Please add Voice Chat to PC with Crossplay

DenverRalphy · February 13

Danikat wrote: »

I was wondering why anyone who isn't willing to submit a scan of their ID would be ok with giving Discord their credit card information and it genuinely took me a minute to remember they added the option to pay for glitter spam on your profile and servers. But still, if you've already handed over banking details and money adding an ID probably isn't going to do any more harm.

More importantly though Discords verification is only required for servers or channels marked as adults-only, so the simple fix is for server admins to make sure that's not the case if it's not necessary. I'm in the UK so we got hit with this a while ago and I honestly didn't notice until people in other countries started talking about it and I went to check my settings. I haven't given them any ID or face scans or anything except the basic info required to set up an account and it hasn't stopped me using it at all.

Yeah, I'm not too concerned with it myself. I'll just go unverified until the off chance I have issues using a server that's adult rated (I've yet to actually stumble across one). And even then, I'd just take a quick video selfie spouting some gobbledegook and submit it.

I am a Nitro subscriber because I occasionally collaborate on, or correspond with, a lot of media development over discord. So the larger upload filesizes are essential to me. But even then I purchase Nitro gift cards from Amazon because Discord doesn't (IMO) have a stellar reputation for securing privacy data.

ESO_player123 · February 13

zenonuk wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

zenonuk wrote: »

Re. the comment on Discord - you do not need to provide personal information, and do not need to validate your account. By default Discord will assume you are under 18 and simply restrict access to adult tagged servers - if your guild doesn't tag their server as 18+ you can continue to use Discord without giving any personal information. The age check stuff was pushed out to UK users last year, and I still haven't verified my account and I'm not seeing any reduction in service with any of the guilds I'm in. Don't panic, it's the usual over-reporting.

I read their official article and I don't think it will be that bad. Hopefully they can use common sense verification too, credit card history, account age, etc. So far one of my guild masters started a feedback conversation about it and no one was willing to submit their government id's. Even biometric data and having AI constantly scan your interactions is a bit much. I'll still use discord most likely but will be limiting running it in the background in the future.

All the more reason to have a non-third party option would be great if done well. ZoS has made tons of money on this game, reinvestment in accessibility communication would be nice. Asking random pugs to use 3rd party apps is asking a bit much, so it causes a lack of communication.

To add a bit more information for people worried about Discord and the data they hold....

You can request your Discord data through settings (Data and Privacy)... when you get the download (It'll be given to you as a zip file), you can find the results of their AI/"intelligence" based on your interactions, credit card details, etc. in that data dump. Unless you verify your age/ID, they don't actually know your age, just an approximation of what they think from your interactions with Discord itself (and whether there's payment information entered, etc.).

For example in case anyone wants to find this themselves, from the last data request I did (I request this usually every couple of years), I can open the zip file, under the folder Activity/Analytics, I see a file named "events-2024-00000-of-00001.json.". In there I can see this (open the file in any notepad/editor):

"age": "35+",
"predicted_age": "35+",
"probability": 0.85989421606063843,
"prob_13_17": 9.6573690825607628e-05,
"prob_18_24": 0.004423532634973526,
"prob_25_34": 0.13558562099933624,
"prob_35_over": 0.85989421606063843,

So no matter whether you verify your profile or not (I haven't), you can still see the results of their analysis/AI/"intelligence" if you request your data and inspect the download.

And this also shows how bad their intelligence really is - there's an ~85% probability I'm over 35, but also an ~956% probability I'm a teenager - probably because I've not verified my profile and given them any formal ID, face scan, etc. No idea which they use in any situation, but can't say I really care - they know nothing of value.

Whether you're comfortable with this behaviour/data snooping is up to you, but they only know whatever you're prepared to give them, and as I said earlier, you really don't need to give them anything - unless your guild server owner has tagged it as 18+.

[EDIT: NB: If you are worried about Discord's use of your data, you should at a minimum go to settings, Data and Privacy, and disable EVERY option under there, ensuring that only the minimum amount of data is sent and processed by Discord. This doesn't stop all the transfer of data, and if you look in the data dump you'll see they track every mouse click and interaction you have on the platform - it's how their predictions/"intelligence" works - but it will reduce your exposure.]

