Tandor wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

I think there are addons hiding zone guild recruitments - you can detect guild invite link and ignore this message. And it is 100% possible to create an addon to ignore all incoming guild requests (including message on the center) and collect them somewhere else, so you could accept some if they were intentional (like if you asked friend to invite you).

It shouldn't be required that you install third party addons if you wish to avoid third party harassment.

I have no more desire to receive guild invites than I have to receive ToT or duel invites. The default UI allows me not to be inconvenienced by those, it should allow me similarly not to be inconvenienced by guild invites.

People advertising their Guilds in chat isn't harassment. The other person was saying you can use addons to block THOSE (No, Thank You! is one I believe that can do so), they weren't saying you should have to use an addon to avoid the actual invite spam. The only time people using chat to send ads is bad is if someone is spamming the ad every few seconds or minutes over and over and over again, because at that point it becomes spam.

scrappy1342 wrote: »

having a search function in guild finder (it is ABSOLUTELY MIND BOGGLING that this has never been put in...) would go a long way to help players looking for a guild.

nothing you do will keep ppl from spamming zone chat though. you can give them better search functions in the finder. you can give them their own recruitment channels. you could even find a way (someone mentioned there's an addon that does it) that prevents any message from showing up in zone chat with a guild link. ppl would still post there. they would just take the link out of it. it's like this in any game. personally, it doesn't bother me. i like to see what guilds are out there and what events they have going on (although this doesn't happen as much in eso as it does in other mmos). if i am having a conversation, they are easy enough to scroll past.

hiyde wrote: »

But what if the addon is targeting everything that moves and the user just needs to press "V" to deploy each invite? (I.e. someone just sits there and mashes "V" all day to send random invites as the auto-prompts come up). Is that OK?

just them acknowledging this is against the rules now is a huge step forward. it doesn't matter if it is completely automated or if the guy in the bushes has to keep pressing V over and over... if you get multiple invites, you can now report it and they will do something because both now fall under harrassment.

Scrolling past could be an issue because the script is long enough that a window adjustment might be needed to allow simple one line statements or questions to be included. This means I have to stop whatever I am doing and manipulate the chat window rather than glance at it.

If ZOS deems spamming guild invites in zone chat as against the rules, then there is a lot that can be done to end it.
There is an appointed location for searching for guilds and grouping for dungeons. Zone chat should not be that place.
If using addons to auto target players is against the rules, then using them to auto target the zone chat should also be against the rules.

Arunei wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

I think there are addons hiding zone guild recruitments - you can detect guild invite link and ignore this message. And it is 100% possible to create an addon to ignore all incoming guild requests (including message on the center) and collect them somewhere else, so you could accept some if they were intentional (like if you asked friend to invite you).

It shouldn't be required that you install third party addons if you wish to avoid third party harassment.

I have no more desire to receive guild invites than I have to receive ToT or duel invites. The default UI allows me not to be inconvenienced by those, it should allow me similarly not to be inconvenienced by guild invites.

People advertising their Guilds in chat isn't harassment. The other person was saying you can use addons to block THOSE (No, Thank You! is one I believe that can do so), they weren't saying you should have to use an addon to avoid the actual invite spam. The only time people using chat to send ads is bad is if someone is spamming the ad every few seconds or minutes over and over and over again, because at that point it becomes spam.

Guild recruitment should have its own channel for public chat, as should trading. Spamming guild recruitment is very common in MMOs. It's one of the reasons why I turn off chat channels in MMOs these days, they're an unnecessary distraction for me. However, avoiding any form of harassment including spamming by guilds or traders shouldn't need addons to get round it.

Guild advertisements are not spamming guild invites. Invites are sent to individual players and require a reply. Guild advertisements don't and are only giving information about their guild to the public.

I offered a solution for being able to not see guild advertisements in the chat window, but only as a quality of life feature, not because it's harassment.

hiyde wrote: »

While I agree that the issue being raised in this thread is far more serious than zone advertisments, I also get while people find them annoying...and I say this as GM of a guild that has done zone chat recruiting (as sparingly as possible) since launch. Zone recruiting WORKS, really well (especially for new guilds and trade guilds) or guilds wouldn't be doing it.

A lot of solid suggestions have been made to improve recruiting / alleviate the annoyance:

- Add a "Guild Recruiting" channel that can be toggled off like any other channel and then make guild recruiting advertisments against the TOS in other public channels. Honestly, I'd rather only people interested in joining a guild see those zone chat messages.

- Add an "Apply to this guild" button at kiosks. (I know AGS adds the "I" icon but I don't think base game has that?)

- With the upcoming Guild Tag display system, add "About Guild" choice to the player interaction wheel if the guild has an active application posted.

Improve the Guild Finder in ways like:
- Adding pagination so people can view all guilds that match the search filter instead of a random limited selection.
- A search box that allows for searches by guild name and keywords.

