Removing Map Based Leads?

Thoriorz · February 17

Hi, after a break of several months, I've returned to playing ESO. What I enjoyed most (and still enjoy) is completing the Antiquities codex, so I've returned to this activity. I last played when the first part of Solstice was added and completed the codex for all Antiquities to 3/3, except for the Leads from treasure map, where I was at 1/3 or 2/3.

Now I've returned to ESO and found that there is an event that makes a solid number of treasure maps available on the market, so I started buying maps from the market and opening treasure map chests. Currently, I am missing 3 Leads and I have a 3/3 codex on all things from treasure maps, and I have spent around 13 million gold (I buy maps for up to 30k/piece, sometimes you can buy them for less, so the average is 25k/ map, I would say), so it's easy to calculate how many maps I've bought so far, and as I said, I still need 3 Leads to complete everything to 3/3, so... I was lucky to return to ESO during this event...

It's similar to when I was doing Leads from treasure maps in West Weald, where I also needed several hundred. And when I was doing the codex at Apocrypha Well, I almost gave up until finally the pan tamriel event came along, where was the bonus that chance of dropping Leads from treasure maps were increased, so thanks to that I got it to 3/3.

Personally, I'm not against Leads being in treasure maps, but either reduce the number of them in treasure maps or increase the chance of them dropping on the second and third codex entries. Because you need to open hundreds of chests to complete the codex and considering that treasure maps aren't exactly something you can farm specifically (not counting IA...), this is something the devs should definitely take a closer look at.

MidnightDuel · February 17

MoonPile wrote: »

Why do we – the players who do practically all the types of content, just to get our items for the gameplay we actually most want to do – have to be stretched so far? Geez it's tiring.

It comes down to three things:

Housing players are less vocal outside our guilds and tight-knit player groups. "Housers" are happy to build in our houses silently and solitarily, only to share our creativity with friends in-game when we've finished. We're less likely to form angry mobs or pick up pitch forks and flaming torches. So, in general, we housing players are seldom seen posting on forums, reddit, etc. to air our concerns and justified grievances. Such players are also more likely to quietly quit playing ESO altogether than to openly and blatantly burn bridges on their way to play Guild Wars 2, WoW Midnight, or Pax Dei.
There are relatively few content creators/influencers that have a focus on housing. While these topics are discussed in Discord servers or on Twitch streams, those streams often have fewer viewers than streams that focus on PvP, trials, dungeons, etc. Whereas YouTube has countless videos criticizing the latest combat changes, Housing videos generally are positive in nature and avoid conflict by highlighting player creations or showcasing the latest houses and furnishings in the most positive light possible. In short, Housing voices are drowned-out by out-sized voices on social media.
Historically, MMOs have been games known for their "grind." When a game has few and infrequent updates, developers believe they need to extend the content through artificial means, including low drop rates, resource scarcity, and difficult content. In other words, grind is designed to keep players playing (and paying) longer for the same content and rewards. With the introduction of transmuting (and recreating) gear, stickerbook collection, and set-item curation, the grind for combat related rewards in ESO has been significantly reduced. Even the outfit style system has gotten easier, and now cheaper with U49 when Outfit slots become account-wide. For ESO to maintain its status as an MMO, the "grind" had to go somewhere and that easy target was housing, specifically double-locked furnishings from a variety of sources, including scarce Treasure Maps.

The Elder Scrolls Online is a mature MMO with many thousands of hours of game play and endless repeatability. The is no need for artificial grind to keep players' attention. To the contrary, with eleven years of regular, quarterly updates, there is ample content to keep players engaged indefinitely.

The grind we saw during the Writing Wall Event last year angered and infuriated players like nothing else in the history of ESO. I've lost count of the number of friends who've permanently stopped playing ESO as a result of the disastrous 2025 content. Even at 75% off the content pass, players refuse to buy or play content that was so poorly executed and plagued with endless bugs and unnecessary barriers. Despite most of the Solstice "bugs" have been "fixed," players refused to go back to the Writhing Fortress or pay any attention to the Solstice Siege Camps. It should be a clear message to ZOS that artificial grind is unwelcome in a mature MMO like ESO. It's also time housing saw the same type of positive change that has already been given to reduce the grind in other parts of the game.

MidnightDuel · February 17

Thoriorz wrote: »

Hi, after a break of several months, I've returned to playing ESO. What I enjoyed most (and still enjoy) is completing the Antiquities codex, so I've returned to this activity. I last played when the first part of Solstice was added and completed the codex for all Antiquities to 3/3, except for the Leads from treasure map, where I was at 1/3 or 2/3.

