Sorcerer rework, new class, new systems, house building, and various improvements for ESO

BretonMage · February 13

Emeratis wrote: »

The crystal magic is actually my favorite line in the sorcerer lines thematically and I have a character who is a sorcerer that her main magic is crystal magic and manipulation and I've been going crazy daydreaming Welkynd and Culanda based skill styles for that line for her so that would be the skill line of sorc that I'd be furious if it was cut because it would ruin one of my character's themes.

Crystal Fragments is actually one of my favourite skills in the game, so much so I even used it as a hard-cast spammable a couple of years ago. It was really so much fun. I fail to see, however, how the rest of the dark magic line is crystal-themed. Do you actually use the other skills in the line? (edit: Sorry if it sounded abrupt, but that was a genuine question.) I'd prefer it if they changed Dark Magic to Crystal Magic tbh, because right now Dark Magic has themes I don't see "good-aligned" (for lack of a better term) sorcerers taking on. I'd much rather it be neutral, and then players can use skill styles to lean dark or light.

Vindold · February 13

BretonMage wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

I’ll die on that hill but : Sorcerers ARE lightning.

The Sorcerer is the mage archetype of ESO. Not a faction, not a doctrine, not an organized order. In tes lore, a “sorcerer” is simply a mage who relies on personal power rather than institutional teaching. That freedom is exactly what defines the class.

If we look at the roots of the archetype across the series, Sorcerers embody raw magic force: Destruction for offense, Alteration for protection, and sometimes Conjuration as a tool. But their identity has never been “Daedra specialist” or “dark ritualist”. That fantasy belongs to conjurers, necromancers, or cultists.

The visual identity that consistently defines the Sorcerer fantasy is shock.

(Shock magic in Elder Scrolls has always represented uncontrolled, volatile power. Lightning is fast, violent, and overwhelming. It doesn’t creep like frost or burn steadily like fire. It strikes. It feels like raw magick made visible.)

When you think of a Sorcerer, the fantasy isn’t “Daedric circles and pets everywhere”. It’s a mage standing in the middle of a storm, magicka crackling through the air, electricity dancing across their body.

Look at the original class imagery:

No pets. No Daedric summoning circles. No dark rituals.
What defines the Sorcerer visually is shock energy surrounding them.

That’s the core fantasy.

when the class is being reworked, the direction should embrace that identity. Daedric tools can remain part of the kit, but they shouldn’t dominate the visual language of the class. The Sorcerer shouldn’t feel like a Daedric handler. It should feel like a living storm.

Every ability should feel infused with electricity. Even defensive or utility skills could carry arcs of energy, static effects, or storm auras. Casting should feel like charging the air. Movement should leave traces of lightning. The battlefield should feel saturated with static when a Sorcerer is present.

The fantasy isn’t “summoner with some lightning”.

I actually agree. I think we should keep daedric pets, since conjuration is a part of the sorcerer's toolkit, but otherwise I totally agree that the identity of the sorcerer should revolve around lightning magic. Dark magic, otoh, had never been a sorc thing in TES. I'm honestly a bit horrified they want to lean into Dark Magic for sorcs, I've never seen sorcerers as being "dark" - they're elementalists first and foremost.

(Quoting the entirety of your post because I really enjoyed and agree with it).

'They are Elementalists'

Then why focus on Lightning only? Why not create a skill line which allow us to choose fire, ice, lightning morph?

I want Sorc to be elementalist, not just Palpatine, though I do wish sorc lightning spells to have chain lightning, lightning zaps, channeled lightning spells to go full Palpatine.

Emeratis · February 13

BretonMage wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

The crystal magic is actually my favorite line in the sorcerer lines thematically and I have a character who is a sorcerer that her main magic is crystal magic and manipulation and I've been going crazy daydreaming Welkynd and Culanda based skill styles for that line for her so that would be the skill line of sorc that I'd be furious if it was cut because it would ruin one of my character's themes.

Crystal Fragments is actually one of my favourite skills in the game, so much so I even used it as a hard-cast spammable a couple of years ago. It was really so much fun. I fail to see, however, how the rest of the dark magic line is crystal-themed. Do you actually use the other skills in the line? I'd prefer it if they changed Dark Magic to Crystal Magic tbh, because right now Dark Magic has themes I don't see "good-aligned" (for lack of a better term) sorcerers taking on. I'd much rather it be neutral, and then players can use skill styles to lean dark or light.

