Removing Map Based Leads?

katanagirl1 · March 2

MoonPile wrote: »

PSA for everyone (and CC @MidnightDuel and @LootAllTheStuff)

Opened maps will stack

Maps' Item IDs stay the same as they were, it's just the "Unique" status will be removed to allow stacking.

Here's a screenshot from EdenPrime on PTS: The Deadlands II Map shown is a stack of one they previously had in inventory (copied from Live server) + one new from PTS. In other words, opened, pre-U49 maps and newly-obtained ones should all stack.

This is the only good thing about the changes in my opinion. Just like the unopened surveys and master writs, I will have to open all of them as soon as I get them (to see if I will do them or give them to a friend who likes to do them) since I don’t hoard them and it is an extra step for me.

EDIT: clarification

MoonPile · March 2

@MidnightDuel @BretonMage,
Agree, zone-specific Unopened maps would be useful. For the sake of clarity and removing any doubt:

My last post for reference, and a little more context:

PTS was on PC EU copy by the time I saw a question: "Are we sure that old (U48-) maps would stack with new (U49+)?"
Now we know: Yes. Important Q because of how Survey-stacking ended up working (old Surveys didn't stack with new on launch). I didn't have my own old maps from Live EU to test with, so Eden helped.

If we only wanted to test the stacking of new, loose maps, it's easy on PTS: we can get them instantly from tester coffers. Then bank them, make a new toon, repeat. Shot of the coffer contents:

To check if "Unopened" maps drop in the world, I took Azandar out to Broken Light Temple: Yes, they do:

But no, sadly the Unopened scrolls don't drop zone-specific maps. The Unopened scroll gave this Khenarthi map:
(The two things below it are the tester coffers containing maps.)

P.S.
Azandar's folios drop a lot of them, but most are worthless – more shots:

In ~8 months I got maybe 5 Solstice maps "naturally", even with this passive. Preaching to the choir here, but I'll repeat that this is why new-DLC maps are not even worth thinking about for profit. In the same time a handful of maps drop, one could easily make millions of gold doing almost anything else.

Here's a 2nd, took only a few minutes:

But again, trash base-game zone map inside:

Exactly this:

BretonMage wrote: »

If we're stuck with treasure maps being completely random, then I think that ALL lead drops (not just the first codex) from treasure maps must be close to 100% to make it even possible to complete the codex.

Furthermore, all zone maps must have an equal chance to drop, this heavy bias against newer zones is truly horrible. In the recent Heart's Week event, I got a lot of treasure maps, almost all of them were older maps; I got one Apocrypha map, one Solstice map, and NO West Weald map.

MidnightDuel · March 2

I guess I prefer the Schrödinger's Cat scenario of unopened, unidentified and unknown rewards, Generally, I'm more disappointed when they are opened than had I left them in a perpetual state of limbo. Same is true for collecting rare maps generally. The though that a Solstice Treasure Map might contain the last lead I need for a codex is more rewarding that actually digging up the one-hundredth map in a row with no lead at all.

By the way, I got three leads in a row today in Stros M'Kai:

One from a treasure map (motif), one from normal chest (Dwarven Puzzle Box), and one from a resource node (Dwemer Star Chart). The latter was a complete surprise, since originally, it was an exceedingly rare drop, only known to come from killing wolves and beetles near Bthzark, not from a node anywhere near the Dwarven ruin.

I much preferred it when leads dropped from unique and interesting locations instead of rare Treasure Maps.

MoonPile · March 2

MidnightDuel wrote: »

...
By the way, I got three leads in a row today in Stros M'Kai:

One from a treasure map (motif), one from normal chest (Dwarven Puzzle Box), and one from a resource node (Dwemer Star Chart). The latter was a complete surprise, since originally, it was an exceedingly rare drop, only known to come from killing wolves and beetles near Bthzark, not from a node anywhere near the Dwarven ruin.

I much preferred it when leads dropped from unique and interesting locations instead of rare Treasure Maps.

Me too. Characters that are new to a zone get a boost to loose lead drops. For example if you need 2/3 - 3/3 on the Star Chart (or the infamous MBP), it's a months-long nightmare with your main. But a newbie would get it in days. (Another example in Case 01 here.) (This does not work the same way for Maps – per reports from anyone I know who's tried.)

But it's not viable for everyone, and it's not guaranteed or anything – still RNG, some items worse than others. (E.g., I haven't been able to get a second Vitrified Soul Crystal lead in Solstice regardless of any rituals. Turned around yelling "Bloody Mary!" and everything! Maybe just my bad luck... or they made the numbers especially rude for it.) So I support improving RNG overall / mercy system as in this thread.

