ZOS you really should have Explained the changing of Endeavors better. Many think they are gone.

Hotdog_23 · March 7

Please add a News section and Patch notes section as well in the game that people can go see and read. Under the announcement tabs. Stop depending on players to access official information outside the game. This has been a long-term issue in ESO.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why all the news articles and patch notes have not been put in the game yet. ZOS spends time writing and maintaining good articles and passing along information in articles but doesn’t share this information in game has always been confusing to me.

Stay safe

Toanis · March 7

Eternity_Was wrote: »

The TRUTH is.. the developers are making positive changes. Payroll costs money.. development costs money.. servers cost money.. royalties/storefront cuts reduce the amount they receive from each purchase. Refocusing their revenue stream to more of a cosmetic one.. is huge for increasing player counts.. and smart in my opinion, because more players = more crown store purchases. Making the actual content free is a risk that they might not get paid for the work.. but the crown store will almost certainly cover it.

That's just part of the truth, though. The traditional $60 for a full game and $15 for a month's subscription have half the value they had 20 years ago, fair enough. But this change is not about bringing in new players to increase crown store sales. A decade old "Skyrim Online" isn't going to suddenly attract a lot of "new" players. For the young ones Skyrim was the game their dad used to play, and the others decided long ago that ESO wasn't for them.

The goal of a battle pass is to get the dedicated players to pay a little bit more. Instead of $60 for an expansion worth tens of thousands of man-hours plus voice acting you offer them some nice cosmetics worth maybe a month or two of an artist's work, for just $45 extra. From the profit you may even throw in a "free" little story dlc worth a couple thousand man-hours.

In the end the company makes more money, fashion endgame is flourishing (and might actually bring in some new players) but the actual gameplay content, which some of us are here for, becomes a rare treat.

Darkmage1337 · March 8

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

This is something folks like @ZOS_Kevin or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom should be doing IMO. I've suggested a few times that we get some kind of community management digest, and maybe that suggestion's been lost in the fray. But yeah, with changes like these, it's better to over communicate than under communicate. And really, the best place for communication is in-game. That's where it gets frustrating seeing that Crown Store pop-up get refreshed so quickly and wonderfully but things like this get a less detailed treatment.

We did a digest about 2 or 3 years ago and found that folks were not reading them. The theory is it was viewed as a rehash of information we had already put out, so folks were not interested in reading it. And if folks were already not reading our social/ forums/ or articles, then they also were not reading the Digest. We can look into trying this again, but just wanted to note that. We did it for about six months.

I think the big confusion point here is, folks so use Endeavors and Seals of Endeavors interchangeably. Which we understand. We have communicated these changes in several different ways to make sure we are covering as much of the community as we could. We are also clearing things up where we can.

We have noted the confusion with the team and asked for a better way to communicate these changes in-game, as we currently do not have a good spot to do longer form messaging. Which would have at least helped in making sure anyone logging in would see the update. All that to say, we recognize that despite our efforts to communicate these changes in articles, livestreams, forum posts, social platforms and patch notes, the change has left folks who are not keeping tabs on those confused and we need a better way to address them.

Why not do an ingame screen banner announcement message at various time-intervals like peak player times?
ZOS had no problem spamming ingame screen banner messages in the past regarding store sales, or whatever.
The only screen-messages that we receive now (rightfully so) are "server maintenance beings in XYZ minutes".
For a huge system-change, like endeavour currency, the ingame message could be something along the lines of:
"ESO's Endeavor currency system is changing in the near future. Please read our article / social media about it."
This method provides a simple and direct way to communicate to players that an important change is coming.
(To be clear: do not spam us with ingame screen banner ads about noncombat pet sales or whatever, in the past.)
Server maintenance: yes. Huge game-altering changes (like ingame currency or level/champion system): also yes.

barney2525 · March 8

Toanis wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

No you are going to be able to earn Endeavors and from what Skinny Cheeks said the number of Endeavors is going up from approx. 2,000 per month to 2,500. Clarity would be nice from Zos though.

Ah you mean Seals of Endeavour, the currency, not Endeavours, the daily mini quests.