Yes, the skill line is called dark magic but many of the animations have some form of crystal present. While the skill line has devolved into a bit of a mess in recent years, I used to use many of the skills in early eso pvp and still miss when the skills were more viable in pvp and wish they were more useful in pve. Still, you can get away with a lot in overland if you want to do something fun or that you enjoy for your character.

I get some of the visuals can be a little dated but in case you missed the crystal thematic that is very present through the line in more than just crystal frags. Every skill in the line except for the ultimate has some form of crystal motif:
Rune Prison

Encase/Daedric Mines root effect

Dark Exchange

Again, you cannot really divorce the visual motif theme of crystals from the dark magic line. It's been there since beta of the game. Just because balance wise Dark Magic has been one of the most underperforming skill lines for a while does not make the aesthetic or theme of these skills less valuauble in sorc's identity or theme and as I mentioned it's very important for one of my oldest sorc characters.

I agree with you with preferring skill lines to be neutral and flavor skill styles as more good or evil. Also dark does not necessarily mean evil. Regardless, I'm less worried about the name and more worried about losing the crystal aesthetic and thematic in sorc because it's often the least noticed or talked about.

Radiate77 · February 13

What I’d give for the Skyrim Familiar.

BretonMage · February 13

Emeratis wrote: »

I get some of the visuals can be a little dated but in case you missed the crystal thematic that is very present through the line in more than just crystal frags. Every skill in the line except for the ultimate has some form of crystal motif:
Rune Prison

Thanks, I had forgotten the crystals in those skills.

Nonetheless, as one who was drawn to the lightning theme of the sorcerer, with its white arcing lightning, dazzling lightning storms and the like, I really hope we're able to have a more light-focused aesthetic for those of us more interested in the lightning aspect. Either in the form of skill styles or morphs.

Turtle_Bot · February 13

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_NickG @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I've been trying to find a way to put into words on what I hope ZOS looks into for the Sorcerer class rework later this year, especially my concerns about the direction that the written blurb of the class description stated that the focus would be on dark magic and daedric pacts, but @Asdara has put it perfectly with their post here:

Asdara wrote: »

I’ll die on that hill but : Sorcerers ARE lightning.

The Sorcerer is the mage archetype of ESO. Not a faction, not a doctrine, not an organized order. In tes lore, a “sorcerer” is simply a mage who relies on personal power rather than institutional teaching. That freedom is exactly what defines the class.

If we look at the roots of the archetype across the series, Sorcerers embody raw magic force: Destruction for offense, Alteration for protection, and sometimes Conjuration as a tool. But their identity has never been “Daedra specialist” or “dark ritualist”. That fantasy belongs to conjurers, necromancers, or cultists.

The visual identity that consistently defines the Sorcerer fantasy is shock.

(Shock magic in Elder Scrolls has always represented uncontrolled, volatile power. Lightning is fast, violent, and overwhelming. It doesn’t creep like frost or burn steadily like fire. It strikes. It feels like raw magick made visible.)

When you think of a Sorcerer, the fantasy isn’t “Daedric circles and pets everywhere”. It’s a mage standing in the middle of a storm, magicka crackling through the air, electricity dancing across their body.

Look at the original class imagery:

No pets. No Daedric summoning circles. No dark rituals.
What defines the Sorcerer visually is shock energy surrounding them.

That’s the core fantasy.

when the class is being reworked, the direction should embrace that identity. Daedric tools can remain part of the kit, but they shouldn’t dominate the visual language of the class. The Sorcerer shouldn’t feel like a Daedric handler. It should feel like a living storm.

Every ability should feel infused with electricity. Even defensive or utility skills could carry arcs of energy, static effects, or storm auras. Casting should feel like charging the air. Movement should leave traces of lightning. The battlefield should feel saturated with static when a Sorcerer is present.

The fantasy isn’t “summoner with some lightning”.

I understand that conjuration (which is the school of magic that the daedric summoning line falls under) is a part of the sorcerer theme and fantasy, but over the past 6-8 years, ZOS has put far too much emphasis on this aspect of the sorcerer class that everything else has just felt forgotten/ignored. It has been frustrating to watch as shields, pets and daedric pacts became essentially the only focus of attention the class got for past adjustments (pets in PvE and shields in PvP) where the lightning theme, a mage crackling with raw magical energy/power that is front and center in the original (and recent) imagery of the class, just felt left out/forgotten about.

