Daily Login Rewards Update

Syldras · March 4

I'm personally glad the chores are gone - not because I ever felt the need to do them, but because I'm hoping for more game design relying on being interesting and meaningful to attract people now, instead of trying to keep people in game as long as possible through generic busywork. Not sure how likely that is, but that would be a design change that I'd appreciate a lot.

At the same time, I do wonder how the end of daily chores affects the player numbers and playtimes; and I'm feeling a bit wary about it, because I know how companies value their stats about these things. Which means if participation drops a lot, that might cause problems.

allochthons wrote: »

FOMO is a real addiction technique that game devs (and many other content creators) have used to do real harm to people. If you're not susceptible, that doesn't mean the effect is fake, or that the harm is not real. I am glad ZoS is listening to their players (and the psychologists who study us) with respect to daily logins and endeavors, to make their game healthier.

I fully agree that insulting other people is not a fair or friendly thing to do and should have no place on these forums. But I disagree with the idea of people being either "susceptible" or "unsusceptible" to manipulation (in the broader sense, which also includes marketing tactics), as if it was just an arbitrary matter of luck, or of how someone was born. That looks like an underestimation of human capabilities to me.

A human is luckily no mindless thrall jumping on the whims of some puppet master, but a living being with a brain and a certain intelligence (though the individual extent may admittedly vary from person to person). Being able to recognize and counter attempts of influencing is a thing that can (and should) be learnt. Raising kids doesn't only mean giving them clean clothes and putting food on the table, it also means teaching them how to reasonably interact with the world and how to avoid certain pitfalls. Or at least that's the common idea where I grew up, which might also be the reason I'm always astounded if I see marketing tricks being presented as some unavoidable trap and a danger that can only be held at bay by official bans or the figurative puppet master showing mercy and not using these techniques.

The thing is that the world is full of pitfalls and not everyone will always play nice. So learning how the tricks look like and how to avoid them is the way. To be clear: I'm absolutely not against establishing ethics, but I'm realistic enough to see that not everyone is or ever will be ethical. Marketing tactics exist since the first ads came up. It's unlikely they'll ever go away. So in the end, it becomes a question of self-responsibility.

wolfie1.0. · March 4

The thing i am having trouble understanding is the schedule. I dont see why March is basically a dead month.

And yes I understand that the golden pursuit is there.. but it just feels kinda empty to me.

spartaxoxo · March 4

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

There's a Reddit poll where the overwhelming majority said they were happy that it's gone.

chaz · March 5

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi Everyone. Before March begins, we wanted to provide an update on Daily Login Rewards. Starting March 1st, Daily Login Rewards will no longer be available and officially retired from ESO. The UI will remain visible (but empty) until the launch of Update 49 on March 9. This also means the Daily Login Reward web articles will be sunset as well.

Additionally, Weekly and Daily Endeavors will retire on March 2. Seals of Endeavor will remain a currency in-game and will be earnable through the Tamriel Tome starting on April 2. In the meantime, we’ll be offering a Golden Pursuit, starting on March 3, that allows you to continue earning Seals of Endeavor until the start of Season Zero on April 2.

The March Golden Pursuit is meant to ensure you don't miss out on Seals of Endeavor during this transition period between Weekly and Daily Endeavors sunsetting and the start of Season Zero. This Golden Pursuit is designed to deliver the same amount of Seals of Endeavor you would have received when completing Weekly and Daily Endeavors.

Thanks for your understanding, and we’ll share more details as we get closer to these updates.

Thank you, I kind of not logged after second week of February due to , there was only junk in that tab anyway. And also among other reasons, so I came back in March to see if anything good. It wasn't availble. So I tried again next day and today still nothing. Was about to post a whole new thread about it, but decided to check first, and , well here I am. Thanks. I'll look again after march 9th to see whats what.

shadoza · March 5

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

There's a Reddit poll where the overwhelming majority said they were happy that it's gone.

Reddit does not represent the majority. It is a group of like-minded people who all have the same demeanor. The poll should be here or it should be in game.

scrappy1342 · March 5

Syldras wrote: »

At the same time, I do wonder how the end of daily chores affects the player numbers and playtimes; and I'm feeling a bit wary about it, because I know how companies value their stats about these things. Which means if participation drops a lot, that might cause problems.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

The thing i am having trouble understanding is the schedule. I dont see why March is basically a dead month.

didn't wow just release an expac? i would think the population was going to drop with that anyways and most likely could be waived off with that as an excuse to the higher ups >.> could have even been a good reason to be light on events, etc. this month

allochthons · March 5

Syldras wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

FOMO is a real addiction technique that game devs (and many other content creators) have used to do real harm to people. If you're not susceptible, that doesn't mean the effect is fake, or that the harm is not real. I am glad ZoS is listening to their players (and the psychologists who study us) with respect to daily logins and endeavors, to make their game healthier.

