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Sorcerer rework, new class, new systems, house building, and various improvements for ESO
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ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »We don’t need combat that involves nearly as many pets as we have players but that’s what we’re seeing. We have to ask ourselves how can Sorc better bring competitiveness to the table and, IMO, that means leaving pets in the past for Sorcs.
We are seeing so many pets because they're popular. The class refreshes should be informed by what players actually like to play and what skills they are actually choosing to use and have chosen to use the entire time. Not by what someone thinks others ought to play.
Sorcs do not have to lose an entire skill line and a main theme to be competitive. Sorcs have been competitive off and on for the entire history of the game.
We’re seeing so many pets yet nearly none of them are Sorc pets; they’re Neceo pets followed by Warden pets .. because those pets are actually effective in their mechanics.
The only Sorcs still running pets are legacy builds and, for the life of me, I can’t imagine why. I get that people might like a particular play style but not one single person in this thread, so far, has demonstrated any meaningful aspect of this play style.
People are just saying “I like pets” but, by the numbers, they don’t measure up at all. It’s not that I want to delete pets “just because”, it’s due to evaluating how they are built into the game, how they function in comparison to the other class abilities Sorcs have to go up against.
Experienced players aren’t running Sorc pets for all the reasons I’ve stated above.
We can have flexibility in play style with Sorcs but we can’t be both a pet class as well as a non-pet class; it’s not working anymore.
Subclassing raised the bar on combat and mechanics.
One suggestion for Sorcs would be a Daedric ability that provides the caster with a reduced feat cost (ie Stam). Sorcs were built as a primary Mag pool class. Over the years they’ve been given some Stam based morphs that supplement Stam based Sorcs but, overall, they’re a Mag class. .. with subclassing the Stamina resource has become over-biased. So much more counterplay is now centered around block, dodge, and break free; much more than it used to be. This puts Stam based builds at an advantage, not only do they have a higher counterplay resources pool but their damage scales off that resource. Sorcs, in general, can’t say the same. We have to allocate into Stam and separately into Mag to scale our output. Pets do nothing for us here and an ability that a Sorc could cast on themselves to, in a sense, make their Stam pool more aligned with current combat would be a big benefit.
Subsequently Sorc damage skill mechanics are lackluster at best. Half of our skills require our opponents to step in stupid, we have one that’s a poorly optimized DoT that’s easily out healed, our execute skill is the worst of them all .. those two pet slots could better serve us as either utility or output.
Our pets are redundant and not useful. The Twlights only benefit is its heal but we have Vibrant Shroud so why do we need the Twilight? It didn’t do anywhere near enough damage for the resource cost. We have to spend to summon then spend again to heal, we’re over paying in resource to use a Twilight when we could have just hit Vibrant Shroud. We don’t need two strong self heals so, again, why keep this? What’s the benefit?
Familiar is even worse, no heal and junk damage for the Mag cost.
Even raising the damage output values on pets won’t help because of how they’re built. They’re unreliable as damage dealers. You can’t specifically manage their output to deal damage in current combat, the damage is too easily avoided no matter what its value is.
For 3,300 Mag there’s a laundry list of available skills which deal FAR more damage and/or provide passive benefits. That’s said, where’s the benefit?
In order for Sorc pets to work in the current game state the Devs would have to completely re-write & re-code whole new mechanics; basically delete the current pet coding and start from scratch. That’s not what the Devs stated was being done and it’s unrealistic to think we could ever get that.
Now, if a Dev comes in here and says “oh, hey, we’re considering completely rebuilding the mechanics of pets”, well then ok, maybe we can talk about how they could work. … but with their current mechanics there’s no way.
So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)? If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.7 -
Faltasë✭✭✭✭
Please no more generic damage types on classes. I dislike it when classes devolve to basic magic damage or physical damage. It's very boring.
XBOX 2015-2019
PC-NA 2019-2022, 2025-present
Please keep fixing the combat. It's good to fix the combat.
Auri-El is the one true God.2 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_player123 wrote: »So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)?
The example you gave isn't even relevant to whether you're an elite player, because even if you replace Matriarch with Vengeance-Matriarch, you still get self-healing, only need one skill slot, and don't have to worry about your pet being killed or canceled by mechanics, or getting stuck in battle because of your pet. You don't even need to immediately consume resources to resummon your pet after reviving, allowing you to get back into battle faster.If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
I don't think there are actually many players using pets, but because one person using a pet blocks the view of many others, there are so many complaints. This might just be survivorship bias.
Because much evidence and data indicate that Sorc's current pet system is terrible and severely hinders its development potential. If we truly want Sorc to improve, we should recognize the facts and abandon the current pet system. It would be better to create a separate general skill for the pet system, or move it to an existing general skill tree, such as Scribing, Mages Guild, or any line that fits the theme. Instead of forcing pets to remain bound to Sorc, making them shackles on Sorc.We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.
"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.3 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »This is a great opportunity for Sorc mains to give suggestions on the layout of skills that we actually need to be competitive.
This is something I plan to do a bit closer to Sorcs rework, similar to what ESO_Nightingale did for warden recently.
Outlining the many issues as best as I can and as in-depth as I can, taking what has been put forward in threads like these to try and consolidate them into a single in-depth thread the devs can utilize when they start to work on the Sorcerer rework.
I'm really looking forward to it.
"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.1 -
Yudo✭✭✭✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.0 -
Malyore✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.
Do damage types matter in PvE? I never recall seeing mention that a fire enemy is resistant to fire, or that an enemy is immune to poison. Do dunmer NPCs have the racial passive?
