Detection potions

Ultiscrub Gaming · January 27

Detection potions shouldn’t work on invisible players there are already enough counters to invisibly. Namely all the detection skills which literally all specify both stealth and invisibility.But the detection potion specifically only says stealth detection. They are 2 separate mechanics in the game. You can’t stun from invisibility unless the skill specifies that you can. I can only stun with a heavy attack, surprise attack or other direct damage skill if I am actually stealth not just invisible. Not to mention why even put invisibility potions in the game if they can be countered with another potion thats just silly. Besides there are no potions to counter other classes defensive skills like protective scales and morphs, apocryphal gate and morphs, bolt escape and morphs, frozen gate and morphs. Its like night blades are the most hated class or something. Imagine if i could drink a potion and your couldn’t use ball of lightning for 15 seconds with in 43 meters of my player or protective scales for 15 seconds within 43 meters of my character. The forums would be filled with cry babies as soon as that was announced on the forums but ganker mains are supposed to just be happy we have no defense…. Ok bro sounds fair.

Edited: also all direct damage aoe skills are a direct counter to invisibility, the skill is also insanely expensive to the point that if you spec into being able to use it 24/7 you would do next to no damage anyway. When this is looked at with just logic and not with some emotional lens of being sick and tired of the gankers being hard to kill its clear as day. No one cries that the 41k health assassin/animal companion/restoring light warden main class can block everything you throw at them and burst you with incap->beetles->bow proc with out fail all the while if you spec into pure glass cannon you can’t burst them. Definitely needs some rebalancing but if i could drink a potion and stop you from blocking the forums would be over loaded with crying about that.

reazea · January 27

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Detection potions shouldn’t work on invisible players there are already enough counters to invisibly. Namely all the detection skills which literally all specify both stealth and invisibility.But the detection potion specifically only says stealth detection. They are 2 separate mechanics in the game. You can’t stun from invisibility unless the skill specifies that you can. I can only stun with a heavy attack, surprise attack or other direct damage skill if I am actually stealth not just invisible. Not to mention why even put invisibility potions in the game if they can be countered with another potion thats just silly. Besides there are no potions to counter other classes defensive skills like protective scales and morphs, apocryphal gate and morphs, bolt escape and morphs, frozen gate and morphs. Its like night blades are the most hated class or something. Imagine if i could drink a potion and your couldn’t use ball of lightning for 15 seconds with in 43 meters of my player or protective scales for 15 seconds within 43 meters of my character. The forums would be filled with cry babies as soon as that was announced on the forums but ganker mains are supposed to just be happy we have no defense…. Ok bro sounds fair.

Edited: also all direct damage aoe skills are a direct counter to invisibility, the skill is also insanely expensive to the point that if you spec into being able to use it 24/7 you would do next to no damage anyway. When this is looked at with just logic and not with some emotional lens of being sick and tired of the gankers being hard to kill its clear as day. No one cries that the 41k health assassin/animal companion/restoring light warden main class can block everything you throw at them and burst you with incap->beetles->bow proc with out fail all the while if you spec into pure glass cannon you can’t burst them. Definitely needs some rebalancing but if i could drink a potion and stop you from blocking the forums would be over loaded with crying about that.

Couldn't disagree more. If there is a class skill that allows invisibility there has to be a counter easily available to every class.

imPDA · January 27

Invisibility = invulnerability, you can't attack invisible target, if target is not dumb. You can use invisibility to attack too, not only as defense. Nowadays 7 out of 10 medium skilled players uses invisibility, and if they attack you and fail, they return to invisibility and voila, they are safe and dandy, and the only option to counter it - to use detect potion. It allows them to attack you first, and it is huge advantage tbh if used correctly.

I would even make detection potions cheaper or smaller CD or longer duration tbh. I played nightblades a lot, so I am not NB hater, but I can't support this thread, there is nothing wrong with these potions and how it currently works.

Ultiscrub Gaming · January 28

Couldn't disagree more. If there is a class skill that allows invisibility there has to be a counter easily available to every class. [/quote]

Ok so maybe you are unaware of the detection skills available to everyone or you chose to deliberately not read everything I typed. You just have to choose a different morph. Instead of inner light, choose radiant mage light(12 meter radius). Instead of camouflage hunter go with evil hunter(12 meter radius). If you don’t like either of those Skills you can use any AOE that is direct damage which would require medium level of skill to guess where the night blade went, which is not hard unless you’re in an open field. Lastly, you have both morphs of revealing flare(10 meter radius). ALL of these are available to ALL classes and offer useful buffs. They are skills so they require skill to use. In other words as soon as a nightblade cloaks use the skill or bar swap and use the skill. This is not a not a difficult thing to understand.