I fully agree that insulting other people is not a fair or friendly thing to do and should have no place on these forums. But I disagree with the idea of people being either "susceptible" or "unsusceptible" to manipulation (in the broader sense, which also includes marketing tactics), as if it was just an arbitrary matter of luck, or of how someone was born. That looks like an underestimation of human capabilities to me.

I don't disagree with any of your post. I phrased it the way I did as a way to tiptoe around what I figured might become an explosive response. Someone using the verbiage that user was using is very likely to consider themselves not susceptible, so I was trying to preventively tone it down a bit.

I consider myself pretty well aware of most advertising tricks, including FOMO, but I do definitely still sometimes fall for it. Especially when stressed or depressed. Of course personal responsibility is important, but I have also seen a person fall for ESO's FOMO to the point of being banned from the game by a loved one. And I think encouraging ESO to be an ethical game with respect to their monetization is only a good thing.

DenverRalphy · March 5

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

There's a Reddit poll where the overwhelming majority said they were happy that it's gone.

Reddit does not represent the majority. It is a group of like-minded people who all have the same demeanor. The poll should be here or it should be in game.

Reddit is many many things. But a group of like minded people it is not. The only thing all redditors usually seem to have in common is the overwhelming need to disagree.

HeatherHawthorne · March 5

I agree with SummersetCitizen. I have read the website page post on this. Whilst I realise ZOS Studios is trying to find ways to make money to keep their ESO game alive, I do not feel this is the way to go. It’s a great idea to allow people to not have to do everything every day, as we do have lives, but I do disagree with the way they have done this. I did Daily Pursuits for the tokens purely for the mounts. I was not interested in new gear skins, emotes etc. just the mounts. On the old system, we could do the weekly and daily pursuits which never took me long and I could get the mounts for free. On this new system, the mounts are gated behind the paid for versions of the tome. I already pay the subscription, so now they want more money out of me? ZOS Studios are doing their seasons renewing every 3 months, so four seasons per year. As a subscriber, I only get one of these tomes or seasons as an inclusion in the subscription price after I have subscribed for a whole year, which is poor. So yes, ZOS Studios are taking an entirely free system and turning it into something to generate yet more money for themselves. As a subscriber, I feel we ought to get all the tiers as included with our subscription, always, making it essentially ‘free’ like it was on the old system. This new system will not encourage me to keep my subscription. I have a lot of the houses now, and have enjoyed the current content. Instead of creating more content for us to either buy, or get with our subscription to draw people, they are trying to draw people with a mostly paid for system? I do not think this is the right way to go. My life as a solo player on ESO now is log in, re-arrange the furniture in my many houses, run about on my mounts, and log out. Give us more new content, not more new money making grinds to benefit ZOS Studios.

ESO_player123 · March 5

HeatherHawthorne wrote: »

I agree with SummersetCitizen. I have read the website page post on this. Whilst I realise ZOS Studios is trying to find ways to make money to keep their ESO game alive, I do not feel this is the way to go. It’s a great idea to allow people to not have to do everything every day, as we do have lives, but I do disagree with the way they have done this. I did Daily Pursuits for the tokens purely for the mounts. I was not interested in new gear skins, emotes etc. just the mounts. On the old system, we could do the weekly and daily pursuits which never took me long and I could get the mounts for free. On this new system, the mounts are gated behind the paid for versions of the tome. I already pay the subscription, so now they want more money out of me? ZOS Studios are doing their seasons renewing every 3 months, so four seasons per year. As a subscriber, I only get one of these tomes or seasons as an inclusion in the subscription price after I have subscribed for a whole year, which is poor. So yes, ZOS Studios are taking an entirely free system and turning it into something to generate yet more money for themselves. As a subscriber, I feel we ought to get all the tiers as included with our subscription, always, making it essentially ‘free’ like it was on the old system. This new system will not encourage me to keep my subscription. I have a lot of the houses now, and have enjoyed the current content. Instead of creating more content for us to either buy, or get with our subscription to draw people, they are trying to draw people with a mostly paid for system? I do not think this is the right way to go. My life as a solo player on ESO now is log in, re-arrange the furniture in my many houses, run about on my mounts, and log out. Give us more new content, not more new money making grinds to benefit ZOS Studios.

