Guild Spamming Issue

ItsYourFuneral · February 24

Why does everyone redact the individual that is spamming guild invites? Make it public to everyone, shame is a powerful tool.

DragonRacer · February 24

ItsYourFuneral wrote: »

Why does everyone redact the individual that is spamming guild invites? Make it public to everyone, shame is a powerful tool.

Because it falls under the No Naming & Shaming rule the forum has so they are avoiding getting banned here for sharing the usernames of bad actors.

ItsYourFuneral · February 24

@DragonRacer Oof... Imagine having to follow the rules while others can ignore them.... What a Time to be Alive

LennaTheRussian · February 24

ItsYourFuneral wrote: »

Why does everyone redact the individual that is spamming guild invites? Make it public to everyone, shame is a powerful tool.

Not allowed on here unfortunately

DragonRacer · February 24

ItsYourFuneral wrote: »

@DragonRacer Oof... Imagine having to follow the rules while others can ignore them.... What a Time to be Alive

If you think that's exciting, you should see how one anonymous individual apparently has the entire modding community - and everyone who enjoys and utilizes those mods - by the short hairs thanks to weaponizing rules/reporting systems (context: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689054/okay-we-ve-gotta-talk-false-copyright/p1

What an absolute time to be alive indeed. The wolves are allowed to do whatever they want in the henhouse these days, it seems.

ItsYourFuneral · February 24

@DragonRacer I saw that, it just keeps getting better, doesnt it? XD

DenverRalphy · February 24

ItsYourFuneral wrote: »

@DragonRacer Oof... Imagine having to follow the rules while others can ignore them.... What a Time to be Alive

Technically, the offender in question is following the rules. The problem is that the rules are a bit ambiguous..

DragonRacer · February 24

Edit: I don't wish to lose posting privileges and I can see what is currently happening with my other posts, so message received. Chilling in effect.

OutLaw_Nynx · February 24

Anyone know the add on they use? Could you report it for t&c violation? Is this even against t&c ;(??

DeathandDebauchery · February 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

As expected. @ZOS_Kevin they stopped for a week or so to get things to calm down based on the prior thread, but here we are again, back to the Spam this weekend.

Is there any update on an official stance on this? Remove the invite API? Say that this is against ToS so we can have action taken?

The other issue is they often do this on $5 accounts in Auridon and the such.

Following up here to note that I am talking to customer service to resolve this. Had some conversations last week to come up with a general plan and continuing those this week. In the meantime, please continue to report and post ticket numbers. That way, there is a paper trail to refer to.

@ZOS_Kevin ,

This is not going to be resolved just by getting Customer Service to action these accounts. We need a clear statement from you that this is AGAINST terms of service, or the API needs to be removed. A clear warning needs to be given to the guild leader to cease using this bot and add-on immediately or the guild should be actioned for harassment in the same way that you actioned the accounts duplicating Savage Blade. All that is going to happen is more accounts are going to get made and replace this one if we don't get a rule and an infraction against the rule. There is literally only ONE GUILD in the ENTIRE GAME doing this.

We need a stance statement not more "i'm looking in to this" language. The guild leader has explicitly said that ZoS has told them this is not against Terms of Service, is that true or not?

SilverBride · February 24

Is it really naming and shaming when the guild leader posted in this now locked thread himself and openly identified himself and his guild as the ones doing this?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687752/please-do-something-about-wayshrine-guild-invite-spam-on-pc-na/p1

LennaTheRussian · February 24

SilverBride wrote: »

Is it really naming and shaming when the guild leader posted in the now locked thread himself and admitted to it? He openly identified himself and his guild as the ones doing this.

True but better to be safe then sorry. Everyone knows the guild responsible by now anyway.

LennaTheRussian · February 24

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Anyone know the add on they use? Could you report it for t&c violation? Is this even against t&c ;(??

It's private I'm sure. The leader has a whole team of devs working to make addons for his guild and whatnot.

