Werewolf buff idea

fenn1539 · February 3

this is a simple one i thought of while making a max hp build and realizing that unlike the other 2 transformations where the vamp gives you a flat 10k hp and bone goliath gives you a flat 30k hp, i feel like the werewolf should give like a 15k flat hp as its the in between of the 2 and would help not just fit the theme of becoming a giant monster but i feel help make up for loosing the ability to use anything other than skill line passives a bit more cause while WW isnt in a bad place right now, its still not great especially for tank players if ya ask me.

Erickson9610 · February 5

Werewolf does get +30% Max Stamina when transformed, which is sort of like how Blood Scion gets 10k of each resource and Bone Goliath gets 30k Max Health — though maybe Werewolf's bonus should be changed to 30k Stamina just to be consistent with the other two getting 30k split between their resources somehow.

You'd only get +30k Stamina from Werewolf if you already had 100k Stamina before transforming — which nobody has.

Maybe Werewolf could get 10k Health and 20k Stamina when transforming, or if these values are too high due to Werewolf being a sustainable transformation, +10% Health and +20% Stamina.

fenn1539 · February 5

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf does get +30% Max Stamina when transformed, which is sort of like how Blood Scion gets 10k of each resource and Bone Goliath gets 30k Max Health — though maybe Werewolf's bonus should be changed to 30k Stamina just to be consistent with the other two getting 30k split between their resources somehow.

You'd only get +30k Stamina from Werewolf if you already had 100k Stamina before transforming — which nobody has.

Maybe Werewolf could get 10k Health and 20k Stamina when transforming, or if these values are too high due to Werewolf being a sustainable transformation, +10% Health and +20% Stamina.

no i dont saying you get what im talking about... im saying instead of getting stamina, they should just get 20k hp cause the tank side of werewolfs are lacking due to not having the ability to use any form of pull or ranged taunt with the berserker could keep the stamina as is and not get bonus hp but for the pack leader morph at least, it should switch that max stamina to be be a flat 15k to 20k max hp.

Erickson9610 · February 6

fenn1539 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf does get +30% Max Stamina when transformed, which is sort of like how Blood Scion gets 10k of each resource and Bone Goliath gets 30k Max Health — though maybe Werewolf's bonus should be changed to 30k Stamina just to be consistent with the other two getting 30k split between their resources somehow.

You'd only get +30k Stamina from Werewolf if you already had 100k Stamina before transforming — which nobody has.

Maybe Werewolf could get 10k Health and 20k Stamina when transforming, or if these values are too high due to Werewolf being a sustainable transformation, +10% Health and +20% Stamina.

no i dont saying you get what im talking about... im saying instead of getting stamina, they should just get 20k hp cause the tank side of werewolfs are lacking due to not having the ability to use any form of pull or ranged taunt with the berserker could keep the stamina as is and not get bonus hp but for the pack leader morph at least, it should switch that max stamina to be be a flat 15k to 20k max hp.

I'm on board with the idea of Pack Leader getting Max Health while Werewolf Transformation and Werewolf Berserker get Max Stamina.

Still, that would cause some concerns with sustain when you still only block attacks with your Stamina pool. Plus, all of Werewolf's abilities are designed to be expensive — picking Pack Leader in this case would make sustaining your Stamina abilities even more difficult.

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 6

As a werewolf tank main having more health is not always beneficial in pve as some boss attacks can scale based on max health. What I would like to see is a taunt on landing a pounce instead of a heavy attack.

Morvan · February 7

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

fenn1539 · February 7

Morvan wrote: »

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

you dont understand what i was even saying. i mean the pack leader morph (the tank morph) should have the 30% bonus stamina replaced with 15k to 20k FLAT hp. im not saying a flat 30k stamina and only figured the berserker morph of the ult be left untouched cause that one is fine

fenn1539 · February 7

JaxontheUnfortunate wrote: »

As a werewolf tank main having more health is not always beneficial in pve as some boss attacks can scale based on max health. What I would like to see is a taunt on landing a pounce instead of a heavy attack.

true but most damage shields and many tank damage sets like leeching for example scale on max hp so more max hp is actually better for tanks with it could also be that pack leader also gives you a like 10% or something reduction in your ability cost meaning you still would have far less stamina to block but you would still get to use your abilites as much as berserkers with berserkers need the max stamina to boost their damage as their abilties and sets scale on their max offensive stats but that would come with higher costing abilities to make that max stamina more fair.

Erickson9610 · February 8

Morvan wrote: »

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

Werewolf would be a dead playstyle if it couldn't be sustained. I'd much rather keep it sustainable (or better yet, make it a toggle) than have it be an objectively worse clone of Blood Scion.