Lastly, this might hurt your feelings, but the game is suffering because of people like you. Y’all are everywhere and honestly the main problem with balancing in this game. You don’t bother to read anything outside of what will make your build hit harder you could care less about utility skills which have been in game sense day one. Please think before you post something this uninformed again.

Ultiscrub Gaming · January 28

imPDA wrote: »

Invisibility = invulnerability, you can't attack invisible target, if target is not dumb. You can use invisibility to attack too, not only as defense. Nowadays 7 out of 10 medium skilled players uses invisibility, and if they attack you and fail, they return to invisibility and voila, they are safe and dandy, and the only option to counter it - to use detect potion. It allows them to attack you first, and it is huge advantage tbh if used correctly.

I would even make detection potions cheaper or smaller CD or longer duration tbh. I played nightblades a lot, so I am not NB hater, but I can't support this thread, there is nothing wrong with these potions and how it currently works.

You absolutely can attack an invisible target with any AOE direct damage skill. I am not the smartest but not the dumbest either but anytime I try to gank good player if they don’t have the potions they use AOE as soon as I cloak and I get found because they are good enough to use the AOE skills fast enough. As for your only option to counter it being detection potions. I’m not gonna type it out. Just look at the other person‘s comment and my reply. I go over all the detection skills in detail, they are available to all classes everybody can use them no DLC required.

[snip]

[Edit for bait]

Ultiscrub Gaming · January 28

Before anybody else comments, please make sure you’re posting informed. I’m pretty sure it’s against the forum guidelines to post untrue information about the game. There’s already been two comments that were not informed of skills that have been in the game for most of if not all of the games life.

imPDA · January 28

We can test how effectively you will find me with AoE damage skills and with flare or evil hunter after I streak and sneak or if you will find me at all if I camp some location, e.x. IC flag. Detection works in limited radius as you said, 12 and 10 meters, and all good nbs can break this distance with ease, so probably try better next time, both skills are pretty much useless for the purpose atm.

I have been playing this game for a long long time, and I remember days when each mentioned skill was in use to reveal gankers, because they were part of almost every PvP build because of bonuses, but now almost nobody uses them, and I will not pick one or another to find gankers, there are much better choices for skills, so, everybody switched to detect potions

CameraBeardThePirate · January 28

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Before anybody else comments, please make sure you’re posting informed. I’m pretty sure it’s against the forum guidelines to post untrue information about the game. There’s already been two comments that were not informed of skills that have been in the game for most of if not all of the games life.

Everyone is informed about those skills, the problem is stating that they are an effective counter when they're not.

First of all, they take up bar space. If I'm already getting my crit buff from the myriad of other sources available, why would I slot those abilities on the off chance I run into someone using invis? It's a waste of bar space in any fight that you aren't fighting someone using invis.

On the other hand, detect potions offer flexibility. You don't need to run them full time, but in return they have a long cooldown and require you to share that cooldown with your other potion, typically sacrificing off-stat sustain when you want to use them.

Avran_Sylt · January 28

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Before anybody else comments, please make sure you’re posting informed. I’m pretty sure it’s against the forum guidelines to post untrue information about the game. There’s already been two comments that were not informed of skills that have been in the game for most of if not all of the games life.

Everyone is informed about those skills, the problem is stating that they are an effective counter when they're not.

First of all, they take up bar space. If I'm already getting my crit buff from the myriad of other sources available, why would I slot those abilities on the off chance I run into someone using invis? It's a waste of bar space in any fight that you aren't fighting someone using invis.

On the other hand, detect potions offer flexibility. You don't need to run them full time, but in return they have a long cooldown and require you to share that cooldown with your other potion, typically sacrificing off-stat sustain when you want to use them.

You know what also takes up barspace?

Invisibility (skill(s)).

If the detect pot just increased the range you could detect sneaking players, that's one thing, but this is a GCD disjointed "ability" that can also counter a barspace ability.