Which free mount are you referring to? The ones from Crown crates the we were able to purchase with seals? If so, the seals are not going anywhere. You will be able to get them through the free tier of the Tamriel Tomes. So, you will be able to continue accumulating the seals and purchasing mounts from Crown crates as before.

Dojohoda · March 5

After a few days of this, I find that I prefer the new way to earn seals. I can see all the things to do for a month of seals and I have the option to do as many as I choose and if I cannot log in occasionally, no problem.

spartaxoxo · March 5

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

There's a Reddit poll where the overwhelming majority said they were happy that it's gone.

Reddit does not represent the majority. It is a group of like-minded people who all have the same demeanor. The poll should be here or it should be in game.

Okay there's one on the forums now too if you want to vote.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689348/are-you-a-fan-of-the-changes-coming-to-daily-rewards-or-did-you-want-it-to-stay-the-old-way#latest

twisttop138 · March 5

Martiandawn wrote: »

There is an old adage, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." ESO has over three million active users, with 150,000 to 200,000 online daily. If you were to poll those users, I am certain the overwhelming majority would have said they did not want the Daily Login Reward or the Daily Endeavors to go away. Most of them probably had no idea that was even something under discussion.

A relatively small but very vocal minority of the player base has been complaining about Daily Login Rewards and the Daily Endeavors for a while now. Apparently. I wasn't aware of those complaints. I don't pay much attention to such things; I just log in to play the game and have fun. I am certain that is true for a majority of the player base.

My personal preference is that the developers spend their time working on new zones, new story quests, and new gameplay mechanics rather than invest precious development time catering to the demands of a small number of players who were unhappy with the free stuff they were receiving.

Ultimately, developing new game content is far more conducive to the long-term health of ESO.

You may be surprised, but there's no way to tell what the majority wants or what they enjoy in the game. Talking to people online, in game and on discords, when talking about my concerns for this year's content and what was changing, I was extremely surprised. I heard so many replies of "we don't need zones or dungeons anymore. There's too many. Some were even mad we're getting a trial. So it's hard to gauge what people like or don't.

I'm of the opinion that daily log in rewards aren't needed and we're mostly trash. I would never let myself get stressed out by not getting endeavors or bottles of poison. But that's just my experience. Some people really had feelings around it. Hell some people are super stoked about the game getting a battle pass. As a fallout 76 player, I'll tell them be careful what you wish for. Though I do agree that content is more conducive to the health of the game, giving people the option to get their daily rewards throughout a season with battle pass currency hurts nobody. Though I will very much hope there's better stuff to buy than crown refreshing drinks.

twisttop138 · March 5

Syldras wrote: »

I'm personally glad the chores are gone - not because I ever felt the need to do them, but because I'm hoping for more game design relying on being interesting and meaningful to attract people now, instead of trying to keep people in game as long as possible through generic busywork. Not sure how likely that is, but that would be a design change that I'd appreciate a lot.

At the same time, I do wonder how the end of daily chores affects the player numbers and playtimes; and I'm feeling a bit wary about it, because I know how companies value their stats about these things. Which means if participation drops a lot, that might cause problems.

allochthons wrote: »

FOMO is a real addiction technique that game devs (and many other content creators) have used to do real harm to people. If you're not susceptible, that doesn't mean the effect is fake, or that the harm is not real. I am glad ZoS is listening to their players (and the psychologists who study us) with respect to daily logins and endeavors, to make their game healthier.

I fully agree that insulting other people is not a fair or friendly thing to do and should have no place on these forums. But I disagree with the idea of people being either "susceptible" or "unsusceptible" to manipulation (in the broader sense, which also includes marketing tactics), as if it was just an arbitrary matter of luck, or of how someone was born. That looks like an underestimation of human capabilities to me.

A human is luckily no mindless thrall jumping on the whims of some puppet master, but a living being with a brain and a certain intelligence (though the individual extent may admittedly vary from person to person). Being able to recognize and counter attempts of influencing is a thing that can (and should) be learnt. Raising kids doesn't only mean giving them clean clothes and putting food on the table, it also means teaching them how to reasonably interact with the world and how to avoid certain pitfalls. Or at least that's the common idea where I grew up, which might also be the reason I'm always astounded if I see marketing tricks being presented as some unavoidable trap and a danger that can only be held at bay by official bans or the figurative puppet master showing mercy and not using these techniques.