That said... I don't think it would hurt if — instead of +30% Stamina for every morph — the Pack Leader morph got +10% Health and +20% Stamina. A little more Health at the cost of a little less Stamina. Frankly, I do not think there's room in the power budget for a flat amount of Health or Stamina to be added to any morph of Werewolf Transformation.

Morvan · February 8

fenn1539 wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

you dont understand what i was even saying. i mean the pack leader morph (the tank morph) should have the 30% bonus stamina replaced with 15k to 20k FLAT hp. im not saying a flat 30k stamina and only figured the berserker morph of the ult be left untouched cause that one is fine

I wasn't referencing only your comment, but my point still applies, Blood Scion and Bone Goliath shouldn't be used as a parameter for Werewolf because they just work in completely different ways, that's like asking to give Feral Guardian a Major Slayer synergy just because Storm Atro has one and they're both ultimate pets.

But for your suggestion in specific, if you're talking about PvE tanking, giving Werewolf flat amounts of HP won't do nearly anything to make them closer to a viable option, it's not a stat issue that keeps them from being viable tanks, it's their whole kit.

Tanks on ESO are not just brick walls that mitigate damage, they need group utility, buffs, debuffs... Higher HP won't do much because their kit is just extremely restrictive and lackluster, hopefully with the rework they'll add more options and more versatile morphs to give them some viability for multiple roles, but I wouldn't expect much beyond just DPS.

I think they should just make Werewolf entirely a DPS thing and create Werebear for tanking with completely different skills, it will be tough to make WW viable for both DPS and Tanking when they're restricted to just 5 skills, but I could be wrong.

Erickson9610 · February 8

Morvan wrote: »

I think they should just make Werewolf entirely a DPS thing and create Werebear for tanking with completely different skills, it will be tough to make WW viable for both DPS and Tanking when they're restricted to just 5 skills, but I could be wrong.

I don't think we're going to get other werebeast skill lines, but maybe we'll get cosmetics to make us look, sound, and animate like one. Maybe not Skill Styles specifically if something more in-depth is planned for customizing your Werewolf form.

I'd rather Werewolf continue to have tools for tanking. The ability to taunt is also important for activating sets. And, we need tanky morphs of skills to help us build for solo content and PvP. Werewolves are not just damage dealers.

If anything, I'd want to see Werewolf be capable of healing others as well. Any form of crosshealing in Werewolf's toolkit would let them be healers in PvE content and drastically help them survive in packs in PvP. There are so many sets that we can't use because we don't have a skill that can heal other players.

fenn1539 · February 8

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

Werewolf would be a dead playstyle if it couldn't be sustained. I'd much rather keep it sustainable (or better yet, make it a toggle) than have it be an objectively worse clone of Blood Scion.

That said... I don't think it would hurt if — instead of +30% Stamina for every morph — the Pack Leader morph got +10% Health and +20% Stamina. A little more Health at the cost of a little less Stamina. Frankly, I do not think there's room in the power budget for a flat amount of Health or Stamina to be added to any morph of Werewolf Transformation.

honestly i kinda like that idea cause it also leans into make it the best health build morph since its a unique 10% and it makes up for loosing shadow skills because often times personally, i tend to have 2 to 3 on my health tank build so AT MOST, im getting 15% max hp but more often since i have a few different setups for it, im only getting 10% hp and that bonus stamina is nice in a manner that in some ways is less strong for those who dont build stamina but still at least offers SOME extra stamina but for tanks or dps who build more into stamina, it becomes JUICY as hell.

fenn1539 · February 8

Morvan wrote: »

fenn1539 wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

You guys are comparing Werewolf to timed ultimates though, Werewolves shouldn't get the same benefits as you can pretty much keep the transformation forever.

Pick your poison, 30k to Max Stam would come at the cost of your transformation only lasting 20 seconds.

you dont understand what i was even saying. i mean the pack leader morph (the tank morph) should have the 30% bonus stamina replaced with 15k to 20k FLAT hp. im not saying a flat 30k stamina and only figured the berserker morph of the ult be left untouched cause that one is fine

I wasn't referencing only your comment, but my point still applies, Blood Scion and Bone Goliath shouldn't be used as a parameter for Werewolf because they just work in completely different ways, that's like asking to give Feral Guardian a Major Slayer synergy just because Storm Atro has one and they're both ultimate pets.

But for your suggestion in specific, if you're talking about PvE tanking, giving Werewolf flat amounts of HP won't do nearly anything to make them closer to a viable option, it's not a stat issue that keeps them from being viable tanks, it's their whole kit.

Tanks on ESO are not just brick walls that mitigate damage, they need group utility, buffs, debuffs... Higher HP won't do much because their kit is just extremely restrictive and lackluster, hopefully with the rework they'll add more options and more versatile morphs to give them some viability for multiple roles, but I wouldn't expect much beyond just DPS.