2000 endeavors per month ?

wow. gonna be on ESO 24/7

BahometZ · March 9

The blank space where daily endeavours used to be in the game would be a really good spot to put some information.
Every other game I've played puts patch notes... er, in the game. O.o
ESO has always been a shockingly uninformative and cryptic video game. Most info that helps you become a functional, helpful and well-performing member of the ESO community is gleaned from other players, content-creators, or independent websites. Things have improved but it's like getting eggs from a goose.

twisttop138 · March 9

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

There's no altruism in what they're doing but it's also not nefarious. Of course they want us to choose premium. Of course they'll do things to point us towards paying more. They're a for profit company. Recognize and avoid if you want. But I think we need to give it a fair shake.

I totally agree with this point. Which is why I am personally so upset about these changes. I don’t think they’re trying to “scam” us or anything nefarious. I also don’t think it is altruistic like it is being painted.

The previous business model was creating a chapter ZOS was proud of and selling us that content. Many of us would pre-order because we trusted them and the collectors items were nice.

Now the business model is “free” content. Putting our previous dailies and endeavors into a battle pass where we are constantly marketed into upgrading so as to not miss out on limited seasonal offerings.

I would rather just keep the previous 100% free loyalty systems in place and keep paying for high quality, permanent content. Now we have a partially paid loyalty system with free content which isn’t entirely permanent.

Well, yeah. But Zos said themselves that they just cannot swing the chapter model anymore. Now we have to decide if we ride with Zos on this new thing or we get off the subway. Now if you wanna talk about the possibility of Zos content going downhill because it's free and they only have incentive to focus on things that promote the paid battle pass tier, or free content meaning we'll never again see something as great as Summerset or Morrowind, then we can talk all day. Many people share that concern. What I'm saying though, is that there's only one way to find out. For me, anyway. I'm gonna stay on the subway.

Syldras · March 9

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

How many players read the existing in-game notices? It seems like most people click through the startup messages as fast as possible. Honestly, there's no fixing human nature.

Shoving the info right into someone's face with the need to click it away would still be the most direct option to reach someone (and a ridiculously convenient one, too). If they still don't read it, it's their own fault if they stay uninformed.

Emeratis · March 9

twisttop138 wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

There's no altruism in what they're doing but it's also not nefarious. Of course they want us to choose premium. Of course they'll do things to point us towards paying more. They're a for profit company. Recognize and avoid if you want. But I think we need to give it a fair shake.

I totally agree with this point. Which is why I am personally so upset about these changes. I don’t think they’re trying to “scam” us or anything nefarious. I also don’t think it is altruistic like it is being painted.

The previous business model was creating a chapter ZOS was proud of and selling us that content. Many of us would pre-order because we trusted them and the collectors items were nice.

Now the business model is “free” content. Putting our previous dailies and endeavors into a battle pass where we are constantly marketed into upgrading so as to not miss out on limited seasonal offerings.

I would rather just keep the previous 100% free loyalty systems in place and keep paying for high quality, permanent content. Now we have a partially paid loyalty system with free content which isn’t entirely permanent.

Well, yeah. But Zos said themselves that they just cannot swing the chapter model anymore. Now we have to decide if we ride with Zos on this new thing or we get off the subway. Now if you wanna talk about the possibility of Zos content going downhill because it's free and they only have incentive to focus on things that promote the paid battle pass tier, or free content meaning we'll never again see something as great as Summerset or Morrowind, then we can talk all day. Many people share that concern. What I'm saying though, is that there's only one way to find out. For me, anyway. I'm gonna stay on the subway.

This is not what they said. It's close to what they said, but we already have a lot of misinformation about u49 and this year's stuff flying around so I'd rather cite the direct quotes (they also talked about this on stream but imo the article was better at articulating things):

Instead of my framing that the team must have lost its ability to make large chapter updates, Kath says it's the opposite. "As a studio, we had two projects in development," she says, referring to Blackbird...[snip] The team still have the capacity to make chapter-sized updates, but they're choosing not to. According to Nick Giacomini, refreshing older aspects of The Elder Scrolls Online wasn't something "the previous way of doing things" allowed. It's only by stopping the Chapter focus, which absorbed the bulk of the studio's attention for 12 - 18 months that they can take the time to return to older content and update it to work well with what has been added to the game since its original release.

Source

This game has a lot of ailing and outdated systems and piling on new while the old needs work/help/modernization isn't necessarily the best idea.You can debate on whether they could have a more dual focused approach or whether the full commitment to revitalizing old systems then going back to new chapterlike content is better, but saying they can't do chapter model stuff with their current team is not what they said and misleading.

