefier, larger but certainly not gargantuan or boss size, just scaled taller. More monster but not a total Lovecraftian monstrosity. Humanoid but wolf-monster instead of man-bear-pig?

Ataskir · March 13

All these mockups look great! Now that’s a werewolf!

Mottlewing · March 13

We now have oops all fur and I like big limbs and I cannot lie to the mix for funsies. I left the palms, teeth, nose and eyeballs fur free though haha.

Erickson9610 · March 13

Mottlewing wrote: »

We now have oops all fur and I like big limbs and I cannot lie to the mix for funsies. I left the palms, teeth, nose and eyeballs fur free though haha.

I actually really like the one on the bottom left! That's the model I'd like to see in-game.

I'm glad that the palms themselves don't have fur since that wouldn't make sense — real life wolves have paw pads made of skin, so the equivalent for a werewolf with humanlike hands would be fur on the backside of the hands and exposed skin on the palms.

coop500 · March 13

@Enemoriana Imma be a pest, sorry lol, because I love your original edits so much, and I'm not really sold on deleting the abs with fur, I think it was nice having those, that added to the beastly monster feel and made it look powerful.

The limb work from Mottlewing is a little better but I think what's missing is WHICH parts were beefed up, especially on the legs. I was consulting a friend of mine who's been into werewolves since she was a wee child and studied the heck out of them and their folklore and everything. (Some of you might know her as MaverickWerewolf)

ANYWAY, she pointed out that lengthening the foot (because this leg shape means the werewolf is walking on their toes, which means the main part that was lengthened was the foot) made it look more skinny, like the werewolf may be on stilts.

Instead, I wanna purpose what she suggested (her doodle).

This image, but also explain a little bit about what's being shown here. Basically, the thigh needs to be longer, move the knee down to the X, lengthen the part below the knee (but not the foot), and bend it.

What do you think about that suggestion? I personally think it's a part of what we're missing, as the leg feels too cramped and stubby in the bigger, beefier parts up higher. Not the foot/ankle (technically the foot, but some might see it as the ankle).

She also strongly suggests we keep the abs, and I agree.

This may also be insightful, even if it's a bird leg.

https://www.wingedcanvas.com/single-post/how-to-draw-animal-anthro-characters

tomofhyrule · March 13

Ooh, I need to stop popping in here and looking at all of these modified werewolf concepts. They’re starting to make me sad since I like them so much better.

I’m gonna change my original answer: yes, more furry = more awesome. After all, my two werebeasts are both hairy Nords who are almost half-bear in human form, so the idea that transforming into a beast makes them less hairy is… weird.

Hopefully the art team can play with the new models a bit to get some more fur on them like the concepts players have edited above. They look so much more like the werewolves I know and love from the rest of the series.

coop500 · March 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Ooh, I need to stop popping in here and looking at all of these modified werewolf concepts. They’re starting to make me sad since I like them so much better.

I feel you on that. I'm allowing myself to get hopeful and I'm telling myself I shouldn't but these mockups do make looking at the original WIP model painful.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 14

Can't say anything but that @Mottlewing and @Enemoriana 's changes are much better, but then that concept idea is a very low bar so not difficult improve it

Making it look more of a wolf instead of some skeever-bat will always be an improvement, as well as more fur.

I absolutely abhor the furless skin bits, they don't even make that much sense for Elder Scrolls werewolves. It's not some mix of human and wolf, it's a daedric disease curse that can infect any race and shapeshifts them into a humanoid beast to be a great predator. Like why would an argonian werewolf turn into a wolf beast form that has human skin bits and <censored word of a breast part that begins with N>. ...maybe I shall call them breast warts because of this silly censoring, which is the literal translation from my language.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO · March 14

as someone who isn't into werewolves that much, I gotta say this thread made me sad. I was curious enough to follow it, but we went from something that genuinely looked like a hellspawned horror (or hellblessed protector) that wasn't quite "right" and clearly didn't belong in the world to...

... well, a wolf, walking on its toes to pretend to be bipedal like its reaching for some cheese at Hircine's table. It may also have opposable thumbs, but there's very little else "human" about it, and certainly nothing "other".

By the time we finish discussing the leg anatomy of a bipedal wolf, we'll all be in agreement that quadrupedal forms run better with digitigrade legs. Then, it doesn't make much sense to have thumbs, because it's not like you can use tools if you are needing those limbs for locomotion...

... and then it's not a werewolf, it's a wolf. lol.

The updated model, for me, looks like a hybrid between a human and a wolf in a way that is unsettling and does not belong to nature. The model here at the end of the thread looks like a wolf grew thumbs and is briefly trying to reach for something with its snout despite having thumbs.

Anyways, my $0.02 as someone decidedly not usually a werewolf enthusiast.

Kallykat · March 14

The things I thought of when viewing this werewolf model:

1. Hyena (or gnoll) - This was my first thought when watching the livestream, especially when viewing the profile image.

2. Not fully transformed - The front shot makes me think we caught the character midtransformation from human to werewolf.

3. Lykoi cat -

Kallykat · March 14

I do really like the player adjustments to the model. More fur helps it look less hyena, and Enemoriana's ears make a huge difference. Hopefully the devs take note.

tomofhyrule · March 14

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Mottlewing wrote: »

We now have oops all fur and I like big limbs and I cannot lie to the mix for funsies. I left the palms, teeth, nose and eyeballs fur free though haha.

I actually really like the one on the bottom left! That's the model I'd like to see in-game.

I'm glad that the palms themselves don't have fur since that wouldn't make sense — real life wolves have paw pads made of skin, so the equivalent for a werewolf with humanlike hands would be fur on the backside of the hands and exposed skin on the palms.

I completely agree. @Mottlewing 's bottom mockups there are excellent!

Please, ZOS, please make these minor updates to the model before we get the PTS in a few weeks. It really goes a long way to making the werewolves look awesome and makes me really excited to play them!

CastleCrasher · March 14

I hate their obsession with 'Reality'.Like Diablo 4 team said：druid can transform to werebear，that mean druid must be a big guy.I'm not sure that Dr. Banner has to be a bodybuilder in order to transform into the Hulk.ESO team Think the old model is too cartoonish，a true werewolf should have smaller claws and a thinner body，I will not agree with this view.

Mottlewing · March 14

So far I've been drawing everyone's suggestions and I realized I never really drew what I wanted in a werewolf so here it is. I couldn't decide between abs and fur so I met in the middle and put some light fur on the abs.

I'm sorry if I made anyone sad with what it can be. This means alot to me too and I really wanted to give the devs some insight as to what everyone wants to see on the off chance they get to see these.

Thank you Enemoriana for the assist those ears look amazing

Syldras · March 14

Don't be sad, it could always be worse!

(And yes, I'm aware that's no werewolf, but just a regular dog-headed person.)

Source: Conrad Lycosthenes - Prodigiorum ac ostentorum chronicon (1557)
https://www.europeana.eu/de/item/446/IT_MI0293_16o_43

Enemoriana · March 14

Mottlewing wrote: »

So far I've been drawing everyone's suggestions and I realized I never really drew what I wanted in a werewolf so here it is. I couldn't decide between abs and fur so I met in the middle and put some light fur on the abs.

I'm sorry if I made anyone sad with what it can be. This means alot to me too and I really wanted to give the devs some insight as to what everyone wants to see on the off chance they get to see these.

Thank you Enemoriana for the assist those ears look amazing

Perfect.