@zenonuk I think you missed the e-05 in the end of 9.6573690825607628e-05. They definitely do not think that you are a teenager.

tomofhyrule · February 13

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

This should be the end right here.

We already are seeing players turning on each other because their favorite content was sacrificed on the altar of “we have limited resources and focused on something else instead.” (RIP Dungeons…)

I can’t imagine the outrage if it came out that they spent the dev time on this chat tool that only the most minuscule number of PC players would use, and we missed something big for it. How would the “I only play ESO solo!” crowd handle it if they had to go a full year with no new stories, but at least they get a voice feature that they’ll never use because they don’t group that is inferior in every way to a third-party option they still don’t use.

DenverRalphy · February 13

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

This should be the end right here.

We already are seeing players turning on each other because their favorite content was sacrificed on the altar of “we have limited resources and focused on something else instead.” (RIP Dungeons…)

I can’t imagine the outrage if it came out that they spent the dev time on this chat tool that only the most minuscule number of PC players would use, and we missed something big for it. How would the “I only play ESO solo!” crowd handle it if they had to go a full year with no new stories, but at least they get a voice feature that they’ll never use because they don’t group that is inferior in every way to a third-party option they still don’t use.

I get what you're saying here. And for the most part, I agree. My initial reaction to this topic wasn't favorable. But I've since had time to chew on it a bit.

However the focus of the thread isn't on implementing native VC for the game in its current state. But instead asking that it be implemented with Crossplay when that eventually comes to fruition. I'm not a fan of the idea to bring Crossplay to ESO. But if it's going to happen, it has to be done right, pulling out all the stops. Cross platform communication would be a significant part of that. No room for half measures there.

The current VC implementation on consoles is.. well it's not great. I wouldn't wish that in PC players.

vulonsil · February 13

Most services these days allow you to use Paypal to pay, which means that your card info is there and not in 250 random places around the internet. While not 100% secure either, it's still better than adding your card info everywhere.

No digital service should require your ID, the only legit place where it's been asked digitally was when a car-renting service needed the driver's driver's license. No other legit service ever has asked for it digitally at least here. There are better ways of checking identification, which don't require the whole ID. And if the idea is to keep kiddies away from adult spaces, someone having a credit card should be enough proof that they either are an adult or have an adult's permission. Credit cards are also protected by the bank/insurance, IDs are not. If a digital service requires an ID, I'm out. No legit digital service has any business asking for people's ID.

If Discord goes out, I'm sure there are other services people can use among friends. Or someone will develop one. People will rather pay a few euros per month for a good service than go with this idiocy.

Erickson9610 · February 13

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

After the recent news of privacy concerns impacting voice chat solutions for PC, it's imperative that ESO players have some fallback method of communicating with one another.

I want to see the voice chat feature from consoles brought to PC when Crossplay happens, and have voice chat be off by default.

Giving PC players access to the Voice Chat feature would allow them to communicate with each other, as well as allow them to communicate with console players. It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

We can't expect everyone to agree on and use an external platform for voice chat, so it makes the most sense to make a feature like this usable on all platforms that ESO can be played on.

We'll pass thing along to the team working on Crossplay to see if any of this is possible and the use case. No guarantees though.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

Thank you for the quick response!

I can say that I would personally use this feature to explain dungeon mechanics to people, especially if they didn't have access to or want to install a separate app. I'd also use it to talk with people in my group in PvP, so that I can call out important details like enemy locations in a time-sensitive manner — it's faster to communicate with voice rather than by text, especially if you're left vulnerable while typing.

Aside from that, I am also interested in the proximity voice chat feature with people who are not in my group. It's nice to hear a group of people having a conversation in a public space, and maybe join in on the conversation — like voice equivalent of /say chat. I know how to mute people I don't want to hear, so I don't have an issue with people who leave their mic open with loud music.

DenverRalphy · February 13

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

After the recent news of privacy concerns impacting voice chat solutions for PC, it's imperative that ESO players have some fallback method of communicating with one another.

