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The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've done enough Infinite Archive to get enough of its currency to purchase one lead. I don't like IA particularly, so for me it's not a viable avenue for leads. I'm glad people who do have that currency can use it for leads if they want to, though. Same with PvP currency and leads bought with that. I just think drop based leads don't need to have such punishing rng, especially for the very first find. It doesn't encourage game play for me.
You know I'm generally not too fond of being "encouraged" to do things I don't care for in a game, shiny digital clutter as a reward or not
I'm also not visiting the Archive too often. It actually works well for levelling companions - but I've already levelled all to maximum that I care for. So I don't really have any reason to go there anymore, except for the occasional daily endeavour or such, if I feel like doing it that day.
What do you think about having all those different currencies, by the way? I've heard people saying they find it rather confusing.
Oh, and while we're at it: I've read that the Night Market will have its own lorebooks! Now that does "worry" me a little, since it's not sure whether this content will become permanent some day - if it vanishes forever, the lorebooks will also be gone, with no way of obtaining them after that day. Unless they put them somewhere else, but I'm not too optimistic about that.Of course Mannimarco would have such an amulet! But let's say the sarcophagus is similarly enchanted. I believe Mannimarco clever enough to figure out a way to keep box and contents together forever.
Why would one even enchant an amulet that randomly vanishes and appears again somewhere else - that basically teleports on its own? I can understand it vanishing - making it easier to hide, not even leaving some magical trace (would probably have been very practical to avoid being caught practicing necromancy back on Artaeum), but what use does it have if it randomly appears who knows where, not easily to be found again?!
Same could be said about the sarcophagus - also, think of all the uncomfortable places it could appear at!
Of course now I'm wondering what else could be subjected to that enchantment - furniture? Pants?Who, funnily enough, is the only Daedric Prince I come even close to liking.
Her spheres are twilight, liminality, fate, prophecy, mystery... and she actually cares for the Dunmer. There are indeed parallels there.
Now I'm wondering which time of day they attributed to Sil in that daytime control furnishing... Well, doesn't fit completely:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-misc-Chronometer_of_the_Tribunal.png
Interesting gestures, by the way. Wondering whether they were drawn like that for aesthetics only, or whether someone hid some meaning in them. Vivec's could be interpreted as "as above, so below", for example, which is a Hermetic Principle from the Smaragdine Table (9th century). Or it could be supposed to be a Mudra. That's what I would have done for their Temple depictions, considering the real world backgrounds so present in Dunmer lore.I think the overall quests haven't been well-served by the general "quippiness" that is everywhere in modern U.S. culture these days. That, and memes, have really done a number on people's abilities to have straight-forward and sincere interactions, at least online.
It'd be strange if what was supposed to be - or at least once was - an epic narration would be treated like some social media post. A good fantasy story obviously needs more care than just posting a one-liner about your lunch on Twitter.But I won't wander too far down the road of what I think of social media (and yes, I'm aware these forums are a form of social media).
At least in my country they somehow differenciate between forums and things like Facebook or Twitter. I don't know which parameters they use to make that distinction, but I have the feeling it's about where the focus lies - on having discussions, or on compactly showcasing yourself and your opinion (through a profile, for example). Though it's correct of course that the discussion aspect of forums... might sometimes not be completely met nowadays. Too often I see people loudly proclaiming their opinion on a thing (in earnest - not as a snobby wizard lord
), without nuances, without interest in an actual discussion. No interest in hearing about other people's view, no interest in broadening one's horizon and learning altogether, it feels to me. It's stagnation and leads to nothing.Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily want to play a game that was all dark and gloomy all the time, either.
Oh, I would
But I understand that a big game also needs to appeal to others, so balance matters.So, when was it that the Great Mage abandoned the guild in disgust because it had become too bureaucratic? Or was it too focused on rank? Because maybe he sees what the guild is like these days and has washed his hands of it. We don't know exactly what he does with his time, but it's possible he's too busy to babysit the guild anyway.
According to lore, he abandoned the guild because it didn't really follow his ideal of making magic accessible to everyone anymore - some time before ESO takes place, though I'm not entirely sure when it was. I think at the beginning of ESO he's supposed to have more or less just returned. Though that's also already 10 years ago now Unless we're really supposed to believe that only 1 year had passed between the base game story and Solstice.
Then again, he is a very busy man, of course. Whatever he's doing all day. Except for getting himself imprisoned by evil cultists for, uhm, on purpose.I think he feels like Samara has a point, and she's just one person (guess he doesn't realize it's Sanguine). Plus, he has us handle it. She also isn't being disruptive, at least not over where Kuzam-jo hangs out, so he might be trying to really embody Mara's virtues by not making a fuss. I don't find it as implausible as you do that Mara's teachings would lead to him allowing a single Sanguine worshipper to participate in the festivities.
At the beginning he might think it's just a single person trying to cause trouble, but later, when blood and cursed instruments with potentially deadly effects are involved, we should be able to tell him in detail, and then I'd be surprised if he'd still be unbothered by it.
Well, as I said, the current version is still better than the original one from PTS, at least.He doesn't even admit to doubt in his journals, which is where you would expect someone to express such feelings.
Maybe he's aware that in Tamriel, private journals always end up lost and read by the VestigeI am a fiction writer, but when it comes to using characters I didn't create, it's always more difficult. Young Vanus might be easier, but I still think I would make him more carefree than he might be, considering his childhood.
He has a horrible past, but why would he not have his carefree moments? The human brain (and I guess a mer's brain won't be much different) is quite skilled in pushing bad memories aside, at least for periods of time. Of course we don't know how it had been in his case - though books usually describe him as having been a rather sunny, cheerful person - , in the end, there are no clear sources, so it's up to personal interpretation.I would just assume the ship had taken them to their destination and returned to Solstice, ready for its next cargo.
Within the few minutes it takes to walk from Sunport Harbor into the city and then back to the harbor?I think it would be nice if they did show up some place in game, simply because having them totally disappear until they're next needed makes for a strange world indeed. Stranger, that is. Tamriel is pretty odd.
Now I'm really wondering whether anyone has checked that. Maybe they can be found on Eyevea? Then again, someone would probably have already included that at UESP.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I've done enough Infinite Archive to get enough of its currency to purchase one lead. I don't like IA particularly, so for me it's not a viable avenue for leads. I'm glad people who do have that currency can use it for leads if they want to, though. Same with PvP currency and leads bought with that. I just think drop based leads don't need to have such punishing rng, especially for the very first find. It doesn't encourage game play for me.
What do you think about having all those different currencies, by the way? I've heard people saying they find it rather confusing.
I'm not bothered by it. Every MMO I've played that has been around long enough ends up in the same state: lots of different currencies. Compared to LotRO's currency tab, ESO's is positively minimalist.Oh, and while we're at it: I've read that the Night Market will have its own lorebooks! Now that does "worry" me a little, since it's not sure whether this content will become permanent some day - if it vanishes forever, the lorebooks will also be gone, with no way of obtaining them after that day. Unless they put them somewhere else, but I'm not too optimistic about that.
That would be a shame if those lore books disappeared if the Night Market doesn't land well. I intend to try out the Night Market, but I can't say how well I'll like it or how often I'll want to be in it, to say nothing of how difficult it might be to find those lore books. Well, as with everything else, we'll see!Of course Mannimarco would have such an amulet! But let's say the sarcophagus is similarly enchanted. I believe Mannimarco clever enough to figure out a way to keep box and contents together forever.
Why would one even enchant an amulet that randomly vanishes and appears again somewhere else - that basically teleports on its own? I can understand it vanishing - making it easier to hide, not even leaving some magical trace (would probably have been very practical to avoid being caught practicing necromancy back on Artaeum), but what use does it have if it randomly appears who knows where, not easily to be found again?!
Same could be said about the sarcophagus - also, think of all the uncomfortable places it could appear at!
Of course now I'm wondering what else could be subjected to that enchantment - furniture? Pants?
Disappearing pants...that could make for some interesting party conversations! Perhaps the fading out of existence aspect of the enchantment was an unfortunate by-product of all the other enchantments he put on it. Like mixing alchemy ingredients can sometimes produce a potion with both positive and negative effects.Who, funnily enough, is the only Daedric Prince I come even close to liking.
Her spheres are twilight, liminality, fate, prophecy, mystery... and she actually cares for the Dunmer. There are indeed parallels there.
Now I'm wondering which time of day they attributed to Sil in that daytime control furnishing... Well, doesn't fit completely:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-misc-Chronometer_of_the_Tribunal.png
Interesting gestures, by the way. Wondering whether they were drawn like that for aesthetics only, or whether someone hid some meaning in them. Vivec's could be interpreted as "as above, so below", for example, which is a Hermetic Principle from the Smaragdine Table (9th century). Or it could be supposed to be a Mudra. That's what I would have done for their Temple depictions, considering the real world backgrounds so present in Dunmer lore.
There probably is some level of meaning to their gestures--seems too detailed to be otherwise--but whether or not it aligns with any real-world backgrounds I couldn't say.I think the overall quests haven't been well-served by the general "quippiness" that is everywhere in modern U.S. culture these days. That, and memes, have really done a number on people's abilities to have straight-forward and sincere interactions, at least online.
It'd be strange if what was supposed to be - or at least once was - an epic narration would be treated like some social media post. A good fantasy story obviously needs more care than just posting a one-liner about your lunch on Twitter.
I agree, but Twitter quippy writing seems to be leaking over into other things. Or, just in general, that kind of show-offy writing because everyone's screaming for attention.But I won't wander too far down the road of what I think of social media (and yes, I'm aware these forums are a form of social media).
At least in my country they somehow differenciate between forums and things like Facebook or Twitter. I don't know which parameters they use to make that distinction, but I have the feeling it's about where the focus lies - on having discussions, or on compactly showcasing yourself and your opinion (through a profile, for example). Though it's correct of course that the discussion aspect of forums... might sometimes not be completely met nowadays. Too often I see people loudly proclaiming their opinion on a thing (in earnest - not as a snobby wizard lord ), without nuances, without interest in an actual discussion. No interest in hearing about other people's view, no interest in broadening one's horizon and learning altogether, it feels to me. It's stagnation and leads to nothing.
I agree. More than that I don't really want to say, for various reasons.
Of course you would! Yes, we definitely need the balance. I don't want all of one type of story telling, or setting, or npc. Variety and balance--shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, right? So, when was it that the Great Mage abandoned the guild in disgust because it had become too bureaucratic? Or was it too focused on rank? Because maybe he sees what the guild is like these days and has washed his hands of it. We don't know exactly what he does with his time, but it's possible he's too busy to babysit the guild anyway.
According to lore, he abandoned the guild because it didn't really follow his ideal of making magic accessible to everyone anymore - some time before ESO takes place, though I'm not entirely sure when it was. I think at the beginning of ESO he's supposed to have more or less just returned. Though that's also already 10 years ago now Unless we're really supposed to believe that only 1 year had passed between the base game story and Solstice.
