Delves are way too Overcrowded....

Warhawke_80 · February 7

Ok...I usually don't like to do this but...Imma gonna rant for a bit so apologies.....and I'm going to tag @ZOS_Kevin to see if this is something he can bring up to the devs.....

I've been playing ESO since launch, and delves have always been my go-to for a quick, chill solo grind. You know the drill: sneak in, clear some trash, smack the boss for that sweet skyshard/lead/motif, grab the lorebooks, and bounce. Perfect for alts, dailies, or just unwinding after a vet dungeon run.
But holy Daedra, what happened in Season Zero?! Every single delve is a freaking mosh pit! I queue up my daily random delve, and bam - 8-12 players already camping the boss like it's Cyrodiil prime real estate. I try to pull some mobs for XP? Nope, some CP 2000 speed demon swoops in on their stamina DK and steals the whole pack. Boss down? Everyone tags it at once, loot table explodes (personal loot ftw, but still...), and lag spikes turn the whole thing into a slideshow.

Tried some older zones like Deshaan or Stormhaven for nostalgia farming - same story! High levels farming old motifs or whatever, blocking paths, AoE bombing everything in sight. And don't get me started on new players trying to learn - good luck getting a clean pull without getting one-shot by some overgeared players bar swap.
Why is this happening?

Daily delve rewards got buffed, so EVERYONE's piling in.
Overland difficulty tweaks in Season Zero made boss loot more tempting.
New season hype - everyone's rushing achievements and skyshard hunting on alts.
No population caps or instancing for delves. Public dungeons at least feel manageable, but delves? Nah.

This is solo content, ZOS! Not a battleground. I shouldn't need to LFG a "delve train" just to do my dailies without a circus.
Suggestions:

Add an optional instance queue for delves - solo or small group only, scaled rewards.
Population caps per delve, phase players out if too full.
Make boss loot instanced/personal only with no shared tags, or add a cooldown.
Solo delve daily variant that auto-instances you.

Come on, devs - we've begged for this since Gold Road. Performance improvements are great [citation needed], but fix the crowds first! Who's with me? Upvote if your last delve run felt like Blackwood dolmens on Jubilee weekend.

Rant over. /rant
TL;DR: Delves = player Zergs now. Instanced solo option PLS ZOS!

Orbital78 · February 7

It is what it is. If the difficulty modes were instance based, that is the only reason I would use them. It gets worse in public dungeons, but it is a balancing game with those. I have guilds that run groups through for skyshards and skill points. We run into issues where we have to limit the number of players because the odds of the group being split up is greater.

Those guild events are a boon for new players and alts though, that helps so much early game with all those extra skill points.

Warhawke_80 · February 7

Orbital78 wrote: »

It is what it is. If the difficulty modes were instance based, that is the only reason I would use them. It gets worse in public dungeons, but it is a balancing game with those. I have guilds that run groups through for skyshards and skill points. We run into issues where we have to limit the number of players because the odds of the group being split up is greater.

Those guild events are a boon for new players and alts though, that helps so much early game with all those extra skill points.

Yeah, “it is what it is” pretty much sums up the mood. Instance-based difficulty would’ve actually made the harder modes worth touching. As it stands, public dungeons just turn into a lottery of who gets scattered first. We’ve had to start hard-capping group size on skyshard runs because the split risk outweighs the reward. Sucks when even guild coordination can’t fully outplay the system.

Fingers crossed they figure out a better way eventually.....it's way past time they address this especially with the upcoming difficulty changes.

AcadianPaladin · February 7

Agree with OP. Public dungeons are okay - a chaotic free-for-all including players who may need a bit of help. Delves, however, are very frustrating due to too many players in wonderful but simple dungeons designed for soloing. What is enjoyable about players racing through pulling a train of mobs on a speed run to the boss? When you finally get to the boss (who will reliably be dead), you have to wait for a respawn and hope to get at least a light attack in before the boss dies again.

I have mentioned several times how much I would enjoy the option when you enter a delve of selecting a public instance (as they are now) or a private instance (only you and anyone who might be grouped with you).

SilverBride · February 7

Is there a specific server this is happening in?

Nemesis7884 · February 7

getting an optional instanced version for delves and public dungeons especially with the new difficulty option would be REALLY nice

SilverBride · February 7

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

Warhawke_80 · February 7

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Agree with OP. Public dungeons are okay - a chaotic free-for-all including players who may need a bit of help. Delves, however, are very frustrating due to too many players in wonderful but simple dungeons designed for soloing. What is enjoyable about players racing through pulling a train of mobs on a speed run to the boss? When you finally get to the boss (who will reliably be dead), you have to wait for a respawn and hope to get at least a light attack in before the boss dies again.

