Why the Millennial Writing?

BardokRedSnow · February 23

As for the rest she definitely could've articulated this better, stating it was an immense struggle etc would have been better. I made a point before about the millennial writing and that too was considered problematic, for some reason it is a sensitive matter to acknowledge there's differences in quality of writing between generations. This is a reflection of that, people forget Zenimax has lost what, half their employees since Microsoft made those cuts?

All that said, I don't think this is a major deal, as long as they don't start using internet lingo. The "And stuff" line the player couldn't avoid using was much worse.

twisttop138 · February 23

xylena wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

Off topic, but as a millennial I really appreciate you associating youthful with millennial. I feel young again. Anyway, time to stretch my back

Also off topic: I'm from 83 (xennial generational void) so I still grew up "analog" and never really connected with the younger online-focused millenial subculture.

84 here. The xennial thing is pretty new knowledge to me. I was an adult before I had a phone or in house internet. I've been curious why I never took to these things. I'll never have the instinct to check my email or something. I don't mind it. The world was a better place before the dark times. Before the empire. Oh shoot. Wrong genre.

Northwold · February 23

whitecrow wrote: »

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Millennials are reaching the mid-forties. Using it as a reference to "youth culture" is tired.

Eh? It's only about 25 years since the millennium.

Millennials, depending on your definition, start around 1980-81 (the term was first coined for people who would come of age around the millennium).

Vaqual · February 23

xylena wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

It is ok to point out bad writing, although being hypersensitive about ambiguous instances isn't necessarily a good look.

Players complaining on forums don't care about their "look" in this manner, they're not running for office or selling a product. They are attempting to communicate to the devs or reach a broader audience that may agree with them, not trying to convince the "it's fine" people.

The ambiguous "epic" isn't as egregious as "tank" or "Wing Buffet" for breaking immersion with modern cultural references, but western millenials are a big demographic for this game and it's obviously contentious. The writing fails to connect with its target audience.

I meant a good look in terms of connecting eye-to-eye with responsible people at ZOS, who can view this topic as unbiased feedback or just put the "bashing" label on it and call it a day. If we make an effort with our communication we improve our chances of actually receiving what we are asking for.

TheOubliette · February 23

xbluerosesx wrote: »

Why did the daedric prince that was sealed up for millennia use "epic? "💀
I haven't even heard "epic used like that in forever.
why's she talking like a 30 something who's still mentally 12?

It's just one of the many examples I have of ESO writers putting zero effort into writing. It's not like ZOS can't afford to hire good ones, they have that Micro$oft money.

Started this mission a couple weeks back, and my group and I mocked the hell out of this writing. Yes, the use of "epic" in this way IS very jarring, because it's not talking about 'an epic', it's used as an exclamation, but the whole into dialogue is puerile and simplistic, clearly written by people with a serious case of idiocracy-brain.

And as others have said, the 'Deadric Prince' is one of the worst character models I've seen. It's a serious design departure for the game's aesthetics, and the mouth animation is on the bad side of creepy. Did this design get handed off to juniors? Let's hope this is a one-off.

ElvenOverlord · February 23

*Gen Z

xbluerosesx · 6:37AM

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

As to the overarching question of why that sort of writing is present, it's just the direction that popular culture took after a lot of it got homogenized under the influence of Marvel and other franchises like Star Wars. It's less to do with the way millennials actually talk and more with how media and mainstream culture became sanitized when executives realized that they could sell more copies of their product if it is rated PG-13. So you end up with this sort of performative toughness and quirkiness that has by now caught on in video games as well.

millennial writing, that's literally the term for cringe dialogue. if I called it twitterspeak would you feel better?

SwordOfSagas · 6:38AM

she's definitely been to that surgeon in the Riften sewers way too many times.

BahometZ · 7:53AM

Epic is a very real and apt word that is well-defined in a dictionary and people need some real problems to write about.

Did you know that you could cringe thirty years ago?

xbluerosesx · 8:30AM

BahometZ wrote: »

Epic is a very real and apt word that is well-defined in a dictionary and people need some real problems to write about.

Did you know that you could cringe thirty years ago?

Epic is too modern of a word choice for an ancient daedric entity.

frogthroat · 8:35AM

xbluerosesx wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

Epic is a very real and apt word that is well-defined in a dictionary and people need some real problems to write about.

Did you know that you could cringe thirty years ago?

Epic is too modern of a word choice for an ancient daedric entity.

Yes, the word originates in the late 1500's so yeah, it's not really medieval, or even late medieval any more, but more like early modern era. The Millennials of the Renaissance started to use that word.

xbluerosesx · 10:02AM

frogthroat wrote: »

xbluerosesx wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

Epic is a very real and apt word that is well-defined in a dictionary and people need some real problems to write about.

Did you know that you could cringe thirty years ago?

Epic is too modern of a word choice for an ancient daedric entity.