MidnightDuel · March 2

Update: No sooner had I dug up the Dwarven Puzzle Box, the next overland chest unlocked dropped another puzzle box lead.

The subject character is an alt that I've been leveling in Antiquities and skills for a tank build. I was mostly picking-up survey maps and skyshards, along with any maps that happened to be left in the bank after the great purge.

MoonPile wrote: »

... I haven't been able to get a second Vitrified Soul Crystal lead in Solstice regardless of any rituals.

bold added by @MidnightDuel

@MoonPile : You won't want to hear this, but I got two of those leads over the last couple days from overland treasure chests in Solstice. Different characters, but leads five and six for the account.

cuddles_with_wroble · March 2

lillybit wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

For anyone who may have missed it within the prior 5(!) pages of this discussion, the relevant poll now has its own post in the Systems section:

[HOUSING & ANTIQUITIES] External Poll: Treasure-Map Antiquity Leads

MoonPile wrote: »

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord) is collecting player feedback on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings, specifically from a Housing perspective.

✅ 10 quick questions
✅ Anonymous (no email collected, your ESO @UserID won’t be shared)
⚠️ Once submitted, you can’t edit your answers

📊📝 The Poll: https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47 📝📊

Please take a minute to fill it out and share the poll with your friends so we get as many responses as possible! 🙏

We’ll post the results on the official forums (here in the Game Systems section) and The Real Endgame Discord server as soon as we get enough participation!

Big thanks to @Lilarna, Rhiwiel, @MoonPile and @onyxorb for helping build this poll!

For more context, here is a compilation of data so far – including some from players' posts within this same thread:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/808642600457338880/info-treasure-map-antiquities-leads-02-2026

You missed out a level of RNG;

If you get a map drop in the first place,
If you get the right map
If you get a lead drop
If you get the right lead

It sometimes feels like maps drop every time but I've tried to farm just any random map before (I think for an endeavour) and it can take a while!

All of those levels of rng you just listed apply to basically every mythic lead as well, more reasoning that this entire system is pointlessly painful in its grind

Arunei · March 2

I feel like Maps should be heavily weighted towards dropping Leads (like an 80% chance of it) and that there should be two modes of curation you could select from:

1) Only get Leads you haven't Excavated at least once, or
2) Only get Leads for things you've Excavated at least once

Being able to use the first Lead to get to an item you want, then swap to the second to work on filling out the Codex/getting all the pieces/getting all the Chapters, would really help in cutting down the absolute nightmare that is Map Leads. And for the second option you still have the chance to get Leads you don't particularly want, so it doesn't get rid of the RNG entirely. It just makes it more tolerable and manageable.

MoonPile · March 2

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Update: No sooner had I dug up the Dwarven Puzzle Box, the next overland chest unlocked dropped another puzzle box lead.

The subject character is an alt that I've been leveling in Antiquities and skills for a tank build. I was mostly picking-up survey maps and skyshards, along with any maps that happened to be left in the bank after the great purge.

MoonPile wrote: »

... I haven't been able to get a second Vitrified Soul Crystal lead in Solstice regardless of any rituals.

bold added by @MidnightDuel

@MoonPile : You won't want to hear this, but I got two of those leads over the last couple days from overland treasure chests in Solstice. Different characters, but leads five and six for the account.

Thank you for solidifying: Solstice RNG-sus just hates me 😂 ah well
Can't tell you how many such chests I've opened in hopes. (My first one was actually from a mob in Calindvale though.)

But yeah, figures it was an alt you're leveling! They're ~*charmed*~

UPDATE:
SMH go figure I get a Vitrified Soul Crystal from an urn today... but on the wrong account! xD (The one new to Solstice of course: newbie luck strikes again!)

MidnightDuel · March 3

@MoonPile Solstice RNG-sus just hates us all

Vitrified Soul Crystal leads have dropped for me from the Solstice Siege Camp bosses, camp loot chests, and worm cultists. But since the Writing Wall Event ended, I refuse to do another camp. Normally, overland chests try to give me Stone-Nest Pendulum and Giant Crocodile Skull leads. So it was a pleasant surprise to get leads for something else from normal, overland chests.

MidnightDuel · March 3

MoonPile wrote: »

UPDATE:
SMH go figure I get a Vitrified Soul Crystal from an urn today... but on the wrong account! xD (The one new to Solstice of course: newbie luck strikes again!)

You were just tempting fate playing on an alt account. I avoid certain activities on EU for just this reason.

kitsun_dark · March 4

I gave up when i bought all the maps in the guild stores, even those that weren't on TTC, and didn't get a single lead for this nautilus.
And no, i am not tired of whining about it

, because ireally wanted this house on the live server.