Now I've returned to ESO and found that there is an event that makes a solid number of treasure maps available on the market, so I started buying maps from the market and opening treasure map chests. Currently, I am missing 3 Leads and I have a 3/3 codex on all things from treasure maps, and I have spent around 13 million gold (I buy maps for up to 30k/piece, sometimes you can buy them for less, so the average is 25k/ map, I would say), so it's easy to calculate how many maps I've bought so far, and as I said, I still need 3 Leads to complete everything to 3/3, so... I was lucky to return to ESO during this event...

It's similar to when I was doing Leads from treasure maps in West Weald, where I also needed several hundred. And when I was doing the codex at Apocrypha Well, I almost gave up until finally the pan tamriel event came along, where was the bonus that chance of dropping Leads from treasure maps were increased, so thanks to that I got it to 3/3.

Personally, I'm not against Leads being in treasure maps, but either reduce the number of them in treasure maps or increase the chance of them dropping on the second and third codex entries. Because you need to open hundreds of chests to complete the codex and considering that treasure maps aren't exactly something you can farm specifically (not counting IA...), this is something the devs should definitely take a closer look at.

Welcome back @Thoriorz ! May you have better luck than the rest of us with leads from maps!

Emeratis · February 17

I've done 150+ maps this event to try to get my last map lead in the Telvanni Peninsula and all I have to show for it is a bunch of wasted time and gold. Got five Solstice maps this event and only gotten a lead out of one. I still am not getting drops out of West Weald maps despite still missing first codex entries on leads there. This really needs to change...

MoonPile · February 17

MidnightDuel wrote: »

...
The Elder Scrolls Online is a mature MMO with many thousands of hours of game play and endless repeatability. The is no need for artificial grind to keep players' attention. To the contrary, with eleven years of regular, quarterly updates, there is ample content to keep players engaged indefinitely.

This.

If I could, I would send this screenshot as in-game Feedback to the "That's Awesome!" category: I'm having a lot of fun during this event, killing a boss that has a GOOD lead drop rate on an item I love, while getting extra goodies in Mara parcels – now on both of my accounts thanks to the sale!

↑ That is a great thing! I'm way, WAY more likely to return to content to get stuff I like if I know I actually have a good chance of getting it.

Conversely, I'm not doing Solstice Maps at all. (Ok, I tried ONE or maybe 2 free ones since my tests ended in September: got nothing and one item 1/3, as expected.) I'm also not going back to S. Elsweyr for the Moon-Blessed pool (though I'd love more of those "for free") because of what a hassle that thing was. Devs, why not keep content evergreen via rewarding drops, instead of tiring us out so badly that we never want to return? A little grind is ok if it's actually rewarding.
.

Apollosipod · February 18

I still have a few mythic items (specifically one requiring Alik'r maps) that haven't dropped for me. So it's been actual years and who knows how many maps without a lead drop. It's not fun.

MidnightDuel · February 18

Emeratis wrote: »

I've done 150+ maps this event to try to get my last map lead in the Telvanni Peninsula and all I have to show for it is a bunch of wasted time and gold. Got five Solstice maps this event and only gotten a lead out of one. I still am not getting drops out of West Weald maps despite still missing first codex entries on leads there. This really needs to change...

Unfortunately, Necrom was where this whole double-locked Antiquities Leads from Treasure Maps started. Before then, maps only had leads for motifs, which dropped regularly and there were plenty of maps to keep collectors happy. While Blackwood, The Deadlands, and High Isle maps limited the supply of other motifs, a lucrative player trade kept players with enough gold supplied with the unbound motifs.

The leads for the mushroom book and the three-part Apocrypha Well have been among the hardest to get. Things only got worse with West Weald and are now untenable with Solstice. Completely agree that "This really needs to change" now!

MoonPile wrote: »

I'm having a lot of fun during this event, killing a boss that has a GOOD lead drop rate on an item I love, while getting extra goodies in Mara parcels – now on both of my accounts thanks to the sale!

Congrats on the Gazebo leads @MoonPile !! Still a grind, but without the hopelessness of map leads.

MidnightDuel · February 18

Apollosipod wrote: »

I still have a few mythic items (specifically one requiring Alik'r maps) that haven't dropped for me. So it's been actual years and who knows how many maps without a lead drop. It's not fun.

What mythic lead are you looking for in the Alik'r, @Apollosipod ? "Singersteel Clasp" for the Lefthander's Aegis Belt? I'm 99.9% sure that lead drops from any overland Treasure Chest in Alik'r Desert and not from Treasure Maps. Although if you're on PC/NA, I'd be happy to send you Alik'r maps or show you my chest farm run.