Then again, he is a very busy man, of course. Whatever he's doing all day. Except for getting himself imprisoned by evil cultists for, uhm, on purpose.
As he might say (in his classic evasive manner): What hasn't he been doing? I get the idea he's fairly hands-off with the guild. He probably still has a lot of pull with them, and perhaps could even sway important guild matters, if he cared enough, but day-to-day guild matters are likely not something he cares about.I think he feels like Samara has a point, and she's just one person (guess he doesn't realize it's Sanguine). Plus, he has us handle it. She also isn't being disruptive, at least not over where Kuzam-jo hangs out, so he might be trying to really embody Mara's virtues by not making a fuss. I don't find it as implausible as you do that Mara's teachings would lead to him allowing a single Sanguine worshipper to participate in the festivities.
At the beginning he might think it's just a single person trying to cause trouble, but later, when blood and cursed instruments with potentially deadly effects are involved, we should be able to tell him in detail, and then I'd be surprised if he'd still be unbothered by it.
I look at it like this: if we choose to not use blood and cursed instruments, we're handling the situation and spiting Sanguine ourselves. If we choose to use blood and cursed instruments, we're on board with Sanguine and wouldn't turn him in to the Mara police...er, priest. Since we can make Sanguine's appearance at the festival harmless, there's no point in involving Kuzam-jo.
I do think, though, that the ability to talk to him if we are concerned should be part of it. He tells us he trusts our judgment, but I was hoping for some more guidance from him on a couple of the matters. Well, at least he gave me three treats to give to Samara, so I didn't have to do any frog business or stealing.
Lol, there is always that!I am a fiction writer, but when it comes to using characters I didn't create, it's always more difficult. Young Vanus might be easier, but I still think I would make him more carefree than he might be, considering his childhood.
He has a horrible past, but why would he not have his carefree moments? The human brain (and I guess a mer's brain won't be much different) is quite skilled in pushing bad memories aside, at least for periods of time. Of course we don't know how it had been in his case - though books usually describe him as having been a rather sunny, cheerful person - , in the end, there are no clear sources, so it's up to personal interpretation.
I didn't say he wouldn't have any carefree moments; I just feel like I would give him a lighter demeanor than would suit him. And for all that he's been described as a sunny, cheerful person, I've not seen that aspect of him in my interactions with him. You could say time (and Mannimarco) obliterated that part of him, I suppose.
A wizard did it!I think it would be nice if they did show up some place in game, simply because having them totally disappear until they're next needed makes for a strange world indeed. Stranger, that is. Tamriel is pretty odd.
Now I'm really wondering whether anyone has checked that. Maybe they can be found on Eyevea? Then again, someone would probably have already included that at UESP.
Maybe I'll make a tour of Eyevea and see. Or maybe I'll forget by the time I next log in to the game.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not bothered by it. Every MMO I've played that has been around long enough ends up in the same state: lots of different currencies. Compared to LotRO's currency tab, ESO's is positively minimalist.
I don't have a problem with it either (though, honestly, I guess I only use half of them regularly anyway). But I have read that some people have no clue what all those different currencies are for and how to obtain them. Perhaps they could add some mouse-over info box with a bit of text about that.That would be a shame if those lore books disappeared if the Night Market doesn't land well. I intend to try out the Night Market, but I can't say how well I'll like it or how often I'll want to be in it, to say nothing of how difficult it might be to find those lore books. Well, as with everything else, we'll see!
There are already a few perma-bugged lorebooks and books only accessible through quests (with their location being locked off after that). I think there's even a new thread about this that was posted this evening. I'd hope they'll understand that it is an important thing especially for lore-focused players, and make those books accessible, and the new ones, too, of course.
I'll definitely try out the Night Market. As for if I'll be able to find all books, or generally, how much (and successfully) I'll participate - I don't know yet. In the un-grouped areas, I'll probably just tag along with other players (How well that will work...?! Probably less of a problem within the first days, because a lot of people will be around, but who knows how it'll look like after a week, same problem as with the Writhing Fortress, basically). In 4-person-grouped areas, I'll try soloing with Azandar. Or perhaps a friend would like to join with his companion; not sure about that yet. I've been told the content was rather hard. We'll see, I guess.
While we're at it: I'm wondering when we'll see the next season announcement stream. It's been a while since the last one and we still have no clue about the stories that will be released in summer, and no info on the events or what ever the Sages Vault will be, either. Considering the first thing was supposed to be released in March, it's slowly getting late, right? At least to me, late announcements make me a little sceptical. Always makes me wonder whether there were difficulties to finish things on time.Disappearing pants...that could make for some interesting party conversations!
I could sell them to Sanguine cultists. Or just to random unsuspecting people,... how do people nowadays call it? "For the lulz"?Perhaps the fading out of existence aspect of the enchantment was an unfortunate by-product of all the other enchantments he put on it. Like mixing alchemy ingredients can sometimes produce a potion with both positive and negative effects.
So he was lucky it was only an amulet, but not some other piece or armor or clothing. Or a chair, considering how early he got into the furniture business.There probably is some level of meaning to their gestures--seems too detailed to be otherwise--but whether or not it aligns with any real-world backgrounds I couldn't say.
I personally enjoy looking at such things. Also when it comes to questions like what some lore bit might have been inspired by, or a furnishing, or whatever. The more exotic and obscure, the better, actually!I agree, but Twitter quippy writing seems to be leaking over into other things. Or, just in general, that kind of show-offy writing because everyone's screaming for attention.
You know what would be attention-inducing and spectacular? A wonderfully written, deep, interesting story touching on a serious topic and/or a question of philosophy. As we've also seen in this very thread, there's a whole bunch of people who still think of Sotha Sil's CWC ending dialogue today - after 9 years; What I haven't seen are people who still praise some quippy joke from High Isle, or Gold Road, or Necrom. Those things might be fun for a moment for some people, but after a week or so, no one thinks about it anymore. There's no lasting impact. No positive memory. No impression that people actually keep in their mind for a long time.
It's funny actually. We get so many "important lessons" presented in writing lately, but they are hardly something that touch people's emotions, so they don't remain in one's memory. They basically have no impact. If I'd try to make people think about a topic, to make them wonder about something and in the progress of contemplating it maybe learn something - about the world, about people, about nature - , then it's clear it needs to appeal to their emotions. People don't keep things in mind long-term that don't touch them. And it doesn't even need to be complicated.Of course you would! Yes, we definitely need the balance. I don't want all of one type of story telling, or setting, or npc. Variety and balance--shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, right?
Shouldn't, if even I, as an evil wizard, can be mindful of other people's interests and tastes, if I care toAs he might say (in his classic evasive manner): What hasn't he been doing?
I really hope that in some future story we'll get to see what he's actually doing all day! And yes, of course I'd like to talk to him, about one thing or another.I look at it like this: if we choose to not use blood and cursed instruments, we're handling the situation and spiting Sanguine ourselves. If we choose to use blood and cursed instruments, we're on board with Sanguine and wouldn't turn him in to the Mara police...er, priest. Since we can make Sanguine's appearance at the festival harmless, there's no point in involving Kuzam-jo.
I do think, though, that the ability to talk to him if we are concerned should be part of it. He tells us he trusts our judgment, but I was hoping for some more guidance from him on a couple of the matters. Well, at least he gave me three treats to give to Samara, so I didn't have to do any frog business or stealing.
I've replayed the quest on another character and my impression honestly is that it feels unfinished. Some dialogues, depending on chosen options, make more sense than others. I also miss that you can't really inform him about the things happening if you get concerned.
And I need to correct myself: What I wrote about that dialogue (love and lust being both important, Sanguine's habits also having his place in life and being a healthy thing, etc) from PTS luckily having been fixed is not completely correct. On PTS, I can remember it showing up in all cases regardless of dialogue choices, and also if you talked to Kuzam-jo inbetween, asking him for his opinion. I thought it had been removed on Live - but that was apparently wrong, and I only didn't get that dialogue on my 1st character because I had chosen to trick the Sanguine cultist in all 3 tasks on that character.
But if you play along with Samara completely (kiss the frog, give her your blood - which seems a very, very unreasonable thing to do if you're interacting with a Daedric Prince, by the way, so I'm not sure why anyone would do that normally - , use the cursed instruments), the Mara priest will conclude the quest with a, from my point of view, too positive/tolerant attitude. I think the text was altered compared to what had been on pts (hard to say because, as I once mentioned, PTS dialogue is sometimes still untranslated, while on Live, I only see the translated version), but it's this now:
"You might be surprised to hear this, but I am happy that the Daedric Prince is getting some attention this holiday. Passion is both fire and light, and harmony only arrives with dedication and patience."
From my point of view, it's really not plausible for a priest of the Divines to say he's happy that a Daedric Prince gets attention and is celebrated. Unless he's secretly a daedra worshipper, that is.I didn't say he wouldn't have any carefree moments; I just feel like I would give him a lighter demeanor than would suit him. And for all that he's been described as a sunny, cheerful person, I've not seen that aspect of him in my interactions with him. You could say time (and Mannimarco) obliterated that part of him, I suppose.
He's probably also quite disillusioned by people/society as a whole. He might have been a more or less still cheerful, optimistic young man with big ideals when he arrived on Tamriel (apart from the Mannimarco problem), with big plans for his guild - only to see over the decades and centuries that it didn't really become what he had in mind.A wizard did it!
I'd like to meet this wizard, though I guess that's not possible since it seems to be a very busy person, considering how often they seem to be involved in all kinds of things.Maybe I'll make a tour of Eyevea and see. Or maybe I'll forget by the time I next log in to the game.
Have you looked? I forgot, of course.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I'm not bothered by it. Every MMO I've played that has been around long enough ends up in the same state: lots of different currencies. Compared to LotRO's currency tab, ESO's is positively minimalist.
I don't have a problem with it either (though, honestly, I guess I only use half of them regularly anyway). But I have read that some people have no clue what all those different currencies are for and how to obtain them. Perhaps they could add some mouse-over info box with a bit of text about that.
Yeah, that would be a good addition. I do remember that back when I first started playing I wasn't entirely sure what the difference was between tel var and alliance points--as in, how to get them, what they were for. Obviously I could tell they were different currencies with different names.That would be a shame if those lore books disappeared if the Night Market doesn't land well. I intend to try out the Night Market, but I can't say how well I'll like it or how often I'll want to be in it, to say nothing of how difficult it might be to find those lore books. Well, as with everything else, we'll see!
There are already a few perma-bugged lorebooks and books only accessible through quests (with their location being locked off after that). I think there's even a new thread about this that was posted this evening. I'd hope they'll understand that it is an important thing especially for lore-focused players, and make those books accessible, and the new ones, too, of course.