I know we can spec our build to lean more into one damage type or another. But I mean simply in terms of enemy resistances.1 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I like the Matriarch because it reliably provides the healing not only to me but also to my companion as well. The poster I replied to mentioned Vibrant Shroud, but it's from the Dark magic skill line. The benefits of the current form of that skill line is not worth keeping it for that heal. I threw out the Dark Magic on most of my Sorcs the moment subclassing was available.ESO_player123 wrote: »So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)?
The example you gave isn't even relevant to whether you're an elite player, because even if you replace Matriarch with Vengeance-Matriarch, you still get self-healing, only need one skill slot, and don't have to worry about your pet being killed or canceled by mechanics, or getting stuck in battle because of your pet. You don't even need to immediately consume resources to resummon your pet after reviving, allowing you to get back into battle faster.
If you want the Matriarch to use only one slot, be resummoned automatically, and be reskinned - sure, I'm all for it. But if in the process it loses the healing benefits that it provides to my gameplay now, I do not want that.
Edit:
Oh, and I do have a Zoo sorc that I created once subclassing was added. It's for fun, but I would not want that toon to be basically become undone because all the pet skills are reshuffled/removed in the process of revamping the classes.Edited by ESO_player123 on February 16, 2026 3:23PM1 -
IviRo✭✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »We don’t need combat that involves nearly as many pets as we have players but that’s what we’re seeing. We have to ask ourselves how can Sorc better bring competitiveness to the table and, IMO, that means leaving pets in the past for Sorcs.
We are seeing so many pets because they're popular. The class refreshes should be informed by what players actually like to play and what skills they are actually choosing to use and have chosen to use the entire time. Not by what someone thinks others ought to play.
Sorcs do not have to lose an entire skill line and a main theme to be competitive. Sorcs have been competitive off and on for the entire history of the game.
We’re seeing so many pets yet nearly none of them are Sorc pets; they’re Neceo pets followed by Warden pets .. because those pets are actually effective in their mechanics.
The only Sorcs still running pets are legacy builds and, for the life of me, I can’t imagine why. I get that people might like a particular play style but not one single person in this thread, so far, has demonstrated any meaningful aspect of this play style.
People are just saying “I like pets” but, by the numbers, they don’t measure up at all. It’s not that I want to delete pets “just because”, it’s due to evaluating how they are built into the game, how they function in comparison to the other class abilities Sorcs have to go up against.
Experienced players aren’t running Sorc pets for all the reasons I’ve stated above.
We can have flexibility in play style with Sorcs but we can’t be both a pet class as well as a non-pet class; it’s not working anymore.
Subclassing raised the bar on combat and mechanics.
One suggestion for Sorcs would be a Daedric ability that provides the caster with a reduced feat cost (ie Stam). Sorcs were built as a primary Mag pool class. Over the years they’ve been given some Stam based morphs that supplement Stam based Sorcs but, overall, they’re a Mag class. .. with subclassing the Stamina resource has become over-biased. So much more counterplay is now centered around block, dodge, and break free; much more than it used to be. This puts Stam based builds at an advantage, not only do they have a higher counterplay resources pool but their damage scales off that resource. Sorcs, in general, can’t say the same. We have to allocate into Stam and separately into Mag to scale our output. Pets do nothing for us here and an ability that a Sorc could cast on themselves to, in a sense, make their Stam pool more aligned with current combat would be a big benefit.
Subsequently Sorc damage skill mechanics are lackluster at best. Half of our skills require our opponents to step in stupid, we have one that’s a poorly optimized DoT that’s easily out healed, our execute skill is the worst of them all .. those two pet slots could better serve us as either utility or output.
Our pets are redundant and not useful. The Twlights only benefit is its heal but we have Vibrant Shroud so why do we need the Twilight? It didn’t do anywhere near enough damage for the resource cost. We have to spend to summon then spend again to heal, we’re over paying in resource to use a Twilight when we could have just hit Vibrant Shroud. We don’t need two strong self heals so, again, why keep this? What’s the benefit?
Familiar is even worse, no heal and junk damage for the Mag cost.
Even raising the damage output values on pets won’t help because of how they’re built. They’re unreliable as damage dealers. You can’t specifically manage their output to deal damage in current combat, the damage is too easily avoided no matter what its value is.
For 3,300 Mag there’s a laundry list of available skills which deal FAR more damage and/or provide passive benefits. That’s said, where’s the benefit?
In order for Sorc pets to work in the current game state the Devs would have to completely re-write & re-code whole new mechanics; basically delete the current pet coding and start from scratch. That’s not what the Devs stated was being done and it’s unrealistic to think we could ever get that.
Now, if a Dev comes in here and says “oh, hey, we’re considering completely rebuilding the mechanics of pets”, well then ok, maybe we can talk about how they could work. … but with their current mechanics there’s no way.
So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)? If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.
After reworking all classes, the developers will remove subclasses (I hope you watched the announcement stream about class reworking) either permanently or temporarily in order to rework this system. Based on this information, it should be understood that subclasses are a temporary solution and we need to look at the long term.
Of course, I want the subclasses to be reworked; we all understand that this is an unfinished system, BUT it would be great if the developers were inspired by ideas from FINAL FANTASY - JOB (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Job - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=schinese&id=737589535). To be honest, I initially thought that this would be the case, or that they would take the idea from TES Oblivion.
But at the moment, we have an unfinished idea, which we should be grateful for, as it prompted the developers to review the classes (according to them).Edited by IviRo on February 16, 2026 4:35PM0 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭After reworking all classes, the developers will remove subclasses (I hope you watched the announcement stream about class reworking) either permanently or temporarily in order to rework this system. Based on this information, it should be understood that subclasses are a temporary solution and we need to look at the long term.