I really hope the team really takes this feedback on board when looking into the sorcerer class rework later in the year and bring this theme back from oblivion.

P.s. this original theming of Sorcerer (mage crackling with electrical energy for everything they did, exuding raw magical power) was the whole reason I chose the class in the first place, over 10 years ago when I started playing and it's why I still try to make lightning themed builds work even though the damage type has been long left to fade into obscurity (even more than frost damage).

To re-iterate the key take away points here are:

Sorcerers are LIGHTNING because it visually and thematically represents their natural raw magical power.
Sorcerers make pacts with/conjure Daedra to enhance/expand upon/focus their own personal powers, not to baby sit a pet 24/7
The class fantasy is a powerful naturally gifted mage, not bound to a single school of magic (hence the themes of the 3 skill lines that revolve around 3 different schools of magic: destruction (storm calling), conjuration (daedric summoning) and alteration (dark magic)).

Lekjih · February 14

The entire point of the class is daedric pacts and you want to remove half of the daedric pacts. Their class mastery is about their pets and you want to remove their pets. As someone who loves my clannfear, hard pass.

RebornV3x · February 14

The Sorcerer rework needs to make the sorc a full battlemage class or summoner class ZOS needs to choose one or the other in my opinion either remove the pets and give them to necro and make necromancer the summoner class or lean into it and give sorc more pets and synergy with pets.

Malyore · February 14

RebornV3x wrote: »

The Sorcerer rework needs to make the sorc a full battlemage class or summoner class ZOS needs to choose one or the other in my opinion either remove the pets and give them to necro and make necromancer the summoner class or lean into it and give sorc more pets and synergy with pets.

I truly believe there are better options than an extreme dichotomy– chopping off an entire class identity is not okay. They don't need to "just choose one", they need to actually manage and develop their game to allow for both playstyles. They might have to brainstorm a bit and be willing to work outside of the box on a really small scale, but there have already been a multitude of options and suggestions in this thread alone that would allow for both styles to exist. To ignore this route and lean into only one style would be foolishly damaging, regardless of the fallback that multi/subclassing can partially reaccommodate. The whole reason they're doing this refresh is to not have to rely on multiclassing.

Malyore · February 14

Malyore wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

The Sorcerer rework needs to make the sorc a full battlemage class or summoner class ZOS needs to choose one or the other in my opinion either remove the pets and give them to necro and make necromancer the summoner class or lean into it and give sorc more pets and synergy with pets.

I truly believe there are better options than an extreme dichotomy– chopping off an entire class identity is not okay. They don't need to "just choose one", they need to actually manage and develop their game to allow for both playstyles. They might have to brainstorm a bit and be willing to work outside of the box on a really small scale, but there have already been a multitude of options and suggestions in this thread alone that would allow for both styles to exist. To ignore this route and lean into only one style would be foolishly damaging, regardless of the fallback that multi/subclassing can partially reaccommodate. The whole reason they're doing this refresh is to not have to rely on multiclassing.

To summarize some options mentioned outside of the OP:
1.) Utilize all three morphs of a pet skill, allowing one morph to be a non-pet option.
2.) Provide an option to reskin the pets to simply not look like pets, but instead look like some other form of spell while behaving the same.
3.) Introduce new class scribing grimoires to reshuffle skills, utilizing class mastery so that players can decide themselves whether to lean into pet or non-pet.

I've seen a lot more ideas in other threads. Some involved changing the way pets work... I just can't remember them currently. Feel free to contribute.

ESO_player123 · February 14

Let's not touch my favorite Matriarch. I use it for healing and would not trade it for anything. (I would welcome a reskin, of course.) I'm sure that making such profound changes would make many players upset, myself included.

IviRo · February 14

Lekjih wrote: »

The entire point of the class is daedric pacts and you want to remove half of the daedric pacts. Their class mastery is about their pets and you want to remove their pets. As someone who loves my clannfear, hard pass.

