Anyone else hear the dirge?

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

As things stand now, this change killed the "risk and reward" gameplay some people are blathering on about completely.

Because there's only a "risk" if you're carrying TV. If you're not, there's no risk involved. You may die, but who cares about that.

Again, you should only be able to get as many TV as you're carrying yourself. Want to nick 3k from someone else? Carry those 3k around with you.

This isn’t a terrible idea.
Your gains from a player being capped by your carried Tel Var.

So let’s say you bomb 3 people, you’re carrying 3,000, you kill one player, you get 3,000 and then Vicious Death procs and you can then gain another 6,000 from both players who died to Vicious Death.

Would do wonders to reign in single target ganking, as the playstyle would still exist, you would just need to be smarter about it.

I suggested this for years but people usually hate on it. But I agree that it's the only way to make it truly risk vs reward and for fairness.

If people had an effect around them incrementally based on how much Tel Var they carried, a ganker could make an entire minigame out of it. 😂

Not talking about a visual effect, I mean the part in which players should only be able to take based on what they're carrying (cap it at whatever you're carrying and/or use the already existing multiplier system.)

AKA encourage gankers to also have to risk their stones if they want to rob people. I don't really care what hairsplitting way it's done, just SOMETHING.

There is risk... They still have to get back to their base. This is a long overdue change that will reinvigorate pvp in the imperial city, at least. It was never meant as a free pve farm zone.

I keep seeing people talking about IC being like a free pve farming zone. Have seen this a couple times. But it's never been a 'free' farming spot. Not sure where you guys are getting that. People could still be attacked and taken out, you just had to be quick about it.

Yeah all this change is gonna do is kill the zone even more lol. Maybe not at first, you'll have a honeymoon of curbstomping folks who aren't aware of the change and are like 'oh crap' but once people get tired of the insanely unbalanced disaster, they're just never returning.

Their greed for more Tel Var will have them playing alone soon. We all know who they are. At a minimum, picking up Tel Var should be optional. That won't solve this problem, however.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

As things stand now, this change killed the "risk and reward" gameplay some people are blathering on about completely.

Because there's only a "risk" if you're carrying TV. If you're not, there's no risk involved. You may die, but who cares about that.

Again, you should only be able to get as many TV as you're carrying yourself. Want to nick 3k from someone else? Carry those 3k around with you.

This isn’t a terrible idea.
Your gains from a player being capped by your carried Tel Var.

So let’s say you bomb 3 people, you’re carrying 3,000, you kill one player, you get 3,000 and then Vicious Death procs and you can then gain another 6,000 from both players who died to Vicious Death.

Would do wonders to reign in single target ganking, as the playstyle would still exist, you would just need to be smarter about it.

I suggested this for years but people usually hate on it. But I agree that it's the only way to make it truly risk vs reward and for fairness.

If people had an effect around them incrementally based on how much Tel Var they carried, a ganker could make an entire minigame out of it. 😂

Not talking about a visual effect, I mean the part in which players should only be able to take based on what they're carrying (cap it at whatever you're carrying and/or use the already existing multiplier system.)

AKA encourage gankers to also have to risk their stones if they want to rob people. I don't really care what hairsplitting way it's done, just SOMETHING.

There is risk... They still have to get back to their base. This is a long overdue change that will reinvigorate pvp in the imperial city, at least. It was never meant as a free pve farm zone.

Where are you guys getting the "free" part from? Were people able to go into IC and get TV by just standing around doing nothing? No, they had to go out and actually do things, engage with the content, kill mobs and the like. It was never "free" farming, because the people farming were killing stuff and finding Chests and such. In fact, ironically gankers and bombers are the ones doing free farming, if anything. They let others do all the actual farming and then blast them into the stratosphere with little to no chance of retaliation.

How exactly do you see this change as causing anyone to want to come into IC who isn't doing the ganking? If people trying to leave IC before losing half the TV they'd been farming for a couple of hours was THIS much of a problem, MAYBE that should tell people that very few people find it fun to lose that much progress?

Do you know what would ACTUALLY bring people back to IC? If they didn't lose hours' worth of work to people who don't want to do it themselves. I guarantee you that if people lost 15-20% max from death to other players, they'd be more inclined to do stuff there. But when people are punished for actually engaging with the content while the people who just sit around waiting to nuke them get rewarded, and then it gets made HARDER to avoid losing the stuff you worked that long for? Yeah nah, that's going to only drive more people away.

In my experience with PvP if one is in a PvP zone one is the content; one is there to provide entertainment for other players.

Whether one partakes willingly or unwillingly is immaterial. One's frustration will be just as entertaining (to others) as one's enjoyment.

Look at the experience through that lens and is likely to make more sense.

ApoAlaia wrote: »

In my experience with PvP if one is in a PvP zone one is the content; one is there to provide entertainment for other players.

Whether one partakes willingly or unwillingly is immaterial. One's frustration will be just as entertaining (to others) as one's enjoyment.

Look at the experience through that lens and is likely to make more sense.

...I'm not sure this is a uh...healthy way of looking at PvP. Very few people, I'd wager, go in with the expectation of being OTHER peoples' entertainment, they go in because either they enjoy the challenge of fighting people rather than NPCs, or because there are things they want that they can't earn outside of PvP.

Finding amusement in frustrating other players is also not really the best look. I mean it's one thing if the person you're trying to annoy is themselves a jerk or really rude or something, but if it's people who just want to get quests done, or earn enough to get some mats or a title or a Costume or something, or they're minding their own business fishing...taking pleasure and amusement from upsetting other people isn't really a good thing. In fact, people who do that are usually called trolls.

And it makes even LESS sense to me to view PvP in this light.

