How about players who dont care about objectives in BG ?

Xarc · March 3

How about players who dont care about objectives in BG ?

I mean, when it's a flag game, and you're alone on almost all flags while other dudes are fighting everywhere on the map, what do you think?

Knowing that to capture a flag, you must be in numerical superiority, that is to say that if you are alone against 2 players, you cannot do anything about it even if you do not die.
In the case of a player who survives the other two, the objective cannot be fulfilled simply because the others do not come to help you.

I see 3 possibilities for ZOS:
a) do nothing, stay like that
b) Reward the players on the flags (in any way, with points, bonuses during the game, I don't know?)
c) Sanction players who ignore several flags in a row (it can happen to not be in time on a flag, but when it's 5 times in a row I no longer believe in chance)

I'm rather positive as a guy, I think that we should rather reward than punish, in order to encourage. For example if we give a shield or weapon or speed bonus I don't know? That would be nice, what do you say?

Arboz · March 3

I see an option d) always offer Deathmatch as an additional and permanent type of BG

For me, it seems that many players who enjoy DM dont enjoy objectives, and vice versa.

Xarc · March 3

Why not
but in this case, permanent DM should not count for BG ranking.

frogthroat · March 3

As a casual PVP player, my best games have been like that. It's awesome when everyone else is playing deathmatch and I get an easy solo win.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

WerewolfMoonHunter · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

How about players who dont care about objectives in BG ?

I mean, when it's a flag game, and you're alone on almost all flags while other dudes are fighting everywhere on the map, what do you think?

Knowing that to capture a flag, you must be in numerical superiority, that is to say that if you are alone against 2 players, you cannot do anything about it even if you do not die.
In the case of a player who survives the other two, the objective cannot be fulfilled simply because the others do not come to help you.

I see 3 possibilities for ZOS:
a) do nothing, stay like that
b) Reward the players on the flags (in any way, with points, bonuses during the game, I don't know?)
c) Sanction players who ignore several flags in a row (it can happen to not be in time on a flag, but when it's 5 times in a row I no longer believe in chance)

I'm rather positive as a guy, I think that we should rather reward than punish, in order to encourage. For example if we give a shield or weapon or speed bonus I don't know? That would be nice, what do you say?

I see your point because I also exp. this kind of behavior in my games. Not to often but it happened. Issue is that I'm not sure how ZoS could fix it and to deep intervention into BG might not be to good for this branch of PvP

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

WerewolfMoonHunter wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

How about players who dont care about objectives in BG ?

I mean, when it's a flag game, and you're alone on almost all flags while other dudes are fighting everywhere on the map, what do you think?

Knowing that to capture a flag, you must be in numerical superiority, that is to say that if you are alone against 2 players, you cannot do anything about it even if you do not die.
In the case of a player who survives the other two, the objective cannot be fulfilled simply because the others do not come to help you.

I see 3 possibilities for ZOS:
a) do nothing, stay like that
b) Reward the players on the flags (in any way, with points, bonuses during the game, I don't know?)
c) Sanction players who ignore several flags in a row (it can happen to not be in time on a flag, but when it's 5 times in a row I no longer believe in chance)

I'm rather positive as a guy, I think that we should rather reward than punish, in order to encourage. For example if we give a shield or weapon or speed bonus I don't know? That would be nice, what do you say?

I see your point because I also exp. this kind of behavior in my games. Not to often but it happened. Issue is that I'm not sure how ZoS could fix it and to deep intervention into BG might not be to good for this branch of PvP

It doesnt need to be fixed. It's a BATTLEground. Engaging in battle is the point. See above on why this is key.

Arunei · March 3

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

frogthroat · March 3

Arunei wrote: »

For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

It's not always, not even that often, but when it happens it's beautiful when you can just stand alone at the flag and watch others have a massive brawl in the centre of the map.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Arunei wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

Killing

Is

THE

Objective

Again. Dead opponents can't take stuff.

Once you've killed all the other team and they stay in spawn, then go run to a flag.

Seriously. Not trying to be difficult but this is the single best strategy for consistent success in bgs.

frogthroat · March 3

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

Killing

Is

THE

Objective

Again. Dead opponents can't take stuff.

Once you've killed all the other team and they stay in spawn, then go run to a flag.

Seriously. Not trying to be difficult but this is the single best strategy for consistent success in bgs.

Yup. I agree. Concentrate on the killing.