I once started a project on my main to go back and find every lore book I missed, only to be hit with the inaccessible ones due to quest-locked locations. Bummed me out. I try to be thorough and look for every scrap of writing as I'm going through an area for the first time, but I miss things all the time. (So, really, guess I'm not that thorough after all!)While we're at it: I'm wondering when we'll see the next season announcement stream. It's been a while since the last one and we still have no clue about the stories that will be released in summer, and no info on the events or what ever the Sages Vault will be, either. Considering the first thing was supposed to be released in March, it's slowly getting late, right? At least to me, late announcements make me a little sceptical. Always makes me wonder whether there were difficulties to finish things on time.
I honestly wasn't expecting any announcement for the next season until the current patch that was on PTS goes live (which date I forget--early March?). Since season 0 doesn't start until April, they might even not have one until after that. It's been a little over the month since the first reveal--I don't think that's all that long. It's an interesting point, though: with seasons being three months (at least that's what this year's seasons look like), how far apart are the annoucements/details about them going to be?
If that expression shows up in game, we'll have you to blame for it!Perhaps the fading out of existence aspect of the enchantment was an unfortunate by-product of all the other enchantments he put on it. Like mixing alchemy ingredients can sometimes produce a potion with both positive and negative effects.
So he was lucky it was only an amulet, but not some other piece or armor or clothing. Or a chair, considering how early he got into the furniture business.
I guess it depends on if he was adding enchantments to those other things. I was thinking with all the effects he put on the amulet the disappearing bit was an unintended consequence. But what you're describing sounds like general enchantment residue possibly cursing anything it happened upon.There probably is some level of meaning to their gestures--seems too detailed to be otherwise--but whether or not it aligns with any real-world backgrounds I couldn't say.
I personally enjoy looking at such things. Also when it comes to questions like what some lore bit might have been inspired by, or a furnishing, or whatever. The more exotic and obscure, the better, actually!
I think it's interesting to speculate on, to be sure, but I simply don't know enough about the specific references you gave to give an informed opinion. I do like learning about what real world culture/history inspired some of the content in the game. Right now, I'm reading this book called Book Curses (by Eleanor Baker) (simply stated, it's about the inscriptions people would write in books warning others to keep their filthy paws off said book; well, you probably know all about book curses). The first section is about curses from antiquity (so not in books as we know them, but on tablets and steles) and the one from Hammurabi's Law Stele references the great god Anu. A couple from the Neo-Assyrian empire reference the god Ashur. Now, I know Ashur in game isn't a god, just a Morag Tong agent (or so we think!), but I thought it was interesting to come across that name.I agree, but Twitter quippy writing seems to be leaking over into other things. Or, just in general, that kind of show-offy writing because everyone's screaming for attention.
You know what would be attention-inducing and spectacular? A wonderfully written, deep, interesting story touching on a serious topic and/or a question of philosophy. As we've also seen in this very thread, there's a whole bunch of people who still think of Sotha Sil's CWC ending dialogue today - after 9 years; What I haven't seen are people who still praise some quippy joke from High Isle, or Gold Road, or Necrom. Those things might be fun for a moment for some people, but after a week or so, no one thinks about it anymore. There's no lasting impact. No positive memory. No impression that people actually keep in their mind for a long time.
It's funny actually. We get so many "important lessons" presented in writing lately, but they are hardly something that touch people's emotions, so they don't remain in one's memory. They basically have no impact. If I'd try to make people think about a topic, to make them wonder about something and in the progress of contemplating it maybe learn something - about the world, about people, about nature - , then it's clear it needs to appeal to their emotions. People don't keep things in mind long-term that don't touch them. And it doesn't even need to be complicated.
That's very well stated, and I do agree. Of course, it's easier to find an emotional attachment to characters we like. People who don't like Sil, for example--does his entire story just seem like so much noise to them? Dialogue they just click through to get to the end? Sometimes I wonder if I'm letting my personal opinion of some of the npcs interfere with my enjoyment of the story. I dislike both Leramil the Wise and Hermaeus Mora so much that I had to grit my teeth to get through the parts of Necrom and Apocrypha that involved them. I don't skip any dialogue the first time I play an area, so I did experience everything they had to say, but I definitely wouldn't rate that chapter very high. I haven't yet played through it on another character, either. Then again, when I was a writing major in college, I was taught to analyze writing ("read as a writer" they called it, and it's a habit I can't quite get rid of; kind of makes it hard sometimes to just enjoy a fiction book when I'm always analyzing) so I don't know. Eh, don't mind me, just musing again.Of course you would! Yes, we definitely need the balance. I don't want all of one type of story telling, or setting, or npc. Variety and balance--shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, right?
Shouldn't, if even I, as an evil wizard, can be mindful of other people's interests and tastes, if I care to
Lol, true, true. Honestly, I don't know how well I would do at game writing; it's such a different beast from the writing I'm well-versed in. I'll say it again: I would love an in-depth article on how a quest gets made, from start to finish.
Let's start a petition! Wait...can't do that. Hmm...well, let's just keep talking about how much we want more Great Mage content! In every thread! That won't irritate anyone, I'm sure.I look at it like this: if we choose to not use blood and cursed instruments, we're handling the situation and spiting Sanguine ourselves. If we choose to use blood and cursed instruments, we're on board with Sanguine and wouldn't turn him in to the Mara police...er, priest. Since we can make Sanguine's appearance at the festival harmless, there's no point in involving Kuzam-jo.
I do think, though, that the ability to talk to him if we are concerned should be part of it. He tells us he trusts our judgment, but I was hoping for some more guidance from him on a couple of the matters. Well, at least he gave me three treats to give to Samara, so I didn't have to do any frog business or stealing.
I've replayed the quest on another character and my impression honestly is that it feels unfinished. Some dialogues, depending on chosen options, make more sense than others. I also miss that you can't really inform him about the things happening if you get concerned.
And I need to correct myself: What I wrote about that dialogue (love and lust being both important, Sanguine's habits also having his place in life and being a healthy thing, etc) from PTS luckily having been fixed is not completely correct. On PTS, I can remember it showing up in all cases regardless of dialogue choices, and also if you talked to Kuzam-jo inbetween, asking him for his opinion. I thought it had been removed on Live - but that was apparently wrong, and I only didn't get that dialogue on my 1st character because I had chosen to trick the Sanguine cultist in all 3 tasks on that character.
But if you play along with Samara completely (kiss the frog, give her your blood - which seems a very, very unreasonable thing to do if you're interacting with a Daedric Prince, by the way, so I'm not sure why anyone would do that normally - , use the cursed instruments), the Mara priest will conclude the quest with a, from my point of view, too positive/tolerant attitude. I think the text was altered compared to what had been on pts (hard to say because, as I once mentioned, PTS dialogue is sometimes still untranslated, while on Live, I only see the translated version), but it's this now:
"You might be surprised to hear this, but I am happy that the Daedric Prince is getting some attention this holiday. Passion is both fire and light, and harmony only arrives with dedication and patience."
From my point of view, it's really not plausible for a priest of the Divines to say he's happy that a Daedric Prince gets attention and is celebrated. Unless he's secretly a daedra worshipper, that is.
Doesn't he say that regardless of how you do the Samara quests? I thought he said the same thing, essentially, to both of my characters, and they chose opposite on how to deal with Samara. (The one who went all-in is not exactly a daedrologist, but she is a scholar, and she does travel with Mirri, so she partook in the name of honest research).
Well, I didn't take it as too lore-breaking, because Kuzam-jo does seem to be a khajiit who accepts all. Perhaps he's more tolerant than most priests of the Divines; perhaps he's just that naive; perhaps he has secret daedric sympathies (there could be several plausible reasons he says that). I don't think it's too conflicting that he differs slightly from what we expect of a priest of the Divines, particularly since he is a priest of Mara rather than one of the mean ones.I didn't say he wouldn't have any carefree moments; I just feel like I would give him a lighter demeanor than would suit him. And for all that he's been described as a sunny, cheerful person, I've not seen that aspect of him in my interactions with him. You could say time (and Mannimarco) obliterated that part of him, I suppose.
He's probably also quite disillusioned by people/society as a whole. He might have been a more or less still cheerful, optimistic young man with big ideals when he arrived on Tamriel (apart from the Mannimarco problem), with big plans for his guild - only to see over the decades and centuries that it didn't really become what he had in mind.
Well, I'm right there with him--people suck!
I'd like for you to meet this wizard, too, and record your interaction.
Oh, I forgot, too! Well, I just don't think of Darien very often. Or Skordo. Or Eyevea. I should treat Bastian and take him there. Wait...he likes the Mages Guild and Artaeum. Which one likes Eyevea? Any of them?
Oh, on the subject of companions...I don't know whether or not you intend to play your NA server character very much, or whether you intend to pick up any companions on him. But! If you do, and if that companion is Azander, then I have some Azander companion gifts you can have, if you want them. I haven't gotten very many companion gifts this festival, which bums me out, because I really wanted to give Bastian and Mirri some gifts (a couple of my characters run with them and do not have max rapport). All of my other characters who have companions have max rapport with them, so those tea sets are just going to sit in my bank until the end of time. Or until I do a bank clean-out and vendor them.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I once started a project on my main to go back and find every lore book I missed, only to be hit with the inaccessible ones due to quest-locked locations. Bummed me out. I try to be thorough and look for every scrap of writing as I'm going through an area for the first time, but I miss things all the time. (So, really, guess I'm not that thorough after all!)
I think it's almost impossible to never miss anything. Especially if there are documents lying around who knows where in the landscape. And as long as one can go search for them later, it's not that bad...
I know there are a few I'll probably never come across in person as they're placed somewhere in a trial - but I can read their contents on UESP, at least. Of course, some people want a completed codex in game, I know; but I'm personally also fine if I can read them somewhere else. The thing that bothers me about missed books is the missed knowledge, not whether they show as found or not found in some menu.I honestly wasn't expecting any announcement for the next season until the current patch that was on PTS goes live (which date I forget--early March?). Since season 0 doesn't start until April, they might even not have one until after that. It's been a little over the month since the first reveal--I don't think that's all that long. It's an interesting point, though: with seasons being three months (at least that's what this year's seasons look like), how far apart are the annoucements/details about them going to be?
I know they wanted to be more flexible with their content and when and how they release it, but in the end, they already told us a rough schedule for the whole year at once anyway, not differently to how it had been some years ago when there was a January reveal telling us about the 1st dungeons and the summer chapter. The only big difference is that now they haven't told us details about many things on the schedule yet. Is this a good decision? I don't know. I personally prefered having more info. If they thought only giving us some names would help with building hype/suspense, I'm not entirely sure whether that worked. Sure, right after the reveal, there had been a speculation thread about what the Sages Vault might be - but people speculated for a few days, and since then no one has ever talked about it again.If that expression shows up in game, we'll have you to blame for it!
I hope not! I'd rather see - I don't know - another amusing poem by Mannimarco? Maybe even one that's truly in verse this time! And no limerick pleaseI guess it depends on if he was adding enchantments to those other things. I was thinking with all the effects he put on the amulet the disappearing bit was an unintended consequence. But what you're describing sounds like general enchantment residue possibly cursing anything it happened upon.
