All blue ever does in this camp is 3rd party fights between yellow and red, I’d imagine that’s a big factor in why DC has a low pop and consistently loses. Pugs on DC are almost nonexistent and yalls ball groups rarely add to the objective of the map. It’s been really boring lately fighting DC, they just stand outside of Nickel without sieging, like what is the point.. yalls best PvPers are always just trying to kill yellow pugs at Sej without owning Nik or bleaks. I would imagine if the die hard blue PvPers would actually siege and play the map, the pugs would get better and more and more would show up. But right now, they aren’t following the X’ers all the way to Sej from Rayles.

SneaK wrote: »

All blue ever does in this camp is 3rd party fights between yellow and red, I’d imagine that’s a big factor in why DC has a low pop and consistently loses. Pugs on DC are almost nonexistent and yalls ball groups rarely add to the objective of the map. It’s been really boring lately fighting DC, they just stand outside of Nickel without sieging, like what is the point.. yalls best PvPers are always just trying to kill yellow pugs at Sej without owning Nik or bleaks. I would imagine if the die hard blue PvPers would actually siege and play the map, the pugs would get better and more and more would show up. But right now, they aren’t following the X’ers all the way to Sej from Rayles.

Each server is different of course. Many guilds left DC on mine and many good players as well. I suspect it is because the only guy we have that runs groups much anymore has become toxic and abusive to others in zone chat and they were happy to change alliances so they could bag him.

SneaK wrote: »

All blue ever does in this camp is 3rd party fights between yellow and red, I’d imagine that’s a big factor in why DC has a low pop and consistently loses. Pugs on DC are almost nonexistent and yalls ball groups rarely add to the objective of the map. It’s been really boring lately fighting DC, they just stand outside of Nickel without sieging, like what is the point.. yalls best PvPers are always just trying to kill yellow pugs at Sej without owning Nik or bleaks. I would imagine if the die hard blue PvPers would actually siege and play the map, the pugs would get better and more and more would show up. But right now, they aren’t following the X’ers all the way to Sej from Rayles.

Yep happens a lot, we trying to defend our last keep and there's blues on the other side of map being useless. Not to mention that when we try to take a keep, out of 30 blue only 1 or 2 people are using siege the rest are leeching.

SneaK wrote: »

All blue ever does in this camp is 3rd party fights between yellow and red, I’d imagine that’s a big factor in why DC has a low pop and consistently loses. Pugs on DC are almost nonexistent and yalls ball groups rarely add to the objective of the map. It’s been really boring lately fighting DC, they just stand outside of Nickel without sieging, like what is the point.. yalls best PvPers are always just trying to kill yellow pugs at Sej without owning Nik or bleaks. I would imagine if the die hard blue PvPers would actually siege and play the map, the pugs would get better and more and more would show up. But right now, they aren’t following the X’ers all the way to Sej from Rayles.

Low population bonuses and low score bonuses both provide an increase to AP, which makes gaining AP from killing people (or just hitting people already engaged in fights) more lucrative.

Daggerfall is in such a sorry state I agree with OP something needs to be done.

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

DC has come third 5 campaigns in a row, simply because we don't have the population of AD and EP. Got on today and looked at the campaign and like usual AD and EP were at 3 bars population and DC was only 1, by the look of the score I think DC are going to lose this month as well. Anyway since you can't force people to play on DC maybe think about giving low population double siege damage or a special artifact weapon that only people on low pop can use? All I know is something needs to be done because joining DC is a guaranteed loss on Xbox NA.

I play Blue on Xbox NA, and my guild sometimes comes into Greyhost to PVP. I can tell you that the reason the population is lower and Blue is not competitive is that there is a lack of organized groups in there who know what they are doing, the people who are doing call outs often don't know what they are doing, and when someone else who does starts making call outs nobody listens because they're not a "local" or a "regular" in there. That's how you get Blues defending Chalamo as the last emp keep rather than planning our defenses such that we're defending last emp keep much closer to home. Because of this, Even when we are in there in numbers, there is zero incentive to play the map - we just play for fights.

On top of that there is a certain big name player in GH that doesn't have a clue as to what she's doing, but she's used her clout to control emp and run off very good PVP players, and as a result, there was an exodus of sorts of quality players from blue.

Lastly, From what I have seen, nobody in GH knows how to seige. Offensively, I often seen 5-6 blues seiging and 20 people standing around doing nothing. Defensively, you can call for a killbox, and half the people don't know what to do.

At least SOME of this is L2P stuff, but there seems to be a resistance to even learn how to do that. So we recruit those who are interested in upping their game, and we play for fights in GH. If we're going to help push a campaign, we'll help push BR.

