Potential Concerns on Werewolf Refresh

ViggyBoi · March 12

Big werewolf enjoyer here, was looking over some of the potential ideas floating around from the devs in terms of what they are planning to do to refresh the play style and I have some questions, comments, and concerns.

1) Howl is being replaced with a bite.

Honestly pretty cool. I never took too much issue with the howl before like others, though I will admit it was pretty weird both thematically and game play wise. It was a weird projectile that wasn't really a projectile and I guess flavor wise you were dealing damage via concussive force? Anyway, not the point. What I wanted to discuss it the proposed change. The skill is going to be a two part spammable where the werewolf bites into the target and then causes them to bleed with a DOT that scales with execute damage. Really cool idea, just two things on my mind

a. How does the DOT work? Is it separate from the attack that caused it like how werewolf berserker light attacks cause bleeding that ticks on its own or is it like Cutting Dive/Destructive Touch where recasting the spammable also restarts the DOT? Because depending on the tick frequency (Destructive reach is once every 2 seconds as opposed to Cutting Dive) wouldn't that actually affect the damage when you are spamming the skill?

b. Why is the first part physical damage? I get WHY its physical damage but its kind of weird because with other skills similar to this you would expect both portions to deal bleed damage. All of the wild animal/mauling, puncturing style skills and set procs from my memory are all bleed damage. The closest similar skill to Werewolves is the warden bear which deals nothing but bleed (wild guardian). Not saying all damage sources need to be uniform, but having a majority of one damage type allows you to better build around it for specific load outs.

2) Roar range is pitiful.

Roar is the only CC werewolves have access to and the range is basically nonexistent. Yes werewolves are melee classes so you will have to be in melee regardless but Roar is only 6 meters currently. Thats LESS than a melee right attack if I recall correctly. Its the shortest range of all werewolf skills and it just feels bad chasing someone and being just short of managing to CC them, especially considering how expensive it is.

3) If werewolf is no longer going to be permanent with the new ulti drain meter, how MUCH stronger are the devs willing to make it to balance out the consistency?

4) If Carnage is remaining as a buff, could it be extended by even 5 seconds?

This is a pain point ive mentioned before but when it comes to werewolf rotations, despite them being simpler on paper, there is a lot riding on you not missing your refresh windows. Assuming Carnage's WPN/SPL damage buff remains somewhat similar to how it is on live, would it be possible to increase the duration from 10 to 15 seconds? just so the buff itself is not divisible by 10 like Claws and Hircine's Rage so there is more time in between when those counters would expire? The fact that pounce will no longer need to be recast is a big boon because these skills (minus claws) cannot be allowed to run their full duration anyway or your stacks will drop off. Just a QOL thing I think would be appreciated.

5) Will werewolves be able to source more class passives/use weapon passives/have more bonuses added to their RP passives?

It would be appreciated if any of these were considered.

Erickson9610 · March 13

ZOS mentioned on stream that Call of the Pack is still there for players who like running around in Werewolf form constantly. I assume Devour and Blood Rage will be changed to generate Ultimate, as well as Feral Pounce/Carnage.

It's imperative that even solo players have the option of extending their timer. I love the synergy between Pack Leader and Call of the Pack, so I hope that persists.

Hopefully this means Ultimate can be generated in Werewolf form now. This would mean Heroism is now useful for werewolves, and Class passives like Corpse Consumption (which generates Ultimate when using a corpse consuming ability like Devour) are now valuable. I also hope sets like Salvation and Shapeshifter's Chain help you stay in form longer instead of just reducing the initial cost to transform.

Ataskir · March 13

I’m pretty excited for the werewolf timer to be ult based actually, since then you can take advantage of certain set bonuses that give you a buff based on how much ultimate you currently have.

Please have it NOT drain when out of combat though! There’s nothing worse than being kicked out of werewolf form cause there’s a long cutscene that needs to play before the next fight.

dark_hunterxmg · March 13

I am concerned about how long a solo werewolf could be able to maintain form. If I am playing a werewolf, I don't want to be shifting back and forth between human and wolf. I especially don't want to if I'm in the middle of a fight.
Werewolf could be on a toggle. It could be generated from a slottable inventory item. Maybe give it a theme, like "Lunar Stone" or something. Then we could free up a slot for a werewolf ultimate skill.

Mathius_Mordred · March 13

Of course, WW should be a toggle; as it stands now, you lose form lots of times, which is thoroughly annoying and prevents a lot of people from even bothering with it.