I have mentioned several times how much I would enjoy the option when you enter a delve of selecting a public instance (as they are now) or a private instance (only you and anyone who might be grouped with you).

Years ago at Quakecon I straight up asked one of the devs why they were copying EQ and making everything public...He goes: they wanted us to jump into these adventure zones and make lifelong friends

Told him that's a nice thought and all... but 98% of people are horrible and it'd just turn into a total mosh pit.

Years later... yeah, called it.

Orbital78 · February 7

PC-NA gets bad during prime time, in certain public dungeons. With leads only dropping from certain delve bosses, those can be overcrowded too. Sadly ZoS has a bad habit of leaving vanilla public dungeons some of the better AoE spots. The newer DLC's tend to be too spread out or slower repopulation, but that is partially because people choose to fight over the same spot rather than spread out. It seems like clearing one side helps respawn the other faster in some situations.

My guilds (when they actually run those events) usually pick a prime time which doesn't help, but it is when most guild mates are online. Crimson Cove has always been a popular spot, that one almost always gives us 2-3+ people put into a new instance.

Warhawke_80 · February 7

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

Okay I'm sure they can give us the option....I mean unless you don't want folks having the choice?

Emeratis · February 7

I mean, I've been guilty of this but part of the problem is I'm camping the boss for lead drops in downtime because it can be a decent idle activity. I suspect a portion of players are doing similar to me and wouldn't be there if the lead droprates were reasonable to fill out the codex or complete our multi-part lead things. It's not healthy for anyone involved.

Also agree though, it can be very annoying. It doesn't really help that on alts you need to kill the delve boss for the map complete but with accountwide achievements you no longer get the instant pity spawn your first time in there because I assume it checks off achievement and not completed status of the delve. Public dungeons have always been obnoxious though for "boss is dead/someone killed it now do I sit here and wait then maybe have to do that with the other bosses or move foward and try for the other boss and then come back and possibly miss this boss spawning" dilemma so that's not overly new, especially close to zone launch or when a new lead drops there.

SilverBride · February 7

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

Okay I'm sure they can give us the option....I mean unless you don't want folks having the choice?

I think options are good for many features, but there reaches a point where it would be more harmful than good for the game in general. I have seen countless threads proclaiming that the population is decreasing and the world is dead and players don't see any other players out in the world. We don't need to provide private instances of delves or other content to make that a reality.

Mik195 · February 7

There average delve shouldn't feel like a night club with new groups constantly coming through the door. There should be enough instances that this doesn't happen constantly.

freespirit · February 7

The problem is if I'm after a lead that drops from a delve boss, I'm going to fire off my hardest hitting skill first to try ensure actually getting loot.

I have three accounts.....

On my main that pretty much ensures loot but really disadvantages other players.

On my next highest CP account, it likely gets me loot but gives others a chance too.

On my lowest CP account, it can vary a lot.

I have no objection to being surrounded by other players but admit to being a bit selfish when it comes to getting loot!!

Not sure what the solution is tbh, like @SilverBride I like seeing other players around, it makes the game seem alive.

Funny fact..... I hate other players when I'm fishing!

Orbital78 · February 7

having a lower player cap in delves would definitely help, if there are more than 3 players in a delve that place is most likely going to be perma cleared. An option for full groups to have their own specific public dungeon instance would be a nice compromise or a way to keep the group together better. It feels bad to be the last few players that didn't teleport in fast enough.

Northwold · February 7

Agree with the OP. It's been getting worse over the years and gets especially frustrating when eg a daily endeavour or pursuit tasks players to do X that ends up with everyone flocking to the perfect delves to do X, or when a delve is associated with a lead. The result, if you're doing a quest, is often having the quest totally ruined by people killing everything in a microsecond and then camping an empty space where the boss is meant to be (if you can even figure out where the boss is meant to be). The invisible boss, if surrounded by waiting players, then appears X minutes later for approximately one second before dying. So ESO becomes an exercise in staring at nothingness and wasting your free time in the hope that you'll click the mouse fast enough. Good times.

I know they've said why this was done originally (because when the game was developed with instances no one could see anyone else), but this problem was raised even in the reviews at ESO's launch, and with the pile on of new systems that encourage people to revisit old content maybe the position on instancing needs a serious rethink.