If you study the lore regarding Sorcerers, you will find that Daedric pacts are not their specialty. Therefore, I suggest adding a Warlock class that will fully meet the requirements of pet lovers. Players who are even slightly familiar with class lore understand perfectly well what a Sorcerer should look like from a lore perspective. We should also not forget that in the future, subclasses will be reworked or temporarily removed, as was announced on the stream when the class rework was announced. Against this backdrop, I support the addition of a class that will be completely focused on Daedra and their pacts, and I support the addition of class changes.

P.S. Sorcerer has been my main class since the beta tests, and from the start of the game, I didn't understand why this class had this skill line, and I wanted to delete the game every time I was forced to play through pets in high-level content. The developers can say whatever they want, that you can play however you want, but let's not forget that this is an MMO and it has its own rules for completing high-level content. Players must, I would even say are required to be effective in raids and meet the requirements. But when they tell me that I need to be with pets, I'd rather skip the raid or quit the game until the developers rework the class so that it's playable. Out of all the comments, only one person gave a clear description of this class. I even gave an example and information that Warlock is the best solution, but after thinking about Scribing, I also like the idea of transferring pets to grimoires, as I would like to see other Daedra to summon instead of Scamps and Twilights.

Therefore, a compromise must be found between those who like to play without pets and those who like to play with them, as this is the only class that has two camps of players who are constantly in conflict. I believe that the developers are simply obliged to provide a compromise solution to satisfy the needs of both groups of players.

I really enjoy watching old TESO videos because they bring back fond memories of beta testing.
In one video, I noticed how the Sorcerer looked as he cast various spells
2:38 lightning form and the area with lightning has different animation from the current version
5:10 quite interesting, a scamp woven from lightning, and when it hits an enemy, it explodes
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KxJTsq2XeKY&t=169s

Radiate77 · February 14

@IviRo thank you for the trip down memory lane…
Man do I miss Nick Konkle.

Honestly I don’t even blame him for leaving, he was allowed to go on stage and sell his Spellcrafting dream just for it to never release. ☹️

Radiate77 · February 14

It’s also interesting to hear Classes be referred to as just the start, and how your character would be formed over time, insinuating that the system was never meant to be as rigid as it was.

IviRo · February 14

Radiate77 wrote: »

@IviRo thank you for the trip down memory lane…
Man do I miss Nick Konkle.

Honestly I don’t even blame him for leaving, he was allowed to go on stage and sell his Spellcrafting dream just for it to never release. ☹️

I completely agree with you. For me, QuakeCon 2014 set the standard for how developers should inform players about what to expect. Unfortunately, it was the last announcement of its kind.
Although I appreciate what the developers presented on January 7 this year, I felt the same emotions as when watching QuakeCon 2014: excitement, interest, developers showing interest in the game—it's really thrilling. You get emotions not only from the game, but also from watching the broadcast.

This_0ne · February 14

Malyore wrote: »

xbluerosesx wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

do not be taking OP's suggestions on removing daedric summoning for sorcs. daedric summoning was the best, you have no idea how many times the twilight matriarch saved my life back as a noob and even now. if people hate it, let us reskin it. don't delete it entirely

Maybe an option for a reskin that isn't a daedric pet could be some sort of homing sentry spell, or an apparition of our own player character.

Hey, don't take the Nightblades' bread away. I'm counting on them saving a copy of our character to upgrade their shadow double instead of a disgusting barbarian-style shadow.

This_0ne · February 14

Tandor wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

Which is good for the long-term health of the game.

As it is, we have a lot of players with a single character who has done it all, and so they have no incentive to log in. Players with alts keep a game alive, as they have never done it all on all their characters.

What should they do again on alt characters? Quests on all alts? Nothing stops players with one character from regularly running the same dungeons and trials. I personally completed all the storylines on two of my characters, and I assure you no one with alts will do this on all their characters (I want to believe that people have personal lives).

This_0ne · February 14

BretonMage wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

The crystal magic is actually my favorite line in the sorcerer lines thematically and I have a character who is a sorcerer that her main magic is crystal magic and manipulation and I've been going crazy daydreaming Welkynd and Culanda based skill styles for that line for her so that would be the skill line of sorc that I'd be furious if it was cut because it would ruin one of my character's themes.

'They are Elementalists'

Then why focus on Lightning only? Why not create a skill line which allow us to choose fire, ice, lightning morph?