Yeah I wasn't trying to say spam in zone chat isn't worth addressing, just making the point that it might get lost when mingled with a different issue here.

Yours are all good suggestions imo. Except I'm not sure a "recruitment channel" would work to take guild ads out of regular zone chat - people are going to tend to post where they get the most visibility, or they won't know the rules and will do it unintentionally, or someone might ask about guilds in zone chat and get responses... and then I'm *really* not sure we want zos moderating it so heavily that merely posting something in a public chat that annoys another player can be an actionable offense. I honestly find like 95% of what I see in zone chat to be annoying or spammy, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to talk to each other in public chat.

(I'm also not sure zos *can* take on that level of moderation where specific topics are restricted to specific channels - it's often hard enough to get them to do anything about blatant spam that violates the ToS, like the gold seller website ads from burner accounts that always come up on PC/NA chat).

Another idea I've thought about before could be a guild recruitment "board" or similar where guilds that are actively recruiting can post ads that remain up for a limited amount of time and can be browsed and sorted by players. Since part of the problem with the guild finder, imo, is that it can often display old information from guilds that are inactive or may not really be looking for more members currently.

(For example, the Mournhold trading guild I used to be in has been pretty much dead for a while now and only occasionally gets a trader in less 'premium' locations, but their info still comes up in guild finder saying they're actively recruiting and have a trader in Mourn and with a list of guild activities that haven't been run in like a year now).

I would like to point out that, for those who do not want to see guilds advertising in Zone chat can simply go into the chat tab and uncheck zone chat... mine has been unchecked for years, it works really well and helps my attitude.

I would also point out that this will not stop guild invites, desired or not.

Deserrick wrote: »

"DenverRalphy wrote: »

Players will just post to zone chat anyway, because they know a significant percentage of players would have any guild recruitment channel toggled off.

Then that can be reported as spam and as working around a block.

That's a bit heavy handed in my opinion. Advertising guild recruitment in a public channel should not be considered spam. There's an ignore function for a reason. Punishing regular players because they post a guild invite is a bit out of line.

Not everything posted to zone chat needs to be something every player is interested in reading.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

"DenverRalphy wrote: »

Players will just post to zone chat anyway, because they know a significant percentage of players would have any guild recruitment channel toggled off.

Then that can be reported as spam and as working around a block.

That's a bit heavy handed in my opinion. Advertising guild recruitment in a public channel should not be considered spam. There's an ignore function for a reason. Punishing regular players because they post a guild invite is a bit out of line.

Not everything posted to zone chat needs to be something every player is interested in reading.

If it’s being done because they know the actual guild recruitment channel is blocked and they are trying to work around that, I do not think it would be heavy handed to consider that spam.

Alternatively, to correct for honest mistakes, messages containing guild links could be filtered out of zone chat.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

"DenverRalphy wrote: »

Players will just post to zone chat anyway, because they know a significant percentage of players would have any guild recruitment channel toggled off.

Then that can be reported as spam and as working around a block.

That's a bit heavy handed in my opinion. Advertising guild recruitment in a public channel should not be considered spam. There's an ignore function for a reason. Punishing regular players because they post a guild invite is a bit out of line.

Not everything posted to zone chat needs to be something every player is interested in reading.

I'm going to need more ignore then. The ignore function is very limited.

Players can auto-decline duel invites.
Players cannot auto-decline guild invites.

Simple issue.
Simple solution.

Add an optional menu setting to enable the ability to auto-decline unwanted guild invites.
Easy.

Tandor wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

imPDA wrote: »

I think there are addons hiding zone guild recruitments - you can detect guild invite link and ignore this message. And it is 100% possible to create an addon to ignore all incoming guild requests (including message on the center) and collect them somewhere else, so you could accept some if they were intentional (like if you asked friend to invite you).

It shouldn't be required that you install third party addons if you wish to avoid third party harassment.

I have no more desire to receive guild invites than I have to receive ToT or duel invites. The default UI allows me not to be inconvenienced by those, it should allow me similarly not to be inconvenienced by guild invites.

People advertising their Guilds in chat isn't harassment. The other person was saying you can use addons to block THOSE (No, Thank You! is one I believe that can do so), they weren't saying you should have to use an addon to avoid the actual invite spam. The only time people using chat to send ads is bad is if someone is spamming the ad every few seconds or minutes over and over and over again, because at that point it becomes spam.

Guild recruitment should have its own channel for public chat, as should trading. Spamming guild recruitment is very common in MMOs. It's one of the reasons why I turn off chat channels in MMOs these days, they're an unnecessary distraction for me. However, avoiding any form of harassment including spamming by guilds or traders shouldn't need addons to get round it.

I mean you could add the channels, but how would you keep people out of the main zone chat? Or force them into it?

Consider the forums here. Most people post things in the general section because that's where people frequent. There are employees that moderate the forums to make sure things get posted where they should, but thats probably not feasible in game.