Arunei · March 3

frogthroat wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

It's not always, not even that often, but when it happens it's beautiful when you can just stand alone at the flag and watch others have a massive brawl in the centre of the map.

Lol sounds like an extrovert's dream.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

Killing

Is

THE

Objective

Again. Dead opponents can't take stuff.

Once you've killed all the other team and they stay in spawn, then go run to a flag.

Seriously. Not trying to be difficult but this is the single best strategy for consistent success in bgs.

...why would they stay in spawn though? Wouldn't the other team, y'know, leave spawn to try and do the objective? Do entire teams really just throw matches like that after one wipe?

Xarc · March 3

kills count only in deathmatch, dude

barney2525 · March 3

Here's a thought

" Everyone do whatever they enjoy the most "

It will all come out in the wash

Xarc · March 3

@ZOS_Kevin
I sincerely think that a large number of players have no idea of the rules of the game regarding objective games, and that they just hit other players, when in doubt... And that, I think, is due to poor formatting of the interface.

We could imagine something more "explicit" than a drop-down menu where the average player doesn't necessarily go.

or

no queue buton, simply click on the box to launch the chosen type of game, with a small confirmation window obviously

Note that it's far from perfect it's just an example, there are errors, I did that quickly

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Arunei wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

It's not always, not even that often, but when it happens it's beautiful when you can just stand alone at the flag and watch others have a massive brawl in the centre of the map.

Lol sounds like an extrovert's dream.

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

Killing

Is

THE

Objective

Again. Dead opponents can't take stuff.

Once you've killed all the other team and they stay in spawn, then go run to a flag.

Seriously. Not trying to be difficult but this is the single best strategy for consistent success in bgs.

...why would they stay in spawn though? Wouldn't the other team, y'know, leave spawn to try and do the objective? Do entire teams really just throw matches like that after one wipe?

Yes. They would. So you keep killing them. That's how it works.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

kills count only in deathmatch, dude

Count? Please elaborate.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

frogthroat wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

You should be happy you have someone doing this.

I don't PvP but it seems to me the problem is focusing ONLY on killing and not bothering with literally any actual objective. If it isn't a DM game then killing other players should come as a result of playing the objective. For Capture the Flag, for example, killing other players should be a result of taking and holding their flags, NOT the flags being ignored entirely in favor of hunting down other players and only killing them for the sake of killing them.

Killing

Is

THE

Objective

Again. Dead opponents can't take stuff.

Once you've killed all the other team and they stay in spawn, then go run to a flag.

Seriously. Not trying to be difficult but this is the single best strategy for consistent success in bgs.

Yup. I agree. Concentrate on the killing.

Your team got 9 kills. Good job.

Xarc · March 3

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

kills count only in deathmatch, dude

Count? Please elaborate.

^ this
Dont need to argue 1hour,
the number of kills has no relation to victory. What really matters is the ability to take the flags/defend it
So yes, if you make the kills on the flag, to take the flag and defend it, then ok, at that point it counts. But staying the whole game and making 25kills without taking a single flag is useless, except in Deathmatch where the goal is to

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

kills count only in deathmatch, dude

Count? Please elaborate.

^ this
Dont need to argue 1hour,
the number of kills has no relation to victory. What really matters is the ability to take the flags/defend it
So yes, if you make the kills on the flag, to take the flag and defend it, then ok, at that point it counts. But staying the whole game and making 25kills without taking a single flag is useless, except in Deathmatch where the goal is to

It's not useless. I will restate so you can revisit when needed:

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

Dead opponents cant:

Take flags
Take relics
Kill you
Heal their team

Read this.in the context.of.your own words above about taking things.

Take care. I hope this has been enlightening.

Xarc · March 3

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

ok, tell me how kills count ? Did this with my healer.

In this situation the 4 orange did a lot of damage, and despite the fact that I brought a lot of heals, in my team we died a lot, but in the end we won by a large margin because these players didn't want to play the objective at all. I'm pretty sure they could have won if they had played the flag objective, it's a really good example to explain what I was saying at the beginning of the thread.
(and for your information there were 4 but one left the game just before the end)

frogthroat · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

ok, tell my how kills count ? just did this with my healer.

In this situation the 4 orange did a lot of damage, and despite the fact that I brought a lot of heals, in my team we died a lot, but in the end we won by a large margin because these players didn't want to play the objective at all. I'm pretty sure they could have won if they had played the flag objective, it's a really good example to explain what I was saying at the beginning of the thread.
(and for your information there were 4 but one left the game just before the end)

Ssssshhh... just let them do deathmatch on every game. Much, much easier to secure wins that way. Let them have fun, let me have ez wins.