MidnightDuel · March 4

Telvanni Peninsula Treasure Maps are typically more reasonably priced on PC NA traders, but the supply is rather scant. Hardly enough maps are available to overcome the RNG hurdle for leads in most cases.

They are for sale this week in IC for Tel Var.

MoonPile · March 4

lillybit wrote: »

You missed out a level of RNG;

If you get a map drop in the first place,
If you get the right map
If you get a lead drop
If you get the right lead

You're right and I updated my post a bit.

But really I just wanted to say: isn't it awful that there are so many [bleeping] levels that it's easy to just forget one or two – even for those of us who know way too much about this system? 😂 Good grief.

MidnightDuel · March 6

Without a single Solstice Map since the IA offering, I decided to dig up the Giant Crocodile Skull and Stone-Nest Pendulum leads that I already had before they expired. No sooner had I dug them up today than new leads dropped dropped back-to-back for both from delve mobs.

The imbalance in lead sourcing is infuriating.

MoonPile · March 6

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Without a single Solstice Map since the IA offering, I decided to dig up the Giant Crocodile Skull and Stone-Nest Pendulum leads that I already had before they expired. No sooner had I dug them up today than new leads dropped dropped back-to-back for both from delve mobs.
...
The imbalance in lead sourcing is infuriating.

Same. Still waiting for Vitrified Soul Crystals but all I get is Skulls and Pendulums. -_-
(I LIKE getting things "for free", just wish everything else got buffed to match.)

The housing Devs even remarked on the weird imbalance: after they made Purples buyable (and each zone has at least one high-drop-% purple), eventually unbuyable Blues and Greens became technically rarest. So I hope this is fixed eventually.

Same for furnishing plans: the blue and purple zone drops get added to the Writ Vendor's pouches, but greens don't and some are still wildly expensive. Some WW greens are still like 200k. Especially since they started adding all the junk base-game plans to the loot pools in these new zones, it sucks.

MidnightDuel · March 7

MoonPile wrote: »

The housing Devs even remarked on the weird imbalance: after they made Purples buyable (and each zone has at least one high-drop-% purple), eventually unbuyable Blues and Greens became technically rarest. So I hope this is fixed eventually.

Digging up these helped me level 20+ characters to max Antiquities:

That a codex is required to purchase housing antiquites at all seems completely outdated, given that mythic gear doesn't need any codex to craft multiples as long as one of them has been completed. Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes. Whereas there is no way to deconstruct a furnishing antiquity or to sell it.

allochthons · March 7

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes.

Not any more. We haven't been able to decon mythics for a few patches now. A friend had thousands of transmutes saved in Rings of the Pale Order when the change went through. Lost them all.

MidnightDuel · March 7

allochthons wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes.

Not any more. We haven't been able to decon mythics for a few patches now. A friend had thousands of transmutes saved in Rings of the Pale Order when the change went through. Lost them all.

Good to know! The practice didn't seem fair. Though I suppose increasing the cap on transmutes with U49 means fewer players will need to resort to re-creating non-mythic gear in order to bank up transmutes beyond the cap, especially when transmutes have been easier to get with Rewards of the Worthy dropping geodes so often.

LunaFlora · March 7

allochthons wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes.

Not any more. We haven't been able to decon mythics for a few patches now. A friend had thousands of transmutes saved in Rings of the Pale Order when the change went through. Lost them all.

when was it possible to deconstruct Mythics?

lillybit · March 7

LunaFlora wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes.

Not any more. We haven't been able to decon mythics for a few patches now. A friend had thousands of transmutes saved in Rings of the Pale Order when the change went through. Lost them all.

when was it possible to deconstruct Mythics?

Hasn't been as long as I can remember. I reconned Wild Hunt rings for all my alts when I first got it and knew back then that they were gone for good - was still worth it!

Maybe there was a short window right at the start?

allochthons · March 8

lillybit wrote: »

Maybe there was a short window right at the start?

Yeah, it was really early. I distinctly remember when my friend lost a ton of tel var saved in Rings of the Pale Order, which came out with the Markarth DLC.
This thread is from very soon after Markarth released, so we could decon mythics for maybe a patch, I think. I KNOW I tested deconning them successfully.

MoonPile · March 9

MidnightDuel wrote: »

MoonPile wrote: »

The housing Devs even remarked on the weird imbalance: after they made Purples buyable (and each zone has at least one high-drop-% purple), eventually unbuyable Blues and Greens became technically rarest. So I hope this is fixed eventually.