I want Sorc to be elementalist, not just Palpatine, though I do wish sorc lightning spells to have chain lightning, lightning zaps, channeled lightning spells to go full Palpatine.

Because the other elemental branches are occupied by other classes. Therefore, I don't understand why the developers don't completely abandon the class and subclass system and rework it all into NPC teachers of different skill branches. This could work as a subclass in its current form. Or they shouldn't offer the player any limits at all beyond the 12 skills on the skill panels.

FabresFour · February 14

Well, in my perception, Sorcerers in ESO have been poorly represented since launch. I genuinely like the idea of Dark Magic, but I’ve never felt it was fully realized. And honestly, I’ve always thought that other Daedric creatures would make far more sense for a Sorcerer than the ones we currently have.

Of course, considering that the current summons use the Coldharbour aesthetic, it made sense for the 2014 Vestige to use those creatures. The character has a direct connection to that plane of Oblivion because of their soul. Narratively, it works. But the game has evolved since then. We now have many more planes, entities, and thematic possibilities. More importantly, the systems have matured enough that the class identity could be reexamined.

To me, the Sorcerer could very easily become a much more cohesive fusion of Dark Magic and Lightning, without Conjuration being a central pillar of the class. Honestly, if Conjuration became its own separate skill line (or even a Scribing branch) I would celebrate. That would free the Sorcerer to finally embrace its core fantasy: raw power.

What is a Sorcerer?

From my perspective, Sorcerers in Tamriel are, fundamentally, researchers. Scholars. Individuals obsessed with the concept of power itself. They are not heirs to an ancient martial tradition like the Dragonknight, whose art has Akaviri roots. They are not opportunistic manipulators of shadow like the Nightblade. Nor are they divinely appointed agents like the Templar.

The Sorcerer is someone who pursued power through study. Through obsession. Through curiosity. What defines this class is not an external entity: it is the pursuit of something greater than oneself.

And what is the best metaphor for that? Lightning.

Lightning is one of the most uncontrollable forces in nature. It appears and vanishes in an instant. It is concentrated destruction, pure energy, something that feels alien even in our own reality. In our world, lightning may be the natural phenomenon that comes closest to the idea of magic: unpredictable, violent, awe-inspiring.

If the Sorcerer seeks absolute power, it makes sense that this power manifests through lightning. Not as a generic elemental theme, but as someone attempting to dominate something that, by definition, resists domination.

That is why I believe this should be the foundation of the class fantasy: control over the uncontrollable.

Dark Magic strengthens that concept. It represents method, containment, seals, bindings, arcane manipulation. Lightning represents raw force. Dark Magic represents the attempt to harness it.

Isn’t that what mages do? Try to control the impossible?

That tension is the heart of the class. An unstable balance between mastery and chaos. Chain lightning surging between enemies. Arcane seals containing unstable energy. Bolts descending from the sky in concentrated bursts. All of that speaks far more clearly to the Sorcerer fantasy than relying primarily on static summons.

Visual Effects and Sound Design

Even though I’ve always mained Nightblade, I’ve consistently felt that Sorcerer was the most visually striking class in the base game. The lightning effects had strong presence. Illuminating the battlefield during combat feels impactful and satisfying.

But today, it feels dated. Not because it’s bad, but because it hasn’t evolved while the rest of the game has. It lacks intensity. It lacks scale.

We are talking about one of nature’s most violent forces. The battlefield should feel that. More particle spread. Electricity arcing across the ground. Secondary discharges jumping between targets. The visual impact should immediately communicate danger.

The sound design needs to support that as well. Lightning is not a sustained hum. It is sudden. Explosive. It appears and disappears in a violent crack. The audio should reflect that: thunderous but brief. Impactful but not dragged out.

There’s a difference between a constant electric effect and a storm condensed into a single moment. The Sorcerer should feel like the latter.

I also believe some abilities don’t align well with this fantasy. Lightning Form, for example, has always felt somewhat disconnected. Visually, it’s not particularly appealing, and conceptually it dilutes the idea of concentrated discharge. Something closer to a Thunder Cloak: pulsing arcs of electricity surrounding the caster without making them translucent would fit far better.

On a personal note, I’ve never liked the transparency effect on player characters. I was glad when that was removed from Dragonknight’s healing skill, and I think Sorcerer would benefit from abandoning that aesthetic as well.