So to improve GH competitiveness, at least SOME of that improvement will have to come from within Blue itself TBH. Outside of that, I've always thought that Cyrodil needs changes to scoring and to provide more than AP buffs to the team that is outnumbered to incentivize them to keep playing. It's just not fun to play night in and night out and get swarmed by overwhelming numbers, or get blown up because members of your own alliance don't know how to block through pulls.

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Winning every Campaign... that just isn't the point. DC is in general much easier to work with, players are more skilled and less reactionary, unlike AD and EP.

Speaking of AD and EP are very heavily dominated by guilds, especially AD. And for either of these factions, the way those Guilds look at it, if you're not specifically with them, then you're invisible to them and they are not very nice towards solo players, unlike DC. DC put personal victory over Campaign points.

Sometimes winning isn't everything.

Are you Xbox NA?

Ive historically heard people say things like this, Blue is more skilled blah blah blah, as a whole, blue right now in our campaign is nonexistent. And the average pug is just that, average. Every faction has standouts and if you play GH on Xbox NA you’d know the staple names aren’t all blue. There are several people I cannot stand fighting, but the common dominator is Null Arca and it’s not a blue only set.

I honestly think this mentality is what is hurting blue the most on Xbox, not everyone is some god tier 1vXer, humble yourselves and play the map for a campaign. Back in 2020 Blue was at its peak, why, cause it was full of humble pugs that wanted to win.

Question I have for you and the OP. So, why does Blue... have to change?

I would think, a better question might be, why won't AD/EP come over to Blue? That's the real problem. When you have these zergs with half the zerg just... sitting idle in the back, waiting to get fed like a bunch of hungry gators waiting to scoop up the meaty fragments of a crossing herd downstream... just hanging out and not caring.

You should be asking those folks to show some initiative, quit running around on the coat tails of those on the front lines actually contributing in the zerg. Actually wait, no ask them to stay and very quietly ask the ones trying to come over to Blue lol. Cause I tell ya what. We ain't gonna change fer them. But some of them could do everyone a favor and cross over to DC.

That goes for any server, any day of the week and any time of day.

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Winning every Campaign... that just isn't the point. DC is in general much easier to work with, players are more skilled and less reactionary, unlike AD and EP.

Speaking of AD and EP are very heavily dominated by guilds, especially AD. And for either of these factions, the way those Guilds look at it, if you're not specifically with them, then you're invisible to them and they are not very nice towards solo players, unlike DC. DC put personal victory over Campaign points.

Sometimes winning isn't everything.

Are you Xbox NA?

Ive historically heard people say things like this, Blue is more skilled blah blah blah, as a whole, blue right now in our campaign is nonexistent. And the average pug is just that, average. Every faction has standouts and if you play GH on Xbox NA you’d know the staple names aren’t all blue. There are several people I cannot stand fighting, but the common dominator is Null Arca and it’s not a blue only set.

I honestly think this mentality is what is hurting blue the most on Xbox, not everyone is some god tier 1vXer, humble yourselves and play the map for a campaign. Back in 2020 Blue was at its peak, why, cause it was full of humble pugs that wanted to win.

Question I have for you and the OP. So, why does Blue... have to change?

I would think, a better question might be, why won't AD/EP come over to Blue? That's the real problem. When you have these zergs with half the zerg just... sitting idle in the back, waiting to get fed like a bunch of hungry gators waiting to scoop up the meaty fragments of a crossing herd downstream... just hanging out and not caring.

You should be asking those folks to show some initiative, quit running around on the coat tails of those on the front lines actually contributing in the zerg. Actually wait, no ask them to stay and very quietly ask the ones trying to come over to Blue lol. Cause I tell ya what. We ain't gonna change fer them. But some of them could do everyone a favor and cross over to DC.

That goes for any server, any day of the week and any time of day.

I read this three times and I don’t really get what you’re saying…

AD/EP should come lead the pugs of DC? What?

Just what I said. In response to OP and yourself. Here is, perhaps, another more assertive way to put this. Stop blaming DC for having a low population when you have Guilds FULL of people who could cross faction and not logging in every time looking to just ride the AP Train. And yeah, as I'm sure you're well aware, there are several instances where DC is not the dominant faction, notably population wise, same as our discussion on here.

And if you can't understand that then I dunno what more to say. But I'm confident that there are others out there who know exactly what I mean. You're both assuming DC Is the problem when the problem could be you have too many per other factions who won't move on. Why should DC players have to change when other faction players won't.

Very simple and crystal-clear concept. Ask some others to change their Alliance, if they can lead then lead. But don't start new relationship by thinking you're like above the other guys. They're pugs and I'm a lovely AD person etc. Cause that's not what we need and that's why many of us, if the truth be told, are on DC/EP in the first place, to get away from that do as I say, not as I do mentality and the treacherous, selfish and loathsome Guilds who make example out of solos who don't swing their way.

