Sorcerer rework, new class, new systems, house building, and various improvements for ESO

IviRo · February 12

I didn't know where to post this topic in the forum categories, so I decided to post it here.

SORCERER REWORK

In anticipation of changes to the Sorcerer class, I would like to see Zos focus more on Lightning and Dark Magic, rather than Daedric Summoning.
I would replace the Daedra line with another school of magic as an alternative, it could be Alteration.
If you look at the class description, where it draws its power from, it's more like a Warlock than a Sorcerer.

Actually, as a sorcerer main, I would gladly give up the Daedric Summoning line for a new class that would be exclusively associated with Daedra.

But considering that there are players who love Zoo, I think we need to find alternatives.
1. Develop a new warlock class and add Daedric Summoning to it + create a new skill line to replace sorcerer.
2. Rename the Sorcerer skill line.

- Lightning (we summon lightning, not storms or wind)
- Conjuration
- Dark Magic

3. Rename the class to Warlock, and create the sorcerer from scratch with new abilities that will correspond to the class in the TES series.

I would also like the developers to draw inspiration from Vanus Galerion's abilities (although I always thought that's what a Sorcerer should look like) and the abilities of the cinematic High Elf Hero when reworking the class.

If, in the end, the developers leave everything as it is without changes,
then it would be very strange for me to see Scamp in the call, since I associate this Daedra with fire, I would replace it with Banekin - they are awesome guys and fully correspond to their element of lightning.

I would also like to replace Twilights with Imp or the Daedra Grievous Twilights, so that the line better matches its name.

When considering the visuals of summoning creatures, one would like to see corresponding runes on the ground, in which the summoned Daedra will appear.

As a result, I would make this line available to everyone; it can easily be placed in the mage guild. It's too problematic a skill line, and there are constant arguments about it.

PVP
I understand that we will have the Vengeance company, which you reworked and created from scratch, but why can't the same be done with the usual Cyrodiil, creating it from scratch, fixing a lot of problems, and updating its visual aspects?
You could make the main strongholds of each alliance for each race:
Castle Faregyl - in the style of the Altmer
Castle Black Boot - in the style of the Khajiit
Castle Bloodmayne - in the style of the Wood Elves.
The main ring around the Imperial City will be built in the architectural style of Anvel.
Add key towers to castles, on which ballistas will be located, operating on the same mechanics as in the Kyne's Aegis trial.

New system - GUILD OF CRAFT MASTERS

There are many cities and villages in the game that have been destroyed during quests.
What I propose is to create a guild of craft masters who will restore these places. As they are restored, new quests and storylines will appear in these locations. As a reward, we will receive new craft furnishings, resources, houses, companions, and so on.

Craft Furnishing

More structural furnishing needs to be added to the game.

The main problem in building houses is not the number of slots, but the lack of good fittings that meet the needs of players.
Let me give you an example:
I like the wall on Summerset, I need it for my plans, but I can't craft it, so I have to create an alternative version.

The alternative version took up 16 slots instead of one. (not counting plants and statues )

You can also take another structure.

10 cells instead of one in the house

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Amy

ZOS_Kevin · February 12

Thanks for the feedback here. Currently posting in general is fine for Sorc feedback as we have not started work on this class rework yet. However, happy to pass on feedback as a reference point for when this work starts.

IviRo · February 12

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback here. Currently posting in general is fine for Sorc feedback as we have not started work on this class rework yet. However, happy to pass on feedback as a reference point for when this work starts.

Thanks you!

Malyore · February 12

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

I'd rather see them introduce more diverse morphs. For Daedric summoning, have the base pet be one role, a morphed pet be another role, and allow one of the morphs to not be a pet at all but some other form of spell.

There's no good reason that the unmorphed skills have to just be a worse version of the morphs. Yes, there's a very very short window of a sense of progression when leveling up the skill, but that is trivial compared to player options and role diversity, etc.

@ZOS_Kevin For an unthought example: The base twilight can be the one that heals, a morphed twilight can be the dps, and the other morph can be a player aura that reduces enemy damage and armor.
So, in just one skill you have the choice between which role you play, and for people who don't like to use pets we still get some sort of useful skill.