Though, I totally agree that the base-game detection skills have lagged behind the movement meta.

Because the detection pot covering a 1400% larger area than Evil Hunter is asinine.

Some tangential fun facts about the detection pots:

It can be used while invisible and it won't break you out of stealth.
you can tell when you've been spotted by a detect pot while sneaking, but have no awareness of this while invisible
Edit: oh and this pot is another one of the PvP pubstomper items where if you're rich you have an upper hand, but if you're poor you're SoL. So glad they made the tri-pot purchasable with AP.

Ultiscrub Gaming · January 28

imPDA wrote: »

We can test how effectively you will find me with AoE damage skills and with flare or evil hunter after I streak and sneak or if you will find me at all if I camp some location, e.x. IC flag. Detection works in limited radius as you said, 12 and 10 meters, and all good nbs can break this distance with ease, so probably try better next time, both skills are pretty much useless for the purpose atm.

I have been playing this game for a long long time, and I remember days when each mentioned skill was in use to reveal gankers, because they were part of almost every PvP build because of bonuses, but now almost nobody uses them, and I will not pick one or another to find gankers, there are much better choices for skills, so, everybody switched to detect potions

I used to use detection skills but I don’t anymore because they’re so far behind a completely free to use potion that will give you magic, magic recovery, stealth detection, and immovability. Meanwhile, cloak cost resources and bar space and will drain your magic in few seconds of movement.

As for the detection skills being useless, you’re completely wrong. Not only do they detect, but they also prevent you from reusing the cloak or invisibly potions for four seconds and put a big blue ball circling your head showing the entire zerg you are there, if I could use a skill to prevent you from using your movement and I’m not talking about a snare or root because they can be purged there is no way to purge the detection ball circling your charters head I have tried. If i could do that every 1vXer would quit the game because that would be unbalanced. The detection skills definitely could have a little bit more range, but they are far from useless. Not to mention, they come with useful passives in their respective skill lines. Useful enough to where I know for a fact that when you run Dawnbreaker, you spend the extra time to get the skill points to get the passives or if you run meteor you spend the time to get the skill points to get the passives. So saying they are useless will not work.

Erickson9610 · January 30

Werewolf has no access to any of the detection skills. Detection potions are literally the only way for Werewolves to bring enemies out of stealth and invisibility (without blindly spamming Infectious Claws where they think the invisible people are) — Werewolves can't even use the Sentry set because they currently can't crouch/sneak to activate it!

I hope Werewolf gets the ability to sneak, as well as some form of in-kit stealth detection. I'd happily take a Werewolf Grimoire that can be Scribed to reveal enemies, or added Stealth Detection radius to their passives. Werewolves should also be allowed to participate in the stealth and detection mechanics — until that happens, please leave both Invisibility and Detection potions alone.

Ultiscrub Gaming · February 3

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf has no access to any of the detection skills. Detection potions are literally the only way for Werewolves to bring enemies out of stealth and invisibility (without blindly spamming Infectious Claws where they think the invisible people are) — Werewolves can't even use the Sentry set because they currently can't crouch/sneak to activate it!

I hope Werewolf gets the ability to sneak, as well as some form of in-kit stealth detection. I'd happily take a Werewolf Grimoire that can be Scribed to reveal enemies, or added Stealth Detection radius to their passives. Werewolves should also be allowed to participate in the stealth and detection mechanics — until that happens, please leave both Invisibility and Detection potions alone.

Don’t they have access to the busted potions anyway? Besides if you go to gank a ww and you fail you won’t get away from a good player anyway.

El_Borracho · February 3

There should be no potions for Major Brutality and Sorcery as there are plenty of skills that provide that
There should be no potions from Major Savagery or Prophesy as there are plenty of skills that provide that

Hmm, doesn't sound right, does it. Just because everyone can get Magelight doesn't mean we can't also have detect pots.

ercknn · February 7

I honestly feel mage light and camouflage hunter should have a bigger defect radius, last longer for its high skill cost.

I have a pure nb and feel if you can’t survive without using stealth as a crutch you’re doing something wrong.

Proper LOS, misdirection on the initial stealth, as well as juking the enemy while they pop the detect is key to surviving as a nb.