Also, man, great score there.

Xarc · March 3

We come back to what we said at the beginning, I agree, a Permanent Deathmatch should exist, but which would not count for the ranking, or with a separate ranking.

and btw thx bro

CameraBeardThePirate · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

Knowing that to capture a flag, you must be in numerical superiority, that is to say that if you are alone against 2 players, you cannot do anything about it even if you do not die.

This is incorrect. You can do something about it: kill the other players. You can absolutely win a 1v2 in non-champion point settings if you're built correctly.

Estin · March 3

Arunei wrote: »

...why would they stay in spawn though? Wouldn't the other team, y'know, leave spawn to try and do the objective? Do entire teams really just throw matches like that after one wipe?

Yes.

2 Team BGs is an absolute nightmare when it comes to balance, and it's super easy to spawn camp the other team with a hand full of players on your team. If you wipe the other team in the first encounter, both teams know the match is going to be a spawn camp match, and the losing team will just stay in spawn while the winning team will have a couple of players do the objective and have the rest farm the losing team.

Estin · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

ok, tell my how kills count ? Did this with my healer.

In this situation the 4 orange did a lot of damage, and despite the fact that I brought a lot of heals, in my team we died a lot, but in the end we won by a large margin because these players didn't want to play the objective at all. I'm pretty sure they could have won if they had played the flag objective, it's a really good example to explain what I was saying at the beginning of the thread.
(and for your information there were 4 but one left the game just before the end)

This is more the case of you healing and preventing the other team from taking the flag. In crazy king for 4v4s, there's only 1 flag for most of the match, and whoever gets it first is usually guaranteed to win if they have a healer. The other team can't take the flag if your team is standing on it, and if you're doing a lot of healing to keep at least 1 person alive, the other team will never be able to take it. The other team has nothing else to do other than get kills because there's no other flag until 5 minutes has gone by, and by then your team will be within the 200-300 point range which means there's no chance for the other team to win even if they grabbed the other flag.

Xarc · March 3

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Knowing that to capture a flag, you must be in numerical superiority, that is to say that if you are alone against 2 players, you cannot do anything about it even if you do not die.

This is incorrect. You can do something about it: kill the other players. You can absolutely win a 1v2 in non-champion point settings if you're built correctly.

You are right, but only in theory.

In fact, what happens is that it depends on the MMR.
I noticed this on different characters, I think I play max mmr with one or two characters, and a lower mmr with other characters, and the game is really different depending on the type of mmr. At high level, players are good at damage, tanking or healing, or all three, but they play correctly and kill but on the flag, or on the way to the flag.

Besides, I suspect that some very good players voluntarily do not want to increase their MMR in order to continue playing against "average" players who are easier to kill.

Tra_Lalan · March 3

Killing doesnt matter if your team looses, because you have abandon it and didin't participate in doing objectives.

Doing objectives is the main objective of a BG (different for each type), killing is just a way to make sure you secure the objective/make it unavailable for enemy's team.

There is nothing impressive in having "milion kills zero deaths" in a lost match. (unless its death match).

Radiate77 · March 3

Yeah, we need a playlist for those of us who just want PvP. Deathmatch Weekend really solidified that.

Arunei · March 3

Estin wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

...why would they stay in spawn though? Wouldn't the other team, y'know, leave spawn to try and do the objective? Do entire teams really just throw matches like that after one wipe?

Yes.

2 Team BGs is an absolute nightmare when it comes to balance, and it's super easy to spawn camp the other team with a hand full of players on your team. If you wipe the other team in the first encounter, both teams know the match is going to be a spawn camp match, and the losing team will just stay in spawn while the winning team will have a couple of players do the objective and have the rest farm the losing team.

Wow, that sounds miserable x__x.

Thumbless_Bot · March 3

Xarc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Killing is always an objective. Correction, It is always THE MAIN objective. This is bgs 101.

ok, tell me how kills count ? Did this with my healer.

In this situation the 4 orange did a lot of damage, and despite the fact that I brought a lot of heals, in my team we died a lot, but in the end we won by a large margin because these players didn't want to play the objective at all. I'm pretty sure they could have won if they had played the flag objective, it's a really good example to explain what I was saying at the beginning of the thread.
(and for your information there were 4 but one left the game just before the end)

Ive explained it above several times. Take care.