Soarora · February 24

My understanding is that the guild works like a Multi Level Marketing scheme where the “bots” we see mostly have real players behind them running a script. Talking to the players won’t help when they’re easily replaceable by new people who don’t know any better. Have to tackle the core issues.

DeathandDebauchery · February 24

I dont understand how it takes weeks behind the scenes to get you all to say this is an inappropriate action by a bad actor that needs to cease immediately. This is blatantly cut and dry harassment.

If you don't have a technical solution right now, that's fine, what we need is a clear statement.

"This add-on is utilizing the Guild Invite API in a way that is not intended. We are currently looking in to technical solutions starting for U50. In the meantime, we have sent a message to the guild leader to stop utilizing the add-on immediately, and any further usage will result in action against the guild and guild leadership.

If you see this moving forward, please report it in this exact way, doing so will move it up the customer service pipeline and ensure rapid resolution:

INSTRUCTIONS HERE"

^^ I truly don't understand why this so difficult for you all to type after 3 weeks.

SilverBride · February 24

I don't understand why it takes multiple conversations with customer service to resolve this.

It is disrupting the enjoyment of the game for many players and has been reported as such for years. Disrupting the enjoyment of the game for others is against the code of conduct so why is it taking so long to enforce this?

scrappy1342 · February 24

SilverBride wrote: »

Is it really naming and shaming when the guild leader posted in this now locked thread himself and openly identified himself and his guild as the ones doing this?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687752/please-do-something-about-wayshrine-guild-invite-spam-on-pc-na/p1

yes, because the mods rarely read and take into account other things posted in the threads. this whole situation is an example of that. they shut down duplicate threads without actually reading what is going on. they shut down threads over a year old without reading and seeing that the info is still relevant and then tell you to open a duplicate thread. they would simply read/see that someone gave someone's name and reprimand them

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

I truly don't understand why this so difficult for you all to type after 3 weeks.

because it's been going on for YEARS. i don't know how they have played ignorance on this for so long other than to assume they don't read any tickets that they deny until someone appeals. smaller issues (this one began small, but has obviously grown bigger) when you see a rejection on your ticket, most ppl will just move on and not repeal it

LittleLionLeone · February 24

It's best to keep posting screenshots on here if you see the bots again. Just have to keep applying pressure. At the very least it makes the guild retreat for a bit if the devs don't want to step in.

SilverBride · February 24

We shouldn't have to apply pressure to get a violation of the code of conduct stopped. It is very disappointing that this issue has gone on for years, despite being brought to attention many times. Something needs done soon.

LittleLionLeone · February 24

I agree but that does not mean we should stop applying pressure. If we stop then the odds are that they get away with it and continue.

Frayton · February 24

What in oblivion. I quit playing this game for years, come back and this cult guild is still at it? Wow.

SilverBride · February 24

This is the most disappointing situation I can think of in all my years of playing.

Frayton · February 24

SilverBride wrote: »

This is the most disappointing situation I can think of in all my years of playing.

Seriously. What the actual is going on here? It's been years. I can't believe they're still allowed to grief like this. Stuga must be livid.

MreeBiPolar · February 24

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

This thread is specifically about how the ZOS team chooses to communicate deadlines and information. There was a thread earlier this week about a specific hot topic issue, linked here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687752/please-do-something-about-wayshrine-guild-invite-spam-on-pc-na/p1

This thread is not about the topic. But rather the fact that we were promised a response within 24 hours, it was then edited to remove that promise, and every thread that has re-brought it up has been locked.

At this point, the community has been promised information, has not been provided that information, the promise was redacted, and then any further discussion on the topic has been intentionally squashed.

I went there to check if my hunch on who has edited the response removing that promise was right. ... Guess what...

