... I found a way to exploit it.
spartaxoxo wrote: »
Most of the chapter stories bosses are solo instanced, including several of the side quest ones. A lot of times it will be talk to npc and kill some small fry in over world to get some item, go to solo instance to kill boss. Many stories are like that.... I found a way to exploit it.
People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
This is already an issue, some want to solo an world boss, a friendly khajiit see the fight and want to help.SilverBride wrote: »I don't see how that will be any different than it is now where we have players of all different levels and skills fighting the same World Boss etc..
Currently:
A level 10 rocks up to a WB who is a 160CP mob. The game, in the background scales the level 10 up to 160CP.
A big bad 1,800CP rocks up and makes the fight a whole lot easier because they are overpowered compared to the mob.
The level 10 is grateful for the easy kill.
Under challenge mode:
A level 1,800CP rocks up to a world boss, with the player set to extra-super duper hard mode. They are taking a lot more damage, and doing a lot less. They are happy about it, they want this. They set the difficulty slider.
A second 1,800CP rocks up and makes the fight a whole lot easier because they are overpowered compared to the mob.
The first 1,800CP is super mad. They just had their gaming experience ruined.
The difference is intent and outcome.
It's not about the differential between 160CP and 1,800CP. It's between a 1,800CP with a proper build and a level 35 who used to play Skyrim say, with attrib points stread out in all 3, random (probably non set) gear they've picked up and skills that just sound cool. For them, that's how it is at present
spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
tomofhyrule wrote: »Which, as I said, is exactly what happens now. A low-skill player who has 15% of the DPS of a vet player is struggling for 20 minutes, before some DPS monster wipes the rest in a matter of seconds.
Is that just as infuriating? Or is that acceptable since the high skill player is the one who’s looking like a god instead of getting shown up?
And again, no single person has a monopoly on public enemies. If you want to solo a boss to show you can, there are instanced content (i.e. the story bosses, Archive, arenas, dungeons) that one can enter solo and show their stuff.
Sorry, but the differential is nowhere near that high at present. The power differential between 160CP and 1,800CP is only around 20% - 30% at most.
In addition, that's simply the nature of an MMO - but ZOS are changing that by adding increased difficulty and marketing it as a challenge and sense of accomplishment. That isn't how it is at present.
ZOS are creating the problem.
ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
Most of the chapter stories bosses are solo instanced, including several of the side quest ones. A lot of times it will be talk to npc and kill some small fry in over world to get some item, go to solo instance to kill boss. Many stories are like that.... I found a way to exploit it.
People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
It's not an exploit when the rewards are the same, when players are not trying to get higher level rewards through shared instances. Please note that I'm not talking about extra XP or gold which are the currently proposed rewards for higher difficulty. They said that they are planning to expand, and when/if they decide to add special rewards such as mounts/skins/gold gear (I've seen all of that being requested here on the forums) then mixing players will become exploitable.
Another note: I would be fine with better/special rewards if the players were split by difficulty like in the current Normal/Vet dungeon/trial system.
spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
spartaxoxo wrote: »ESO_player123 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
Most of the chapter stories bosses are solo instanced, including several of the side quest ones. A lot of times it will be talk to npc and kill some small fry in over world to get some item, go to solo instance to kill boss. Many stories are like that.... I found a way to exploit it.
People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
It's not an exploit when the rewards are the same, when players are not trying to get higher level rewards through shared instances. Please note that I'm not talking about extra XP or gold which are the currently proposed rewards for higher difficulty. They said that they are planning to expand, and when/if they decide to add special rewards such as mounts/skins/gold gear (I've seen all of that being requested here on the forums) then mixing players will become exploitable.
Another note: I would be fine with better/special rewards if the players were split by difficulty like in the current Normal/Vet dungeon/trial system.
Exploiting is about using things in a way that's not intended. The devs specifically went with this design so people could play together and they picked the rewards with the idea in mind that doing so wouldn't be exploiting. They literally stated they were limiting the rewards for that reason.