Apollosipod · 12:05AM

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

The problem is that people who want to go into a delve and maybe enjoy the quest usually get barged through by someone running it for the tenth time for a skyshard an alt. For that situation, the option for an instance would be great. Other players, like yourself, could choose to ignore that, but as is so often the case with a game of this size everyone is going to have a different opinion. And none of them are wrong. I would love to have a harder instanced delve that took me some extra time without 5 other people butchering the area and making me hope to hit the boss once be the ore they obliterate it

SilverBride · 12:20AM

Apollosipod wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

The problem is that people who want to go into a delve and maybe enjoy the quest usually get barged through by someone running it for the tenth time for a skyshard an alt. For that situation, the option for an instance would be great. Other players, like yourself, could choose to ignore that, but as is so often the case with a game of this size everyone is going to have a different opinion. And none of them are wrong. I would love to have a harder instanced delve that took me some extra time without 5 other people butchering the area and making me hope to hit the boss once be the ore they obliterate it

Players can't just ignore it when their world becomes less populated because other players are off in their own private instances.

Warhawke_80 · 2:39AM

SilverBride wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

Okay I'm sure they can give us the option....I mean unless you don't want folks having the choice?

I think options are good for many features, but there reaches a point where it would be more harmful than good for the game in general. I have seen countless threads proclaiming that the population is decreasing and the world is dead and players don't see any other players out in the world. We don't need to provide private instances of delves or other content to make that a reality.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees...

You’re worried private instances will make the world feel even more dead. I get it—people already complain about ghost towns. But the players yelling “the world is dead” are usually the same ones getting wrecked in public delves: toxic pugs, spawn camping, endless wipes, or just waiting forever.

Private instances don’t remove those people from the game—they keep them playing longer. Coordinated groups (friends, guilds, LFG) can run their own delves without tanking the public experience, and they’re still out in the world doing world content, farming, PvP, trading, recruiting, everything else.

Forcing everyone into public-only mode isn’t saving population—it’s accelerating burnout. Bad public runs drive casuals away way faster than private options ever could. WoW and Destiny 2 added private/group options for dungeons and raids years ago and their social hubs are still alive. Population drops when people quit from frustration, not because they had a choice.

Just add the toggle: public for the social chaos crowd, private for anyone who wants a chill, stress-free run. Most people will still do public anyway for the leaderboards, achievements, and human contact. But the ones who need private to keep enjoying the game? They’ll stay logged in—and that helps everyone.

Choice isn’t the problem. Burnout is.
Private options are a safety valve, not a death sentence.

spartaxoxo · 2:46AM

Delves don't have leaderboards. They could probably be privatized though. They're already designed to be done by one person anyway.

SilverBride · 2:59AM

It's either threads that there are too many players or threads that the world is dead. There is no winning solution here.

freespirit · 3:05AM

I really don't think Delves should be instanced!

They are the lowest of the low as far as content difficulty is concerned but literally two night's ago a random player asked me for help in one......

I was fishing he was a new player and struggling with the boss.

I like to play solo but if I can help anyone I will!!

Lucasl402 · 3:52AM

...don't like seeing other people in game...don't like PvP.....

You sure you shouldn't be playing single player games instead of MMO's?

spartaxoxo · 5:55AM

Lucasl402 wrote: »

...don't like seeing other people in game...don't like PvP.....

You sure you shouldn't be playing single player games instead of MMO's?

I actually agree that shared spaces is a pretty important part of the MMO experience. I am pretty against completely separate instances of the entire overworld because I think that would kill the game. New players would just assume the game is dead when they never saw anyone or got help and quit. And no matter how good a game is, vet players will eventually get burnt out and leave as that's the natural life cycle of a game. Most people don't play the same game for 10 years. Those of us here since the beginning are a minority that gets smaller every year, as is normal.

But delves are already instanced content anyway. And they're already balanced for a single person to do regardless of level. The experience isn't really enhanced by other people being around in the same way as like the world bosses. They could probably be made private without issue.

The could maybe give a solo or group option for the public dungeons and then just make it so the group event boss doesn't spawn in a PD. But the last couple of years they've made an obvious effort to make public dungeons more group oriented so IDK. I wouldn't mind either way on those.

Making delves private might be a nice compromise between complete separation and everything being mixed together.

SeaGtGruff · 6:39AM

You keep bringing up Season Zero and blaming this situation on changes made in Season Zero. Are you talking about PTS? Because I was under the impression that Season Zero hasn't drop yet on Live.

