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DK now the broken meta in PvP
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Renato90085✭✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »Major_Mangle wrote: »My buddy never enters PvP without near cap resist for both, and 1600+ Crit Resist. Only his Rallying Cry and Major/Minor Resolve were active in this screenshot.
Bottom right shows Mota-Ka BG map.
To be hit that hard, with those kind of defense stats, shows an underlying issue, and it has nothing to do with either player. 😂
Not to be harsh here, but these aren't really any impressive defensive stats at all (even with nocp taken into consideration).rather the opposite. If the screenshot posted earlier is connected to this stat sheet, then those death recap values makes perfect sense.
So you're implying that damage inflation has gotten so bad that 34k armor is considered unimpressive? lmao.
2 years ago you would be considered a tank for having 34k armor.
Wasn't really referring to the physical/spell resistances, but rather the crit resistance and the HP which are on the lower end, even for nocp.
it right point
my necro tank have same crit resistance(1.8k) in no Rallying Cry, the IA set+dead living heal ghost(12+10=22% Damage reduction ) 26-29k armor ,and have 36-40k health ,but since subclass damage inflation ,last six month i alway one shot from meta subclass combo so i give up play they(3 nerco same build)0 -
Faltasë✭✭✭✭You can acknowledge that something is overperforming without implying that it needs to be nerfed.
This is the first class to be reworked after all. DK is an issue, but it’s an issue that will work itself out over time.
I'd argue that dk overperforming is a good thing. I hope that's the new floor.
XBOX 2015-2019
PC-NA 2019-2022, 2025-present
Please keep fixing the combat. It's good to fix the combat.
Auri-El is the one true God.5 -
MJallday✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can acknowledge that something is overperforming without implying that it needs to be nerfed.
This is the first class to be reworked after all. DK is an issue, but it’s an issue that will work itself out over time.
I'd argue that dk overperforming is a good thing. I hope that's the new floor.
Improvise adapt overcome
But basically don’t be a vamp in PvP
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marcbf✭✭✭Let's immediately nerf the new DK. Just as it always is when a class is too strong in PvP.PC EU2
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xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭3 years of one shot proc set combos: skill issue git gud
1 day of DK doing it with class skills: RARRRRRRRRRRGH NERFFFFFFF
15k whips aren't new, people just weren't doing it because it takes way more patience and setup than doing the same thing with Assassin, now it's much easier, but give it a couple weeks for players to adapt their subclass builds.
Almost like the problem isn't DK but the way the entire PvP is still the worst of both worlds, nigh unkillable tanks that can also threaten to one shot.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP14 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major_Mangle wrote: »My buddy never enters PvP without near cap resist for both, and 1600+ Crit Resist. Only his Rallying Cry and Major/Minor Resolve were active in this screenshot.
Bottom right shows Mota-Ka BG map.
To be hit that hard, with those kind of defense stats, shows an underlying issue, and it has nothing to do with either player. 😂
Not to be harsh here, but these aren't really any impressive defensive stats at all (even with nocp taken into consideration).rather the opposite. If the screenshot posted earlier is connected to this stat sheet, then those death recap values makes perfect sense.
Those are incredible defense stats, what are you talking about? That’s cap resist pre-pen, defensive jewelry, and you’re not beating Rallying Cry for crit resist on an actual build. What do you expect? Full tank stats?
The majority of players that you will run into do not maintain higher defense stats than those while reliably chaining kills.
I wouldn’t call 26k health incredible, that’s below the norm for Cyrodiil and is usually considered VD bait. 32k resistance is average. That’s like bare minimum where you wanna be at if this persons fighting up close. A dk is gonna punch through that easily with fire breath alone but if they’re using fossilize also that’s minor breach as well plus 5 percent vulnerability. More than that, the crit resistance looks as though he only has rallying cry and no impen which is not adequate in this meta.
The other problem is the stamina and magicka recovery being so low with only 26k health, that person is gonna get gassed out fast, if that’s actually as high as it gets. But I’ll give some benefit of the doubt here and say that probably isn’t reflecting fully buffed stats. But nothing here is crazy defensive for cyrodiilEdited by BardokRedSnow on March 10, 2026 12:14PMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...11 -
Rogue_Coyote✭✭✭Heaven forbid whip hits like spectral arrow has been hitting for YEARSEdited by Rogue_Coyote on March 10, 2026 12:20PM9 -
Dimorphos✭✭✭✭Sometimes some skills, sets or classes are a bit over tuned and they usually are then tuned down a bit.
But most of the time it seems that people who don't understand the game, do not understand the mechanics or theorycrafting, do not understand pvp, are always complaining and always asking for nerfs. I only hope that game companies will notice this and stop listening to them even if they are the majority. I would even like to see a game company to tell these people who complain " how about you learn the game ".
There is no need to please these people who just want everything to be easy as heck, one button smashing and monotonous. Pleasing them and changing the game to suit them will only eventually kill the whole game.6 -
Jestir✭✭✭✭✭Molten whip (with stacks) is now the second hardest hitting (non ult) skill in the game
Flame whip is 4th and you get 5 casts of that when it procs
Obv the grim focused morphs take 1+3. So yes it hits hardEdited by Jestir on March 10, 2026 1:01PM1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rogue_Coyote wrote: »Heaven forbid whip hits like spectral arrow has been hitting for YEARS
And whip is a melee skill, it should be hitting harder than ranged skills imo, or at least be easier to pull off the burst with melee skills since being in close range already means you're more likely to die vs a long range andy.