Malyore · February 12

I agree with a lot of OPs aesthetic comments though. Those grievous twilights sound much more empowering to have at your side rather than flappy bird. And while the spawn animation is based on Skyrim, I also think adding some runes to it would look cool, or adding some sort of "nymic" aspect to it.

xbluerosesx · February 12

@ZOS_Kevin

do not be taking OP's suggestions on removing daedric summoning for sorcs. daedric summoning was the best, you have no idea how many times the twilight matriarch saved my life back as a noob and even now. if people hate it, let us reskin it. don't delete it entirely

Malyore · February 12

xbluerosesx wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

do not be taking OP's suggestions on removing daedric summoning for sorcs. daedric summoning was the best, you have no idea how many times the twilight matriarch saved my life back as a noob and even now. if people hate it, let us reskin it. don't delete it entirely

Maybe an option for a reskin that isn't a daedric pet could be some sort of homing sentry spell, or an apparition of our own player character.

Radiate77 · February 12

Even if Daedric Summoning were to be moved to another class, or just moved to a Conjuration Skill Line, the beauty of it is… you could still use it.

Keep in mind we exist post-Subclassing. They could turn the Scamp into a customizable summon with Scribing free for everyone.

Malyore · February 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

Even if Daedric Summoning were to be moved to another class, or just moved to a Conjuration Skill Line, the beauty of it is… you could still use it.

Keep in mind we exist post-Subclassing. They could turn the Scamp into a customizable summon with Scribing free for everyone.

Yes, if they simply "move" only one line, then with subclassing it is less of an issue. However, if they split a class into two, then there is too great of friction for players.

I think there is wisdom in, if a specific skill is moved out of a class, for it to go into scribing. Especially with class mastery, allowing perhaps still unique options that reflect class identity.

Natasha75 · February 12

The flying pet rework would be helpful. E.g instead of the flying pet, a fire atronach lookalike would be better. Those wings are really annoying.

MincMincMinc · February 12

The problem with subclassing is that we can't have skill lines dedicated to just tanking or just damage. Skill lines need to be their own standalone concept that functions on its own. Luckily sorc doesnt have anything complicated like the crux or corpse system.

For instance daedric pets needs to be its own functioning class. The pets that take up two skills would need to have their active effects be more impactful and active focused. Like instead of matriach being an aoe smartheal, make it so you have to aim at a target and send it to heal that target for 10s. Not aiming at a target would return it to you. Something like clanfear could do a gapclose stun/taunt onto its target. Zos could probably do frontbar/backbar functions too like clanfear gapcloses to enemies on backbar, but does an aoe tailswipe on the frontbar.

Stormcalling basically has all of the stamsorc kit and is close to being standalone already. Dark magic should be used to collect the more classic magsorc shield kit. Things like ward, darkconvergence, curse, frags, mageswrath would fill out the kit. Then its a matter of balancing out the passives so stormcalling doesn't have all the damage, while darkmagic doesn't have all the sustain.

Malyore · February 12

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Dark magic should be used to collect ...

This actually sounds like a fun theme to put into the sorcs kit– "collection". To have them draw some of their power and Magicka not on Crux or Corpses, but on cursing enemies.

This also fits the new sorc description, building up power in combinations of spells.

MincMincMinc · February 12

Malyore wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Dark magic should be used to collect ...

This actually sounds like a fun theme to put into the sorcs kit– "collection". To have them draw some of their power and Magicka not on Crux or Corpses, but on cursing enemies.

This also fits the new sorc description, building up power in combinations of spells.

Well it kinda already played like that. Your damage is all preplanned and timed. You setup curse, setup mages wrath, runecage.

Malyore · February 12

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Dark magic should be used to collect ...

This actually sounds like a fun theme to put into the sorcs kit– "collection". To have them draw some of their power and Magicka not on Crux or Corpses, but on cursing enemies.

This also fits the new sorc description, building up power in combinations of spells.

Well it kinda already played like that. Your damage is all preplanned and timed. You setup curse, setup mages wrath, runecage.

True, they did excel at burst damage. But I suppose I meant in a way that mixes things like siphoning and crux. You drain enemies not just for damage, but to boost your own stats and abilities as well. Something that extends your own functionality.

MincMincMinc · February 12

Malyore wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Dark magic should be used to collect ...

This actually sounds like a fun theme to put into the sorcs kit– "collection". To have them draw some of their power and Magicka not on Crux or Corpses, but on cursing enemies.

This also fits the new sorc description, building up power in combinations of spells.

Well it kinda already played like that. Your damage is all preplanned and timed. You setup curse, setup mages wrath, runecage.

True, they did excel at burst damage. But I suppose I meant in a way that mixes things like siphoning and crux. You drain enemies not just for damage, but to boost your own stats and abilities as well. Something that extends your own functionality.