I want to see the voice chat feature from consoles brought to PC when Crossplay happens, and have voice chat be off by default.

Giving PC players access to the Voice Chat feature would allow them to communicate with each other, as well as allow them to communicate with console players. It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

We can't expect everyone to agree on and use an external platform for voice chat, so it makes the most sense to make a feature like this usable on all platforms that ESO can be played on.

We'll pass thing along to the team working on Crossplay to see if any of this is possible and the use case. No guarantees though.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

<snip>

Aside from that, I am also interested in the proximity voice chat feature with people who are not in my group. It's nice to hear a group of people having a conversation in a public space, and maybe join in on the conversation — like voice equivalent of /say chat. I know how to mute people I don't want to hear, so I don't have an issue with people who leave their mic open with loud music.

Unfortunately, in it's current form, you can't mute/block/adjust-volume individual players with ESO's in game voice chat. So there's no way to filter out the loud music, crying children, and spouse aggro.

Erickson9610 · February 13

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

After the recent news of privacy concerns impacting voice chat solutions for PC, it's imperative that ESO players have some fallback method of communicating with one another.

I want to see the voice chat feature from consoles brought to PC when Crossplay happens, and have voice chat be off by default.

Giving PC players access to the Voice Chat feature would allow them to communicate with each other, as well as allow them to communicate with console players. It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

We can't expect everyone to agree on and use an external platform for voice chat, so it makes the most sense to make a feature like this usable on all platforms that ESO can be played on.

We'll pass thing along to the team working on Crossplay to see if any of this is possible and the use case. No guarantees though.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

One note we wanted to follow up on. We do need to be mindful of the potential usage of what we make. Spending resources and dev time on something that could mostly go unused is not a great way to spend those resources. Especially when we could be making something that could hold more utility for more players. Just wanted to add context there as it is important when considering features.

<snip>

Aside from that, I am also interested in the proximity voice chat feature with people who are not in my group. It's nice to hear a group of people having a conversation in a public space, and maybe join in on the conversation — like voice equivalent of /say chat. I know how to mute people I don't want to hear, so I don't have an issue with people who leave their mic open with loud music.

Unfortunately, in it's current form, you can't mute/block/adjust-volume individual players with ESO's in game voice chat. So there's no way to filter out the loud music, crying children, and spouse aggro.

That has to be added soon, then. Even if PC players won't get to have voice chat, the console players who already have it should be given that option.

heimdall14_9 · February 13

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

That's a big expense and problematic.

ZOS would have to actively monitor the voice chat under the law.

Does this mean consoles will lose the voice chat feature? There's no way Crossplay will go live with only a portion of the community having in-game voice chat, right?

Console voice chat is through Microsoft (Xbox) and Sony (PS), with both also having integreated discord options. At present, for the purposes of the OSA Microsoft and Sony have to monitor the voice chat by law.

Also worth noting, the UK government is trying to get Discord under the same monitoring provisions as computer games companies for voice chat.

Edit: I'd love the feature, if it worked well, but one way or another someone is invading your privacy. The expense of monitoring, and having to set up that monitoring, I'd rather fell on Discord's head, and not on the development budget for ESO.

eso game chat on PSN is ran and controlled by the game , theres been lot of times we have had to use the PSN chat due to ESO chat being out / bugged for others in raids but over all ESO has its own chat governor by them not PSN

Orbital78 · February 14

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Unfortunately, in it's current form, you can't mute/block/adjust-volume individual players with ESO's in game voice chat. So there's no way to filter out the loud music, crying children, and spouse aggro.

Surely they can do better, Helldivers 2 voice seems to function pretty decent. It has mute or block options for those that use open mic poorly or are bothersome. It might require a larger ignore list or a separate mute list. If Playstation can do it, surely Xbox/Microsoft/Bethesda can, no?

Emeratis · February 14

What I've heard of eso's voice chat from people who play/played on console and the fact that most games don't properly moderate it is why I'm so against it coming to pc. I don't play any games that have an in game voice chat feature and I really don't think what it adds to eso is worth the bad that will also come from it. I would rather them rework the tab system to mark locations too and/or have a set of pings that give neutral communication that cannot be abused as easily.