Now I'm wondering: Why do we barely hear of enchanted furniture? There would be many uses.Right now, I'm reading this book called Book Curses (by Eleanor Baker) (simply stated, it's about the inscriptions people would write in books warning others to keep their filthy paws off said book; well, you probably know all about book curses).
Yes, I even made up a few for my own diaries years ago. Found it funny as a teen.The first section is about curses from antiquity (so not in books as we know them, but on tablets and steles) and the one from Hammurabi's Law Stele references the great god Anu. A couple from the Neo-Assyrian empire reference the god Ashur. Now, I know Ashur in game isn't a god, just a Morag Tong agent (or so we think!), but I thought it was interesting to come across that name.
There's lots of Mesopotamian sounding names in Dunmer culture, mostly when it comes to names and terms from Ashlander tribes or back from Velothi times. There are syllables or word fragments that are very common in different Mesopotamian cultures, and Morrowind emulated a lot of that: ahhe, bani, assu, addad, umma, etc. There was the real-world kingdom of Kummuh, for example (in Morrowind we have the Fields of Kummu). There were kings named Ashur-Dan, Adad-nirari, Assurbanipal (who was the son of Assur-ahhe-iddinas), and on Vvardenfell we have the daedric ruins of Assurnabitashpi, Assurdirapal, and TES3 had Ashlander character names like Dunsalipal, Han-Ammu, Dun-Ahhe, Assutlanipal, Zenammu and similar. What might also be interesting is that there was the word tilu, which became "Tel", and means "hill (that a settlement was built on)". So that's probably how Telvanni tower/settlements got the "Tel" in front of their names. And when it comes to the "canton"-style buildings on Vvardenfell, like those in Vivec City or Molag Mar, one could debate whether they were originally planned to look like a Ziggurat, a specific type of Mesopotamian temple building. What's interesting is that they made a stylistic change when it comes to House Dunmer culture, which is heavily inspired by ancient China.That's very well stated, and I do agree. Of course, it's easier to find an emotional attachment to characters we like. People who don't like Sil, for example--does his entire story just seem like so much noise to them? Dialogue they just click through to get to the end?
I don't know, obviously, but lots of people enjoyed Morrowind, CWC and Summerset a lot, and I guess not all of them had a particularly strong interest in the main characters of the stories?Sometimes I wonder if I'm letting my personal opinion of some of the npcs interfere with my enjoyment of the story. I dislike both Leramil the Wise and Hermaeus Mora so much that I had to grit my teeth to get through the parts of Necrom and Apocrypha that involved them. I don't skip any dialogue the first time I play an area, so I did experience everything they had to say, but I definitely wouldn't rate that chapter very high. I haven't yet played through it on another character, either.
There are characters I find really annoying, and they might lower my enjoyment a bit, but it doesn't make such a huge difference in my case, I think. Also, I know I can enjoy stories a lot even if they're not about cultures or regions of Tamriel I care for much, if they are well-written. The writing itself really is the main aspect for me. I don't care much about orcs, for example, but Wrothgar had good writing, so I did enjoy playing though it. And I also enjoy travelling with Isobel despite never having cared for Bretons much.Lol, true, true. Honestly, I don't know how well I would do at game writing; it's such a different beast from the writing I'm well-versed in. I'll say it again: I would love an in-depth article on how a quest gets made, from start to finish.
I think in my case the main "problem" would be that I don't care much for safe writing, so my stories would often probably be too unconventional to be considered suitable for a mass market product And I wouldn't want to adapt to those limitations either. Not nowadays where everything could cause a "scandal".Let's start a petition! Wait...can't do that. Hmm...well, let's just keep talking about how much we want more Great Mage content! In every thread! That won't irritate anyone, I'm sure.
First of all, I want a Vanny houseguest. With at least 93 different lines of dialogue. Is that more or less likely than getting Mannimarco-chained-to-an-altar as a houseguest?Doesn't he say that regardless of how you do the Samara quests? I thought he said the same thing, essentially, to both of my characters, and they chose opposite on how to deal with Samara. (The one who went all-in is not exactly a daedrologist, but she is a scholar, and she does travel with Mirri, so she partook in the name of honest research).
Nah, if you don't support Samara fully, you'll get this instead:
"My little light returns. How was your time with Samara Gautier? I trust it was entertaining? She seemed the amusing sort."
This was the comment I got on my 1st character so I thought they had removed that other reply I had seen on pts.Well, I didn't take it as too lore-breaking, because Kuzam-jo does seem to be a khajiit who accepts all. Perhaps he's more tolerant than most priests of the Divines; perhaps he's just that naive; perhaps he has secret daedric sympathies (there could be several plausible reasons he says that). I don't think it's too conflicting that he differs slightly from what we expect of a priest of the Divines, particularly since he is a priest of Mara rather than one of the mean ones.
He can be interpreted as the very friendly and slightly naive type, yes (if he's truly accepting Samara out of a love for everyone and isn't a daedra worshipper in disguise and only faking being naive). I still wish we could have chosen (optionally) to tell him in more detail about what Samara demanded or what we did, and that would have probably not been that well-received by him. If he truly loves everyone, he would surely be distraught if he heard that Samara caused harm to some people. Even if it was just someone pushing someone else (or giving them a light punch or what ever that animation was supposed to be, after using the cursed instruments).
I also somehow miss seeing consequences of the things we did. Yes, there was this little animation if we used the cursed instruments, but what was is with the frog and cakes, for example? Or the wine/blood thing? I would have expected something to happen in the end. And also, I would have liked to see Samara reacting differently depending on whether we did what she demanded or tried to trick her. It's hard to believe she wouldn't notice the difference between blood and wine, for example. Having choices is awesome, but the real fun is to see the differences the choices make, after all.I'd like for you to meet this wizard, too, and record your interaction.
Probably a Psijic.Oh, I forgot, too! Well, I just don't think of Darien very often. Or Skordo. Or Eyevea. I should treat Bastian and take him there. Wait...he likes the Mages Guild and Artaeum. Which one likes Eyevea? Any of them?
All I know is that Azandar hates both Artaeum and Eyevea. Why are random people even allowed to travel to Artaeum, by the way?Oh, on the subject of companions...I don't know whether or not you intend to play your NA server character very much, or whether you intend to pick up any companions on him. But! If you do, and if that companion is Azander, then I have some Azander companion gifts you can have, if you want them. I haven't gotten very many companion gifts this festival, which bums me out, because I really wanted to give Bastian and Mirri some gifts (a couple of my characters run with them and do not have max rapport). All of my other characters who have companions have max rapport with them, so those tea sets are just going to sit in my bank until the end of time. Or until I do a bank clean-out and vendor them.
Oh, that's a very friendly offer, thanks! But I don't think I really need them. I'm mainly just doing some testing on NA (yet) and if I get into companions there, it will probably be Heart's Week again soon anyway. Unless of course you don't want them to clutter your bank, then you can send them to me, as I still have bank place to clutter left.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I once started a project on my main to go back and find every lore book I missed, only to be hit with the inaccessible ones due to quest-locked locations. Bummed me out. I try to be thorough and look for every scrap of writing as I'm going through an area for the first time, but I miss things all the time. (So, really, guess I'm not that thorough after all!)
I think it's almost impossible to never miss anything. Especially if there are documents lying around who knows where in the landscape. And as long as one can go search for them later, it's not that bad...
I know there are a few I'll probably never come across in person as they're placed somewhere in a trial - but I can read their contents on UESP, at least. Of course, some people want a completed codex in game, I know; but I'm personally also fine if I can read them somewhere else. The thing that bothers me about missed books is the missed knowledge, not whether they show as found or not found in some menu.
Yeah, it's not the checking off the book on a list that motivated me. I wanted to know what I had missed, but I was using the in-game lorebook list as a guide. I could (and probably should) look them up on UESP, but I really would prefer to find and read them in-game. Plus, that way, if they go into my eidetic memory, I can read them again later from in game.I honestly wasn't expecting any announcement for the next season until the current patch that was on PTS goes live (which date I forget--early March?). Since season 0 doesn't start until April, they might even not have one until after that. It's been a little over the month since the first reveal--I don't think that's all that long. It's an interesting point, though: with seasons being three months (at least that's what this year's seasons look like), how far apart are the annoucements/details about them going to be?
I know they wanted to be more flexible with their content and when and how they release it, but in the end, they already told us a rough schedule for the whole year at once anyway, not differently to how it had been some years ago when there was a January reveal telling us about the 1st dungeons and the summer chapter. The only big difference is that now they haven't told us details about many things on the schedule yet. Is this a good decision? I don't know. I personally prefered having more info. If they thought only giving us some names would help with building hype/suspense, I'm not entirely sure whether that worked. Sure, right after the reveal, there had been a speculation thread about what the Sages Vault might be - but people speculated for a few days, and since then no one has ever talked about it again.
I would prefer more details earlier, too. Just giving a bare outline hasn't hyped me up. In fact, until you mentioned it just now, I had forgotten about the Sages Vault. So, yeah, I think more frequent updates on upcoming content would be nice; I just don't know if they'll do that.
There once was a lich from Artaeum... (I know, I know, he wasn't a lich on Artaeum). On the serious side, I wouldn't mind coming across more of Mannimarco's journals. The one in Mor Naril, where he took over from Wormblood, was interesting, but too short. Or even just his notes on some of his experiments and studies--I bet his notes were infused with his special brand of snark.I guess it depends on if he was adding enchantments to those other things. I was thinking with all the effects he put on the amulet the disappearing bit was an unintended consequence. But what you're describing sounds like general enchantment residue possibly cursing anything it happened upon.
Now I'm wondering: Why do we barely hear of enchanted furniture? There would be many uses.
That can be your special enterprise and assist your rise through the Telvanni ranks. Wouldn't Gothren just love an enchanted chair? Think of the business opportunities if you can figure out furniture enchantment! I mean, since you're already going into business with the Worm Cult furnishing emporium, it just makes sense.The first section is about curses from antiquity (so not in books as we know them, but on tablets and steles) and the one from Hammurabi's Law Stele references the great god Anu. A couple from the Neo-Assyrian empire reference the god Ashur. Now, I know Ashur in game isn't a god, just a Morag Tong agent (or so we think!), but I thought it was interesting to come across that name.
There's lots of Mesopotamian sounding names in Dunmer culture, mostly when it comes to names and terms from Ashlander tribes or back from Velothi times. There are syllables or word fragments that are very common in different Mesopotamian cultures, and Morrowind emulated a lot of that: ahhe, bani, assu, addad, umma, etc. There was the real-world kingdom of Kummuh, for example (in Morrowind we have the Fields of Kummu). There were kings named Ashur-Dan, Adad-nirari, Assurbanipal (who was the son of Assur-ahhe-iddinas), and on Vvardenfell we have the daedric ruins of Assurnabitashpi, Assurdirapal, and TES3 had Ashlander character names like Dunsalipal, Han-Ammu, Dun-Ahhe, Assutlanipal, Zenammu and similar. What might also be interesting is that there was the word tilu, which became "Tel", and means "hill (that a settlement was built on)". So that's probably how Telvanni tower/settlements got the "Tel" in front of their names. And when it comes to the "canton"-style buildings on Vvardenfell, like those in Vivec City or Molag Mar, one could debate whether they were originally planned to look like a Ziggurat, a specific type of Mesopotamian temple building. What's interesting is that they made a stylistic change when it comes to House Dunmer culture, which is heavily inspired by ancient China.