I haven't heard this. Where did they say that? I would have thought more would have been said of it if there was even a hint subclassing will be removed.Edited by BretonMage on February 16, 2026 4:46PM1 -
IviRo✭✭✭BretonMage wrote: »After reworking all classes, the developers will remove subclasses (I hope you watched the announcement stream about class reworking) either permanently or temporarily in order to rework this system. Based on this information, it should be understood that subclasses are a temporary solution and we need to look at the long term.
I haven't heard this. Where did they say that? I would have thought more would have been said of it if there was even a hint subclassing will be removed.
0 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BretonMage wrote: »After reworking all classes, the developers will remove subclasses (I hope you watched the announcement stream about class reworking) either permanently or temporarily in order to rework this system. Based on this information, it should be understood that subclasses are a temporary solution and we need to look at the long term.
I haven't heard this. Where did they say that? I would have thought more would have been said of it if there was even a hint subclassing will be removed.
Do you have an approximate time stamp? I'm not that much of a masochist to watch 44 minutes of a video.3 -
Yudo✭✭✭✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.
Do damage types matter in PvE? I never recall seeing mention that a fire enemy is resistant to fire, or that an enemy is immune to poison. Do dunmer NPCs have the racial passive?
I know we can spec our build to lean more into one damage type or another. But I mean simply in terms of enemy resistances.
I am focused on the identity perspective of how elements fit in the concept. How much the damage types matter is secondary to me, so I feel we talking about things from different angles.0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »We don’t need combat that involves nearly as many pets as we have players but that’s what we’re seeing. We have to ask ourselves how can Sorc better bring competitiveness to the table and, IMO, that means leaving pets in the past for Sorcs.
We are seeing so many pets because they're popular. The class refreshes should be informed by what players actually like to play and what skills they are actually choosing to use and have chosen to use the entire time. Not by what someone thinks others ought to play.
Sorcs do not have to lose an entire skill line and a main theme to be competitive. Sorcs have been competitive off and on for the entire history of the game.
We’re seeing so many pets yet nearly none of them are Sorc pets; they’re Neceo pets followed by Warden pets .. because those pets are actually effective in their mechanics.
The only Sorcs still running pets are legacy builds and, for the life of me, I can’t imagine why. I get that people might like a particular play style but not one single person in this thread, so far, has demonstrated any meaningful aspect of this play style.
People are just saying “I like pets” but, by the numbers, they don’t measure up at all. It’s not that I want to delete pets “just because”, it’s due to evaluating how they are built into the game, how they function in comparison to the other class abilities Sorcs have to go up against.
Experienced players aren’t running Sorc pets for all the reasons I’ve stated above.
We can have flexibility in play style with Sorcs but we can’t be both a pet class as well as a non-pet class; it’s not working anymore.
Subclassing raised the bar on combat and mechanics.
One suggestion for Sorcs would be a Daedric ability that provides the caster with a reduced feat cost (ie Stam). Sorcs were built as a primary Mag pool class. Over the years they’ve been given some Stam based morphs that supplement Stam based Sorcs but, overall, they’re a Mag class. .. with subclassing the Stamina resource has become over-biased. So much more counterplay is now centered around block, dodge, and break free; much more than it used to be. This puts Stam based builds at an advantage, not only do they have a higher counterplay resources pool but their damage scales off that resource. Sorcs, in general, can’t say the same. We have to allocate into Stam and separately into Mag to scale our output. Pets do nothing for us here and an ability that a Sorc could cast on themselves to, in a sense, make their Stam pool more aligned with current combat would be a big benefit.
Subsequently Sorc damage skill mechanics are lackluster at best. Half of our skills require our opponents to step in stupid, we have one that’s a poorly optimized DoT that’s easily out healed, our execute skill is the worst of them all .. those two pet slots could better serve us as either utility or output.
Our pets are redundant and not useful. The Twlights only benefit is its heal but we have Vibrant Shroud so why do we need the Twilight? It didn’t do anywhere near enough damage for the resource cost. We have to spend to summon then spend again to heal, we’re over paying in resource to use a Twilight when we could have just hit Vibrant Shroud. We don’t need two strong self heals so, again, why keep this? What’s the benefit?
Familiar is even worse, no heal and junk damage for the Mag cost.
Even raising the damage output values on pets won’t help because of how they’re built. They’re unreliable as damage dealers. You can’t specifically manage their output to deal damage in current combat, the damage is too easily avoided no matter what its value is.
For 3,300 Mag there’s a laundry list of available skills which deal FAR more damage and/or provide passive benefits. That’s said, where’s the benefit?
In order for Sorc pets to work in the current game state the Devs would have to completely re-write & re-code whole new mechanics; basically delete the current pet coding and start from scratch. That’s not what the Devs stated was being done and it’s unrealistic to think we could ever get that.
Now, if a Dev comes in here and says “oh, hey, we’re considering completely rebuilding the mechanics of pets”, well then ok, maybe we can talk about how they could work. … but with their current mechanics there’s no way.
So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)? If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.
After reworking all classes, the developers will remove subclasses (I hope you watched the announcement stream about class reworking) either permanently or temporarily in order to rework this system. Based on this information, it should be understood that subclasses are a temporary solution and we need to look at the long term.
Of course, I want the subclasses to be reworked; we all understand that this is an unfinished system, BUT it would be great if the developers were inspired by ideas from FINAL FANTASY - JOB (https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Job - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=schinese&id=737589535). To be honest, I initially thought that this would be the case, or that they would take the idea from TES Oblivion.