I had a few mythic leeds that took a long time to drop too. I still hate DSA and the years-long hunt for "Sturdy Silver Prongs" to complete the Death Dealer's Fete mythic. When I finally got that lead, it showed up at the Merchant in Infinite Archive for sale the next week.

While mythic leads drop from treasure chests, I'm not aware of any that require a zone treasure map for the lead.

cozmic72 · February 18

On PS I have multiple Solstice TM IV that I can’t dig because the dirt pile doesn’t show. Frustrating.

MidnightDuel · February 18

cozmic72 wrote: »

On PS I have multiple Solstice TM IV that I can’t dig because the dirt pile doesn’t show. Frustrating.

Is that a known bug on PS?

If I recall correctly, Solstice Treasure Map IV is closest to the Xor-Hist Wayshrine, correct? If so, it is up on the top of the cliff, and it takes a few seconds once you're there for the dig site to show. Unfortunately, one has to go the long way around, but the trip back to the wayshrine can be faster.

cozmic72 · February 18

MidnightDuel wrote: »

cozmic72 wrote: »

On PS I have multiple Solstice TM IV that I can’t dig because the dirt pile doesn’t show. Frustrating.

Is that a known bug on PS?

If I recall correctly, Solstice Treasure Map IV is closest to the Xor-Hist Wayshrine, correct? If so, it is up on the top of the cliff, and it takes a few seconds once you're there for the dig site to show. Unfortunately, one has to go the long way around, but the trip back to the wayshrine can be faster.

I’ve submitted a bug report. I know where it’s located but nothing there when I go.

MidnightDuel · February 18

cozmic72 wrote: »

I’ve submitted a bug report. I know where it’s located but nothing there when I go.

Hopefully, it will get fixed soon. I understand the frustration. Had several Blackwood maps that I couldn't dig up for the longest time.

Thoriorz · February 18

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Thoriorz wrote: »

Hi, after a break of several months, I've returned to playing ESO. What I enjoyed most (and still enjoy) is completing the Antiquities codex, so I've returned to this activity. I last played when the first part of Solstice was added and completed the codex for all Antiquities to 3/3, except for the Leads from treasure map, where I was at 1/3 or 2/3.

Now I've returned to ESO and found that there is an event that makes a solid number of treasure maps available on the market, so I started buying maps from the market and opening treasure map chests. Currently, I am missing 3 Leads and I have a 3/3 codex on all things from treasure maps, and I have spent around 13 million gold (I buy maps for up to 30k/piece, sometimes you can buy them for less, so the average is 25k/ map, I would say), so it's easy to calculate how many maps I've bought so far, and as I said, I still need 3 Leads to complete everything to 3/3, so... I was lucky to return to ESO during this event...

It's similar to when I was doing Leads from treasure maps in West Weald, where I also needed several hundred. And when I was doing the codex at Apocrypha Well, I almost gave up until finally the pan tamriel event came along, where was the bonus that chance of dropping Leads from treasure maps were increased, so thanks to that I got it to 3/3.

Personally, I'm not against Leads being in treasure maps, but either reduce the number of them in treasure maps or increase the chance of them dropping on the second and third codex entries. Because you need to open hundreds of chests to complete the codex and considering that treasure maps aren't exactly something you can farm specifically (not counting IA...), this is something the devs should definitely take a closer look at.

Welcome back @Thoriorz ! May you have better luck than the rest of us with leads from maps!

Hey, well, I guess I'm in the same boat as everyone else. Yesterday, when I wrote my comment, I was missing 3 leads, and after opening about 40 maps, I got one lead drop.
Today, I opened just over 60 maps and, unsurprisingly, exactly as expected, 0 lead drops... So I guess luck is not on my side.

Unfortunately, I'm at work today, but tomorrow is my day off, so I hope luck will smile on me and that there will still be maps available at the market.

katanagirl1 · February 18

Interesting that you cited the grind for the Writhing Wall as something that drove players away.

That was nothing like the grind for these furnishing leads. It was long and boring, but it did have an end to it.

Apollosipod · February 18

MidnightDuel wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

I still have a few mythic items (specifically one requiring Alik'r maps) that haven't dropped for me. So it's been actual years and who knows how many maps without a lead drop. It's not fun.

What mythic lead are you looking for in the Alik'r, @Apollosipod ? "Singersteel Clasp" for the Lefthander's Aegis Belt? I'm 99.9% sure that lead drops from any overland Treasure Chest in Alik'r Desert and not from Treasure Maps. Although if you're on PC/NA, I'd be happy to send you Alik'r maps or show you my chest farm run.