Animation

If Dragonknight animations are brutal, grounded, and forceful, which fits their identity, the Sorcerer should feel more refined. They are scholars. Their gestures should be deliberate, precise, almost academic. But here’s the key: the power they wield is not entirely stable.

Imagine if certain abilities showed subtle instability in their animation. A brief tremor. A flicker of uncontrolled energy. A momentary disruption in posture, as if the Sorcerer tried to channel more power than they could safely contain. Not exaggerated or comedic, just enough to suggest that they are always operating at the edge of control.

That would reinforce the central idea of the class: intellectual mastery struggling to contain overwhelming force.

This kind of visual storytelling would make the class far more expressive without requiring a complete structural overhaul.

I’m genuinely excited to see what changes come to the Sorcerer. I truly believe this is one of the classes with the highest potential in ESO. The conceptual foundation is incredibly strong. What’s missing is the willingness to fully embrace the fantasy of unstable power. And when the rework happens, I sincerely hope we receive the Destruction Staff rework too. Those two concepts are tightly intertwined. Rethinking one without addressing the other would feel incomplete (to me, lol).

If the Sorcerer is meant to command the storm, then it should truly look and feel like they are trying to holding the sky in their hands.

Prophet_of_Malacath · February 14

I'm not sure what franchise is being referred to here - but those images (above) aren't TES.

TES2 Sorcerer's didn't even cast destruction spells - they were Physical-focused (a valid ESO build) whose spell absorption is reminiscent of Dark Magic. These are combat-mages who excel at bludgeoning mages.

In fact, "Sorcerer" originates from Medieval Latin *sortiārius* - "one who casts lots" or "tells fortune by lots". It wasn't someone who even performed magic spells - but who foretold destiny. A tempestarii was what they'd call a storm-mage (and witch-hunts went after them). The original sorcerers didn't cast shock spells, they simply predicted outcomes, so the TES2 Sorcerer disregarding someone elses glittery fingers can totally fit.

TES3 Sorcerer's "rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants". They're not weather witches, not shock mages, they're "take power wherever we can find it".

Thus ESO lore about Sorcerers wielding dark magic to fight against the Planemeld is perfect. The shock spells are the obvious glued-on "for a signature special effect aesthetic", not the lore-based bread-and-butter.

TES4 Sorcerer's harken to both the above "well-equipped fighters" that "unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor" & Endurance as important as Intelligence as core Attributes - just as Heavy Armor, Conjuration, Mysticism - not merely Destruction.

My own hope with class identity, and mention of "strategy and positioning", is less "throw lightning til it dies" and more "oh this shock spell ricochets off those dark magic columns" or "ah, when I case X, the pets react by Y".

Now all this said (for the sake of being candid and truthful), if pets did get separated then weeee give us some Ogrim and faceless nightmare demons my Nightblade can summon & I'll never look at Sorcerer again. But LORE-wise, Sorcerer was always a grab-bag mixed with physicality, never a dedicated destruction mage.

Malyore · February 14

If we are talking about sorcery from a lore perspective, that becomes one of my largest issues with daedric summoning. I chose sorcerer for my first and main character all those years ago because I wanted the closest thing to a mage archetype. I chose it for the lightning, and for whatever "dark" magic would be (which ended up just being someone who throws soul gems and rock candy at enemies).

But from a lore standpoint, I don't want to be having daedra around me. Why would I want to summon an immortal being that is bent on hating mortals– bringing it into my activities for it to learn my face, my name, my abilities, my current whereabouts and plan (especially if I'm fighting against daedric princes plots), and royally anger it by commanding it against its will, then allowing it to just dissipate back into oblivion for it to reform and potentially use all of this information for revenge.

From my own gameplay perspective, the pets simply aren't worth being double slotted, and they look bad. That is reason enough for why I don't use them. But additionally, I have a strong RP aversion to using the daedra on my main character, because they are a dangerous thing to have around, and my character wouldn't risk that.
I want my power to come from my own magic, you know, that thing mages have. That is the power fantasy that lead a lot of people to sorcerer class, as others have said.

Aliyavana · February 14

I dislike daedric summoning because pets take up two slots. ESO has too little bar space and needing to slot pets for both bars makes me feel like I have less variety.