But at the moment, we have an unfinished idea, which we should be grateful for, as it prompted the developers to review the classes (according to them).
I have not watched any streams where they flat out said that subclassing is going to be removed. If that is indeed the case, I feel that I wasted my time leveling the skill lines from other classes again (It's a good thing then that I only did it for 3 or 4 lines). That also brings out the question about the toons created with subclassing in mind (such as Zoo Sorcs). They will be in complete disarray and useless if subclassing is removed.3 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just rewatched that video, nowhere does it say that Subclassing is being removed or rolled back.
@IviRo I have no idea who told you this, but they lied to you. Brian goes in depth to explain how all balance “outliers” existed pre-Subclassing and that the team views the system as a great thing and they have zero intention of rolling it back.
It’s actually one of the first topics brought up in the stream, if not, the very first one.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]4 -
IviRo✭✭✭I just rewatched that video, nowhere does it say that Subclassing is being removed or rolled back.
@IviRo I have no idea who told you this, but they lied to you. Brian goes in depth to explain how all balance “outliers” existed pre-Subclassing and that the team views the system as a great thing and they have zero intention of rolling it back.
It’s actually one of the first topics brought up in the stream, if not, the very first one.
Yes, I missed 30 minutes of the broadcast and got a summary, but now I've reviewed everything, and it was about something completely different, and the person misinterpreted it.
Next time, I'll review everything myself and won't trust others.
I apologize.
I really believed it and began to hope that this system would be redesigned. How sad.
0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just rewatched that video, nowhere does it say that Subclassing is being removed or rolled back.
@IviRo I have no idea who told you this, but they lied to you. Brian goes in depth to explain how all balance “outliers” existed pre-Subclassing and that the team views the system as a great thing and they have zero intention of rolling it back.
It’s actually one of the first topics brought up in the stream, if not, the very first one.
Yes, I missed 30 minutes of the broadcast and got a summary, but now I've reviewed everything, and it was about something completely different, and the person misinterpreted it.
Next time, I'll review everything myself and won't trust others.
I apologize.
I really believed it and began to hope that this system would be redesigned. How sad.
Any redesign I’d like to see, would be a complete removal of passives and a scattering of our Skills throughout the world to be found and learned.
Balance all skills to each other.
Introduce tiered Trainers to the world, like previous games, except have them teach you our weapon skills.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]1 -
Malyore✭✭✭✭✭
✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.
Do damage types matter in PvE? I never recall seeing mention that a fire enemy is resistant to fire, or that an enemy is immune to poison. Do dunmer NPCs have the racial passive?
I know we can spec our build to lean more into one damage type or another. But I mean simply in terms of enemy resistances.
I am focused on the identity perspective of how elements fit in the concept. How much the damage types matter is secondary to me, so I feel we talking about things from different angles.
I'd still like to know the answer, as it's something I truly don't know. Is there a damage type that's better to use in general?
In Skyrim, frost wasn't as effective in general gameplay since there were so many nord NPCs that are resistant to it. I didn't think that same logic applies to ESO, but if it does it'd be good to know.0 -
emeraldshado✭✭✭There should be a summoning class, and Deaderic summoning should be the main focus for that class. A warclock class would be dope. the ulti would be the lord warden model unit.
My sorcerer would have a place-able template to conjure a lightning based hydra head. it spits lightning balls or orbs instead of doing a steady stream of lightning damage.
A place-able circle of power that would buff my sell damage, like Siroria or Olorime, but on a skill bar. I would use this on a keep defense or trial
A Cast [ Orb / ball ] of lightning that on does damage on impact and 3 seconds later generates a lightning nova at targets location. if crystal frags is removed, then this should replace it to keep a cast-able projectile.
cast a passive damage skill that calls down a lightning bolt
If the dragon knight has not kept the fire familiar skill, then the sorcerer should get the floating lightning familiar.
I like the lightning execute, and want to keep it.
I love the teleport ability, though it angers me to no end that a twig can prevent me from moving the full distance when it is considered an object collision. It should just be, teleport max distance, even through objects. this was possible in the year 2000, I would suggest you try the sorceress in diablo II to see what a teleport is like. through walls, through objects. maybe in a quest we get stuck in a wall and the baddie gets away. teleport into a keep and the guards kill you... maybe not allowable in cyrodil to teleport through the walls, but should also have the verticality to teleport on top of objects.
This is all magika based. I don't need stamina to hold a sword or mace. I use a staff.
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Yudo✭✭✭✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.
Do damage types matter in PvE? I never recall seeing mention that a fire enemy is resistant to fire, or that an enemy is immune to poison. Do dunmer NPCs have the racial passive?
I know we can spec our build to lean more into one damage type or another. But I mean simply in terms of enemy resistances.
I am focused on the identity perspective of how elements fit in the concept. How much the damage types matter is secondary to me, so I feel we talking about things from different angles.
I'd still like to know the answer, as it's something I truly don't know. Is there a damage type that's better to use in general?
In Skyrim, frost wasn't as effective in general gameplay since there were so many nord NPCs that are resistant to it. I didn't think that same logic applies to ESO, but if it does it'd be good to know.
There are only slight variation in resistances that do not make a big difference. Vamps will take increased fire damage that can make a diff. Otherwise damage types are usually more a source of status effects which ppl use to try complete their builds with. Each have their benefits. For example you often see some form of physical damage to get sundered. Magic damage leans more towards recovery right now, and fits well in Dark magic for example which is heavily recovery both in skills and passives.