I had a few mythic leeds that took a long time to drop too. I still hate DSA and the years-long hunt for "Sturdy Silver Prongs" to complete the Death Dealer's Fete mythic. When I finally got that lead, it showed up at the Merchant in Infinite Archive for sale the next week.

While mythic leads drop from treasure chests, I'm not aware of any that require a zone treasure map for the lead.

That certainly is a relief and I appreciate the offer (unfortunately, I'm on PlayStation)! Though I've still been getting the regular overland chests too with no luck! That's exactly the lead I can't get too. Hell, I don't even want the item itself, just the achievement lol.

The same thing happened to me with the Death Dealer's Fete lead!!! I feel your pain. That one was agony. My friend who never even hit champion level and has stopped playing did DSA and got it his first try too lol.

MidnightDuel · February 19

Apollosipod wrote: »

That certainly is a relief and I appreciate the offer (unfortunately, I'm on PlayStation)! Though I've still been getting the regular overland chests too with no luck! That's exactly the lead I can't get too. Hell, I don't even want the item itself, just the achievement lol.

All Antiquity drops are governed by RNG, but at least you don't have to find/buy maps for Alik'r for that mythic lead. Overland chest re-spawn at a good rate, so finding a path or two with several chests and doing a few loops it should drop for you.

Silaf · February 19

I hope someone from ZOS will notice this feedback.

BetweenMidgets · February 19

Housing and PVP were the only things keeping me in the game. I am betting you all can guess how much my playtime has been reduced.

I only read the first page (of the currently four pages) but I can say I agree with the folks there. RNG leads are bad. Furnishing leads being gated behind RNG = bad. Furnishings from leads being bound = bad. Furnishings from leads requiring 3 codex = bad. Its just an awful system.

Just read Jessica's comment. Glad to see that after what... 3 years of us complaining, tagging employees, and asking for some sort of relief from this circle of hell.. NOW that information is being passed along. At least now we know.

MoonPile · February 19

Silaf wrote: »

I hope someone from ZOS will notice this feedback.

They know ✋ (lol)

But no, seriously, I'd spoken to the Housing team about it directly, and separately, Jessica answered here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8424683/#Comment_8424683

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all! Just wanted to let you know we see your feedback here and have passed it along, for future quality-of-life improvements consideration.

P.S.

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

Housing and PVP were the only things keeping me in the game. I am betting you all can guess how much my playtime has been reduced...I only read the first page (of the currently four pages).

@BetweenMidgets you may not have seen our survey then, but given that your game time has been reduced – please take it:
(I know others who actually quit or left temporarily. But we're not going to see many answers like that, since people who left are also unlikely to see or want to answer surveys.)

The Real Endgame (a large ESO Housing community on Discord – https://discord.gg/8A9XByfhxV ) is hosting a survey about Map-exclusive Antiquities. We're seeking player input on Treasure Map Leads for Antiquity furnishings from a housing perspective. Responses will be shared with the Devs. (The sent data will be anonymized.)

Please come take the quick survey and share your map data:
⭐ https://forms.gle/Yx4D6gqzKf4Lzvc47

And feel free to share with other housers who'd be interested in improving this system for all players!

For reference, here's info + player data I've compiled from my own testing and this thread:
https://moonpile.tumblr.com/post/808642600457338880/info-treasure-map-antiquities-leads-02-2026

MidnightDuel · February 24

More Solstice Treasure Maps are available this week from Imperial City Tel Var Merchant, if anyone has an excess of that currency. LOL

Personally, I'd rather spend my Tel Var on actual furnishings from IC instead of a super-low chance at a lead.

onyxorb · 1:41AM

MidnightDuel wrote: »

More Solstice Treasure Maps are available this week from Imperial City Tel Var Merchant, if anyone has an excess of that currency. LOL

Personally, I'd rather spend my Tel Var on actual furnishings from IC instead of a super-low chance at a lead.

If they swapped the map with an actual furnishing lead, I'd pay 6k telvar for sure.
Might actually have a reason to go to IC.

MidnightDuel · 3:46AM

onyxorb wrote: »

MidnightDuel wrote: »

More Solstice Treasure Maps are available this week from Imperial City Tel Var Merchant, if anyone has an excess of that currency. LOL

Personally, I'd rather spend my Tel Var on actual furnishings from IC instead of a super-low chance at a lead.

If they swapped the map with an actual furnishing lead, I'd pay 6k telvar for sure.
Might actually have a reason to go to IC.