Malyore · February 14

Malyore wrote: »

I chose sorcerer for my first and main character all those years ago because I wanted the closest thing to a mage archetype. I chose it for the lightning, and for whatever "dark" magic would be (which ended up just being someone who throws soul gems and rock candy at enemies).

The crystals in some of the abilities are literally just the model used for black soul gems.

Crystal magic has never really felt appropriate in this game. If they want to lean into the soul gem motif, I'd rather it be someone who drains the magicka out of soul gems, and then uses that as the ability. (Although this may be confusing since it doesn't actually consume soul gems like scribed abilities).

But throwing rocks at enemies does not fit the power fantasy. I'd rather see a character wield a black soul gem in front of them, do the little arm animation to draw out a power, and then fire a magical projectile from it. That way people can still have their purple crystals if they like them, but it's not as absurd looking.
A sorcerers soul gem could even be their own version of the arcanist tome. Especially since arcanist feels, in many ways, like what sorcerer should have been.

ZhuJiuyin · February 14

Some people cite past TES class data as evidence, but deliberately ignore one crucial point: in the latest version of TES, TES5: Skyrim, Sorc are essentially magic users, and some are even unable to use Conjuration.

While players cannot choose their class in TES5, NPCs still have classes. The table below shows the ability values of various Sorc NPC types in TES5. It clearly shows that in the latest TES5 data, Sorcerer is a magic-using class, proficient in Destruction and Illusion. And the vast majority of Sorcerer NPCs do not use Conjuration.

Therefore, based on the latest data, Sorcerer is undoubtedly a Destruction user, not a summoner.

IviRo · February 14

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Some people cite past TES class data as evidence, but deliberately ignore one crucial point: in the latest version of TES, TES5: Skyrim, Sorc are essentially magic users, and some are even unable to use Conjuration.

While players cannot choose their class in TES5, NPCs still have classes. The table below shows the ability values of various Sorc NPC types in TES5. It clearly shows that in the latest TES5 data, Sorcerer is a magic-using class, proficient in Destruction and Illusion. And the vast majority of Sorcerer NPCs do not use Conjuration.

Therefore, based on the latest data, Sorcerer is undoubtedly a Destruction user, not a summoner.

Ooh, that's amazing, thank you.

Prophet_of_Malacath · February 14

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Some people cite past TES class data as evidence, but deliberately ignore one crucial point: in the latest version of TES, TES5: Skyrim, Sorc are essentially magic users, and some are even unable to use Conjuration.

While players cannot choose their class in TES5, NPCs still have classes. The table below shows the ability values of various Sorc NPC types in TES5. It clearly shows that in the latest TES5 data, Sorcerer is a magic-using class, proficient in Destruction and Illusion. And the vast majority of Sorcerer NPCs do not use Conjuration.

Therefore, based on the latest data, Sorcerer is undoubtedly a Destruction user, not a summoner.

And they still are Heavy Armor, swinging a weapon, some are Illusionists, etc.

The point isnt to say "shock doesn't matter"

The point is to say "ESO Sorcs pay respect to multiple iterations". ZOS did a great job giving them aspects of ALL previous games.

Amputating 2/3rds all because some people want to play weather witches? You could just give a storm Skill Style to Wardens and another for Templars if you really just want to glow and sparkle.

Aesthetics arent mechanics.

They already have an Infinite Archive set - Monolith of Storms - which has a cool concept for area control. Within the space of "strategy, moblity", mechanics like this could indeed help a Sorcerer feel like theyre in control of a field, setting up danger and repositioning to bait foes across them.

Which is to say, this whole aesthetic wishlist is only skin deep. The gameplay has to come first, the abilities after.

"Oh wow, look at me, I sparkle with lightning!" isnt a playstyle, it's SFX.

Prophet_of_Malacath · February 14

Aliyavana wrote: »

I dislike daedric summoning because pets take up two slots. ESO has too little bar space and needing to slot pets for both bars makes me feel like I have less variety.

On this thought, i wonder how many folks would just wsnt pets. We already have Companions. I imagine some Wardens would want a couple wolves or guar (maybe swap the Bear too). Necros wanting perma pet. DKs off to the Deadlands to beat fiery spirits to submission. NBs conjuring shadow doubles of themselves.