We don't like them either and no help from them is ever needed. Just regular folks who want to keep trying, learn new things and can handle themselves in a calm, respectable way.

Vulkunne wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Winning every Campaign... that just isn't the point. DC is in general much easier to work with, players are more skilled and less reactionary, unlike AD and EP.

Speaking of AD and EP are very heavily dominated by guilds, especially AD. And for either of these factions, the way those Guilds look at it, if you're not specifically with them, then you're invisible to them and they are not very nice towards solo players, unlike DC. DC put personal victory over Campaign points.

Sometimes winning isn't everything.

Are you Xbox NA?

Ive historically heard people say things like this, Blue is more skilled blah blah blah, as a whole, blue right now in our campaign is nonexistent. And the average pug is just that, average. Every faction has standouts and if you play GH on Xbox NA you’d know the staple names aren’t all blue. There are several people I cannot stand fighting, but the common dominator is Null Arca and it’s not a blue only set.

I honestly think this mentality is what is hurting blue the most on Xbox, not everyone is some god tier 1vXer, humble yourselves and play the map for a campaign. Back in 2020 Blue was at its peak, why, cause it was full of humble pugs that wanted to win.

Question I have for you and the OP. So, why does Blue... have to change?

I would think, a better question might be, why won't AD/EP come over to Blue? That's the real problem. When you have these zergs with half the zerg just... sitting idle in the back, waiting to get fed like a bunch of hungry gators waiting to scoop up the meaty fragments of a crossing herd downstream... just hanging out and not caring.

You should be asking those folks to show some initiative, quit running around on the coat tails of those on the front lines actually contributing in the zerg. Actually wait, no ask them to stay and very quietly ask the ones trying to come over to Blue lol. Cause I tell ya what. We ain't gonna change fer them. But some of them could do everyone a favor and cross over to DC.

That goes for any server, any day of the week and any time of day.

I read this three times and I don’t really get what you’re saying…

AD/EP should come lead the pugs of DC? What?

Just what I said. In response to OP and yourself. Here is, perhaps, another more assertive way to put this. Stop blaming DC for having a low population when you have Guilds FULL of people who could cross faction and not logging in every time looking to just ride the AP Train. And yeah, as I'm sure you're well aware, there are several instances where DC is not the dominant faction, notably population wise, same as our discussion on here.

And if you can't understand that then I dunno what more to say. But I'm confident that there are others out there who know exactly what I mean. You're both assuming DC Is the problem when the problem could be you have too many per other factions who won't move on. Why should DC players have to change when other faction players won't.

Very simple and crystal-clear concept.

Pretty sure OP is blue…

And lmao, joining blue to try and rally the pugs to siege and take home keeps while the die hard blues go pitch tents at Sej, no thanks. And guilds do this already anyway but most don’t stay cause the mindset of a guild is to crown emps or win camps, and that is not a mindset blue currently shares.

Again, this is Xbox NA, no idea if that is your platform.

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure OP is blue…

And lmao, joining blue to try and rally the pugs to siege and take home keeps while the die hard blues go pitch tents at Sej, no thanks. And guilds do this already anyway but most don’t stay cause the mindset of a guild is to crown emps or win camps, and that is not a mindset blue currently shares.

Again, this is Xbox NA, no idea if that is your platform.

While I respect your difference of opinion, I feel you are missing the general formula I'm advancing here. It's not so much to cross over and as you put it in so many words, basically to boss bugs around or try and sort of force an agenda. To me, that's not real leadership although at times its part of it.

But no, as you have said last post, as I had said before that, that's not going to get us anywhere. A relationship with anyone, takes time to foster. Its not as simple as, 'do as I say and sweep the map! Emp my buddy you lemmings!!! get lost solo players who can think for themselves' I laugh. But that's what I'm saying, you must have personality to win people over. People need to see results before they become a Stakeholder. You know.

That's your difference right there. No, they don't care because no one has given them a reason to care. Why should I put my time in Emping uh 'Sal' or "Scott'. Do they care anything at all about what I'm doing. No. And the same Guild you do these favors for ends up publicly shaming you with a back stab because uh "Tuckers' Girlfriend doesn't like you. It happens alot and it happens for stupid reasons. This is why they don't care. And you say, 'if I go over there they won't change'. Well no. lol. I told you that much.

The Corporate Guild / Clan / Tribal mentality hasn't changed but you want a low pop of hustlers and basically the equivalent of part-time professional rastlers to stop dueling, running around rocks & towers, stop streaming to do what? 'Serve' someone else. It doesn't work that way. These two things are not the same and that's just fine.

SneaK wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Pretty sure OP is blue…

And lmao, joining blue to try and rally the pugs to siege and take home keeps while the die hard blues go pitch tents at Sej, no thanks. And guilds do this already anyway but most don’t stay cause the mindset of a guild is to crown emps or win camps, and that is not a mindset blue currently shares.