You lose WW form if:

1. You port to another player (so if doing dragon hunts you have to pay a huge amount to port to every wayshrine yourself)
2. You can't find food, so forget Cyrodiil
3. Listening for the thousandth time to an NPC drone on about a story you've long forgotten before opening a door in a dungeon
4. Entering any new zone, such as leaving/entering a public dungeon, for example

It doesn't matter what we say, they've probably long ago finished all this work and unless there's a game-breaking bug they won't touch it again for another 10 years.

JimT722 · March 13

I think most people want to use werewolf more like a class than an ultimate. They want to use it everytime they are in combat. Hopefully, they accommodate that.

It sounds like werewolves will no longer be roaring enemies to death so that's something at least. let's keep giving our feedback. ZOS has been doing great addressing feedback lately.

Emeratis · March 13

I have a slightly dissenting opinion. I personally would like to see werewolf have more support for being able to switch/choose which form you use, and not to have to build around werewolf form if you want to use it. My one werewolf is a templar tank/dps depending on situations and one of my frustrations with werewolf over the years is that playstyle wise I had to choose one form to be useless so the other could thrive. Obviously I usually chose his humanoid form and kept the werewolf stuff more to rp flavor but it would be nice if it felt more comfortable to change forms willingly. I'm hoping since they did mention mag stat support to the new werewolf this means they are aware some people prefer to play werewolf more like me and are opening up avenues for different types of play with werewolf and not just the permawerewolf or bust playstyle.

Side note, werewolf tank pain point is that in group play at higher levels you are expected by your group to provide certain buffs and debuffs and as it currently stands werewolf tank is a meme because this can't happen. I do worry that if some of what I mentioned above is not addressed, while werewolf dps might see play depending on how good or bad it is, werewolf tank will remain not viable past a certain level of play. I've known a few people over the years who started to get into vet trials and quit or gave up werewolf because they reached this theoretical ceiling of what they could do.

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups. I know they did a while ago fix petsorc pain points and mechanical liability on vAA with chain lightning and vHOF with the final boss's reflect damage so I hope they are also accounting for werewolf group play frustration because part of the stigma in trial groups is from these pain points/frustrations. Honorable mention I have heard some horror stories and werewolf restrictions from infamous werewolf leap scenarios in vMOL as well. The other problem is as I mentioned once dps lost their werewolf form which happens often in trials/group content as you do readychecks or need to pause to have people swap sets, they hit like a wet noodle until they get their werewolf form back (which is an ult on the expensive side).

Just putting this out there because I do fear that even if the werewolf rework is neat it might still suffer from the "this is for casual players only" and that would be a shame. Endgame used to have more build diversity and less restrictions but since arcanist came out, it feels like that has been relatively nonexistent. Subclassing exacerbated things but even before that it was still very bad. If the goal of the class reworks is to fix this, they need to ask what keeps certain builds out of play. Some things are just number tweaking but werewolf definitely has parallels with why petsorc was so hated in group content that could be fixed/addressed with this rework.

Mathius_Mordred · March 13

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

Emeratis · March 13

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. Voltaic will always choose two targets if it can. If you have two werewolves and they are not eligible to get it, that means the ten other people in the run are more likely to draw it, that includes the five supports in the trial. Supports being locked to one bar can be more punishing than a dps. I know they fixed the targeted but can't barswap issue but I'm pretty sure they did not fix this. If I'm wrong about that, my bad but I do not think I am.

Mathius_Mordred · March 13

Emeratis wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. Voltaic will always choose two targets if it can. If you have two werewolves and they are not eligible to get it, that means the ten other people in the run are more likely to draw it, that includes the five supports in the trial. Supports being locked to one bar can be more punishing than a dps. I know they fixed the targeted but can't barswap issue but I'm pretty sure they did not fix this. If I'm wrong about that, my bad but I do not think I am.

How do you know that the ten others are more likely to get it? It is more likely from a programming viewpoint that the immune players are targeted with VA, but then the effect is purged due to their immunity. You are suggesting an IF THEN coding in the game, which I find very unlikely, that requires a Dev Coder deciding that if some of the players are immune, then the others will pay, and so it is a deliberate choice on the part of the coder.

Imagine that 10 people are immune, your logic would imply that the other two get VA continually. I think you are guessing unless you have actual documented proof, in which case, please share your source.

Elendildur · March 13

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. Voltaic will always choose two targets if it can. If you have two werewolves and they are not eligible to get it, that means the ten other people in the run are more likely to draw it, that includes the five supports in the trial. Supports being locked to one bar can be more punishing than a dps. I know they fixed the targeted but can't barswap issue but I'm pretty sure they did not fix this. If I'm wrong about that, my bad but I do not think I am.