I think I would rather see it benefit from using shields pre-emptively. Like old shieldsorc would use hardened, harness magicka, and healing ward. However you needed to use them correctly. For instance if you were anticipating a large hit you may cover your healing ward with hardened. Like maybe if hardened had some effect like the shield regenerates if you block a stun with it or something of that sort. Think of it more like a parry system.

Techwolf_Lupindo · February 12

IviRo wrote: »

When considering the visuals of summoning creatures, one would like to see corresponding runes on the ground, in which the summoned Daedra will appear.

Would love to have that as a combat pet instead of flappy wings. Being force to have something that annoys other players is not a good thing. So having options is a good thing. Different combat pets options with the same skill effects would be a huge plus for Sorc and Warden.

Tandor · February 12

Malyore wrote: »

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

Which is good for the long-term health of the game.

As it is, we have a lot of players with a single character who has done it all, and so they have no incentive to log in. Players with alts keep a game alive, as they have never done it all on all their characters.

emilyhyoyeon · February 12

This would annoy me

carly · February 12

xbluerosesx wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

do not be taking OP's suggestions on removing daedric summoning for sorcs. daedric summoning was the best, you have no idea how many times the twilight matriarch saved my life back as a noob and even now. if people hate it, let us reskin it. don't delete it entirely

I agree. For me it's my Clanfear, I love adventuring with him and like your matriach, he has saved me many times. But more than that - I just enjoy having him around. He's become part of my character's identity. If we're going with play as you like then please do not take this ability away from us. It's a deal breaker for me.

Radiate77 · February 12

carly wrote: »

xbluerosesx wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

do not be taking OP's suggestions on removing daedric summoning for sorcs. daedric summoning was the best, you have no idea how many times the twilight matriarch saved my life back as a noob and even now. if people hate it, let us reskin it. don't delete it entirely

I agree. For me it's my Clanfear, I love adventuring with him and like your matriach, he has saved me many times. But more than that - I just enjoy having him around. He's become part of my character's identity. If we're going with play as you like then please do not take this ability away from us. It's a deal breaker for me.

How would his proposition take Clannfear away?

With Subclassing you would be able to trade out the new Sorcerer Skill Line with whichever “Warlock” one would then have Clannfear?

BretonMage · February 12

To me, sorcerers are about lightning magic and daedric summoning. I love Crystal Fragments, but I honestly don't see what crystals have to do with dark magic; the Dark Magic line never seemed much like an Elder Scrolls skill tree to me. I honestly would prefer Crystal Fragments to be part of either Storm Calling or Daedric Summoning.

I am rather fond of the Twilight, it's an iconic TES daedra since Morrowind. I think most people would be more accepting of it if you could just make it land when the player isn't moving.

Malyore · February 12

Tandor wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

Which is good for the long-term health of the game.

As it is, we have a lot of players with a single character who has done it all, and so they have no incentive to log in. Players with alts keep a game alive, as they have never done it all on all their characters.

Alts aren't what bring me back to logging into the game, quite the opposite. New content to continue the character I have made over the course of years is what brings me into this game.
I log onto an alt and see things like the lack of mount upgrades, skill points, mages and psijic skill line, etc. and I think "I don't want to have to do this again." And I don't. I log back out.

If my main character had its class ripped into two (for example, if they made sorcs entirely pet based), I would not be rosy cheeked to be making a brand new character. I would uninstall the game.

Tandor · February 12

Malyore wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

Which is good for the long-term health of the game.

As it is, we have a lot of players with a single character who has done it all, and so they have no incentive to log in. Players with alts keep a game alive, as they have never done it all on all their characters.

Alts aren't what bring me back to logging into the game, quite the opposite. New content to continue the character I have made over the course of years is what brings me into this game.
I log onto an alt and see things like the lack of mount upgrades, skill points, mages and psijic skill line, etc. and I think "I don't want to have to do this again." And I don't. I log back out.

If my main character had its class ripped into two (for example, if they made sorcs entirely pet based), I would not be rosy cheeked to be making a brand new character. I would uninstall the game.

But new content is becoming much less frequent, which may explain why a lot of players say they're playing less these days.

Emeratis · February 13

Tandor wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

The thing with adding new classes is, if people want to use that new class (not just the one line from multi/subclassing) then they have to make a whole new character.

Which is good for the long-term health of the game.

As it is, we have a lot of players with a single character who has done it all, and so they have no incentive to log in. Players with alts keep a game alive, as they have never done it all on all their characters.