DragonRacer · February 24

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

This thread is specifically about how the ZOS team chooses to communicate deadlines and information. There was a thread earlier this week about a specific hot topic issue, linked here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687752/please-do-something-about-wayshrine-guild-invite-spam-on-pc-na/p1

This thread is not about the topic. But rather the fact that we were promised a response within 24 hours, it was then edited to remove that promise, and every thread that has re-brought it up has been locked.

At this point, the community has been promised information, has not been provided that information, the promise was redacted, and then any further discussion on the topic has been intentionally squashed.

I went there to check if my hunch on who has edited the response removing that promise was right. ... Guess what...

I feel like the title of this thread was different and thought I was losing my mind. Then I saw the OP was edited this morning and that is not something that is permitted to be discussed per community rules so I will say nothing more other than I observed a thing.

WolfStar07 · February 24

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Anyone know the add on they use? Could you report it for t&c violation? Is this even against t&c ;(??

It would be great if we could, but it's a private addon not hosted on ESOUI. If it were, I guarantee you more guilds would've been using it.

tsaescishoeshiner · February 24

This is clearly a thorny issue for them to fix directly and suddenly. I would have a lot to parse through, investigate, and decide on if I were in their shoes.

That said, some easy changes to prevent botting, spam, and peer pressure that players may like to hear being considered would be:

- If you decline a direct guild invite (not because of full guilds), further invites from the same guild should be blocked for a week/month, like the duel declining feature
- To prevent bots and botting behavior, an account should be one month old before it can send guild invites, maybe two weeks
- Guild Invite spam should be added as a report category (and the account blocked from directly inviting anyone for a while if they get too many)
- Direct guild invites should have a daily limit per account
- Forcing guild members to invite people or recruit should be against the ToS (to prevent pyramid scheme behavior lol). I doubt this would lead to many reports, but would give staff something to lean on while actioning people

SilverBride · February 24

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

This is clearly a thorny issue for them to fix directly and suddenly.

There is nothing sudden about dealing with an issue that has been brought to attention for several years now.

Emeratis · February 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

As expected. @ZOS_Kevin they stopped for a week or so to get things to calm down based on the prior thread, but here we are again, back to the Spam this weekend.

Is there any update on an official stance on this? Remove the invite API? Say that this is against ToS so we can have action taken?

The other issue is they often do this on $5 accounts in Auridon and the such.

Following up here to note that I am talking to customer service to resolve this. Had some conversations last week to come up with a general plan and continuing those this week. In the meantime, please continue to report and post ticket numbers. That way, there is a paper trail to refer to.

Ticket # 260223-004211 is mine. This has been going on for years. It's about time something changed.

Destai · February 24

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

As expected. @ZOS_Kevin they stopped for a week or so to get things to calm down based on the prior thread, but here we are again, back to the Spam this weekend.

Is there any update on an official stance on this? Remove the invite API? Say that this is against ToS so we can have action taken?

The other issue is they often do this on $5 accounts in Auridon and the such.

Following up here to note that I am talking to customer service to resolve this. Had some conversations last week to come up with a general plan and continuing those this week. In the meantime, please continue to report and post ticket numbers. That way, there is a paper trail to refer to.

Thank you Kevin.

It'd be appreciated to know why all previous conversations around this topic were locked. This has been great example of where the rules are confusing to navigate. We all get you were having internal discussions, but it's hard to see why we couldn't talk about the issue in the meantime.

That being said - what's the end goal here? I see a lot of unanswered concerns with this being a deeper issue than ZOS has publicly admitted. It feels like the add-ons themselves need to be revoked at a minimum. What's in scope for the resolution here? What confidence can you give us that the conversations you're having will result in a permanent solution?

And please - don't sit on these questions. I don't think that's fair to the community in these kinds of situations. There's a pattern here where something controversial happens, we get some small updates, and then a wealth of questions go unaddressed immediately after you post. It seems like it's in part because the updates are very brief. That creates situations where people feel like they have to pester you because you're here so briefly before you're onto the rest of your monumental workload.

Thanks for the hard work you're doing here. I know you've got a lot on your plate.