I think classes having a primary element but also a source of variation adds both to flavour and building these options.
The class passives usually have a form of increase to damage type modifiers and some sets can further push that, so could be relevant from that perspective. Is also good tool for balance. In terms of resistances, other than vamp like mentioned, I think not much.
Edit: I guess I am mainly talking about your own resistances and pvp. Dealing damage types in pve to targets has no meaning as long as you have enough pen for the armor they have.Edited by Yudo on February 17, 2026 8:51AM0 -
Yudo✭✭✭✭
To me the magic type adds flavor to identity instead of class = element. Don't want the sorc to be a lightning only class.
But I was not necessarily in fav of magic only or more magic, just a balance. For me either would be welcome at this point since we already have storm calling.
Do damage types matter in PvE? I never recall seeing mention that a fire enemy is resistant to fire, or that an enemy is immune to poison. Do dunmer NPCs have the racial passive?
I know we can spec our build to lean more into one damage type or another. But I mean simply in terms of enemy resistances.
I am focused on the identity perspective of how elements fit in the concept. How much the damage types matter is secondary to me, so I feel we talking about things from different angles.
I'd still like to know the answer, as it's something I truly don't know. Is there a damage type that's better to use in general?
In Skyrim, frost wasn't as effective in general gameplay since there were so many nord NPCs that are resistant to it. I didn't think that same logic applies to ESO, but if it does it'd be good to know.
Technically nords do have more frost resistance from their passives, but there is no such a thing as Nord meta for certain content that I know of, I dont think it matters that much. But it adds that flavour and identity.
Edit: Though probably only relevant for your own survival. Not relevant in PvE content for dealing damageEdited by Yudo on February 16, 2026 11:34PM0 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
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How?your going to get a useless class that is bad at both spell casting and pets that suck.
Why?Unless ZOS is gonna give Sorcerer another skill line or two to accommodate both play styles they have to choose battle mage or summoner.
Why?The Sorcerer can not continue to be pulled in two different directions at once
You have 3 class skill lines,18 skills and 15 passives by trying to accommodate both pet sorcerers and non pet sorcs your essentially splitting the class in half so at BEST your gonna have 6 or 7 pet related skills and 6 or 7 other rando skills.
Currently Sorcerer is a battlemage, spell slinging type class with pets tacked on and a few kinda random skills thrown in.
Once again the refresh either needs to make Sorcerer a true "Summoner" class with more pets skill and other synergies where the class revolves around combat pets.
OR
Drop Daedric Summoning all together an give the pets to Necromancer and give the Sorcerer more class utility and dps options just like every other class has.
Necromancer should be the summoner/pet class it was fine on release when Necromancer wasn't a thing but now Sorcerer having pets is kinda dumb and its strange how Necromancer doesn't have any permanent summons just reskin the Storm Atro, Familiar, and the Twilight and give those skills to the Necromancer.Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.6 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »We don’t need combat that involves nearly as many pets as we have players but that’s what we’re seeing. We have to ask ourselves how can Sorc better bring competitiveness to the table and, IMO, that means leaving pets in the past for Sorcs.
We are seeing so many pets because they're popular. The class refreshes should be informed by what players actually like to play and what skills they are actually choosing to use and have chosen to use the entire time. Not by what someone thinks others ought to play.
Sorcs do not have to lose an entire skill line and a main theme to be competitive. Sorcs have been competitive off and on for the entire history of the game.
We’re seeing so many pets yet nearly none of them are Sorc pets; they’re Neceo pets followed by Warden pets .. because those pets are actually effective in their mechanics.
The only Sorcs still running pets are legacy builds and, for the life of me, I can’t imagine why. I get that people might like a particular play style but not one single person in this thread, so far, has demonstrated any meaningful aspect of this play style.
People are just saying “I like pets” but, by the numbers, they don’t measure up at all. It’s not that I want to delete pets “just because”, it’s due to evaluating how they are built into the game, how they function in comparison to the other class abilities Sorcs have to go up against.
Experienced players aren’t running Sorc pets for all the reasons I’ve stated above.
We can have flexibility in play style with Sorcs but we can’t be both a pet class as well as a non-pet class; it’s not working anymore.
Subclassing raised the bar on combat and mechanics.
One suggestion for Sorcs would be a Daedric ability that provides the caster with a reduced feat cost (ie Stam). Sorcs were built as a primary Mag pool class. Over the years they’ve been given some Stam based morphs that supplement Stam based Sorcs but, overall, they’re a Mag class. .. with subclassing the Stamina resource has become over-biased. So much more counterplay is now centered around block, dodge, and break free; much more than it used to be. This puts Stam based builds at an advantage, not only do they have a higher counterplay resources pool but their damage scales off that resource. Sorcs, in general, can’t say the same. We have to allocate into Stam and separately into Mag to scale our output. Pets do nothing for us here and an ability that a Sorc could cast on themselves to, in a sense, make their Stam pool more aligned with current combat would be a big benefit.
Subsequently Sorc damage skill mechanics are lackluster at best. Half of our skills require our opponents to step in stupid, we have one that’s a poorly optimized DoT that’s easily out healed, our execute skill is the worst of them all .. those two pet slots could better serve us as either utility or output.
Our pets are redundant and not useful. The Twlights only benefit is its heal but we have Vibrant Shroud so why do we need the Twilight? It didn’t do anywhere near enough damage for the resource cost. We have to spend to summon then spend again to heal, we’re over paying in resource to use a Twilight when we could have just hit Vibrant Shroud. We don’t need two strong self heals so, again, why keep this? What’s the benefit?