Arunei wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

In my experience with PvP if one is in a PvP zone one is the content; one is there to provide entertainment for other players.

Whether one partakes willingly or unwillingly is immaterial. One's frustration will be just as entertaining (to others) as one's enjoyment.

Look at the experience through that lens and is likely to make more sense.

...I'm not sure this is a uh...healthy way of looking at PvP. Very few people, I'd wager, go in with the expectation of being OTHER peoples' entertainment, they go in because either they enjoy the challenge of fighting people rather than NPCs, or because there are things they want that they can't earn outside of PvP.

Finding amusement in frustrating other players is also not really the best look. I mean it's one thing if the person you're trying to annoy is themselves a jerk or really rude or something, but if it's people who just want to get quests done, or earn enough to get some mats or a title or a Costume or something, or they're minding their own business fishing...taking pleasure and amusement from upsetting other people isn't really a good thing. In fact, people who do that are usually called trolls.

And it makes even LESS sense to me to view PvP in this light.

PvP is license to behave in a manner that would be unacceptable outside the game. Whether is the best look or not is a matter of perspective.

To bring up a dead horse for further castigation as an example, in fencing it would be quite frowned upon if one would tackle a defeated opponent to the ground then proceed to dangle one's privates over their face repeatedly. This however is perfectly acceptable in PvP. Is it a good look? The answer lies in the eye of the beholder.

In a PvP enabled zone other players are the main source of entertainment (the content); if willing and able this comes in the form of thrill and challenge, if unwilling or unable well, they are in a PvP zone so... anything else they can provide will have to do.

Is it healthy? again, depends on the perspective. Is not something I particularly enjoy but that says more about me than it does about PvP itself.

Regardless, even if one can make no sense of PvP one can still partake of the second favourite activity in PvP. In my opinion It is a lot more accessible than actual player confrontation 'in the field'. Players of all levels of aptitude and skill can equally participate.

One can come to the forums and complain that one has been defeated in a manner one does not approve of and request swift remediation from the development team.

After participating in these forums for more than a decade it would seem to me that each player has a very narrow definition of what constitutes acceptable means of defeat; anything and everything outside those parameters demands immediate attention.

That should have never been touched. "Can't get it right" strikes again. IC = borked!

This is a very welcome change. Gankers should be trivial if you're set up to actually PVP. Their risk vs reward is giving up survivability for upfront damage. Survive the first hit and you can kill most with ease. At worst you have a decent fight.

It seems a lot of people go in with PVE setups and expect a fighting chance against players, this has never really worked out well.

Bombing is also easily avoided by slightly distancing yourself from others, especially those not prepared to PVP.

I play all three playstyles in IC, ganking, bombing, and all-out brawling, with brawling practically negating the first two.

Go in set up for PVP, and you'll have a much better experience.

It will make a dead zone even more dead.

People porting out of fights was never an issue I really noticed. I'd rather fight people who want to fight anyway

Next week: Ganker2 watches ganker1 gank the only farmer, then ganker2 ganks ganker1, then ganker3 ganks ganker2 and then ganker4 ...

Munkfist wrote: »

This is a very welcome change. Gankers should be trivial if you're set up to actually PVP. Their risk vs reward is giving up survivability for upfront damage. Survive the first hit and you can kill most with ease. At worst you have a decent fight.

It seems a lot of people go in with PVE setups and expect a fighting chance against players, this has never really worked out well.

I only go into IC to putter around the sewers or do some dailies, so that I can get some telvar to buy antiquities leads. If the leads vendor in IC didn't exist, I'd have no reason to go into IC. But for some reason, people who PvP in IC (or like the IA) have an easy way to get leads. The rest of us have to grind against punishing RNG. So if you're a pure PvE'er and you need one of the really difficult leads to get, you'd like the chance to buy it, rather than having to dig up 2000 treasure maps or run the same dungeon 500 times. It's not my fault that ZOS has given IC PvPers an easy way to get leads, but not me, so take it up with ZOS that people are going into the zone in PvE setups who have zero interest in PvP. It's their design.

Before, when I'd had enough of puttering around, I could just port out of the zone. Now, because I can get a piddly 100 telvar by sneezing upon entry into the zone, I would have to spend time walking back to base and being taken down by gankers. Of course, I won't be doing that. I've been killed in the zone before and fair game, but not because I'm being forced to walk past a bunch of gankers. I was killed because I ran into someone as I was puttering around, which was fair game. So I had a chance of getting out with all my hard-earned telvar. Now I'd have no chance. So I won't be going into IC anymore. It wouldn't be a good use of my time.

Anyway, because of this change, I'd like to know if ZOS is going to introduce another leads vendor, maybe one that takes all currencies, or if people who PvP in IC have an extra way to get leads easily, but the rest of us don't. If the new leadership is steering the ship more towards "play as you want", and it seems that they are with some positive changes already in this direction, then the leads vendors need to be revisited because they're limited to only two activities in the game right now. Activities that frankly a large part of the playerbase ignores.

I suspect the vendors were put into those locations to encourage more participation in these activities, but that's 1990s design thinking and thankfully the current leadership seems to live in 2026. So I'm really hoping they take another look at this, especially since this change in IC is now actively discouraging people from going into the zone. It's a big middle finger to a large part of the playerbase to make this change when one of the leads vendors only takes telvar.

Its working fine on my machine. Also I just traveled from one end of the sewers to the next bagging 30,000 Tel Var Stones. No idea what everyone is afraid of. Oh yeah, I also 1v3'd a group. Its a PVP zone. Don't like it? Cloudrest is that way.

I don't PVP, but my experience with these type of changes, is that initially people will jump in and try to make other player's lives h*ll... but then will eventually get bored and move on to something else. This is all new, and people are obviously taking advantage of it.