Digging up these helped me level 20+ characters to max Antiquities:

That a codex is required to purchase housing antiquites at all seems completely outdated, given that mythic gear doesn't need any codex to craft multiples as long as one of them has been completed. Moreover, if a player decides to deconstruct a mythic, he/she gets back transmutes. Whereas there is no way to deconstruct a furnishing antiquity or to sell it.

Yeah. I know a lot of players who've actively said they'd support Antiquities becoming unbound / tradeable.

I think that could be a good partial solution. Tons of players out there get these items who don't even care about them, it's just taking up space or they delete it. Meanwhile those of us who need 50+ for some idea would love to help them with that "problem" xD I'd much rather buy an item directly for 50k than a Map that has 99% chance to only waste my time and make me feel worse towards the game -_-

(But, I don't have a collector mentality at all / generally don't care about things being "special" or rare, I just want to use them. Maybe some collector types would be upset by such a change.)

And we said it already before, but most of the combat stuff has sort of "mercy systems" in place now. Most mythics have become so much easier to obtain than furnishings – not to mention FREE / cheap.

MidnightDuel · 7:43AM

MoonPile wrote: »

Yeah. I know a lot of players who've actively said they'd support Antiquities becoming unbound / tradeable.

I think that could be a good partial solution. Tons of players out there get these items who don't even care about them, it's just taking up space or they delete it. Meanwhile those of us who need 50+ for some idea would love to help them with that "problem" xD I'd much rather buy an item directly for 50k than a Map that has 99% chance to only waste my time and make me feel worse towards the game -_-

One of the challenges with quality-of-life improvements for housing is that ZOS treats housing as ESO's major "gold sink." Much like IRL housing can become a "money pit" for owners who may make costly improvements that rarely or never see a return on investment when selling a home, MMOs need to regularly take out value (i.e. in-game gold and other currencies) from the game where so much can be "earned" from playing the game. Without adequate gold-sinks, the virtual economy overheats with high inflation and high prices for the rarest items and resources. Furthermore, without removing large quantities of available currencies from the game, a constant wealth re-distribution ultimately creates an enormous imbalance, with a minority of super-wealthy players controlling a majority of the in-game wealth and resources.

Bound antiquities and other bound furnishings take gold out of the game while still giving players something of "value" for their expenditures. Tradeable antiquities wouldn't take gold out of play, but would just redistribute it.

Currently, gold sinks in ESO include:

Guild Trader Listing fees
Guild Fees paid for hiring weekly Traders
Character Transportation to locations without using a Wayshrine
Player House Purchases for in-game gold
Achievement Furnishing purchases (bound furnishings)
Bounties paid to Guards and/or Fences
Laundering fees paid to Outlaw Refuge Fences (often used to launder stolen furnishings before they can be used in a player's house or sold/traded to other players)
Armor Repair from Merchants for gold
Character Outfit style and dye costs (paid at an Outfit Station)
Cyrodiil's Golden Vendor bound gear purchases of Undaunted Monster head and shoulder pieces and legendary jewelry (sink for Gold and Alliance Points)
Imperial City merchants (sink for Tel Var currency and Imperial Fragments)
Undaunted Pledge Master Store Coffers and Skill Styles (sink for Undaunted Keys)
Stablemaster Character Mount Training Fees (effectively reduced with U49 changes)
Basic (bound) Companion Gear from Tailors, Leatherworkers, Armorers and Weaponsmiths
Leads for Antique (zone) Maps from Innkeepers
Recipes from Chefs and Brewers

Until recently, other gold sinks included:

Attribute and Skill re-specification
Vampire and Werewolf "Curse Cures"

Of course U49 took away the gold-sinks for re-specs and cures. Moreover, they were nuisance fees mostly paid by players whose focus is combat and related activities. At the same time the limits on Transmute Crystals was significantly increased, and the limit on Event Tickets completely removed with the conversion of that event currency to the new "Trade Bars."

A simple review of Guild Trader inventories makes it clear that most of the "listing fees" paid are for housing-related furnishings, furnishing plans, and crafting materials used to make furnishings. Subsequently, a large percentage of the weekly Guild Trader fees is derived from the selling of housing-related items to other players.

It's difficult and unpopular to add new gold-sinks to a game. Instead, developers find it much easier to introduce new currencies and place restrictions on their use. In the case of ESO, the elimination of some gold-sinks from combat-related activities means that housing-related activities account for a much larger percentage of the remaining gold-sinks.

When one looks at the in-game economics, artificial scarcity of housing-related items appears intentional. Hence the grind to acquire scarce resources and items related to them. So it should be no surprise that the only Solstice Treasure Map for sale in Wayrest as of this post is listed for 1 million gold.