How do you know that the ten others are more likely to get it? It is more likely from a programming viewpoint that the immune players are targeted with VA, but then the effect is purged due to their immunity. You are suggesting an IF THEN coding in the game, which I find very unlikely, that requires a Dev Coder deciding that if some of the players are immune, then the others will pay, and so it is a deliberate choice on the part of the coder.

Imagine that 10 people are immune, your logic would imply that the other two get VA continually. I think you are guessing unless you have actual documented proof, in which case, please share your source.

I have been effected by Voltaic Overload as an Oakensoul user before. It definitely can effect Oakensoul

Mathius_Mordred · March 13

Elendildur wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. Voltaic will always choose two targets if it can. If you have two werewolves and they are not eligible to get it, that means the ten other people in the run are more likely to draw it, that includes the five supports in the trial. Supports being locked to one bar can be more punishing than a dps. I know they fixed the targeted but can't barswap issue but I'm pretty sure they did not fix this. If I'm wrong about that, my bad but I do not think I am.

How do you know that the ten others are more likely to get it? It is more likely from a programming viewpoint that the immune players are targeted with VA, but then the effect is purged due to their immunity. You are suggesting an IF THEN coding in the game, which I find very unlikely, that requires a Dev Coder deciding that if some of the players are immune, then the others will pay, and so it is a deliberate choice on the part of the coder.

Imagine that 10 people are immune, your logic would imply that the other two get VA continually. I think you are guessing unless you have actual documented proof, in which case, please share your source.

I have been effected by Voltaic Overload as an Oakensoul user before. It definitely can effect Oakensoul

When? We have done extensive test on this recently and nobody gets damaged. You do get the blue screen but nothing happens.

Emeratis · March 13

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

I also hope they address the issue of werewolf being a liability in certain trials such as cloudrest with Relequen's barswap mechanic. Last time werewolf dps trended, some trials groups would ban it's use because werewolf dps could not get barswap in vcr which often lead to the supports getting it more, which is very punishing for the group, especially learning/training groups.

Werewolves and Oakensoul users are no longer targeted by voltaic overload in Cloudrest; it has been like this for some considerable time now. We literally ran Cloudrest only on werewolves to test this, and nobody gets it.

You're misunderstanding what I am saying. Voltaic will always choose two targets if it can. If you have two werewolves and they are not eligible to get it, that means the ten other people in the run are more likely to draw it, that includes the five supports in the trial. Supports being locked to one bar can be more punishing than a dps. I know they fixed the targeted but can't barswap issue but I'm pretty sure they did not fix this. If I'm wrong about that, my bad but I do not think I am.

How do you know that the ten others are more likely to get it? It is more likely from a programming viewpoint that the immune players are targeted with VA, but then the effect is purged due to their immunity. You are suggesting an IF THEN coding in the game, which I find very unlikely, that requires a Dev Coder deciding that if some of the players are immune, then the others will pay, and so it is a deliberate choice on the part of the coder.

Imagine that 10 people are immune, your logic would imply that the other two get VA continually. I think you are guessing unless you have actual documented proof, in which case, please share your source.

Full disclosure I am not a coder. What little I do know about coding is there are mulitiple ways to code something that function the same way by what we know externally. Neither you or I have seen the game's code so neither of us can know for certain how they fixed the initial afflected by barswap but cannot barswap problem. I don't have esologs premium so I cannot see logs past certain prior patches, even ones I was in that had oakensoul or werewolf builds. I might be able to get enough people together to test it but it won't be for at least a few hours. As I also said I'm happy to be wrong. The groups I run vcr with usually do not have oakensoul or werewolf builds so it's been a while since I've done a run of cloudrest with them. I was aware of the changes but from what I understood if it it just passed the curse onto others eligible, not eliminated a core mechanic of the trial.

Regardless, you commented on one point of my overall initial post and ignored the general spirit of it, which is that I do not want to see werewolf penalized in group play and forced into only casual/overland spaces for the sake of my many friends who love werewolf but do not have a forum account to speak for themselves. Even if the cr issue has been addressed that does not solve the tank expected buff issue or that currently you have to build for 100% werewolf form or 100% humanoid form or your dps dramatically suffers. Trying to quickly glean public logs on esologs to find one that might give insight into this and finding no werewolf dps listings on several trials just shows kinda what I mean that werewolves are not seeing play in dungeon/trial group play and that is a problem for an mmo. That was the main point I wanted to say with my post. I don't want that message to get lost.