It'd not be terrible if we had an extra slot or two, just for pets, giving other folks more buddy options. Plus ZOS could sell new creatures/skins easily. I never cared for a Bear or Clannfear, but an Ogrim or Mind Horror? Chefs kiss.

BloodstainedFay · February 14

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Some people cite past TES class data as evidence, but deliberately ignore one crucial point: in the latest version of TES, TES5: Skyrim, Sorc are essentially magic users, and some are even unable to use Conjuration.

While players cannot choose their class in TES5, NPCs still have classes. The table below shows the ability values of various Sorc NPC types in TES5. It clearly shows that in the latest TES5 data, Sorcerer is a magic-using class, proficient in Destruction and Illusion. And the vast majority of Sorcerer NPCs do not use Conjuration.

Therefore, based on the latest data, Sorcerer is undoubtedly a Destruction user, not a summoner.

This is a poor argument IMO- not on the point of Sorcs in Skyrim not being summoning but on the point of "latest data".
For all intents and purposes, ESO is the latest data. Either way, no game should take priority over the other here.

Arena, Daggerfall - Do not have Conjuration/alternatives in the game. Sorcerers have a unique effect, unrelated to conjuration
Skyrim - Your information as above. So sorcs aren't tied to summoning regardless of conjuration existing.
Morrowind, Oblivion, Battlespire, ESO - Tied to conjuration in some regard (technicality for Battlespire, Conjuration is not a line in the game but Sorcerers start with a Summoning spell)

Sorcs not being tied to conjuration, even if you include the games where conjuration/summoning didn't exist outright, is still a minority.

I personally think that after 10 years of ESO, conjuration is tied to the Second Era's tradition of Sorcery, and removing it now is a bad take. However, I would like to see further emphasis on the lightning & dark magic side of things. The Daedra should compliment this, not be the main focus.

IviRo · February 14

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I dislike daedric summoning because pets take up two slots. ESO has too little bar space and needing to slot pets for both bars makes me feel like I have less variety.

On this thought, i wonder how many folks would just wsnt pets. We already have Companions. I imagine some Wardens would want a couple wolves or guar (maybe swap the Bear too). Necros wanting perma pet. DKs off to the Deadlands to beat fiery spirits to submission. NBs conjuring shadow doubles of themselves.

It'd not be terrible if we had an extra slot or two, just for pets, giving other folks more buddy options. Plus ZOS could sell new creatures/skins easily. I never cared for a Bear or Clannfear, but an Ogrim or Mind Horror? Chefs kiss.

Developers will continue to add new classes in the future, and I think it's worth making some adjustments to the classes where they don't fit. Another alternative would be to move the line to the new warlock class, which seems more appropriate, or to make separate grimoires.

However, I am not sure how a dragon knight associated with Akavir should be sent to the Deadlands.

IviRo · February 14

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Some people cite past TES class data as evidence, but deliberately ignore one crucial point: in the latest version of TES, TES5: Skyrim, Sorc are essentially magic users, and some are even unable to use Conjuration.

While players cannot choose their class in TES5, NPCs still have classes. The table below shows the ability values of various Sorc NPC types in TES5. It clearly shows that in the latest TES5 data, Sorcerer is a magic-using class, proficient in Destruction and Illusion. And the vast majority of Sorcerer NPCs do not use Conjuration.

Therefore, based on the latest data, Sorcerer is undoubtedly a Destruction user, not a summoner.

And they still are Heavy Armor, swinging a weapon, some are Illusionists, etc.

The point isnt to say "shock doesn't matter"

The point is to say "ESO Sorcs pay respect to multiple iterations". ZOS did a great job giving them aspects of ALL previous games.

Amputating 2/3rds all because some people want to play weather witches? You could just give a storm Skill Style to Wardens and another for Templars if you really just want to glow and sparkle.

Aesthetics arent mechanics.

They already have an Infinite Archive set - Monolith of Storms - which has a cool concept for area control. Within the space of "strategy, moblity", mechanics like this could indeed help a Sorcerer feel like theyre in control of a field, setting up danger and repositioning to bait foes across them.

Which is to say, this whole aesthetic wishlist is only skin deep. The gameplay has to come first, the abilities after.

"Oh wow, look at me, I sparkle with lightning!" isnt a playstyle, it's SFX.

There is no need to tie the distinctive feature of the class to the set, which, frankly speaking, does not look very good even from a visual point of view.