You wanting to get rid of detect pits is a notion of pure enablement to the nb playstyle.

irstarkey57 · February 9

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Before anybody else comments, please make sure you’re posting informed. I’m pretty sure it’s against the forum guidelines to post untrue information about the game. There’s already been two comments that were not informed of skills that have been in the game for most of if not all of the games life.

Everyone is informed about those skills, the problem is stating that they are an effective counter when they're not.

First of all, they take up bar space. If I'm already getting my crit buff from the myriad of other sources available, why would I slot those abilities on the off chance I run into someone using invis? It's a waste of bar space in any fight that you aren't fighting someone using invis.

On the other hand, detect potions offer flexibility. You don't need to run them full time, but in return they have a long cooldown and require you to share that cooldown with your other potion, typically sacrificing off-stat sustain when you want to use them.

You know what also takes up barspace?

Invisibility (skill(s)).

If the detect pot just increased the range you could detect sneaking players, that's one thing, but this is a GCD disjointed "ability" that can also counter a barspace ability.

Though, I totally agree that the base-game detection skills have lagged behind the movement meta.

Because the detection pot covering a 1400% larger area than Evil Hunter is asinine.

Some tangential fun facts about the detection pots:
It can be used while invisible and it won't break you out of stealth.

you can tell when you've been spotted by a detect pot while sneaking, but have no awareness of this while invisible

Edit: oh and this pot is another one of the PvP pubstomper items where if you're rich you have an upper hand, but if you're poor you're SoL. So glad they made the tri-pot purchasable with AP.

Nonsense. Cloak also gives you major resolve, and a guaranteed crit out of cloak. people slot skills that only give major resolve. so no, the bar space argument is erroneous. this whole post was created over ganker tears that are upset when they can be seen. its ridiculous.

irstarkey57 · February 9

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Detection potions shouldn’t work on invisible players there are already enough counters to invisibly. Namely all the detection skills which literally all specify both stealth and invisibility.But the detection potion specifically only says stealth detection. They are 2 separate mechanics in the game. You can’t stun from invisibility unless the skill specifies that you can. I can only stun with a heavy attack, surprise attack or other direct damage skill if I am actually stealth not just invisible. Not to mention why even put invisibility potions in the game if they can be countered with another potion thats just silly. Besides there are no potions to counter other classes defensive skills like protective scales and morphs, apocryphal gate and morphs, bolt escape and morphs, frozen gate and morphs. Its like night blades are the most hated class or something. Imagine if i could drink a potion and your couldn’t use ball of lightning for 15 seconds with in 43 meters of my player or protective scales for 15 seconds within 43 meters of my character. The forums would be filled with cry babies as soon as that was announced on the forums but ganker mains are supposed to just be happy we have no defense…. Ok bro sounds fair.

Edited: also all direct damage aoe skills are a direct counter to invisibility, the skill is also insanely expensive to the point that if you spec into being able to use it 24/7 you would do next to no damage anyway. When this is looked at with just logic and not with some emotional lens of being sick and tired of the gankers being hard to kill its clear as day. No one cries that the 41k health assassin/animal companion/restoring light warden main class can block everything you throw at them and burst you with incap->beetles->bow proc with out fail all the while if you spec into pure glass cannon you can’t burst them. Definitely needs some rebalancing but if i could drink a potion and stop you from blocking the forums would be over loaded with crying about that.

you have a fear that can't be blocked. use that. or would you then argue that immovable pots shouldnt exist either? also, there are pots that turn you invisible and potions that detect invisibility. seems pretty balanced to me. as far as your NB skill, it also provides you major resolve, and guarantees a crit out of stealth....like, what else do you want? and no, no one is taking up bar space for inner light etc. half the time i would like to use an invis pot to stop a 40k gank hit, im on pot cooldown anyway from fighting. sorry, i don't think the devs need to be catering to NB's waiting in stealth to delete someone. and you want to argue its annoying that people block? come on dude. you sound extremely biased. NB is my second most played class and I have zero issue with detect being a thing.

Wup_sa · February 9

Biggest bait post in a while.

Avran_Sylt · February 9

irstarkey57 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Before anybody else comments, please make sure you’re posting informed. I’m pretty sure it’s against the forum guidelines to post untrue information about the game. There’s already been two comments that were not informed of skills that have been in the game for most of if not all of the games life.

Everyone is informed about those skills, the problem is stating that they are an effective counter when they're not.