Mathius_Mordred · March 13

Emeratis wrote: »

Full disclosure I am not a coder.

Totally agree with the rest.

JaxontheUnfortunate · March 13

When I used to play eso more regularly I was exclusively playing werewolf in all content for both dps and tank, but don’t any longer with the way it has been treated over the years and while I am glad they are making changes I am not happy with many of them.

Elendildur · March 13

@Mathius_Mordred @Emeratis
I looked through all the patch notes since Summerset was released, and the only one that references the interaction between Voltaic Overload and Oakensoul or Werewolf is the patch for U37 (link here, the Cloudrest part is right at the bottom: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/629071/pc-mac-patch-notes-v8-3-5). I also decided to test it myself on a character using Oakensoul, and I can confirm Voltaic Overload can hit an Oakensoul user if there is no other option (Log here: https://www.esologs.com/reports/MGLkvKDa46jJB8tF?fight=last)

ViggyBoi · March 13

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I am concerned about how long a solo werewolf could be able to maintain form. If I am playing a werewolf, I don't want to be shifting back and forth between human and wolf. I especially don't want to if I'm in the middle of a fight.
Werewolf could be on a toggle. It could be generated from a slottable inventory item. Maybe give it a theme, like "Lunar Stone" or something. Then we could free up a slot for a werewolf ultimate skill.

From what I understand it might function like a hybrid of the bear and overload where you need base 100 as a threshold to transform like bear then while its active it starts to drain. Wouldn't make sense if 100 was consumed then you instantly revert. So ideally its 100 ult minimum and you get 100 seconds if not generating ult. Hypothetically if you were say at 500 you could just spam toggle in and out of werewolf form like overload.

Ataskir · March 13

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

You lose WW form if:

1. You port to another player (so if doing dragon hunts you have to pay a huge amount to port to every wayshrine yourself)
2. You can't find food, so forget Cyrodiil
3. Listening for the thousandth time to an NPC drone on about a story you've long forgotten before opening a door in a dungeon
4. Entering any new zone, such as leaving/entering a public dungeon, for example

This is something that I really hope gets addressed, it’s really damn annoying getting forced out of the form simply by going through a load zone.

YandereGirlfriend · March 13

Non-WW player here.

I do not understand why Werewolf still is not a simple toggle. I have never heard a compelling reason for why that should not be the case. The ult-drain mechanic feels so contrived and "gamey" for the sake of being gamey. Just unnecessary extra hoops to jump through for the player.

ViggyBoi · March 13

ViggyBoi wrote: »

Big werewolf enjoyer here, was looking over some of the potential ideas floating around from the devs in terms of what they are planning to do to refresh the play style and I have some questions, comments, and concerns.

1) Howl is being replaced with a bite.

Honestly pretty cool. I never took too much issue with the howl before like others, though I will admit it was pretty weird both thematically and game play wise. It was a weird projectile that wasn't really a projectile and I guess flavor wise you were dealing damage via concussive force? Anyway, not the point. What I wanted to discuss it the proposed change. The skill is going to be a two part spammable where the werewolf bites into the target and then causes them to bleed with a DOT that scales with execute damage. Really cool idea, just two things on my mind

a. How does the DOT work? Is it separate from the attack that caused it like how werewolf berserker light attacks cause bleeding that ticks on its own or is it like Cutting Dive/Destructive Touch where recasting the spammable also restarts the DOT? Because depending on the tick frequency (Destructive reach is once every 2 seconds as opposed to Cutting Dive) wouldn't that actually affect the damage when you are spamming the skill?

b. Why is the first part physical damage? I get WHY its physical damage but its kind of weird because with other skills similar to this you would expect both portions to deal bleed damage. All of the wild animal/mauling, puncturing style skills and set procs from my memory are all bleed damage. The closest similar skill to Werewolves is the warden bear which deals nothing but bleed (wild guardian). Not saying all damage sources need to be uniform, but having a majority of one damage type allows you to better build around it for specific load outs.

2) Roar range is pitiful.

Roar is the only CC werewolves have access to and the range is basically nonexistent. Yes werewolves are melee classes so you will have to be in melee regardless but Roar is only 6 meters currently. Thats LESS than a melee right attack if I recall correctly. Its the shortest range of all werewolf skills and it just feels bad chasing someone and being just short of managing to CC them, especially considering how expensive it is.

3) If werewolf is no longer going to be permanent with the new ulti drain meter, how MUCH stronger are the devs willing to make it to balance out the consistency?