I think they should just make Werewolf entirely a DPS thing and create Werebear for tanking with completely different skills, it will be tough to make WW viable for both DPS and Tanking when they're restricted to just 5 skills, but I could be wrong.

you would be suprised how much hp you get on a build with even just 1500 hp let alone 10 to 20k hp when you consider 10% from minor toughness, this possible 10% from werewolf as well as 4% from daedric summoning and a further stacking with things like the alcair pie for 7k and Cp points for another 1kish and item sets for another 10k all combining to make max hp monsters around 70k WIHTOUT the minor toughness that bumps up to nearly 100k with the in combat buffs and with bone goliath, i have seen someone get to nearly 150k hp with for refrence, sure you need other things to tank effectively which is why i think pack leader being buffed in this way wouldnt hurt cause it lets you use sets like leeching or bastion or take your pick of any set that scales with max hp to achieve some greater end of boosted damage and survivability allowing for the use of sets like tormentor or rushing agony or swarm mother to incorporate as well proper tank tools to most effectively tank as werewolf without making yourself too squishy or the sets too usesless because you cant get the same max hp as if you werent in werewolf form making them worth far less.

fenn1539 · February 8

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

I think they should just make Werewolf entirely a DPS thing and create Werebear for tanking with completely different skills, it will be tough to make WW viable for both DPS and Tanking when they're restricted to just 5 skills, but I could be wrong.

I don't think we're going to get other werebeast skill lines, but maybe we'll get cosmetics to make us look, sound, and animate like one. Maybe not Skill Styles specifically if something more in-depth is planned for customizing your Werewolf form.

I'd rather Werewolf continue to have tools for tanking. The ability to taunt is also important for activating sets. And, we need tanky morphs of skills to help us build for solo content and PvP. Werewolves are not just damage dealers.

If anything, I'd want to see Werewolf be capable of healing others as well. Any form of crosshealing in Werewolf's toolkit would let them be healers in PvE content and drastically help them survive in packs in PvP. There are so many sets that we can't use because we don't have a skill that can heal other players.

if they made the long range roar a taunt or rather, give it a taunt morph than i think that would already MASSIVELY improve things cause than your heavy attacks taunt and you have a ranged taunt and if they wanted to do one last tank buff, i think they should make it so pack leader ALSO can hit in an AoE like berserker but make berserker get to add extra execute damage to ALL dots they do including their light attack bleeds.

fenn1539 · February 8

that would give pack leaders a melee conal AoE taunt in pve giving them something NO ONE else can do on top of a health boost so those who build hp can use it without losing the benefits of things like the shadow line morphs helping in allowing more creativity in the sets used to make up for other things they lack like pulls or straight damage for the pack leader version of werewolf.

fenn1539 · February 8

one last buff idea i also had was to make it so you keep the passive buffs of whatever bar your on which would make ice staff werewolf tanking with that bonus 10% max hp actually HELLA viable because you would proc a like 40 to 50k damage shield each heavy attack and that could be how you actually make it so you DONT buff pack leader with the aoe heavy attacks normally because than they have to choose to go for ice staff or two handed weapons for either aoe taunts or damage shield heavy attacks.

Silvains_Demon · 6:17AM

I'm reading through this and to be honest, I think the idea of time-based transformations should be done away with to a degree. I think instead, the time-based part should be put more towards the time of the form-based buff they get. When the buff runs out, the form stays.

Werewolf could maintain their buffs by their current mechanics to maintain the form (so new system would mean the health and stamina buffs end but the form and abilities still work). Y'all had some interesting ideas, so whatever other stuff you think could be added could be added to this system.
The Vampire Scion could get the same treatment for it's Perfect Scion morph, becoming a DPS or Healer depending on how you morph it's abilities (for example, morph Vampiric Drain one way, and it becomes a DPS based attack that gives a bit of health and ult, morph it another and it becomes more of a Healer ability by dealing less damage, heals for more, gens ult, and those within a certain range are also healed for a set amount of the heal). Could maintain the form buffs through using abilities to drain blood (causing damage with Vampiric Drain and Bloody Mist, as an example). Causing a certain amount of damage draining blood causes a sync attack that stuns/slows the target and adds a giant amount of time to the buff bar (that the WW currently has) as the player visibly does a ranged feed action.
The Necro tank ult called "Pummeling Goliath" could probably become a DPS morph of the Lich variety. Defeating enemies and siphoning death energy off of corpses (be it minions you use, enemies, or even allies) gives the Lich a buff for a time.

This is just an example though. I do think though that it is a good direction to go towards.

As well as, they could add some new sets that are tailored towards these forms (WW get sets geared towards DPS & Tank. Vampire for DPS & Healer. Lich for DPS & maybe Support DPS?).