Yes, the word originates in the late 1500's so yeah, it's not really medieval, or even late medieval any more, but more like early modern era. The Millennials of the Renaissance started to use that word.

poorly edited but it's not wrong

Syldras · 4:46PM

Aristotle has used the word ἔπος (epos) in his work Poetics to categorize different forms of writing. Literary works that time that are still known today, that fall into the category of epos, are for example the Iliad and the Odyssey. So the word epos itself is from Greek Antiquity, 2350+ years old.

When "epic" came up for "of the kind that gets described in an epos", I don't know for sure, but it doesn't seem a complicated deduction.

The way it was presented by Ithelia in ESO, in that style of speech (the complete dialogue, not just the word), looked a bit borderline to me, but there are really worse examples in ESO that very clearly seem out of place.

Oh, and while we're at it: "manifesto" can be derived from Latin "manifestus".

frogthroat · 5:09PM

Syldras wrote: »

The way it was presented by Ithelia in ESO, in that style of speech (the complete dialogue, not just the word), looked a bit borderline to me, but there are really worse examples in ESO that very clearly seem out of place.

Well, yes. It would be less of modern use if the word would be used as a noun instead of an adjective, "the tale of struggle would be fit for an epic" or something.

Syldras · 5:29PM

I think the thing that matters most in this whole issue isn't even how old a word really is. It's about the feeling it evokes when the player hears or reads it. And if it makes people think explicitely about something modern - a current meme, a "trend word", a technical invention that's clearly from modern times, or game mechanics - that's the problem. Not which century the word originally is from (the language we generally see in ESO isn't real "historical" language anyway, but today's language with some "older" sounding terms, and the avoidance of topics that are clearly 20th/21st century).

BretonMage · 5:36PM

Epic as an adjective has been used for centuries it seems: https://www.etymonline.com/word/epic

I think that if your primary exposure to the word has been in the modern context, then it's understandable that you'd think its usage is modern, but it's not. I know I read it well before social media or the internet existed. One would say things like "epic tale" or "epic struggle" etc.

AScarlato · 5:47PM

Syldras wrote: »

Aristotle has used the word ἔπος (epos) in his work Poetics to categorize different forms of writing. Literary works that time that are still known today, that fall into the category of epos, are for example the Iliad and the Odyssey. So the word epos itself is from Greek Antiquity, 2350+ years old.

When "epic" came up for "of the kind that gets described in an epos", I don't know for sure, but it doesn't seem a complicated deduction.

The way it was presented by Ithelia in ESO, in that style of speech (the complete dialogue, not just the word), looked a bit borderline to me, but there are really worse examples in ESO that very clearly seem out of place.

Oh, and while we're at it: "manifesto" can be derived from Latin "manifestus".

You are certainly a font of knowledge

I'm all for better writing, but sometimes I feel we should choose our battles. I'm afraid the writers might just throw their hands up in the air if something like the word Epic will be scrutinized.

My mind did not associate her use of Epic with anything modern; if anything I find the word Epic to fit in well with fantasy / fables / myths, etc. Such as the Odyssey which is often referred to with Epic as an adjective. My opinion may be different if she referred to something mundane as epic without irony, though. But I would assume that a battle between the forces of two Daedric Princes would qualify as epic.

rockDokRock · 5:48PM

xbluerosesx wrote: »

Why did the daedric prince that was sealed up for millennia use "epic? "💀
I haven't even heard "epic used like that in forever.
why's she talking like a 30 something who's still mentally 12?

It's just one of the many examples I have of ESO writers putting zero effort into writing. It's not like ZOS can't afford to hire good ones, they have that Micro$oft money.

Just wait until they start using "iconic".

LalMirchi · 5:48PM

I'm not for labelling anything, if anything the labels are arbitrarily used due to individual bias.

Edit: spelling.

AlexanderDeLarge · 6:09PM

ngl I was expecting way worse than OP's screenshot.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · 6:21PM

It's not as simple as "epic" is an old word therefore making it okay, it's how it's used.

For example if an npc said: "This would be fitting for an epic" or "It will mimic epics of eras past" Few would bat an eye.
But if they said: "That was....epic!" it does not fit. Even less so if said by an eldrich being from beyond time and space.

As a millenial, who still have no clue why it's called millenial writing because few of my brethren actually like this writing, unless it's something taking place IRL and during a time when such phrasing and slang was used. Having a prince say something like that is similar imo to them saying "You are free to go mortal, I will do exactly what you said ....NOT!" Insert silent LOL and XD at your leisure.

Syldras · 6:52PM

Another thing on the usage of the word "epic":

I know that there are prints of John Milton's Paradise Lost from the 1700s and 1800s that have "An epic poem" on the title page. Unfortunately, the pictures I find online only say "a poem".

Then I went to my bookshelf out of curiosity to see what my copy says - though I'm not sure if it helps this debate much, because it's a French translation (but the print is from 1765 at least), but maybe it's a hint, at least. And indeed, the title page states "poëme héroïque" - which is a French term used for "epic poem". Picture (sorry for the bad lighting):