4) If Carnage is remaining as a buff, could it be extended by even 5 seconds?

This is a pain point ive mentioned before but when it comes to werewolf rotations, despite them being simpler on paper, there is a lot riding on you not missing your refresh windows. Assuming Carnage's WPN/SPL damage buff remains somewhat similar to how it is on live, would it be possible to increase the duration from 10 to 15 seconds? just so the buff itself is not divisible by 10 like Claws and Hircine's Rage so there is more time in between when those counters would expire? The fact that pounce will no longer need to be recast is a big boon because these skills (minus claws) cannot be allowed to run their full duration anyway or your stacks will drop off. Just a QOL thing I think would be appreciated.

5) Will werewolves be able to source more class passives/use weapon passives/have more bonuses added to their RP passives?

It would be appreciated if any of these were considered.

Adding onto #2, if Howl is getting reworked and is no longer going to be the 10 meter concussive shout projectile, could Roar fill that spot instead? Roars and howls conceptually the same thing.

ViggyBoi · March 13

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Non-WW player here.

I do not understand why Werewolf still is not a simple toggle. I have never heard a compelling reason for why that should not be the case. The ult-drain mechanic feels so contrived and "gamey" for the sake of being gamey. Just unnecessary extra hoops to jump through for the player.

I think the idea was to emulate the mechanics you see in single player elder scrolls games. The transformation was a commitment/feral episode and you couldn't just freely shift back and forth. That's a single player game though and similar to vampire they ought to take that into account in its design.

Erickson9610 · March 13

ViggyBoi wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Non-WW player here.

I do not understand why Werewolf still is not a simple toggle. I have never heard a compelling reason for why that should not be the case. The ult-drain mechanic feels so contrived and "gamey" for the sake of being gamey. Just unnecessary extra hoops to jump through for the player.

I think the idea was to emulate the mechanics you see in single player elder scrolls games. The transformation was a commitment/feral episode and you couldn't just freely shift back and forth. That's a single player game though and similar to vampire they ought to take that into account in its design.

The timer mechanic was introduced in Skyrim. Rather than punishing you for not acting like a werewolf when you were forcefully transformed (Daggerfall and Morrowind would debuff you if you failed to kill anyone) Skyrim opted to reward you for acting like a werewolf when you chose to transform (you get more time in form, which is what you wanted anyway).

I appreciate that the timer mechanic in ESO encourages you to group with other werewolves as pack animals (via the Call of the Pack passive), to hunt things (via the Blood Rage passive), and to eat things (via the Devour passive) but several Werewolf players don't like the risk of losing their form.

I honestly think the timer system shouldn't revert your form when you run out, but rather it should either reward you for playing along with the roleplay fantasy or it should punish you for not playing along. Maybe if you're low on Ultimate you get debuffed, and if you're high on Ultimate you get buffed further?

JaxontheUnfortunate · March 13

Yeah I agree, though I suspect the change is to prevent running around transformed for hours on end.

YandereGirlfriend · March 13

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

Yeah I agree, though I suspect the change is to prevent running around transformed for hours on end.

I think that you are probably right.

But like, what would be "wrong" with that?

It doesn't impact anyone else's enjoyment of the game to just let WWs be WWs where and when they want.

JaxontheUnfortunate · March 13

Because Zos doesn’t want werewolf as a class it’s an ultimate skill and shouldn’t be up indefinitely is likely the reasoning.

Erickson9610 · March 13

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

Yeah I agree, though I suspect the change is to prevent running around transformed for hours on end.

The whole point of Feral Pounce/Carnage, Devour, Blood Rage, and Call of the Pack is to allow you to run around for hours on end. These are the ways to extend or add time to your transformation.

What are these skills/passives going to be changed to in the rework? I assume they're not going to be deleted entirely. Maybe they generate Ultimate, if the goal is to remove this "werewolf resource" by converting it back to the Ultimate system like it was years ago.

Ataskir · March 13

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I honestly think the timer system shouldn't revert your form when you run out, but rather it should either reward you for playing along with the roleplay fantasy or it should punish you for not playing along. Maybe if you're low on Ultimate you get debuffed, and if you're high on Ultimate you get buffed further?

I like that idea! The concept of getting stronger the more ultimate you have while in form sounds really entertaining. You could focus on generating ult so you can keep those bonuses, or if you’re the lazy wolf you can simply play in a non-buffed transformed state.

Staying in form is something I think many werewolf players enjoy. Getting forced out of it is never fun.