The two leads from IC are always for mythic gear (never for furnishings) and cost 25K Tel Var. Once again, this demonstrates the inequality of lead sources between mythic gear and Antiquity furnishings. 6K for a map with almost no chance of a lead vs. 25K for guaranteed mythic lead that never needs to be farmed again because of the transmute/reconstruction features.

Elvenheart · 3:57AM

It’s simply dreadful how long the list is of leads in the Solstice treasure maps. It’s the opposite of fun.

MidnightDuel · 3:59AM

By the way, the inequity between leads sources isn't just restricted to treasure maps. Just farmed a source that has the chance to drop an Antiquity furnishing lead and/or a lead for a mythic. Got the mythic lead on the first try, but it took several more tries on additional characters before the furnishing lead dropped. It was the first lead ever for both leads, but RNG certainly favored the mythic gear piece.

jaekobcaed · 10:55AM

I'm not against changing the RNG aspect of the lead farming but I also don't want to make those objects obtainable through other means. I like that there are ways to really reward players for exploring, especially considering how scrying/excavating is a fun, relaxing way to explore and enjoy the game without combat.

Emeratis · 11:13AM

jaekobcaed wrote: »

I'm not against changing the RNG aspect of the lead farming but I also don't want to make those objects obtainable through other means. I like that there are ways to really reward players for exploring, especially considering how scrying/excavating is a fun, relaxing way to explore and enjoy the game without combat.

I agree with the spirit of this sentiment, but I am also going to counter with this doesn't feel like good or rewarding exploration. Behind character customization and story, exploration is one of my main drives in gaming. I would love the lead system as it is if the droprate was better/more forgiving or rewarding but as it stands it is anti-fun and feels extremely punishing to care about.

I have 132 missing leads in my codex and I actively try to complete it, taking breaks when it gets too frustrating. During the Heart's Day event I bought 250~ Telvanni Peninsula maps in an attempt to get my last lead and did not get it. In the past week I've spent about 20 hours trying to farm my missing dungeon leads in 9 dungeons and also got 0. I have probably run each of those nine dungeons enough times I could probably navigate them and do the dungeon if you turned my monitor off at this rate and I'm very sick of half of them. I do 2-4 Bastion Nymics a day with friends for about a year now and still have yet to get my lead there. Of my friends, only one of us so far has gotten the drop. This isn't about exploration, it's about tedium. There is no reliable state of progression for antiquities systematically, no pity like stickerbook or other game systems, and the time invested to try to complete the codex is not worth the time cost currently in any form.

Antiquities also feel far less rewarding for exploration in recent years compared to earlier iterations that were a lot more diverse and inspired. We went from antiquities littering the world in various static and dynamic forms to now that is usually only reserved to mythics and most zone based antiquities are shoved into treasure maps since necrom onward. There are various ways that have been suggested to preserve the feel of an exploration based system while giving it a fair sense of progression, but the current system is broken and really needs some sort of change. In fact, I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone could say their antiquities codex is complete, because by the time you are close to complete new leads are added and many in this thread and others have shown that the cost of time and resources is so absurdly high that it's likely none of us have done it.

lillybit · 12:52PM

jaekobcaed wrote: »

I'm not against changing the RNG aspect of the lead farming but I also don't want to make those objects obtainable through other means. I like that there are ways to really reward players for exploring, especially considering how scrying/excavating is a fun, relaxing way to explore and enjoy the game without combat.

There's already things that make those objects obtainable through other means.

Most of the furnishings can be bought for gold when you've completed the codex. The stickerbook let's you make any number of mythics for a token amount after you've only collected them once. The Motifs aren't even bound and the guild traders are full of them. Even leads can be bought. Or can if you only want the mythics anyway.

Scrying and excavating might be a fun and relaxing way to explore and enjoy the game, but you need the leads to be able to do that.

If you're having to run a dungeon for a month on repeat just for one fifth of an object, it's not really without combat. If it's costing you millions and/or taking months it doesn't even end up being fun or relaxing.

It's great if you see the whole system as just a nice way to pass the time. If you're happy just digging up the random things you come across or just repeating the treasures then it's perfect.

If you actually want to collect things, it's a nightmare

cuddles_with_wroble · 1:18PM

the antiquity system might be the worst most pointlessly painful grind ive ever experienced. leads come from entirely dead content thats annoying to run or random world objs that bore you to death and have negative drop rates or worse yet from crafting or daily quests... none of these things are fun and no one wants to do this random side content.

tie them to dungeons bosses or something and give them a reasonable drop rate, or just put them in a vendor and add a currency i can farm and buy the leads. it is so painful to have to go sit in an area and do something mindnumbing for potentially hours on end for a lead that takes a 5 second mini game to dig up