Familiar is even worse, no heal and junk damage for the Mag cost.
Even raising the damage output values on pets won’t help because of how they’re built. They’re unreliable as damage dealers. You can’t specifically manage their output to deal damage in current combat, the damage is too easily avoided no matter what its value is.
For 3,300 Mag there’s a laundry list of available skills which deal FAR more damage and/or provide passive benefits. That’s said, where’s the benefit?
In order for Sorc pets to work in the current game state the Devs would have to completely re-write & re-code whole new mechanics; basically delete the current pet coding and start from scratch. That’s not what the Devs stated was being done and it’s unrealistic to think we could ever get that.
Now, if a Dev comes in here and says “oh, hey, we’re considering completely rebuilding the mechanics of pets”, well then ok, maybe we can talk about how they could work. … but with their current mechanics there’s no way.
So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)? If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.
Then I would question why you’re using the Twilight to heal versus just using Vibrant Shroud? It’s a strong self heal that doesn’t require the Twilight. Yes, I know it’s a Dark Magic skill but it’s a self heal. You said you run the Twilight to heal when you’re playing solo, that’s precisely what Shroud does.
Sorcs don’t need two skills that two nearly the same thing spread across two skill lines. you chose to get rid of Dark Magic, I did too. I don’t find it particularly useful, but I don’t find Daedric Summoning useful either. I can Scribe skills that are far more effective than any Sorc pet and that’s even before the bad AI and mechanics Sorc pets are plagued with.
This is why many of us cite experienced players because we’ve played the game, and the class, enough to understand what is redundant and what is useful & brings value.
I can appreciate that you’re a casual player and might like the Twilight but asking everyone who plays as a Sorc to have to live with a sub par ability, like Twilight, that you’re using for a self heal when Sorcs already have a strong self heal without the pets doesn’t really make any sense.
The main point of re-working the Sorc class is to help encourage players to actually play and build a fully Sorc class as opposed to just subclassing everything.
Currently, non subclassed Sorc builds aren’t as competitive.
A suggestion was given to take Sorc pets and place them into a separate conjuration line, which I think is phenomenal. This way, if someone wanted to run pets they still could. If someone wants to play a class build that’s not competitive, that should be their choice but it shouldn’t mean making the entire Sorc class non-competitive just to accommodate that.Edited by NxJoeyD on February 17, 2026 11:28PM3 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
How?your going to get a useless class that is bad at both spell casting and pets that suck.
Why?Unless ZOS is gonna give Sorcerer another skill line or two to accommodate both play styles they have to choose battle mage or summoner.
Why?The Sorcerer can not continue to be pulled in two different directions at once
You have 3 class skill lines,18 skills and 15 passives by trying to accommodate both pet sorcerers and non pet sorcs your essentially splitting the class in half so at BEST your gonna have 6 or 7 pet related skills and 6 or 7 other rando skills.
Currently Sorcerer is a battlemage, spell slinging type class with pets tacked on and a few kinda random skills thrown in.
Once again the refresh either needs to make Sorcerer a true "Summoner" class with more pets skill and other synergies where the class revolves around combat pets.
OR
Drop Daedric Summoning all together an give the pets to Necromancer and give the Sorcerer more class utility and dps options just like every other class has.
Necromancer should be the summoner/pet class it was fine on release when Necromancer wasn't a thing but now Sorcerer having pets is kinda dumb and its strange how Necromancer doesn't have any permanent summons just reskin the Storm Atro, Familiar, and the Twilight and give those skills to the Necromancer.
I think the Dev team realized by the time they released the Necro class that, mechanically, temporary pets would be far more beneficial given how combat (especially PvP & Trials) had been evolving.
I agree. Necros make so much more sense to be the class that carries the “summoning” lore now. I know Sorcs were the OG summoners but times have changed and we all know that the Necro class isn’t going to be removed to reduced just to accommodate Sorcs so I say, let them have it.
We absolutely need more burst based DPS skills. It’s sad seeing Sorcs relegated to either scrounging for World skills or running the ‘ol Heavy Attack build because we have little else.
Sorcs have no skill that can mechanically compete with the likes of Lava Whip, Flame Skull, Deep Fissure, Surprise Attack, Merciless Resolve, Aurora Javelin, Biting Jabs, etc. … every one of those skills scales to high damage outputs and are blisteringly fast to execute their functions and are incredibly reliable at dealing damage. … what do we have? Daedric Curse which is a staggered DoT that anyone who can count to 3 & 8 can just burst heal through .. and Crystal Frags, a spammable that’s slower than a Social Security recipient. How are we supposed to compete with those mechanics?! The rest of our skills are utility (some of which are good) or ones which place small AoEs on the ground and require someone to stupidly walk into (which nobody does).3 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »We don’t need combat that involves nearly as many pets as we have players but that’s what we’re seeing. We have to ask ourselves how can Sorc better bring competitiveness to the table and, IMO, that means leaving pets in the past for Sorcs.
We are seeing so many pets because they're popular. The class refreshes should be informed by what players actually like to play and what skills they are actually choosing to use and have chosen to use the entire time. Not by what someone thinks others ought to play.
Sorcs do not have to lose an entire skill line and a main theme to be competitive. Sorcs have been competitive off and on for the entire history of the game.
We’re seeing so many pets yet nearly none of them are Sorc pets; they’re Neceo pets followed by Warden pets .. because those pets are actually effective in their mechanics.
The only Sorcs still running pets are legacy builds and, for the life of me, I can’t imagine why. I get that people might like a particular play style but not one single person in this thread, so far, has demonstrated any meaningful aspect of this play style.