First of all, they take up bar space. If I'm already getting my crit buff from the myriad of other sources available, why would I slot those abilities on the off chance I run into someone using invis? It's a waste of bar space in any fight that you aren't fighting someone using invis.

On the other hand, detect potions offer flexibility. You don't need to run them full time, but in return they have a long cooldown and require you to share that cooldown with your other potion, typically sacrificing off-stat sustain when you want to use them.

You know what also takes up barspace?

Invisibility (skill(s)).

If the detect pot just increased the range you could detect sneaking players, that's one thing, but this is a GCD disjointed "ability" that can also counter a barspace ability.

Though, I totally agree that the base-game detection skills have lagged behind the movement meta.

Because the detection pot covering a 1400% larger area than Evil Hunter is asinine.

Some tangential fun facts about the detection pots:
It can be used while invisible and it won't break you out of stealth.

you can tell when you've been spotted by a detect pot while sneaking, but have no awareness of this while invisible

Edit: oh and this pot is another one of the PvP pubstomper items where if you're rich you have an upper hand, but if you're poor you're SoL. So glad they made the tri-pot purchasable with AP.

Nonsense. Cloak also gives you major resolve, and a guaranteed crit out of cloak. people slot skills that only give major resolve. so no, the bar space argument is erroneous. this whole post was created over ganker tears that are upset when they can be seen. its ridiculous.

Well then please l would love Zeni to remove the major resolve and guaranteed crit from cloak if that's what it takes to remove that bs inconsistency between a potion and an ability lol. On the onset I use it for initial positioning/backline obfuscation and LoS escape first and foremost, which (I assume) most gankers also do lol.

Like please, give me a potion that Stuns nearby enemies, then I'll stop complaining about this potion.

albertberku · February 9

My recommendation: Make detect pot cooldown on receiver instead of consumer. One potion has 15 sec detect and 30 sec cooldown. You are not going to find any decent group with less than 3 players. I see cloak as useless against any semi-decent group. It should be 15 sec detect duration and if you cant catch the player during that time then some grace period, not 100% detection uptime for groups.

There are already million ways of getting players out of invisibility. Detect potions are too powerful solely due to the fact that groups can take turns and they will have 100% detection all the time. It is not one good timed detect pot is the problem but 3 consecutively used detect pots with 15 sec turns by different group members. If you are fighting against wrong people one of your skills which is named Cloak (which is the signature escape tool of a whole class) completely stops working, you are fighting with 9 active abilities instead of 10.

If anything give other active detection skills bigger radius and more duration, that would be much more fair.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 10

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

No one cries that the 41k health assassin/animal companion/restoring light warden main class can block everything you throw at them and burst you with incap->beetles->bow proc with out fail all the while if you spec into pure glass cannon you can’t burst them.

And this is how I know this is simply a bait post and not serious. You talk about needing to be informed, but then make this absolutely insane comment. 90% of players who don’t play the meta complain about that very thing. I do use a meta build and you could unhallow a church with the number of insults, curse words, attempted guilt trips, and threats I’ve gotten in whispers after killing people with it.

I’ve said this in prior posts like this and I’ll say it here. Invisibility is one of the biggest advantages in the entire game. All of those detection abilities you mentioned are guessing games. They either don’t have enough of a radius to detect someone who can gank you from range, have such a high cost that spamming them is unrealistic, or they require you to get lucky and hit someone who is, to reiterate, completely invisible.

Also, you’re only thinking about ganking and not bombing. I’ve seen so many groups get saved when one person pops a detect pot and spots a bomber buffing up to prep for the big kaboom in a corner somewhere, or sneakily approaching the group with Proxy Det primed and counting down.

Detect pots are perfectly fine the way they are.

ViggyBoi · February 15

I feel like a healthy understanding of the term "opportunity cost" would have rendered this entire thread obsolete.

Ultiscrub Gaming · February 22

Im done you guys can’t see the down sides of a gank build and how that play style is already at a huge disadvantage.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 22

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Im done you guys can’t see the down sides of a gank build and how that play style is already at a huge disadvantage.

Well it has one of the biggest advantages in the game, so something has to balance out. When you can turn invisible and delete someone in literally seconds, there needs to be counterplay. You don’t get to be invincible and kill everything on a whim.

Casul · February 22

The only true balance solution.