I knew you'd be able to pull out a dozen or more references!
There was also an inscription from the early Middle Ages by a monk that referenced Boethius, which made me think of Boethiah, though I don't know there's any real connection in that case. It's just, after seeing Anu and Ashur, my mind was on ESO names. Mostly I find it interesting how long book curses have been a thing, and also what works were deemed worthy of them in their time.
The word tilu becoming 'tel' and meaning hill is interesting when put in context with the Telvanni settlements. I had always assumed the 'tel' part of Tel Mora and such was because the 'tel' was short for Telvanni. Like it was a way for them to let everyone know it belonged to a Telvanni mage. Vivec's palace definitely looks like a ziggurat to me, and I hadn't considered before how architecturally different it is to the usual style of Dunmer building--or at least the style we see in Dunmer settlements. Vivec City itself is quite different (and confusing to me--always getting lost in those cantons since TES3). There's also that lorebook found in the Archcanon's office in Vivec City that talks about Vivec being fascinated by Ebonheart and wanting one on Vvardenfell--it comes across as Vivec being charmed by the architecture of the place.That's very well stated, and I do agree. Of course, it's easier to find an emotional attachment to characters we like. People who don't like Sil, for example--does his entire story just seem like so much noise to them? Dialogue they just click through to get to the end?
I don't know, obviously, but lots of people enjoyed Morrowind, CWC and Summerset a lot, and I guess not all of them had a particularly strong interest in the main characters of the stories?
It's hard to say. I know I had a strong interest in Vivec and Sil (taking them as main characters) and I really came to like Valsirenn. I fully agree those stories were better written than the later ones, but I also know I had a lot more interest in Vvardenfell, Clockwork, and Summerset than I did in, say, Blackwood or High Isle. The Altmer and Dunmer are my favorite ESO races.Sometimes I wonder if I'm letting my personal opinion of some of the npcs interfere with my enjoyment of the story. I dislike both Leramil the Wise and Hermaeus Mora so much that I had to grit my teeth to get through the parts of Necrom and Apocrypha that involved them. I don't skip any dialogue the first time I play an area, so I did experience everything they had to say, but I definitely wouldn't rate that chapter very high. I haven't yet played through it on another character, either.
There are characters I find really annoying, and they might lower my enjoyment a bit, but it doesn't make such a huge difference in my case, I think. Also, I know I can enjoy stories a lot even if they're not about cultures or regions of Tamriel I care for much, if they are well-written. The writing itself really is the main aspect for me. I don't care much about orcs, for example, but Wrothgar had good writing, so I did enjoy playing though it. And I also enjoy travelling with Isobel despite never having cared for Bretons much.
I know Orsinium/Wrothgar is thought of as a high point for the story-telling and writing, but I've never been a huge fan of it. I'm not saying it's bad, but I didn't find it anything special. I think they did a good job representing Orc clan culture and it's nice that, if you play an orc, at least one clan quest has a major difference for you. But the main story, the political one? I found it sort of dull and predictable. There is a lot of good lore, though, what with the museum collection and everything.Lol, true, true. Honestly, I don't know how well I would do at game writing; it's such a different beast from the writing I'm well-versed in. I'll say it again: I would love an in-depth article on how a quest gets made, from start to finish.
I think in my case the main "problem" would be that I don't care much for safe writing, so my stories would often probably be too unconventional to be considered suitable for a mass market product And I wouldn't want to adapt to those limitations either. Not nowadays where everything could cause a "scandal".
I think there'd be more limitations on what you could write than just story ideas. You might be assigned a few specific npcs for the story, for example, and a specific area to put them in. Or maybe not. Maybe it's more broad than that, and they say, "We need twenty side quests for this area" and you could just start pitching ideas. You see, this is why I need that article, because otherwise I'll never know, and I really want to know how it works. *sigh* Doomed to disappointment.Let's start a petition! Wait...can't do that. Hmm...well, let's just keep talking about how much we want more Great Mage content! In every thread! That won't irritate anyone, I'm sure.
First of all, I want a Vanny houseguest. With at least 93 different lines of dialogue. Is that more or less likely than getting Mannimarco-chained-to-an-altar as a houseguest?
A Great Mage houseguest! *swoon* But why stop at 93 lines? Why not 93 full conversations? As far as the likelihood of that versus your Mannimarco idea...I'd say both are leaning towards the highly unlikely section of the probabilty map.Doesn't he say that regardless of how you do the Samara quests? I thought he said the same thing, essentially, to both of my characters, and they chose opposite on how to deal with Samara. (The one who went all-in is not exactly a daedrologist, but she is a scholar, and she does travel with Mirri, so she partook in the name of honest research).
Nah, if you don't support Samara fully, you'll get this instead:
"My little light returns. How was your time with Samara Gautier? I trust it was entertaining? She seemed the amusing sort."
This was the comment I got on my 1st character so I thought they had removed that other reply I had seen on pts.
Ah, I see. I do remember being called his little light, and I quite liked that.Well, I didn't take it as too lore-breaking, because Kuzam-jo does seem to be a khajiit who accepts all. Perhaps he's more tolerant than most priests of the Divines; perhaps he's just that naive; perhaps he has secret daedric sympathies (there could be several plausible reasons he says that). I don't think it's too conflicting that he differs slightly from what we expect of a priest of the Divines, particularly since he is a priest of Mara rather than one of the mean ones.
He can be interpreted as the very friendly and slightly naive type, yes (if he's truly accepting Samara out of a love for everyone and isn't a daedra worshipper in disguise and only faking being naive). I still wish we could have chosen (optionally) to tell him in more detail about what Samara demanded or what we did, and that would have probably not been that well-received by him. If he truly loves everyone, he would surely be distraught if he heard that Samara caused harm to some people. Even if it was just someone pushing someone else (or giving them a light punch or what ever that animation was supposed to be, after using the cursed instruments).
I also somehow miss seeing consequences of the things we did. Yes, there was this little animation if we used the cursed instruments, but what was is with the frog and cakes, for example? Or the wine/blood thing? I would have expected something to happen in the end. And also, I would have liked to see Samara reacting differently depending on whether we did what she demanded or tried to trick her. It's hard to believe she wouldn't notice the difference between blood and wine, for example. Having choices is awesome, but the real fun is to see the differences the choices make, after all.
Well, at first I did expect some kind of remark on me faking the rites/rituals, but then I realized that Samara is stupid drunk and probably not paying a lot of attention. Like, she's swaying on her feet drunk, all the time. Plus, I also figured just having someone play along, in any fashion, made her feel like she'd won.
Oh, undoubtedly. But which one? Oh, what if it's Sil? Or Vanus, but he doesn't want anyone to know he's back in with the Psijics?Oh, I forgot, too! Well, I just don't think of Darien very often. Or Skordo. Or Eyevea. I should treat Bastian and take him there. Wait...he likes the Mages Guild and Artaeum. Which one likes Eyevea? Any of them?
All I know is that Azandar hates both Artaeum and Eyevea. Why are random people even allowed to travel to Artaeum, by the way?
Because the Psijics are reckless?
So Bastian does like Eyevea. I took him there, on my character who doesn't have the max rapport with him. Big old heart icon. I didn't see any sign of Darien or Skordo, but I did stop and chat with each group of three mages representing each race (so twenty-seven little conversations). One of the Dunmer mages says that Sil hopes he can stop by Eyevea for a visit. One of the orc mages says Vanus specifically asked him to come to Eyevea because he wanted to make sure orcs were well-represented. There's a proclamation from Archmagister Vanus reminding all mages that there shall be no fighting and that tithes must be paid. So he was at least involved enough with the Mages Guild to set up rules and guidelines for Eyevea. Sadly, Valaste is still talking about how she'll be fine, she's just tired. Ten years and the poor woman hasn't gotten any sleep!Oh, on the subject of companions...I don't know whether or not you intend to play your NA server character very much, or whether you intend to pick up any companions on him. But! If you do, and if that companion is Azander, then I have some Azander companion gifts you can have, if you want them. I haven't gotten very many companion gifts this festival, which bums me out, because I really wanted to give Bastian and Mirri some gifts (a couple of my characters run with them and do not have max rapport). All of my other characters who have companions have max rapport with them, so those tea sets are just going to sit in my bank until the end of time. Or until I do a bank clean-out and vendor them.
Oh, that's a very friendly offer, thanks! But I don't think I really need them. I'm mainly just doing some testing on NA (yet) and if I get into companions there, it will probably be Heart's Week again soon anyway. Unless of course you don't want them to clutter your bank, then you can send them to me, as I still have bank place to clutter left.
Well, if you don't need them, no sense in them cluttering up your bank, either! I have plenty of bank space to spare, really. It's just, every now and then, I'll look at my bank inventory and say, "What even is all this stuff?" and weed out some items I've forgotten about, or will never use, or can't remember why I kept.
I got enough rapport with Bastian to trigger his second quest, and we saved his sister and the two of them got to reunite. I really, really like the companion quests.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would prefer more details earlier, too. Just giving a bare outline hasn't hyped me up. In fact, until you mentioned it just now, I had forgotten about the Sages Vault.
I hope it will be more than just a kitchen shelf to store herbs Not that I wouldn't appreciate giving everyone a free storage bag for alchemy and cooking ingredients, ESO+ or not, but I'd prefer something more exciting.
But seriously, I suspect it will be more something like a system to organize, sort and collect things, not a completely new thing to do in game. Probably releated to knowledge of some kind. Of course, lore books come to mind first, but I could also imagine it tying in to scribing or antiquities somehow. More a related update-like thing, nothing entirely new. Maybe something related to the Antiquity system, but with books or other documents?
Not sure if not telling us more actually helps. If it's truly something awesome, that's a missed opportunity for hype. But the other way round, if there had been lots of hype without having reliable info, it could also have led to a catastrophe like with the Wall event last year, where people expected who knows what and then found it extremely underwhelming. Giving us clear info would probably have been the best solution.
Looking at the forum, right now I have the impression that almost no one is truly looking forward to or being excited much about what ever might come. There's slight curiosity about the Night Market, from what was seen on pts, and that's it. It's a bit sad, if I now think back to the years where we had a big chapter reveal in January, where there would be ongoing speculations about the details of the story for weeks.There once was a lich from Artaeum... (I know, I know, he wasn't a lich on Artaeum).
What would you even rhyme that with? I only know one about a man from Balmora, but I won't repeat that one hereOn the serious side, I wouldn't mind coming across more of Mannimarco's journals. The one in Mor Naril, where he took over from Wormblood, was interesting, but too short. Or even just his notes on some of his experiments and studies--I bet his notes were infused with his special brand of snark.