I would much rather they spend their time developing other things in game that are more useful/helpful. I also dislike how we were told that working on voice chat would take away from other game features and content. I already don't like in game voice chats but losing something I might like or love to it makes me extra averse to it.

xylena · February 14

the mouth breather

the crackling bag of chips

the parent with screaming children

etc etc I don't want to hear any of this I would be turning this off

DenverRalphy · February 14

Orbital78 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Unfortunately, in it's current form, you can't mute/block/adjust-volume individual players with ESO's in game voice chat. So there's no way to filter out the loud music, crying children, and spouse aggro.

Surely they can do better, Helldivers 2 voice seems to function pretty decent. It has mute or block options for those that use open mic poorly or are bothersome. It might require a larger ignore list or a separate mute list. If Playstation can do it, surely Xbox/Microsoft/Bethesda can, no?

Yes, they could do better. But for whatever reason only ZOS knows, they've chosen not to. I'm sure the notion to improve it has come up multiple times over the last 10 years (well, more that I hope it has). Each time the numbers were probably crunched, and ultimately dismissed.

Thalmar · February 14

If I recall right, when ESO first time being announced the release date was 2013, but it postponed to 2014 because devs decided to release the game for consoles in addition to PC. It is one of the biggest desicion devs give that I made to quit ESO,. I simply didn"t want to share a game with teens. No adult content aka no blood no sexual content aka pegi 3 instead of pegi 18.

I have been silent in the process of combining consoles with PC, but it looks like forums are dominated by console players who have problems with population. I just want to give my two cent that not only I am against to an addition to a client chat tool I am also against to combine servers.

The devs really need to think through if they really want to lose all their long term adult customers who made the most purcheses to vocal minority of console players who are asking for combinig servers and adding a security breach Voice Chat to PC.

I as a paying customer do NOT want servers to be merge with consoles, quantity is never better than quality! I will make a silly anectode here, superman, James Bond or indiana Jones were for older generations, you will never make the same impact for the new generations. Elder Scroll was for older gamers do not try to mix both. If you get greedy to make a game for both, you will lose either side. Let everyone play on their servers if you merge them outcome will be less than you have anticipated.

KingArthasMenethil · February 15

I have no faith in humanity in voice chat being good on PC.

Orbital78 · February 18

KingArthasMenethil wrote: »

I have no faith in humanity in voice chat being good on PC.

At least it would be an option for those without a keyboard nearby, or hands off it.

edward_frigidhands · February 19

Erickson9610 wrote: »

After the recent news of privacy concerns impacting voice chat solutions for PC, it's imperative that ESO players have some fallback method of communicating with one another.

I want to see the voice chat feature from consoles brought to PC when Crossplay happens, and have voice chat be off by default.

Giving PC players access to the Voice Chat feature would allow them to communicate with each other, as well as allow them to communicate with console players. It's fine if the feature ultimately goes unused, but it should always be an option in case our preferred options are no longer viable.

We can't expect everyone to agree on and use an external platform for voice chat, so it makes the most sense to make a feature like this usable on all platforms that ESO can be played on.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I support this but my only concern is how this will impact the already burdened server and connectivity issues present.

SilverBride · February 19

I think they should try merging the consoles together first and see if it makes any impact. They have the same way of playing, i.e. with a controller rather than keyboard and mouse, proximity voice chat, new to addons, a different economy, and many other similarities that are very different from PC. It would make sense to try something like that before trying to mix very different types of systems into the same server.

And what about addons? I assume console addons have some major differences from PC addons. How will that work?

karthrag_inak · February 19

no thanks. khajiit can think of literally dozens of features he would rather see worked on.

karthrag_inak · February 19

like hugs. hug emotes.for everyone

KalevaLaine · February 19

Ingame chat was always horrible.

I started on PS4, there were almost only strange people with background noises or loud music, so - no need.

Orbital78 · February 19

That is like saying we don't need zone chat. It is filled with weird and often toxic people. We would need a less limited ignore/mute filter. I turned off zone chat, voice would need the same option. I minimize the whole chat window actually since I don't use my keyboard most of the time. Sadly push to talk isn't mandatory but it still works in discord. I guess randoms just won't get to communicate.