Remove cloak and all detection skill. Keep cloak and detection locked to potions, then give old school evasion 20% dodge to nightblade cloak.

imPDA · February 23

Turned out, majority are not blind and can see how this playstyle already at a huge advantage, so they are not supporting this.

olsborg · February 23

Its not like a detection potion comes without cost. You give up one major buff to have a ~16 second stealth detection on your potion.

Kartalin · February 23

Always enjoy the rage tells from other stealth blades when I kill them after pulling them out of stealth with a detect pot -- while I myself am also ganking.

Besides, detect pots are nothing. When you have an opposing guild that designates at least one member to run the Sentry set on the chance they encounter our guild (Bows in the Hood), now you know you've rustled some jimmies. It's all part of the cat and mouse game we play lol

Avran_Sylt · February 23

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Im done you guys can’t see the down sides of a gank build and how that play style is already at a huge disadvantage.

Well it has one of the biggest advantages in the game, so something has to balance out. When you can turn invisible and delete someone in literally seconds, there needs to be counterplay. You don’t get to be invincible and kill everything on a whim.

Why is the counterplay a potion you need to craft.

ToddIngram · February 23

Not everyone is suited to the same play style. If a ganker can't accept that there are counters to their play style, perhaps they should try a brawler or tank or healer instead. So long as invisibility and cloak exist, so should detect pots.

ToddIngram · February 23

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Ultiscrub Gaming wrote: »

Im done you guys can’t see the down sides of a gank build and how that play style is already at a huge disadvantage.

Well it has one of the biggest advantages in the game, so something has to balance out. When you can turn invisible and delete someone in literally seconds, there needs to be counterplay. You don’t get to be invincible and kill everything on a whim.

Why is the counterplay a potion you need to craft.

There are a few detect skills, but none as good as detect pots IMO.

Avran_Sylt · February 23

ToddIngram wrote: »

Not everyone is suited to the same play style. If a ganker can't accept that there are counters to their play style, perhaps they should try a brawler or tank or healer instead. So long as invisibility and cloak exist, so should detect pots.

Generally speaking, if you're actually trying to gank, be an assassin, able to kill the target you're focused on, it's a lot of setup:
- Gear focused either on proc burst or potion use (Anthelmir, Clever Alchemist, Flame blossom is decent), eschewing all survivability in order to get as much damage out at once as possible
- Highest max main stat food
- Sacrificing defensive class lines and abilities for layered damage (Ulfsild's, Tome bearer's - subclassing out of Siphoning's heal)
- All divines
- Vampire (WD out of stealth/cloak and sneak movespeed) and self-lowering your HP for more damage
- pre-buffing out of sight, possibly also using magicka det as well
- leveraging melee martial stun from stealth usually necessitating an alliance health pot to suppress detection while closing in
- Winding up the heavy attack
- Actually having your ult up which does necessitate tagging enemies and fighting for a bit (since the removal of training dummy ult gain)
- Being sure to keep on the rear of the enemy, that they don't block, don't have CC immunity

This can all be cancelled if the enemy is blocking (like people, you shouldn't feel safe standing on a contested resource node all alone without blocking), or they roll-dodge an allies attacks at an inopportune time, or are using a set like Sea Serpents Coil, or Zoal, and ironically Radiant Magelight which prevents the martial melee sneak stun, or If they have an ally nearby that can kill you and res them (with detect pots this is more or less certain), or an NB sitting in cloak popping a detect pot now and then, or perhaps RNG just wasn't in your favor when it all landed and they popped their heal skill and braced.

This is all to try to make a gank variant counter to meta builds. But the meta builds just need a detect pot to counter this build. Not even sacrificing a single ability slot, or GCD, only sacrificing a potion use usually when they would want to use the detect potion anyway.

There's something to be said about using cloak while being in direct combat and how it provides a lot of safety, sure. But in terms of pre-gank setup I despise the current detect pot.

And if the complaint is that this lets the blown up from stealth casual little timmy have a chance against a ganker, little timmy isn't the one who knows enough about PvP or invests enough gold/time into buying them to use them (since you can't buy them for AP like Tri-pots or other potions). These are, for the most part, for players that get salty it's not easy to kill someone. Usually the same players that relax with high defenses being hard to kill themselves, who are still blowing up little timmy, but also preventing little timmy from using cloak too, because they have fun hunting down "easy kills".