Gabriel_H · 9:27AM

Emeratis wrote: »

I mean, I've been guilty of this but part of the problem is I'm camping the boss for lead drops in downtime because it can be a decent idle activity. I suspect a portion of players are doing similar to me and wouldn't be there if the lead droprates were reasonable to fill out the codex or complete our multi-part lead things. It's not healthy for anyone involved.

Some of the more popular mythics have a near constant group of campers. I myself once camped a delve boss for 20+ kills (about an hour and a half). Would have been 30+ kills, but I keep an eye on the time to know if it's a lootable spawn, or spawning because someone else entered.

Emeratis wrote: »

Also agree though, it can be very annoying. It doesn't really help that on alts you need to kill the delve boss for the map complete but with accountwide achievements you no longer get the instant pity spawn your first time in there because I assume it checks off achievement and not completed status of the delve. Public dungeons have always been obnoxious though for "boss is dead/someone killed it now do I sit here and wait then maybe have to do that with the other bosses or move foward and try for the other boss and then come back and possibly miss this boss spawning" dilemma so that's not overly new, especially close to zone launch or when a new lead drops there.

Ignore the temptation to run forward. If the boss has just been killed the next one will die just before you get there too. Sit, wait 5 minutes. Move on. (Or do what I do, and clear PD's solo at 3am lol).

Gabriel_H · 9:28AM

Season Zero isn't Live yet. If you are talking about the PTS and Night Market, they are supposed to be group activities.

Apollosipod · 11:10AM

SilverBride wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't want instanced delves, or public dungeons etc.. I enjoy seeing other players when I'm running these.

The problem is that people who want to go into a delve and maybe enjoy the quest usually get barged through by someone running it for the tenth time for a skyshard an alt. For that situation, the option for an instance would be great. Other players, like yourself, could choose to ignore that, but as is so often the case with a game of this size everyone is going to have a different opinion. And none of them are wrong. I would love to have a harder instanced delve that took me some extra time without 5 other people butchering the area and making me hope to hit the boss once be the ore they obliterate it

Players can't just ignore it when their world becomes less populated because other players are off in their own private instances.

And those who want a challenge and to enjoy a delve shouldn't have to sit and wait so the players don't feel lonely. Del es are designed for one person to clear. With a challenge increase they could actually be more fun than a chore. I'd love this option. I don't really care if my not being present for someone else's enjoyment harms their experience. I'm not there for them.

SilverBride · 12:20PM

Apollosipod wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players can't just ignore it when their world becomes less populated because other players are off in their own private instances.

And those who want a challenge and to enjoy a delve shouldn't have to sit and wait so the players don't feel lonely. Del es are designed for one person to clear. With a challenge increase they could actually be more fun than a chore. I'd love this option. I don't really care if my not being present for someone else's enjoyment harms their experience. I'm not there for them.

Where does it say that delves were designed for one person to clear? If that were the case they would already be private instances.

Delves are an open part of overland, just like dolmens and public dungeons. These can all be cleared by one player but are open content that can be enjoyed by players working together as well.

We are all here for our own enjoyment but that can't come at the expense of the health of the game.

Renato90085 · 1:08PM

pass last 3 year server very lag,I don't think ESO's server can do instanced delves very well...

Apollosipod · 1:20PM

SilverBride wrote: »

Apollosipod wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Players can't just ignore it when their world becomes less populated because other players are off in their own private instances.

And those who want a challenge and to enjoy a delve shouldn't have to sit and wait so the players don't feel lonely. Del es are designed for one person to clear. With a challenge increase they could actually be more fun than a chore. I'd love this option. I don't really care if my not being present for someone else's enjoyment harms their experience. I'm not there for them.

Where does it say that delves were designed for one person to clear? If that were the case they would already be private instances.

Delves are an open part of overland, just like dolmens and public dungeons. These can all be cleared by one player but are open content that can be enjoyed by players working together as well.

We are all here for our own enjoyment but that can't come at the expense of the health of the game.

And one person's opinion of what the health of the game is isn't going to be right for everyone. Your original statement was based entirely on your own personal preference. Just because it's yours doesn't mean it's everyone else's. Just like my own preference wouldn't work for everyone either. The health of the game benefits from giving people options. I've had multiple friends try and leave the game because more veteran players just steamrolled everything they wanted to try. I don't really care if your preference is to see other players wandering around. Fine, keep it! By all means!

But giving players the option to actually engage with the world in an interesting way rather than having to watch other people kill everything in front them and make them stand around to kill a delve boss is a net gain for game health because those players might then stick around. No one wants to log in and play a game so they can watch more experienced players do it all in front of them before they can experience it themselves. More options are better.