Whip is in a really good place, jabs builds are still stronger but im not mad at it. Might change after the class reworks in the future also.
The only nerf I still want to see is Charm and thats only because that skill is actually broken and glitchy, though with these changes I see way less charm usage for now, which was refreshing.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...9 -
ArctosCethlenn✭✭✭✭Rogue_Coyote wrote: »Heaven forbid whip hits like spectral arrow has been hitting for YEARS
Spec bow has deserved a pvp nerf for years though, and everyone knows it. The solution isn't "give everyone their own version of merciless" its "nerf merciless burst". NB is basically held hostage by the skill because it is so overloaded. One and two shots aren't healthy gameplay.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations11 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
This.
Mentioned this during the PTS cycle several times, but they should really start putting Critical Resistance to class passives as well (preferably on skill lines that don't provide burst damage).
It's absurd that crit damage gets shoved in everywhere (10% added to Earthen Heart this patch) but there's no defense added to counter that... Critical Resistance passives wouldn't even affect PvE in any negative way.7 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vulsahdaal wrote: »Elendildur wrote: »Vulsahdaal wrote: »As a PvP DK Im on right now, I havent even got a chance to try Whip yet. Im just confused that Spiked Armor is gone. Not a name change, because I checked everything and nothing like it (that adds to resistance) even exists anymore and where it was on my bar is now just an empty slot. Why is this?
If whip is as bad as you say, well at least thats something, but Id rather it remain as it was before if I could get my hardened armor back.
It has been renamed to Earthspike Mantle, and moved to Earthern Heart
Seriously? Why would they move it to a completely different section??
Well at least that explains why I cant find it, I had to give up my Earthen Heart (and wasnt happy about it) for Sorc Dark Magic and unfortunately can not switch back
Thanks for letting me know, I guess Ill have to see if Im able to scribe something similar.
Its was a bad move to change skills to different section, they couldnt foresee that with subclassing, some people would lose access to it?
That was the point.
It was (and is, for the other classes) far too easy to just drop certain lines and replace them with others when all of the useful skills were in one or 2 lines. Now that the useful skills are spread out between skill lines, it becomes harder to subclass.
Subclassing shouldn't just be better by default, it should be a choice you make with pros and cons. Switching around skills did exactly that. You can't drop a DK line as easily anymore without considering what you're losing and replacing it with.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on March 10, 2026 1:51PM13 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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Could also up the base 1320 crit resist everyone gets. Jack that up until only a pure glass cannon with zero survival or sustain is capable of one shotting.Mentioned this during the PTS cycle several times, but they should really start putting Critical Resistance toPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP2 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Molten whip single targeting for 11k+ even when you have 35k +resistance and are blocking
Damage stacking beyond recognition . 6 hits 1 second if it’s done right - so Anyone not running dk is not lasting more than 2 seconds
Count me out until they fix that mess. It’s broken
This was always going to be the case because they won't fix the underlying issue.
They know subclassing is broken. The only way to make Pure-classing more appealing is to make pure classing as strong as or more powerful than subclassing - which is broken. So you can expect some broken pure-class stuff from all the reworks in an effort to make pure-classing more attractive.
The bottom line is that if you want to fix the system, you need to fix what is broken. By all means, rework the classes - they can all use a refresh, but subclassing, hybridization, and scribing are the main sources of the games problems at this point (throw in add on's too).
I understand that there are segments of purist TOS gamers who want the game this way, but it just does not work outside of a single-player environment where your play doesn't affect anyone else's experience.1 -
ArctosCethlenn✭✭✭✭
Subclassing releasing at the same time as monomyth skews everything even more, I'd suggest making monomyth only give minor force while battle spirit is active, not major.
I'd honestly been hoping they'd change all the class crit damage passives to be mutually exclusive, like what they did with the class ult gen passives; that'd be another good way to rein in the ridiculous crit meta.Edited by ArctosCethlenn on March 10, 2026 2:09PM2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
This.
Mentioned this during the PTS cycle several times, but they should really start putting Critical Resistance to class passives as well (preferably on skill lines that don't provide burst damage).
It's absurd that crit damage gets shoved in everywhere (10% added to Earthen Heart this patch) but there's no defense added to counter that... Critical Resistance passives wouldn't even affect PvE in any negative way.
There’s several things they could do, easiest IMO would just be to increase the value of the trait itself. The issue is ZOS doesn’t see it as an issue. They are all in on the crit builds, we see that with the best sets, skills, and now them making DK into a crit class which honestly doesn’t fit well. It would be really nice if we had variety outside of crit."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations2 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭ResistMajor_Mangle wrote: »My buddy never enters PvP without near cap resist for both, and 1600+ Crit Resist. Only his Rallying Cry and Major/Minor Resolve were active in this screenshot.
