Deathmatch Only BGs queue

xylena · February 8

Since you guys are revisiting 3s, can we also revisit the DM queue?

Many of the issues with 3s were due to objective modes becoming incoherent.

The combined queue has failed year after year.

Decimus · February 8

They should just redesign "competitive" 4v4, remove the objective modes from it and turn it into 3v3 solo shuffle or 3v3/4v4 group match with proper MMR, ranks etc.

Objectives in 8v8 have a lot of issues but can be fun when they're working properly... Crazy King for example results in some pretty good matches typically.

Other modes can be fixed, as can be seen on so many other (more successful) MMOs employing objective game modes in their battlegrounds format.

Thumbless_Bot · February 8

Decimus wrote: »

They should just redesign "competitive" 4v4, remove the objective modes from it and turn it into 3v3 solo shuffle or 3v3/4v4 group match with proper MMR, ranks etc.

I think this is a good idea and I think a lot of my bg guild mates would agree... as long as MMR was implemented appropriately and based on kda and not whatever it is now. If anything. Healbots never dying and winning a 0-0 DM because they outheal the other team is not my idea of a fun bg/dm experience. Also a lot of my guildies would likely agree.

They should bring this back with two and three team formats as well. That way people can....

Play
The
Way
They
Want

@ZOS_Kevin

xylena · February 9

The combined DM/OBJ queue is like showing up at a poker table, half the table has standard playing cards, the other half shows up with Pokemon cards.

So I'm not sure why any serious deathmatcher wouldn't want DM queue, unless they actually prefer to stomp on casual objective players in objective matches?

Wouldn't surprise me if that were the case, but catering to pug stompers is a dead game, basically bad PvE with extra steps, e.g. the horrendous ball group meta that killed Cyrodiil.

Maitsukas · February 9

I personally would have a random 4v4 (ranked), 8v8 (unranked) and 4v4v4 (unranked for the time being) as options, but I'd wait for the player reception to 4v4v4 weekends on LIVE servers first.

tsaescishoeshiner · February 9

I think a middleground is to have more death match–like game modes. So the objective is still killing players, but maybe there are extra power sigils, flags that you can capture for a team powerup, weather modifiers, stage hazards, daedric weapons and special transformations.

People seem to like death match, but variety is also nice.

heimdall14_9 · February 10

they should remove DM all together from bgs and make some other small scale pvp area that is FREE FOR ALL no teams just solo q battle royal style with 8-12 players pre match up , this would be an better playing field for them that want every match up to be DM , but i dont think a lot of pvp players would like not having friendly help as eso pvp players dont seem to like to fight 1v1 they always like outnumbering others in order to fight someone

xylena · February 10

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

FREE FOR ALL no teams just solo q battle royal style

Yeah I would love this. Players loved the pre-nerf infinite brawl in Memorial District IC.

robpr · February 10

DM only queue was novel at first but quickly became a desolate mode because all DMs were 2 teams spawncamping the third one making people leave while people wanting objective based games (for achievements for example) did not queue at all because it would always end as DM.
People stay if they have a slight fighting chance for at least holding points if they can't kill the opponent. This is also why current BGs also do not work, because its too easy to lock opposing team on the respawn.

As a weekend mode AP booster sure, as a permanent queue it will kill BG even more

Thumbless_Bot · February 10

If you can queue into other modes i dont see how your argument is relevant. Those that want dm get it. Those that do not, also get what they want. It has the added benefit if removing folks that focus killing in other modes. Othwr objectives are not my jam, but to each their own. I got to battlegrounds to battle, not race through an obstacle course to flags. Maybe that's a thing we can suggest to make objectives more engaging though... make it more like american ninja warrior or something where you have to compete against each other and the course to get to the objective. Might be fun...

robpr · February 11

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

If you can queue into other modes i dont see how your argument is relevant. Those that want dm get it. Those that do not, also get what they want.

We had the DM only queue for a while, getting non-DM game was almost impossible because the game was putting random queue back to DM queue because matchmaker was prioritising to fill teams that had least missing players first.

I agree with objective games not being very engaging, but that apply mostly to Domination and relic. Crazy King is great, chaos ball is just a goose chase but it incentivises to fight too.
Domination could for example make people to pickup up the flag and stay in the zone for the score to go up. Kill the flag bearer to capture the point.

I don't have ideas for improving CtR though, that mode is fundamentally flawed for the pace and size of the maps. CTFs only made sense in arena shooters.

xylena · February 11

robpr wrote: »

We had the DM only queue for a while, getting non-DM game was almost impossible because the game was putting random queue back to DM queue because matchmaker was prioritising to fill teams that had least missing players first.

Yeah that's why they said they recombined the modes. Which killed both modes, because right now we have a worthless compromise that nobody actually wants.

If the objective modes are so unpopular that they can't even fill a queue, why are we still pushing them on players? Make it all DM, put the OBJ modes on the shelf for special events only.

gariondavey · February 11

robpr wrote: »

DM only queue was novel at first but quickly became a desolate mode because all DMs were 2 teams spawncamping the third one making people leave while people wanting objective based games (for achievements for example) did not queue at all because it would always end as DM.
People stay if they have a slight fighting chance for at least holding points if they can't kill the opponent. This is also why current BGs also do not work, because its too easy to lock opposing team on the respawn.

As a weekend mode AP booster sure, as a permanent queue it will kill BG even more

3 team dm can easily help solve issues like that by giving respawning players 100 percent extra damage for the first 20-30 seconds they are alive

xylena · 12:20PM

gariondavey wrote: »

3 team dm can easily help solve issues

Letting players fight over 2nd place in 3s for their daily reward does help prevent the match from going dead, but 3s are often a waste of time if you're playing for 1st. Half your team won't even try for 1st because it means fighting against sweatlords and now the game turns into 8v4.

The bad MMR and lack of mercy rule is what's causing bad 2s, not really the format itself, and these problems hurt 3s just as much. I think 3s need a mercy rule also because they are such a waste of time if you are stuck on the 3rd place team getting bullied 8v4 the whole match.