People are just saying “I like pets” but, by the numbers, they don’t measure up at all. It’s not that I want to delete pets “just because”, it’s due to evaluating how they are built into the game, how they function in comparison to the other class abilities Sorcs have to go up against.
Experienced players aren’t running Sorc pets for all the reasons I’ve stated above.
We can have flexibility in play style with Sorcs but we can’t be both a pet class as well as a non-pet class; it’s not working anymore.
Subclassing raised the bar on combat and mechanics.
One suggestion for Sorcs would be a Daedric ability that provides the caster with a reduced feat cost (ie Stam). Sorcs were built as a primary Mag pool class. Over the years they’ve been given some Stam based morphs that supplement Stam based Sorcs but, overall, they’re a Mag class. .. with subclassing the Stamina resource has become over-biased. So much more counterplay is now centered around block, dodge, and break free; much more than it used to be. This puts Stam based builds at an advantage, not only do they have a higher counterplay resources pool but their damage scales off that resource. Sorcs, in general, can’t say the same. We have to allocate into Stam and separately into Mag to scale our output. Pets do nothing for us here and an ability that a Sorc could cast on themselves to, in a sense, make their Stam pool more aligned with current combat would be a big benefit.
Subsequently Sorc damage skill mechanics are lackluster at best. Half of our skills require our opponents to step in stupid, we have one that’s a poorly optimized DoT that’s easily out healed, our execute skill is the worst of them all .. those two pet slots could better serve us as either utility or output.
Our pets are redundant and not useful. The Twlights only benefit is its heal but we have Vibrant Shroud so why do we need the Twilight? It didn’t do anywhere near enough damage for the resource cost. We have to spend to summon then spend again to heal, we’re over paying in resource to use a Twilight when we could have just hit Vibrant Shroud. We don’t need two strong self heals so, again, why keep this? What’s the benefit?
Familiar is even worse, no heal and junk damage for the Mag cost.
Even raising the damage output values on pets won’t help because of how they’re built. They’re unreliable as damage dealers. You can’t specifically manage their output to deal damage in current combat, the damage is too easily avoided no matter what its value is.
For 3,300 Mag there’s a laundry list of available skills which deal FAR more damage and/or provide passive benefits. That’s said, where’s the benefit?
In order for Sorc pets to work in the current game state the Devs would have to completely re-write & re-code whole new mechanics; basically delete the current pet coding and start from scratch. That’s not what the Devs stated was being done and it’s unrealistic to think we could ever get that.
Now, if a Dev comes in here and says “oh, hey, we’re considering completely rebuilding the mechanics of pets”, well then ok, maybe we can talk about how they could work. … but with their current mechanics there’s no way.
So, if elite players do not use pets, they should be removed completely from the class? What about "filthy casuals" like me who use Matriarch for healing while playing solo (dungeons included)? If players have not been using Sorc pets as you claim, you would not be seeing so many complaints about "flappies" on the forums.
We now have subclassing. If you do not like the Daedric Summoning line, throw it out and substitute it with some other line that suits your needs. There is absolutely no need to ruin the gameplay for others.
Then I would question why you’re using the Twilight to heal versus just using Vibrant Shroud? It’s a strong self heal that doesn’t require the Twilight. Yes, I know it’s a Dark Magic skill but it’s a self heal. You said you run the Twilight to heal when you’re playing solo, that’s precisely what Shroud does.
Sorcs don’t need two skills that two nearly the same thing spread across two skill lines. you chose to get rid of Dark Magic, I did too. I don’t find it particularly useful, but I don’t find Daedric Summoning useful either. I can Scribe skills that are far more effective than any Sorc pet and that’s even before the bad AI and mechanics Sorc pets are plagued with.
This is why many of us cite experienced players because we’ve played the game, and the class, enough to understand what is redundant and what is useful & brings value.
I can appreciate that you’re a casual player and might like the Twilight but asking everyone who plays as a Sorc to have to live with a sub par ability, like Twilight, that you’re using for a self heal when Sorcs already have a strong self heal without the pets doesn’t really make any sense.
The main point of re-working the Sorc class is to help encourage players to actually play and build a fully Sorc class as opposed to just subclassing everything.
Currently, non subclassed Sorc builds aren’t as competitive.
A suggestion was given to take Sorc pets and place them into a separate conjuration line, which I think is phenomenal. This way, if someone wanted to run pets they still could. If someone wants to play a class build that’s not competitive, that should be their choice but it shouldn’t mean making the entire Sorc class non-competitive just to accommodate that.
To answer the bolded parts:
I use Matriarch because it reliably heals my companion as well, does more healing, takes boss's attention away occasionally, and does not belong to the skill like that I would not use otherwise. Oh, and it also does a bit of damage on the side.
If they change Matriarch to some other ability that a) heals me AND my companion b) takes one slot c) does not belong to a skill line that is so useless that most Sorcs just substitute it with something else (there was a poll here at some point, and DarkMagic was a top contender for a skill rework), I will take it.Edited by ESO_player123 on February 18, 2026 6:23AM0 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorcs don’t need two skills that two nearly the same thing spread across two skill lines. you chose to get rid of Dark Magic, I did too. I don’t find it particularly useful, but I don’t find Daedric Summoning useful either. I can Scribe skills that are far more effective than any Sorc pet and that’s even before the bad AI and mechanics Sorc pets are plagued with.
This is why many of us cite experienced players because we’ve played the game, and the class, enough to understand what is redundant and what is useful & brings value.