FieryPhoenix · February 19

On console although the voice chat is defaulted to “on” you can leave voice area chat and the system will remember your preferences, so its not like you are being forced to be in area voice chat if you don’t want to (other than your initial load into the game).

I’m not really a fan of crossplay myself, I don’t want merged economies or merged scoring as PC has an advantage in both. IF they are going to merge servers voice chat will be needed for grouping or or everyone will just end up making group finder listing like “no voice chat” or “PC only” or “discord only voice chat”. (I mean this still might happen as people are, well… people, but this is a key feature that without proper integration will inhibit grouping which is the entire point of crossplay.) I think ZOS’s time would be better spent looking at WHY people are leaving the game and addressing that, instead of slapping the crossplay band-aid on.

AlexanderDeLarge · February 19

I always assumed voice chat was a given on PC if we were being merged in with consoles. Without it, I don't want crossplay. The game is anti-social enough and I'm not going to expect a console player to have a keyboard or use on-screen input.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

no thanks. khajiit can think of literally dozens of features he would rather see worked on.

I can't think of anything more important than enabling console players to feasibly interact and socialize with PC players in a crossplay MMORPG.

SilverBride · February 19

FieryPhoenix wrote: »

...everyone will just end up making group finder listing like “no voice chat” or “PC only” or “discord only voice chat”. (I mean this still might happen as people are, well… people, but this is a key feature that without proper integration will inhibit grouping which is the entire point of crossplay.)

PC players do not use voice chat for pug groups. I've never seen a group finder listing mentioning voice for anything, not even trials. Organized groups like our guild's trial groups use discord, but not pugs.

Orbital78 · February 19

SilverBride wrote: »

FieryPhoenix wrote: »

...everyone will just end up making group finder listing like “no voice chat” or “PC only” or “discord only voice chat”. (I mean this still might happen as people are, well… people, but this is a key feature that without proper integration will inhibit grouping which is the entire point of crossplay.)

PC players do not use voice chat for pug groups. I've never seen a group finder listing mentioning voice for anything, not even trials. Organized groups like our guild's trial groups use discord, but not pugs.

My guilds require discord or get kicked in the group finder listings. A few don't read or refuse and get replaced.

SilverBride · February 19

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I always assumed voice chat was a given on PC if we were being merged in with consoles. Without it, I don't want crossplay. The game is anti-social enough and I'm not going to expect a console player to have a keyboard or use on-screen input.

By the same token PC players shouldn't be expected to use a feature that has never existed on PC for the past 12 years.

DenverRalphy · February 19

SilverBride wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I always assumed voice chat was a given on PC if we were being merged in with consoles. Without it, I don't want crossplay. The game is anti-social enough and I'm not going to expect a console player to have a keyboard or use on-screen input.

By the same token PC players shouldn't be expected to use a feature that has never existed on PC for the past 12 years.

If they don't expect to use it, then they shouldn't be in favor of going Crossplay.

SilverBride · February 19

Orbital78 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FieryPhoenix wrote: »

...everyone will just end up making group finder listing like “no voice chat” or “PC only” or “discord only voice chat”. (I mean this still might happen as people are, well… people, but this is a key feature that without proper integration will inhibit grouping which is the entire point of crossplay.)

PC players do not use voice chat for pug groups. I've never seen a group finder listing mentioning voice for anything, not even trials. Organized groups like our guild's trial groups use discord, but not pugs.

My guilds require discord or get kicked in the group finder listings. A few don't read or refuse and get replaced.

That is the exception, not the norm. I've never seen it on PC.

SilverBride · February 19

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I always assumed voice chat was a given on PC if we were being merged in with consoles. Without it, I don't want crossplay. The game is anti-social enough and I'm not going to expect a console player to have a keyboard or use on-screen input.

By the same token PC players shouldn't be expected to use a feature that has never existed on PC for the past 12 years.

If they don't expect to use it, then they shouldn't be in favor of going Crossplay.

I'm not in favor of cross play.