This is not true for everyone. As much as I love my alts, I have 66% of my playtime on my main and I never get tired of playing my main even if I've done most things in game on her. I know some people who have one character and do not want to play others and when they feel they can't play that character or are forced to play others, they just stop playing or play way less. We need to stop pretending that players are a monolith. Different gamers have different likes, dislikes, and needs and one of the best things about eso is it's good at reaching a lot of people with different playstyles, goals, and desires but the tricky part is because of that I notice a lot of people tend to think automatically think everyone thinks about or plays the game like them when they don't.

As for the main topic, as much as I hate petsorc and I quit playing my sorcs when it felt required in pve or converted them into pvp characters, I don't think cutting off a part of a class is a good thing. DK had poison added in 2015 and there were people upset about losing poison in dk's kit on the pts. I asked in a discord server earlier and two sorc mains and several sorc casuals I know said they absolutely do not want to see pets removed from sorcerer entirely regardless of how they personally feel about the build. While subclassing means that things could be made like sorc originally was, as I mentioned in another thread, the more that gets changed dramatically in base classes the more zos probably would have to look into and work on class change tokens because it's not overly fair to dramatically change a base class that some players have played for up to a decade and players would understandably have some strong feelings about that.

Asdara · February 13

I’ll die on that hill but : Sorcerers ARE lightning.

The Sorcerer is the mage archetype of ESO. Not a faction, not a doctrine, not an organized order. In tes lore, a “sorcerer” is simply a mage who relies on personal power rather than institutional teaching. That freedom is exactly what defines the class.

If we look at the roots of the archetype across the series, Sorcerers embody raw magic force: Destruction for offense, Alteration for protection, and sometimes Conjuration as a tool. But their identity has never been “Daedra specialist” or “dark ritualist”. That fantasy belongs to conjurers, necromancers, or cultists.

The visual identity that consistently defines the Sorcerer fantasy is shock.

(Shock magic in Elder Scrolls has always represented uncontrolled, volatile power. Lightning is fast, violent, and overwhelming. It doesn’t creep like frost or burn steadily like fire. It strikes. It feels like raw magick made visible.)

When you think of a Sorcerer, the fantasy isn’t “Daedric circles and pets everywhere”. It’s a mage standing in the middle of a storm, magicka crackling through the air, electricity dancing across their body.

Look at the original class imagery:

No pets. No Daedric summoning circles. No dark rituals.
What defines the Sorcerer visually is shock energy surrounding them.

That’s the core fantasy.

when the class is being reworked, the direction should embrace that identity. Daedric tools can remain part of the kit, but they shouldn’t dominate the visual language of the class. The Sorcerer shouldn’t feel like a Daedric handler. It should feel like a living storm.

Every ability should feel infused with electricity. Even defensive or utility skills could carry arcs of energy, static effects, or storm auras. Casting should feel like charging the air. Movement should leave traces of lightning. The battlefield should feel saturated with static when a Sorcerer is present.

The fantasy isn’t “summoner with some lightning”.

SilverIce58 · February 13

So wait, you want to get rid of daedric summoning and replace it with...conjuration? Isn't that the exact same thing? Conjuration is literally the in universe term for the daedric summoning school of magic.

I do agree about some aesthetic changes to the daedra summoned however. The Grievous Twilight for example replacing the Twilight Tormentor (but keeping the Matriarch on the other morph) would be a welcome addition. I also wouldnt mind the scamp changed out for the lightning powered banekin, but leave the Clannfear there please. The only other change Id make to what creatures we can summon would be an Air Atronach as a physical version of the storm Atronach. I get that in the beginning of the game, Air Atronachs were rare creatures created by the fusion of storm, frost, and fire, but nowadays theyre so common that why wouldn't a daedric summoning sorceror be able to conjure one? Id think we'd have learned by this point.

Mr_Madness · February 13

Please leave Scamp as a skill style atleast. I love the little daedra since they remind me of Gremlins and who hates gremlins

IviRo · February 13

Asdara wrote: »

I’ll die on that hill but : Sorcerers ARE lightning.

The Sorcerer is the mage archetype of ESO. Not a faction, not a doctrine, not an organized order. In tes lore, a “sorcerer” is simply a mage who relies on personal power rather than institutional teaching. That freedom is exactly what defines the class.

If we look at the roots of the archetype across the series, Sorcerers embody raw magic force: Destruction for offense, Alteration for protection, and sometimes Conjuration as a tool. But their identity has never been “Daedra specialist” or “dark ritualist”. That fantasy belongs to conjurers, necromancers, or cultists.

The visual identity that consistently defines the Sorcerer fantasy is shock.

(Shock magic in Elder Scrolls has always represented uncontrolled, volatile power. Lightning is fast, violent, and overwhelming. It doesn’t creep like frost or burn steadily like fire. It strikes. It feels like raw magick made visible.)