I would love that! If it's well-written, that is. I've been in a certain conflict for a while; there are lore topics I'd love to see or read more about, but on the other hand, there's always the danger of it being watered down, trivialized, there being lore mistakes, an incongruent tone, etc.That can be your special enterprise and assist your rise through the Telvanni ranks. Wouldn't Gothren just love an enchanted chair? Think of the business opportunities if you can figure out furniture enchantment! I mean, since you're already going into business with the Worm Cult furnishing emporium, it just makes sense.
An enchanted chair for Gothren? Wonderful idea! I think I'll gift him something like that at the next opportunity, so he won't need to sit on his dremora anymore. I already heard him complaining it was a little uncomfortable, so I suggested to just use an Argonian instead (they can be fed with butter for a few weeks to get fluffier and softer, while dremora obviously don't eat anything as they're no mortals), but for unknown reasons, he rejected that suggestion.I knew you'd be able to pull out a dozen or more references! There was also an inscription from the early Middle Ages by a monk that referenced Boethius, which made me think of Boethiah, though I don't know there's any real connection in that case.
That was also my first association back then, but I'm also not sure whether that's the actual origin for the TES name. As far as I know, the daedric princes as well as the divines were mostly named after roleplay characters of TES Arena devs or similar? And of course we don't know what those were inspired by. Then again, Boethius had a son named Symmachus. That name also shows up in TES lore (with no changes to it, same spelling), related to Barenziah.
While we're at names, Fa-Nuit-Hen (whose name first came up in TES3, in the Lessons of Vivec) interestingly reminds me of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, and Barbas made me think of Barbatos, but I won't get deeper into thatThe word tilu becoming 'tel' and meaning hill is interesting when put in context with the Telvanni settlements. I had always assumed the 'tel' part of Tel Mora and such was because the 'tel' was short for Telvanni. Like it was a way for them to let everyone know it belonged to a Telvanni mage.
I don't know what inspired them, of course, but to me this somehow made sense, considering all other Mesopotamian references in Morrowind.
Also, Tel is only used for original Telvanni mushroom towers. In TES3's time we have the "rogue Telvanni" who just capture older structures like Velothi towers, or fortresses originally belonging to other factions, and those don't get renamed. Odirniran is such an example, a Velothi tower currently occupied by a Telvanni (and attacked by Hlaalu - it's a Telvanni faction quest to help him with defense) - it showed up again in ESO as Barilzar's Tower, by the way (yes, that's the same place).
Master Aryon's Tel Vos is a bit of an exception because he built his tower around an older Imperial fortress that he sacked (so, yes, he's also a "rogue Telvanni", and by what I read between the lines in lorebooks, he was even the first one who started that "movement"), and we have no clue how that fortress was originally called. It's interestingly something many players aren't even aware of or get wrong; at least I've read lots of posts where people wondered about Aryon sitting in a throne room with Imperial flags - the question usually came up for why he'd be a Telvanni if he's sitting in an Imperial fortress in a room adorned with Imperial banners - they somehow miss the fact he didn't design this place himself out of some sympathy for the Empire, no, he sacked that thing and just mostly left it the way it was. His stance on them can also be read between the lines a bit, considering he made one part of that sacked fortress a museum - putting Imperial items he found in the fortress next to artifacts of the extinct Dwemer.
I like Aryon, by the way, and enjoyed a mod that would redirect the Morrowind main quest to him instead of the Imperial spymaster Caius Cosades, with some story changes to do everything in favor of House Telvanni. If I play a Telvanni character, I always use that mod.Vivec's palace definitely looks like a ziggurat to me, and I hadn't considered before how architecturally different it is to the usual style of Dunmer building--or at least the style we see in Dunmer settlements.
If it's not meant to be a ziggurat, I'd guess it refers to this structure (or similar) from India:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Ahichchhatra_Fort_Temple_Bareilly.jpg
Why? Mostly because Vivec as a character himself clearly refers to Indian mythology (and his name is also common in India, though usually spelled "Vivek" with a k; but that's a rather minor thing compared to the mythology references).Vivec City itself is quite different (and confusing to me--always getting lost in those cantons since TES3).
Yes, the cantons are really confusing (and even more confusing in TES3 than in ESO because they had even more rooms and hallways and even floors - you could also get into the canals, after all). I got used to them after a while, but it was a bit annoying in the beginning.There's also that lorebook found in the Archcanon's office in Vivec City that talks about Vivec being fascinated by Ebonheart and wanting one on Vvardenfell--it comes across as Vivec being charmed by the architecture of the place.
That's most probably meant to explain why TES3 has an Ebonheart (or more precisely New Ebonheart) on Vvardenfell:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:EbonheartIt's hard to say. I know I had a strong interest in Vivec and Sil (taking them as main characters) and I really came to like Valsirenn. I fully agree those stories were better written than the later ones, but I also know I had a lot more interest in Vvardenfell, Clockwork, and Summerset than I did in, say, Blackwood or High Isle. The Altmer and Dunmer are my favorite ESO races.
I think it has a little influence, but in the end, having a likeable main character could not rescue a boring or badly written story, and having a little less interesting one would not ruin a story that's, in its entirety, interesting and emotionally stirring.
Would we ever get to see the Telvanni Isles, including Port Telvanis, and it would be written like High Isle - I'd hate it, despite it being about House Telvanni (most likely, of course, considering the location; but then again, Necrom had nothing about House Indoril, and there wasn't much new meaningful Telvanni lore either, except for a bit on Saint Vorys).I know Orsinium/Wrothgar is thought of as a high point for the story-telling and writing, but I've never been a huge fan of it. I'm not saying it's bad, but I didn't find it anything special. I think they did a good job representing Orc clan culture and it's nice that, if you play an orc, at least one clan quest has a major difference for you. But the main story, the political one? I found it sort of dull and predictable. There is a lot of good lore, though, what with the museum collection and everything.
It was something different for once, and yes, the worldbuilding and lore was really well done. Elsweyr was also awesome when it came to the latter. They had good ideas, introduced interesting aspects to the game - it all showed potential. The first few ESO chapters made me so hopeful for the future. I thought that was only the beginning, and it would continue like this, getting even better, building upon that strong foundation. But then, somehow something changed. It's tragic.I think there'd be more limitations on what you could write than just story ideas. You might be assigned a few specific npcs for the story, for example, and a specific area to put them in. Or maybe not. Maybe it's more broad than that, and they say, "We need twenty side quests for this area" and you could just start pitching ideas.
In any way, I'd guess game writing for a bigger company would be too restrictive for me and I'd probably hear "You can't write that!" at least once a day An indie production could work, with a small team or even alone, but once it needs to have mass appeal (and most of all: offend no one), it would probably clash with my ideas.A Great Mage houseguest! *swoon* But why stop at 93 lines? Why not 93 full conversations? As far as the likelihood of that versus your Mannimarco idea...I'd say both are leaning towards the highly unlikely section of the probabilty map.
But why not? They're very central characters of TES lore, after all!Ah, I see. I do remember being called his little light, and I quite liked that.
In that context, it worked well, but at least in Germany, calling someone that might be better avoided (if it's without more context), because it can also be used negatively - to tell someone they're not very brightWell, at first I did expect some kind of remark on me faking the rites/rituals, but then I realized that Samara is stupid drunk and probably not paying a lot of attention. Like, she's swaying on her feet drunk, all the time. Plus, I also figured just having someone play along, in any fashion, made her feel like she'd won.
I still miss an outcome. A ritual should normally lead to something. After giving her the cake (or whatever it was), or after giving her the wine/blood, I just wondered: What now? Nothing happened (Especially after you give a Daedric Prince your blood for some ritual, something should happen, right?). Then I thought it might lead to some big finale, but the thing with the instruments was something unrelated to the earlier tasks, and there was no big conclusion after that either. In the end, something should have happened, involving the items we brought. That's another aspect that made the event writing feel strangely unfinished to me, or if not unfinished, then not well-planned. Like a story that's just missing parts. Arbitrary actions, loose ends. You don't introduce things to a story that have no function then. Made it feel random.Oh, undoubtedly. But which one? Oh, what if it's Sil? Or Vanus, but he doesn't want anyone to know he's back in with the Psijics?
Sil is busy with his anti-Almalexia security plans, but Vanny... I mean, he must be doing something all day... Though I'd hope for the old man to have a more peaceful time than travelling the whole continent and beyond to fix plot holes.Because the Psijics are reckless?
I think it's just a limitation of game design. There are many places that should not be easily accessible (CWC, Necrom), but of course you have players running around there - and their companions, bankers, assistants, etc. It changes the atmosphere, of course. But then again, I'm also glad we can visit these places again and they're not locked off after quests (that's really something that annoys me, with Greymoor Castle, for example).I didn't see any sign of Darien or Skordo
It's a pity, but not surprising. Thanks for looking!One of the Dunmer mages says that Sil hopes he can stop by Eyevea for a visit.
Is he supposed to be related to the Temple somehow? Sil isn't exactly known to show up in public much, let alone to talk to people. Not even his own Apostles have all seen him - there are some who served him for decades but have never seen him in person, after all. (But I guess that dialogue was meant to foreshadow Sil's appearance later in ESO).Sadly, Valaste is still talking about how she'll be fine, she's just tired. Ten years and the poor woman hasn't gotten any sleep!
Poor Valaste. They could have given her some random Eyevea-related dialogue and have her walk around there somewhere at least.Well, if you don't need them, no sense in them cluttering up your bank, either! I have plenty of bank space to spare, really. It's just, every now and then, I'll look at my bank inventory and say, "What even is all this stuff?" and weed out some items I've forgotten about, or will never use, or can't remember why I kept.
I might need them in a year! Nah, I just thought your bank was full and you'd absolutely want to get rid of them - I still have lots of bank space, having just started over there, after all.I got enough rapport with Bastian to trigger his second quest, and we saved his sister and the two of them got to reunite. I really, really like the companion quests.
They've clearly been the best writing in the past few years (plus a few, very few, zone side quests).
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I would prefer more details earlier, too. Just giving a bare outline hasn't hyped me up. In fact, until you mentioned it just now, I had forgotten about the Sages Vault.
I hope it will be more than just a kitchen shelf to store herbs Not that I wouldn't appreciate giving everyone a free storage bag for alchemy and cooking ingredients, ESO+ or not, but I'd prefer something more exciting.
But seriously, I suspect it will be more something like a system to organize, sort and collect things, not a completely new thing to do in game. Probably releated to knowledge of some kind. Of course, lore books come to mind first, but I could also imagine it tying in to scribing or antiquities somehow. More a related update-like thing, nothing entirely new. Maybe something related to the Antiquity system, but with books or other documents?
Not sure if not telling us more actually helps. If it's truly something awesome, that's a missed opportunity for hype. But the other way round, if there had been lots of hype without having reliable info, it could also have led to a catastrophe like with the Wall event last year, where people expected who knows what and then found it extremely underwhelming. Giving us clear info would probably have been the best solution.