SummersetCitizen · March 9

Emeratis wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

There's no altruism in what they're doing but it's also not nefarious. Of course they want us to choose premium. Of course they'll do things to point us towards paying more. They're a for profit company. Recognize and avoid if you want. But I think we need to give it a fair shake.

I totally agree with this point. Which is why I am personally so upset about these changes. I don’t think they’re trying to “scam” us or anything nefarious. I also don’t think it is altruistic like it is being painted.

The previous business model was creating a chapter ZOS was proud of and selling us that content. Many of us would pre-order because we trusted them and the collectors items were nice.

Now the business model is “free” content. Putting our previous dailies and endeavors into a battle pass where we are constantly marketed into upgrading so as to not miss out on limited seasonal offerings.

I would rather just keep the previous 100% free loyalty systems in place and keep paying for high quality, permanent content. Now we have a partially paid loyalty system with free content which isn’t entirely permanent.

Well, yeah. But Zos said themselves that they just cannot swing the chapter model anymore. Now we have to decide if we ride with Zos on this new thing or we get off the subway. Now if you wanna talk about the possibility of Zos content going downhill because it's free and they only have incentive to focus on things that promote the paid battle pass tier, or free content meaning we'll never again see something as great as Summerset or Morrowind, then we can talk all day. Many people share that concern. What I'm saying though, is that there's only one way to find out. For me, anyway. I'm gonna stay on the subway.

This is not what they said. It's close to what they said, but we already have a lot of misinformation about u49 and this year's stuff flying around so I'd rather cite the direct quotes (they also talked about this on stream but imo the article was better at articulating things):

Instead of my framing that the team must have lost its ability to make large chapter updates, Kath says it's the opposite. "As a studio, we had two projects in development," she says, referring to Blackbird...[snip] The team still have the capacity to make chapter-sized updates, but they're choosing not to. According to Nick Giacomini, refreshing older aspects of The Elder Scrolls Online wasn't something "the previous way of doing things" allowed. It's only by stopping the Chapter focus, which absorbed the bulk of the studio's attention for 12 - 18 months that they can take the time to return to older content and update it to work well with what has been added to the game since its original release.

Source

This game has a lot of ailing and outdated systems and piling on new while the old needs work/help/modernization isn't necessarily the best idea.You can debate on whether they could have a more dual focused approach or whether the full commitment to revitalizing old systems then going back to new chapterlike content is better, but saying they can't do chapter model stuff with their current team is not what they said and misleading.

You can believe that if you want, but I absolutely do not.

If you followed the development of the last few chapters, you can see they are in major struggle mode. The quality and quantity of content has stagnated for years. They aren’t creating content people want to buy.

The idea that their studio is as strong as ever just choosing to go a new route is completely silly to me. Business decisions like this reek of desperation more than strength.

Look beyond the marketing and very carefully worded answers to player concerns.

It had more to do with lackluster releases, getting worse and worse reviews over the years. Now everything is “free to play” so when it disappoints you, you have less right to object… you didn’t pay for it anyway!

MoonPile · March 9

Syldras wrote: »

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

How many players read the existing in-game notices? It seems like most people click through the startup messages as fast as possible. Honestly, there's no fixing human nature.

Shoving the info right into someone's face with the need to click it away would still be the most direct option to reach someone (and a ridiculously convenient one, too). If they still don't read it, it's their own fault if they stay uninformed.

Part of the issue is, people just hate pop-ups. As with Announcements, they'd immediately exit and don't know where to find it again.

It would be helpful if there were physical bulletin boards near every major city wayshrine (more immersive than plain UI), or something that could be linked to in Chat the way in-game Help articles are.

Then in Chat, instead of having to explain or saying "Go find this article titled ____ from 3 weeks ago on the site", we can just say "go check the board" or even link to the relevant posting directly.

Syldras · March 9

MoonPile wrote: »

Part of the issue is, people just hate pop-ups. As with Announcements, they'd immediately exit and don't know where to find it again.
It would be helpful if there were physical bulletin boards near every major city wayshrine (more immersive than plain UI), or something that could be linked to in Chat the way in-game Help articles are.
Then in Chat, instead of having to explain or saying "Go find this article titled ____ from 3 weeks ago on the site", we can just say "go check the board" or even link to the relevant posting directly.

I'm not against using in-game boards for that, but someone (I think several people even) in this thread wrote that most people generally don't like to do much to obtain info - wouldn't they be annoyed by needing to walk to the message board then?