Again, this is Xbox NA, no idea if that is your platform.

While I respect your difference of opinion, I feel you are missing the general formula I'm advancing here. It's not so much to cross over and as you put it in so many words, basically to boss bugs around or try and sort of force an agenda. To me, that's not real leadership although at times its part of it.

But no, as you have said last post, as I had said before that, that's not going to get us anywhere. A relationship with anyone, takes time to foster. Its not as simple as, 'do as I say and sweep the map! Emp my buddy you lemmings!!! get lost solo players who can think for themselves' I laugh. But that's what I'm saying, you must have personality to win people over. People need to see results before they become a Stakeholder. You know.

That's your difference right there. No, they don't care because no one has given them a reason to care. Why should I put my time in Emping uh 'Sal' or "Scott'. Do they care anything at all about what I'm doing. No. And the same Guild you do these favors for ends up publicly shaming you with a back stab because uh "Tuckers' Girlfriend doesn't like you. It happens alot and it happens for stupid reasons. This is why they don't care. And you say, 'if I go over there they won't change'. Well no. lol. I told you that much.

The Corporate Guild / Clan / Tribal mentality hasn't changed but you want a low pop of hustlers and basically the equivalent of part-time professional rastlers to stop dueling, running around rocks & towers, stop streaming to do what? 'Serve' someone else. It doesn't work that way. These two things are not the same and that's just fine.

You seem to be off topic… OP is talking about Blues performance in GH on Xbox NA. They are not winning, and population is low which is a result of many things including not winning and the fact that their best PvPers don’t play the objective. And no I’m not asking for anything, blue can continue to lose I could care less, although Cyro is more fun when it’s a true 3way war.

PUG isn’t a bad word either btw.

Yep. All things I discussed in my replies. You have more issues going on there than just the ones that some of you want to discuss on here. Nothing will change until people on both sides of the equation change. Blue needs to be more map driven, the other two factions should consider a change of scenery.

There's not a thing wrong with saying that and it's all part of it. In other games like New World, this problem would have forced populations to move around, that worked until it didn't. There is no easy solution and because of that, there is no easy discussion. If you keep saying, 'well he's off topic' at what everyone is posting then we're never going to be able to talk about it and some problems need that conversation piece.

PUG is not a bad word, perhaps it's not always meant in a bad way, but it's not a nice word. It's not a word that I would describe towards anyone in polite conversation, and so I don't use it. But yes, that's just me, just like how I try to stay polite and professional to whomever I'm conversing with, regardless of the manner in which that courtesy gets returned.

As for the word PUG on any and all other mmos it literally stands for pick up group but on eso on xbox it's misused as a derogatory term for a single player all the time. People are clueless.

Blue doesn't have any ACTUAL groups that wanna control the map.
Ad has a few groups that play the map and push emp as does ep.

The only groups.... well group that blue has just wants to farm ap. It's not a population problem, it's a player problem in which the blues that are decent enough to play, don't care about the map. And the rest that do care, aren't good at the game tbh.

Velocious_Curse wrote: »

Blue doesn't have any ACTUAL groups that wanna control the map.
Ad has a few groups that play the map and push emp as does ep.

The only groups.... well group that blue has just wants to farm ap. It's not a population problem, it's a player problem in which the blues that are decent enough to play, don't care about the map. And the rest that do care, aren't good at the game tbh.

Blue does have groups that want to push/control the map. The problem is that there are too many uncoordinated masses doing their own thing - like going and taking Brindle and other empty keeps while everyone else is trying to get a D-Throne. It just doesn't work. There's no unity in DC, and because of that, it makes it dam near impossible to push and hold the map against superior numbers.

So instead of pushing/controlling map, the groups that DO know what they're doing just focus on winning the kill feed.

Radiate77 wrote: »

SuzieQBoston is still running around with her blue zerg so you guys aren’t out of the game yet.

Yeah, if it’s a pure population problem then having players like that is a huge plus. I’m scatterbrained, play half asleep, and never thought PVP on the big campaign would feel as fun as it did, until grouping up with her. I mean, I play a one bar toon shooting fighters guild crossbow, using siege weapons and often turning into a big wimpy werewolf for giggles. Not that effective, in the grand scheme of things. Still, she accepts the randomness of it all and continues to find and group with players like me.

Looking at the DC campaign from a bigger viewpoint, I agree with others that the population in that alliance seems smaller. Winning when outnumbered would be interesting. I fully admit I know I haven’t been a lot of help in that regard. I know I should build other toons and learn to actually play better. That’s maybe a goal I’ll set for myself to accomplish in the coming weeks. Can’t guarantee much, but since I do enjoy the friendly players I’ve grouped with, I want to be at least slightly more useful when I group up with them.