I can appreciate that you’re a casual player and might like the Twilight but asking everyone who plays as a Sorc to have to live with a sub par ability, like Twilight, that you’re using for a self heal when Sorcs already have a strong self heal without the pets doesn’t really make any sense.
The main point of re-working the Sorc class is to help encourage players to actually play and build a fully Sorc class as opposed to just subclassing everything.
Currently, non subclassed Sorc builds aren’t as competitive.
A suggestion was given to take Sorc pets and place them into a separate conjuration line, which I think is phenomenal. This way, if someone wanted to run pets they still could. If someone wants to play a class build that’s not competitive, that should be their choice but it shouldn’t mean making the entire Sorc class non-competitive just to accommodate that.
As ESO_player said, the Matriach ability is unique because it also heals one's companion anywhere they may be on the battlefield provided they're not too far away, damages and provides useful distraction when there are a lot of adds. It is therefore useful in soloing with a companion. It's saved me when I've been solo and hard-CC'ed.
If Sorcs are less competitive as they stand, the solution is to update the effectiveness of their skills, or to address pain points within the skill lines, not to replace skill lines wholesale. Suggestions like:
- Improve the effectiveness of the other morph, the Twilight Tormentor;
- Let one-pet sorcs be as effective as two-pet sorcs;
- Let the Twilight rest on the ground when not in motion. Etc.
And no, I do not like the Dark Magic aspect of the Sorc; I loathe the aesthetic, and it has so far been, with the exception of Crystal Fragments, pretty useless for DPS.
I've played a lightning and daedric summoning mage since TES Skyrim, and having the two skill lines in a class work exceptionally well. The mage calling down powerful lightning magic, while aided by daedric entities, makes perfect thematic sense. While I wholeheartedly support the calls for greater emphasis on the lightning aspect of the class, I equally strongly object against the calls for a replacement of the daedric summoning line.2 -
Lekjih✭✭✭BretonMage wrote: »
As ESO_player said, the Matriach ability is unique because it also heals one's companion anywhere they may be on the battlefield provided they're not too far away, damages and provides useful distraction when there are a lot of adds. It is therefore useful in soloing with a companion. It's saved me when I've been solo and hard-CC'ed.
If Sorcs are less competitive as they stand, the solution is to update the effectiveness of their skills, or to address pain points within the skill lines, not to replace skill lines wholesale. Suggestions like:
- Improve the effectiveness of the other morph, the Twilight Tormentor;
- Let one-pet sorcs be as effective as two-pet sorcs;
- Let the Twilight rest on the ground when not in motion. Etc.
And no, I do not like the Dark Magic aspect of the Sorc; I loathe the aesthetic, and it has so far been, with the exception of Crystal Fragments, pretty useless for DPS.
I've played a lightning and daedric summoning mage since TES Skyrim, and having the two skill lines in a class work exceptionally well. The mage calling down powerful lightning magic, while aided by daedric entities, makes perfect thematic sense. While I wholeheartedly support the calls for greater emphasis on the lightning aspect of the class, I equally strongly object against the calls for a replacement of the daedric summoning line.
This. We can't just cut off half a class for everyone because one person, or six vocal ones, don't like it. It needs a buff, not removal.
I've recently gone and made a baby sorc to play on as pure sorc and it's surprisingly bursty at times, but spines not hitting flying enemies reduces damage. I would change that. As someone who likes rocks and crystals, dinosaurs and rainstorms in real life, I've just been roleplaying her around Tamriel as a witch. Much fun. Pets should be viable in trials. Even if it makes the tanks question what they're taunting. Fun playstyles shouldn't be penalised. It is a game. It is supposed to be fun! I also don't thing necros are summoners the same way sorcs are. Sorcs have a contract and a permanent 'friend', wardens summon essence and make a permanent magic thrall essentially, while necros use bodies and throw them around untill they rot, collapse and disintegrate. I don't want to see scamps, clannfear, matriarch or storm atro on a necro base class, because necros revolve around corpse use, and sorc pets do not. That's like putting winter's embrace on a dk because fire and ice both temperature based elements.
Removing things wholesale is terrible for the health of the game - it will never go down well with everyone, because someone out there loves what you hate in a class. In terms of ZOS' bottom line, do the roleplayers or elite players spend more money on the game. I've met roleplayers with every house, costume, mount, bought 4k crown crates for a mount to roleplay with, and endgamers who proudly declare they only spend on eso plus (and only during an active prog!), but they stream trials every night and give the game publicity. Both are needed for the game's longevity. Driving away players by deleting their favourite pet from their favourite class isn't great.671d played, 257 on a Warden.
Lucent clannfear suggestion sketch on my profile5 -
Malyore✭✭✭✭✭
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How?your going to get a useless class that is bad at both spell casting and pets that suck.
Why?Unless ZOS is gonna give Sorcerer another skill line or two to accommodate both play styles they have to choose battle mage or summoner.
Why?The Sorcerer can not continue to be pulled in two different directions at once
You have 3 class skill lines,18 skills and 15 passives by trying to accommodate both pet sorcerers and non pet sorcs your essentially splitting the class in half so at BEST your gonna have 6 or 7 pet related skills and 6 or 7 other rando skills.
How would adding dual functionality to skills/passives, or making diverse morphs lessen the amount of skills available to each playstyle?2 -
IviRo✭✭✭It would be cool if, instead of pets, we could summon weapons for 1 minute that would fight on our side, like Celestial Mage or Morkuldin's set.
Two-handed weapons, swords and shields, dual wielding, and so on.
I think it would be logical and also consistent with Lore: Conjuration
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