Looking at the forum, right now I have the impression that almost no one is truly looking forward to or being excited much about what ever might come. There's slight curiosity about the Night Market, from what was seen on pts, and that's it. It's a bit sad, if I now think back to the years where we had a big chapter reveal in January, where there would be ongoing speculations about the details of the story for weeks.
Well, maybe we'll find out tomorrow. They're having a stream about what they've been working on and since it's called a series, seems to me this is going to be the first of its kind. Perhaps they intend to do monthy streams like this.
Check your messages!On the serious side, I wouldn't mind coming across more of Mannimarco's journals. The one in Mor Naril, where he took over from Wormblood, was interesting, but too short. Or even just his notes on some of his experiments and studies--I bet his notes were infused with his special brand of snark.
I would love that! If it's well-written, that is. I've been in a certain conflict for a while; there are lore topics I'd love to see or read more about, but on the other hand, there's always the danger of it being watered down, trivialized, there being lore mistakes, an incongruent tone, etc.
There is that chance, of course, but it seems to me the lore books we find in game tend to be more accurate and fitting than, say, some of the recent quest dialogues. After all, that journal we found in Mor Naril was part of Eastern Solstice, and that was good. I think, on the whole, the writing that make its way into the game in the form of books/letters/etc. is well done.That can be your special enterprise and assist your rise through the Telvanni ranks. Wouldn't Gothren just love an enchanted chair? Think of the business opportunities if you can figure out furniture enchantment! I mean, since you're already going into business with the Worm Cult furnishing emporium, it just makes sense.
An enchanted chair for Gothren? Wonderful idea! I think I'll gift him something like that at the next opportunity, so he won't need to sit on his dremora anymore. I already heard him complaining it was a little uncomfortable, so I suggested to just use an Argonian instead (they can be fed with butter for a few weeks to get fluffier and softer, while dremora obviously don't eat anything as they're no mortals), but for unknown reasons, he rejected that suggestion.
I can think of at least one reason: I doubt all the butter on Nirn would make scales 'fluffy'.I knew you'd be able to pull out a dozen or more references! There was also an inscription from the early Middle Ages by a monk that referenced Boethius, which made me think of Boethiah, though I don't know there's any real connection in that case.
That was also my first association back then, but I'm also not sure whether that's the actual origin for the TES name. As far as I know, the daedric princes as well as the divines were mostly named after roleplay characters of TES Arena devs or similar? And of course we don't know what those were inspired by. Then again, Boethius had a son named Symmachus. That name also shows up in TES lore (with no changes to it, same spelling), related to Barenziah.
While we're at names, Fa-Nuit-Hen (whose name first came up in TES3, in the Lessons of Vivec) interestingly reminds me of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, and Barbas made me think of Barbatos, but I won't get deeper into that
I'd not before heard that about the naming of the princes and divines. Of course, there's no saying where the inspiration for their role play characters came from--maybe they were as well-versed in various mythologies as you are. Wouldn't surprise me either if they took some inspiration from Crowley.The word tilu becoming 'tel' and meaning hill is interesting when put in context with the Telvanni settlements. I had always assumed the 'tel' part of Tel Mora and such was because the 'tel' was short for Telvanni. Like it was a way for them to let everyone know it belonged to a Telvanni mage.
Master Aryon's Tel Vos is a bit of an exception because he built his tower around an older Imperial fortress that he sacked (so, yes, he's also a "rogue Telvanni", and by what I read between the lines in lorebooks, he was even the first one who started that "movement"), and we have no clue how that fortress was originally called. It's interestingly something many players aren't even aware of or get wrong; at least I've read lots of posts where people wondered about Aryon sitting in a throne room with Imperial flags - the question usually came up for why he'd be a Telvanni if he's sitting in an Imperial fortress in a room adorned with Imperial banners - they somehow miss the fact he didn't design this place himself out of some sympathy for the Empire, no, he sacked that thing and just mostly left it the way it was. His stance on them can also be read between the lines a bit, considering he made one part of that sacked fortress a museum - putting Imperial items he found in the fortress next to artifacts of the extinct Dwemer.
I like Aryon, by the way, and enjoyed a mod that would redirect the Morrowind main quest to him instead of the Imperial spymaster Caius Cosades, with some story changes to do everything in favor of House Telvanni. If I play a Telvanni character, I always use that mod.
I never used many mods in my single player games. Actually, doubt I used any in Morrowind when I played it when it first came out. For Skyrim I used a few small ones--like one to make the ore more visible, for example--but generally I don't mess with mods. I'm not against them or anything--people come up with some really creative ones, like the one you described.Vivec's palace definitely looks like a ziggurat to me, and I hadn't considered before how architecturally different it is to the usual style of Dunmer building--or at least the style we see in Dunmer settlements.
If it's not meant to be a ziggurat, I'd guess it refers to this structure (or similar) from India:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Ahichchhatra_Fort_Temple_Bareilly.jpg
Why? Mostly because Vivec as a character himself clearly refers to Indian mythology (and his name is also common in India, though usually spelled "Vivek" with a k; but that's a rather minor thing compared to the mythology references).
I'd not heard of that structure before--very interesting! There's a politician here in the U.S. with the name Vivek--I don't care for him, but I am amused whenever I come across his name.
You know how Sotha Sil, Vivec, and Almalexia are also sometimes referred to as Seht, Vehk, and Ayem? Do you know the reason for that? I know I should probably just look it up on my own, but you're better than UESP or whatever other lore sites are out there.Vivec City itself is quite different (and confusing to me--always getting lost in those cantons since TES3).
Yes, the cantons are really confusing (and even more confusing in TES3 than in ESO because they had even more rooms and hallways and even floors - you could also get into the canals, after all). I got used to them after a while, but it was a bit annoying in the beginning.
I never got used to them. I have a horrible sense of direction in real life as well.There's also that lorebook found in the Archcanon's office in Vivec City that talks about Vivec being fascinated by Ebonheart and wanting one on Vvardenfell--it comes across as Vivec being charmed by the architecture of the place.
That's most probably meant to explain why TES3 has an Ebonheart (or more precisely New Ebonheart) on Vvardenfell:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ebonheart
Yeah, I figured that, but I still like that they went to the effort to make a lore book about it and I like the way Vivec comes across in the book.I know Orsinium/Wrothgar is thought of as a high point for the story-telling and writing, but I've never been a huge fan of it. I'm not saying it's bad, but I didn't find it anything special. I think they did a good job representing Orc clan culture and it's nice that, if you play an orc, at least one clan quest has a major difference for you. But the main story, the political one? I found it sort of dull and predictable. There is a lot of good lore, though, what with the museum collection and everything.
It was something different for once, and yes, the worldbuilding and lore was really well done. Elsweyr was also awesome when it came to the latter. They had good ideas, introduced interesting aspects to the game - it all showed potential. The first few ESO chapters made me so hopeful for the future. I thought that was only the beginning, and it would continue like this, getting even better, building upon that strong foundation. But then, somehow something changed. It's tragic.
I really think one of the main culprits is time. They had a lot more development time for base game than they did for any chapter, and I think they had a little more lead time for the earlier chapters. I think putting out yearly chapters really started to take its toll. I'm sure there are other factors, too, but I really do think having such a demanding and fixed schedule could be the biggest one. Well, we'll see how it goes with seasons, since one of the reasons for the seasonal model was having more time to get things right.A Great Mage houseguest! *swoon* But why stop at 93 lines? Why not 93 full conversations? As far as the likelihood of that versus your Mannimarco idea...I'd say both are leaning towards the highly unlikely section of the probabilty map.
But why not? They're very central characters of TES lore, after all!
I'm not saying we'd never get them as houseguests at all. I was referring specifically to your version of them as houseguests. It would be funny, wouldn't it, to have a pre-Solstice era Mannimarco as a houseguest. You could tell him his future. It'd be even better if we had a Mannimarco houseguest, and a Great Mage houseguest, and then if you put them in the same room, they'd have one of their famous dialogues. You'd walk into the room and they'd be engrossed in a discussion, and you'd have to rush to your writing desk to get down all their words for later publication. Better yet, there could also be a Vastarie houseguest working as a scribe for that very purpose.Ah, I see. I do remember being called his little light, and I quite liked that.
In that context, it worked well, but at least in Germany, calling someone that might be better avoided (if it's without more context), because it can also be used negatively - to tell someone they're not very bright
Lol! Well, if I'm ever in Germany again, I'll make sure to not call someone a little light. Unless they deserve it.Well, at first I did expect some kind of remark on me faking the rites/rituals, but then I realized that Samara is stupid drunk and probably not paying a lot of attention. Like, she's swaying on her feet drunk, all the time. Plus, I also figured just having someone play along, in any fashion, made her feel like she'd won.
I still miss an outcome. A ritual should normally lead to something. After giving her the cake (or whatever it was), or after giving her the wine/blood, I just wondered: What now? Nothing happened (Especially after you give a Daedric Prince your blood for some ritual, something should happen, right?). Then I thought it might lead to some big finale, but the thing with the instruments was something unrelated to the earlier tasks, and there was no big conclusion after that either. In the end, something should have happened, involving the items we brought. That's another aspect that made the event writing feel strangely unfinished to me, or if not unfinished, then not well-planned. Like a story that's just missing parts. Arbitrary actions, loose ends. You don't introduce things to a story that have no function then. Made it feel random.
Maybe it was supposed to a bit random and disconnected. Samara just wanted to do Sanguine things and didn't care about the follow-through. Does Sanguine usually have a mind keenly focused on follow-through? Is he a planner? I always thought he just liked to get people to the party and then see what happens. But, I'm certainly no Sanguine expert.Oh, undoubtedly. But which one? Oh, what if it's Sil? Or Vanus, but he doesn't want anyone to know he's back in with the Psijics?
Sil is busy with his anti-Almalexia security plans, but Vanny... I mean, he must be doing something all day... Though I'd hope for the old man to have a more peaceful time than travelling the whole continent and beyond to fix plot holes.
Maybe they're both doing it, tag-team style. That way they can still work on their own special projects while providing the world with a wizard to do it.Because the Psijics are reckless?
I think it's just a limitation of game design. There are many places that should not be easily accessible (CWC, Necrom), but of course you have players running around there - and their companions, bankers, assistants, etc. It changes the atmosphere, of course. But then again, I'm also glad we can visit these places again and they're not locked off after quests (that's really something that annoys me, with Greymoor Castle, for example).
As far as Clockwork goes, far more people showed up there than I expected from the intro. I mean, Divayth Fyr recruits us specifically, and he's one of the very few who even know how to get to Clockwork, but when we arrive the Vanos twins and Neramo are there.One of the Dunmer mages says that Sil hopes he can stop by Eyevea for a visit.
Is he supposed to be related to the Temple somehow? Sil isn't exactly known to show up in public much, let alone to talk to people. Not even his own Apostles have all seen him - there are some who served him for decades but have never seen him in person, after all. (But I guess that dialogue was meant to foreshadow Sil's appearance later in ESO).