Bottom right shows Mota-Ka BG map.
To be hit that hard, with those kind of defense stats, shows an underlying issue, and it has nothing to do with either player. 😂
Not to be harsh here, but these aren't really any impressive defensive stats at all (even with nocp taken into consideration).rather the opposite. If the screenshot posted earlier is connected to this stat sheet, then those death recap values makes perfect sense.
So you're implying that damage inflation has gotten so bad that 34k armor is considered unimpressive? lmao.
2 years ago you would be considered a tank for having 34k armor.
Resistances are just one component of a tank TBH. You can have high resistances and nothing else and your going to get smashed like a wet noodle in PVP. To be a tank, you need good sustain, good block mitigation, and good HOTS or a spammable burst heal, as well as some good raw damage mitigation and crit resistance. A pure tank will stack all of these things and miss out on any offensive potential. Other players will mix/match these stats with what they can and cannot live without for their build so they have some offense and defense.0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
This is what i was trying to say earlier. Dogwater broken crit meta is absurd.
Zos continues to do everything in their power to remove skill and counterplay from the game so Timmy and Tammy Tamriel can feel competitive and gud when they kill a sweat woth broken garbage. Yay me. I did it! Now I will renew my subscription.
Likely nothing wrong with dk and or whip... whhhip... cool whhhip...Edited by Thumbless_Bot on March 10, 2026 2:20PM0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So glad that we're finally getting a fun class state and everyone's freaking out, I knew this would happen. I'm so tired of wet noodle classes, DK finally feels fun and respectful of my time but since ZOS can't separate PVP and PVE everyone's gonna suffer.Hoping for more playable races6 -
Xirks✭✭✭I mean to be honest, nothing new. DKs have always been op meta for pvp.Former STAMINA NB DPS
Now just a 1hp wet noodle wielding failed and outdated class that still gets nerfed at every patch3 -
Xertasian✭✭My buddy never enters PvP without near cap resist for both, and 1600+ Crit Resist. Only his Rallying Cry and Major/Minor Resolve were active in this screenshot.
Bottom right shows Mota-Ka BG map.
To be hit that hard, with those kind of defense stats, shows an underlying issue, and it has nothing to do with either player. 😂
Look like they was running corrosive armor. Hello up there in your head, where your brains at. The skill ignore defense so you can have 50k defense, it be useless. AS always i have to say the ugly part out loud, Bad layers, will always cry nerf on forums, when they don't understand why or how they loss a fight.2 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
This is what i was trying to say earlier. Dogwater broken crit meta is absurd.
Zos continues to do everything in their power to remove skill and counterplay from the game so Timmy and Tammy Tamriel can feel competitive and gud when they kill a sweat woth broken garbage. Yay me. I did it! Now I will renew my subscription.
Likely nothing wrong with dk and or whip... whhhip... cool whhhip...
Ding ding ding.
DK is fine. The problem is how absurd stats have gotten across the board. Having 140% crit damage and 55%+ crit chance is trivial to get these days; 5 years ago that would have been hacker level stats or you would have had 16k health and 18k resists to achieve that.
On the flip side, you can't just nerf the crit damage meta without also gutting shields, because damage is so high that shields are kind of the only thing keeping people alive right now.
It's a corner ZOS has backed themselves into.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on March 10, 2026 2:34PM2 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Problem is not DK, whip is allowed to hit like spec bow pretty sure that was their goal, it’s also melee and not range. The actual problem is the crit burst meta that hasn’t changed, people get deleted instantly with no counterplay and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
This is what i was trying to say earlier. Dogwater broken crit meta is absurd.
Zos continues to do everything in their power to remove skill and counterplay from the game so Timmy and Tammy Tamriel can feel competitive and gud when they kill a sweat woth broken garbage. Yay me. I did it! Now I will renew my subscription.
Likely nothing wrong with dk and or whip... whhhip... cool whhhip...
Ding ding ding.
DK is fine. The problem is how absurd stats have gotten across the board. Having 140% crit damage and 55%+ crit chance is trivial to get these days; 5 years ago that would have been hacker level stats or you would have had 16k health and 18k resists to achieve that.
On the flip side, you can't just nerf the crit damage meta without also gutting shields, because damage is so high that shields are kind of the only thing keeping people alive right now.
It's a corner ZOS has backed themselves into.
16k health and 10k resistances because you needed light armor pieces and could not run a single heavy piece at all.
Also didn't have room on the bars for resolve (major or minor), let alone percent mitigations like protection, evasion, etc. and often you had to drain your own health with vamp skill, so sat at sub-5k health most of the time.Edited by Turtle_Bot on March 10, 2026 2:55PM3 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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How about "while Battle Spirit is inactive" for this P2W piece of crap. Problem solved.ArctosCethlenn wrote: »I'd suggest making monomythPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
BradTheNord✭✭✭Let it have its time. next up warden not like it’s gonna need the spotlight or anything but yano …2 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
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How about "while Battle Spirit is inactive" for this P2W piece of crap. Problem solved.ArctosCethlenn wrote: »I'd suggest making monomyth
Wait... how is DK pay to win? it's one of the OG classes?Hoping for more playable races2