The thing is that the world is full of pitfalls and not everyone will always play nice. So learning how the tricks look like and how to avoid them is the way. To be clear: I'm absolutely not against establishing ethics, but I'm realistic enough to see that not everyone is or ever will be ethical. Marketing tactics exist since the first ads came up. It's unlikely they'll ever go away. So in the end, it becomes a question of self-responsibility.

I always enjoy reading your well thought out comments. I do, however, have to wonder if you're familiar with how a battle pass works. I don't say that as an insult, I've seen repeatedly on the forums lately people asking what that is. Every day and week there will be a list of busy work chores to earn a currency and levels in a pass. So for people that enjoy that sort of thing it will still be available in spades. There will still be plenty of: kill 10 flame atronochs. Run 3 random dungeons. Harvest 30 crafting nodes. Pick 5 locks. It's just now you can choose to pay for the pleasure if you want good stuff. I had concerns that ZOS will primarily focus on battle pass since it's the new revenue source and we'll see a decrease in things earnable in game, but we shall see. I'm willing to try it out.

As for dark practices in gaming. The poster you quoted makes a solid point. Gaming companies hire physiologists to tell them how to make game systems more addicting and how to condition people to log in more and spend more. You're right though, the trick is to try and recognize and not fall prey to things like this.

Arunei · March 5

Truly, if the only reason people had incentive to log in every day was for paltry rewards for 98% of the days...I don't quite get it. How would getting 25 Poisons or your hundredth exp scroll encourage you to log in but playing the game itself wouldn't? The only way it makes sense to me is if people were only logging in to get towards the "big" rewards and didn't care about each day's reward.

But the thing is you can still earn stuff for free and you can still look forward to earning those "big" rewards. It just won't be tied to having to log on for X number of days, you'll have time to decide what days you want to log on. You won't be forced to hop on for five seconds just to claim a reward even on days you don't want to. Because you won't risk missing out if you skip a few days. This gives people more leeway, more time.

Nothing is being taken away, I guess other than the ability to get things for literally no effort beyond logging in. But when was the last time we got something actually unique for a login reward? Genuinely I don't remember when the last time we got something like a Pet or Costume or Body Markings as the capstone reward but I feel like it was a few months ago at least? If people are genuinely upset over not being able to get stuff like Mount Training Scrolls, AP, TV, and the like for just logging in...eh. The stuff like AP and TV you got in such small amounts it would take ages to earn enough to get anything, Mount Training is getting reduced to a month since every stat will get trained at a time, etc.

I'm not trying to invalidate that other people might be upset I just sincerely don't get it because the stuff isn't being taken away, it just requires you to actually play the game. And if you needed the free stuff from login rewards as incentive to get on, rather than the game itself being encouragement...why is something you'll probably never use worth getting on for but playing the game isn't? Especially if you're only logging on to get the items but aren't actually staying ingame to use what you're getting if it is something you'd use (like the Mount Scrolls)?

Elvenheart · March 5

When they first introduced the daily and weekly endeavors, while they were talking about them but before they were actually in game, I remember both a lot of people expressing trepidations about them and the system in general, but also a lot of people were also looking forward to giving the system a try. I think in the end most people got on board with endeavors. Maybe that’s how it will be with Tomes once we get a chance to try it out on live for a while.

SilverBride · March 5

Elvenheart wrote: »

When they first introduced the daily and weekly endeavors, while they were talking about them but before they were actually in game, I remember both a lot of people expressing trepidations about them and the system in general, but also a lot of people were also looking forward to giving the system a try. I think in the end most people got on board with endeavors. Maybe that’s how it will be with Tomes once we get a chance to try it out on live for a while.

We didn't have to pay to get endeavors.

ESO_player123 · March 5

SilverBride wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

When they first introduced the daily and weekly endeavors, while they were talking about them but before they were actually in game, I remember both a lot of people expressing trepidations about them and the system in general, but also a lot of people were also looking forward to giving the system a try. I think in the end most people got on board with endeavors. Maybe that’s how it will be with Tomes once we get a chance to try it out on live for a while.

We didn't have to pay to get endeavors.

We still will be able to do the equivalent of them in the free tier of the tomes. Now, if the number of seals for the same period of time in the free tier will be lower than we could have gotten through old endeavors, then we definitely should consider it a downgrade. Until that is the case, I'm willing to hold my judgement.