I don't know--he just had the one line about Sil hoping to stop by. One of the three Dunmer specifically mentioned being from House Telvanni, but the other two didn't give any details like that. At the time these npcs showed up in game, neither Vivec nor Sil were in game, so maybe it was just a nod to the fact that Sil exists and wasn't forgotten about.
Yeah, in general I would love more updated/passage of time details to places like this. They could even tie it to completing certain content--once you've done all of Alvur Baren's relic quests once, Valaste has gotten some sleep and can be found in a different part of Eyevea. (Just chose a mage guild related thing as an example--obviously it could be anything).Well, if you don't need them, no sense in them cluttering up your bank, either! I have plenty of bank space to spare, really. It's just, every now and then, I'll look at my bank inventory and say, "What even is all this stuff?" and weed out some items I've forgotten about, or will never use, or can't remember why I kept.
I might need them in a year! Nah, I just thought your bank was full and you'd absolutely want to get rid of them - I still have lots of bank space, having just started over there, after all.
Well, if you ever want them, you can have them. They'll probably still be there in a year, because I don't clean out my bank that often!
Yes, and that's part of what keeps me hopeful for upcoming content. I know they can still write really good quests.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, maybe we'll find out tomorrow. They're having a stream about what they've been working on and since it's called a series, seems to me this is going to be the first of its kind. Perhaps they intend to do monthy streams like this.
Yeah, I've seen the announcement after I had posted my message, and I really appreciate that there will be a stream! I'd have hoped they'd give at least a little overview in that article about what topics they'll address so you'd know whether watching it would be worth it, because, obviously, not everything is interesting for everyone (I personally don't need more info on the Night Market, because I've already decided to have a look at it anyway, from what I've seen in the pts forum; what would make tuning it worthwhile for me would be info on the summer storylines, the Sages Vault, and the next new event). Also, the announcement did come a little late again. Not everyone reads the forum or news overview every day, or looks at the launcher announcements that often, so a lot of people will probably miss it. But generally, I truly appreciate that they want to inform us about what they're currently working on more often.Check your messages!
That was more meaningful and educational than what a certain Argonian wrote Truly profound. Maybe it should be made into a play for next year's Heart's Week celebration!There is that chance, of course, but it seems to me the lore books we find in game tend to be more accurate and fitting than, say, some of the recent quest dialogues. After all, that journal we found in Mor Naril was part of Eastern Solstice, and that was good. I think, on the whole, the writing that make its way into the game in the form of books/letters/etc. is well done.
Yes, those are mostly still interesting and well-written and I also enjoyed reading Mannimarco's and Wormblood's journal last year (though, as you said, they should have been longer). But we never know what the future brings, unfortunately! Back in Summerset, or Greymoor, or even just Necrom, I also didn't expect some other things we saw later, like Sanguine celebrations ending with people just going home if they had enough fun, or npcs telling us about how important it is to protect the environment.I can think of at least one reason: I doubt all the butter on Nirn would make scales 'fluffy'.
Oh, those aren't that uncomfortable. I have already tested it. A travelling Telvanni sometimes just needs to sit down to contemplate a few things, after all! And where would I get a chair from in the middle of the Alik'r? Bastian is more uncomfortable to sit on, by the way.I'd not before heard that about the naming of the princes and divines. Of course, there's no saying where the inspiration for their role play characters came from--maybe they were as well-versed in various mythologies as you are.
Which reminds me: Vanny was also originally a dev's roleplay character. Some documents were given by family members to The Imperial Library a while ago - I found them interesting to read (I was actually astonished how much of that made it into TES; and the changes that were made also seem like a good decision to me, like making Artaeum a more secluded place, for example, or changing or removing a few things that were quite trope-y for rpgs back then):
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes-transcript-sumurset
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/julian-lefays-dd-notes-transcript-dwynnenI never used many mods in my single player games. Actually, doubt I used any in Morrowind when I played it when it first came out.
I don't use that many either. Right now (yes, of course I also have Morrowind installed right now I always have), I have 2 mods installed that improve graphics a bit, and the Telvanni Nerevarine mod for the changed main quest. There's also a mod about joining the Sixth House, which was interesting, but unfortunately, it wasn't that extensive. But the mod I really don't want to play without anymore is actually a companion mod. It adds a young Ashlander that you save from getting torn into pieces by kagouti, who will accompany you on your travels afterwards. The fascinating thing is that he has specific commentary on all locations and all quests (including the Tribunal and Bloodmoon expansions). He would even comment on things like the time of day and the weather. And on top of that he also has a very, very long story questline about his family background and his tribe, with side quests about some other tribespeople. It's really a super immersive experience and I think I've never again seen such a complex mod, in terms of how many lines of dialogue there are.For Skyrim I used a few small ones--like one to make the ore more visible, for example--but generally I don't mess with mods.
I personally don't enjoy mods that change too much of the atmosphere or setting. If it's about enhancing the immersion (or closing plotholes, for example, though I never felt that that had been a big problem in the TES singleplayer games), it's a welcome addition to me. Playing a Skyrim survival mod where you needed to eat and sleep and take care of the weather, for example, was quite an interesting experience (though probably more of a hassle for people who just want to follow the story without getting disturbed too often).You know how Sotha Sil, Vivec, and Almalexia are also sometimes referred to as Seht, Vehk, and Ayem? Do you know the reason for that? I know I should probably just look it up on my own, but you're better than UESP or whatever other lore sites are out there.
Thanks! Those are letters of the daedric alphabet that the Dunmer sill use, despite not worshipping the Good Daedra anymore:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Alphabet#Daedric_Alphabet
Those letters are also designed, from their sounds, to remind of some ancient Middle Eastern languages, I think. The tradition of refering to deities by only a shortened version of their name, or that their name's initial, also can be seen in real world history.I never got used to them. I have a horrible sense of direction in real life as well.
One thing one could do in TES3 at least was marking important paths/buildings/doors by leaving items around. They'd never despawn. I didn't use it for Vivec City, but if I squatted in a house in some city, I did usually mark it with a lantern so I remembered which one it was. During the first few playthroughs, at least. At some point, you just remember.Yeah, I figured that, but I still like that they went to the effort to make a lore book about it and I like the way Vivec comes across in the book.
Yes, it's a good decision to give some lore explanation if there's something that might seem weird or like a plot hole without one (I'm sure some players would have wondered about that), and this one was also well-written. I wish we'd have seen something similar for other stories when something came across as rather strange... But then, of course, the next question would be how plausible the explanation is, or if it's even possibly to explain something reasonably.
The changes to Sanguine that we saw on Solstice, for example, just don't seem explainable to me. A daedric prince is not an abstract idea that could be different from culture to culture, after all, but it's an entity that's real on Nirn. And an incarnation of a specific concept, of all things, unable to change, in a way a prisoner to their own definition. Mehrunes Dagon can't decide not to destroy, Sheogorath can't be orderly and reasonable, and Sanguine can't (or shouldn't be able to) have a party where people just go home if they had enough, because the whole concept of Sanguine is to not let people go. On top of that: What and how the Daedric Princes are, is one of the metaphysical pillars of this fictional universe. It's important for the cosmos (or Aurbis, how it's called in TES lore). I think it's vital that all writers know and understand these basics. I understand if someone might be new and not have been so deeply into TES lore before, it's a lot to learn - but that's how it is. If I want to play a musical instrument, I need to learn that instrument; if I want to play a specific genre with that instrument, I also need to learn that genre.I really think one of the main culprits is time. They had a lot more development time for base game than they did for any chapter, and I think they had a little more lead time for the earlier chapters. I think putting out yearly chapters really started to take its toll. I'm sure there are other factors, too, but I really do think having such a demanding and fixed schedule could be the biggest one. Well, we'll see how it goes with seasons, since one of the reasons for the seasonal model was having more time to get things right.
Yes, let's wait and see what the summer stories will bring, and how the next zone we'll get, if we ever get one (of a scope beyond a small dungeon-like thing like the Night Market), will look like!I'm not saying we'd never get them as houseguests at all. I was referring specifically to your version of them as houseguests.
I'm honestly not even sure if we'd get any version of them, as evil baddies like Mannimarco seem off-limits for houseguests (and in many cases that even makes sense, but in case of Mannimarco I could actually think of explanations - not every character is a good hero, and someone needs to keep him hidden after his next return, right? ), and Vanny sadly doesn't seem to be popular with many people.It would be funny, wouldn't it, to have a pre-Solstice era Mannimarco as a houseguest. You could tell him his future. It'd be even better if we had a Mannimarco houseguest, and a Great Mage houseguest, and then if you put them in the same room, they'd have one of their famous dialogues. You'd walk into the room and they'd be engrossed in a discussion, and you'd have to rush to your writing desk to get down all their words for later publication. Better yet, there could also be a Vastarie houseguest working as a scribe for that very purpose.
I think in this very era they'd probably discuss other things But I'd love to see them interact (no matter how and where; though I think houseguests interacting with each other would also be an interesting concept, but I don't think that's easily possible the way they're designed). It would probably be very entertaining to watch.Maybe it was supposed to a bit random and disconnected. Samara just wanted to do Sanguine things and didn't care about the follow-through. Does Sanguine usually have a mind keenly focused on follow-through? Is he a planner? I always thought he just liked to get people to the party and then see what happens. But, I'm certainly no Sanguine expert.
But there weren't any real excesses either (unless you call someone punching someone else in the stomach that). There wasn't even a party - we brought cake and wine, but no one ever ate/drank it. That's what I mean with the whole thing feeling unfinished. We do things, because we're told to do them, but it feels like any real consequence is missing.Maybe they're both doing it, tag-team style. That way they can still work on their own special projects while providing the world with a wizard to do it.
Now I feel sorry for them!As far as Clockwork goes, far more people showed up there than I expected from the intro. I mean, Divayth Fyr recruits us specifically, and he's one of the very few who even know how to get to Clockwork, but when we arrive the Vanos twins and Neramo are there.
Was it specified how the Vanos twins and Neramo ended up there? I think it was, but I don't remember right now.I don't know--he just had the one line about Sil hoping to stop by. One of the three Dunmer specifically mentioned being from House Telvanni, but the other two didn't give any details like that.
It's not wrong to use every opportunity to gain more knowledge, but I'm surprised the Mages Guild would want a Telvanni thereYeah, in general I would love more updated/passage of time details to places like this. They could even tie it to completing certain content--once you've done all of Alvur Baren's relic quests once, Valaste has gotten some sleep and can be found in a different part of Eyevea. (Just chose a mage guild related thing as an example--obviously it could be anything).
But is that an acceptable reward? Everything's about rewards now, after allWell, if you ever want them, you can have them. They'll probably still be there in a year, because I don't clean out my bank that often!
I might remind you in a year - if I still remember.Yes, and that's part of what keeps me hopeful for upcoming content. I know they can still write really good quests.
I remain sceptical until I actually see the results, but that's probably part of my disposition
Okay, it's stream time now!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0