When you think of a Sorcerer, the fantasy isn’t “Daedric circles and pets everywhere”. It’s a mage standing in the middle of a storm, magicka crackling through the air, electricity dancing across their body.

Look at the original class imagery:

No pets. No Daedric summoning circles. No dark rituals.
What defines the Sorcerer visually is shock energy surrounding them.

That’s the core fantasy.

when the class is being reworked, the direction should embrace that identity. Daedric tools can remain part of the kit, but they shouldn’t dominate the visual language of the class. The Sorcerer shouldn’t feel like a Daedric handler. It should feel like a living storm.

Every ability should feel infused with electricity. Even defensive or utility skills could carry arcs of energy, static effects, or storm auras. Casting should feel like charging the air. Movement should leave traces of lightning. The battlefield should feel saturated with static when a Sorcerer is present.

The fantasy isn’t “summoner with some lightning”.

You have provided the most accurate description of this class.
I completely agree with you and endorse every word you have said.

Radiate77 · February 13

Imagine if instead of Crystal Fragments, we have Chain Lightning, same exact functionality and damage, but instead of one target, it could chain around 2-3 times, and with it proc’d, it could chain 4-5 times?

BretonMage · February 13

Asdara wrote: »

I’ll die on that hill but : Sorcerers ARE lightning.

The Sorcerer is the mage archetype of ESO. Not a faction, not a doctrine, not an organized order. In tes lore, a “sorcerer” is simply a mage who relies on personal power rather than institutional teaching. That freedom is exactly what defines the class.

If we look at the roots of the archetype across the series, Sorcerers embody raw magic force: Destruction for offense, Alteration for protection, and sometimes Conjuration as a tool. But their identity has never been “Daedra specialist” or “dark ritualist”. That fantasy belongs to conjurers, necromancers, or cultists.

The visual identity that consistently defines the Sorcerer fantasy is shock.

(Shock magic in Elder Scrolls has always represented uncontrolled, volatile power. Lightning is fast, violent, and overwhelming. It doesn’t creep like frost or burn steadily like fire. It strikes. It feels like raw magick made visible.)

When you think of a Sorcerer, the fantasy isn’t “Daedric circles and pets everywhere”. It’s a mage standing in the middle of a storm, magicka crackling through the air, electricity dancing across their body.

Look at the original class imagery:

No pets. No Daedric summoning circles. No dark rituals.
What defines the Sorcerer visually is shock energy surrounding them.

That’s the core fantasy.

when the class is being reworked, the direction should embrace that identity. Daedric tools can remain part of the kit, but they shouldn’t dominate the visual language of the class. The Sorcerer shouldn’t feel like a Daedric handler. It should feel like a living storm.

Every ability should feel infused with electricity. Even defensive or utility skills could carry arcs of energy, static effects, or storm auras. Casting should feel like charging the air. Movement should leave traces of lightning. The battlefield should feel saturated with static when a Sorcerer is present.

The fantasy isn’t “summoner with some lightning”.

I actually agree. I think we should keep daedric pets, since conjuration is a part of the sorcerer's toolkit, but otherwise I totally agree that the identity of the sorcerer should revolve around lightning magic. Dark magic, otoh, had never been a sorc thing in TES. I'm honestly a bit horrified they want to lean into Dark Magic for sorcs, I've never seen sorcerers as being "dark" - they're elementalists first and foremost.

(Quoting the entirety of your post because I really enjoyed and agree with it).

Emeratis · February 13

The crystal magic is actually my favorite line in the sorcerer lines thematically and I have a character who is a sorcerer that her main magic is crystal magic and manipulation and I've been going crazy daydreaming Welkynd and Culanda based skill styles for that line for her so that would be the skill line of sorc that I'd be furious if it was cut because it would ruin one of my character's themes. Again, several of the classes had awkward thematic bundles, but people settled on those classes for various reasons both popular and unpopular thematically. Ideally the class rework embraces diversity and we have more than one option for class expression. I mentioned this in the nightblade feedback thread, and when I brought up this thread in a discord earlier many people lamented that in the pet vs no pet sorc preference they wish both would be viable/strong/optional again so people could play how they want.

I feel if we want to really talk about splicing up existing classes the only way people would be satisfied with that fully is if the class system is abolished and we can just pick three skill lines that might happen to be the original classes but might be something new. I'm not opposed to this direction, but given how contentious subclassing can be some people would not like this. Either way, it comes back to the debate on what is fair with classes, class rework, and subclassing and that answer is subjective and based on what the class means to you and what you value.