Edit: removed redundant text
flyingparchment wrote: »i understand there are some people who think delves, public dungeons, etc. are devoid of players. this is not actually true, at least on PC-EU. it's very rare, outside of super off-peak times, that i'm in a delve or PD and there isn't at least one other player there, and usually more.
so how can i possibly enjoy "challenge difficulty" on a harder difficulty, when there's almost always some other player around who's going to kill my public dungeon bosses in 3 seconds? where is the challenge? where is the difficulty?
it's extremely obvious that this system will be a failure, not because "no one wants difficult content" (as some toxic casuals claim) but rather because you can't have difficult content if someone else in that content turns the self-nerf slider to "easy mode". challenge difficulty feels like something designed for a single player game, but ESO is not a single player game, it's an MMORPG.
someone please convince me that i'm wrong here, because i don't see how this can possibly work.
spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
tomofhyrule wrote: »tomofhyrule wrote: »Out of curiosity, even if the difficulty levels were instanced, wouldn’t someone on your same difficulty level coming to fight the boss with you make it that much easier just due to having more people? Is that just as bad, or is it ok since they’re not on low difficulty?
(aka, is the problem that you want to solo it, or you just don’t want noobs around)
What if it was only 1 high-end player, doing only 20% of normal damage, we'll call it 15% with the extra movement. They've just spent 20 minutes getting the boss down to 50%. Another high-end player comes in, on normal difficulty and takes the boss from 50% to 0% in less than 2 minutes.
Which, as I said, is exactly what happens now. A low-skill player who has 15% of the DPS of a vet player is struggling for 20 minutes, before some DPS monster wipes the rest in a matter of seconds.
Is that just as infuriating? Or is that acceptable since the high skill player is the one who’s looking like a god instead of getting shown up?
And again, no single person has a monopoly on public enemies. If you want to solo a boss to show you can, there are instanced content (i.e. the story bosses, Archive, arenas, dungeons) that one can enter solo and show their stuff.
BananaBender wrote: »What I don't understand is why we need to repeat the same, already proven to be bad design? It is an issue now, why does it have to be an issue in the future as well when it could just be solved by having difficulty based instances.
tomofhyrule wrote: »tomofhyrule wrote: »Which, as I said, is exactly what happens now. A low-skill player who has 15% of the DPS of a vet player is struggling for 20 minutes, before some DPS monster wipes the rest in a matter of seconds.
Is that just as infuriating? Or is that acceptable since the high skill player is the one who’s looking like a god instead of getting shown up?
And again, no single person has a monopoly on public enemies. If you want to solo a boss to show you can, there are instanced content (i.e. the story bosses, Archive, arenas, dungeons) that one can enter solo and show their stuff.
Sorry, but the differential is nowhere near that high at present. The power differential between 160CP and 1,800CP is only around 20% - 30% at most.
In addition, that's simply the nature of an MMO - but ZOS are changing that by adding increased difficulty and marketing it as a challenge and sense of accomplishment. That isn't how it is at present.
ZOS are creating the problem.
Ok, fine: here's an example.
I'm CP 2800-something. In my overland build (I have a specific "for-fun" build I use in overland since it does more DPS than my dungeon and trial setups), I think I'm pulling about 10k DPS.
No, that is not a typo. 10k. Less than 10% of what most sweaty people have.
How can I manage to be "so bad" at the game? Well, for one, I'm a tank. My favored playstyle is a full-on stone wall. All 64 points in health, thematically appropriate sets (Ironblood and Perfect Yol), and I'm still mostly tanking while my Companion handles the DPS since he outparses me in the first place. Because that's the way I like to play.
You know what's not fun for me to play? Some Arcbladeknight monstrosity who beams everything down with perfectly-metagamed sets that make no sense being on my carefully-backstoried character.
So don't you worry, because if you're fighting a WB and I walk by, you'll probably still outparse me even if I'm on standard mode. Because not everyone who plays this game is trying to be a 130k DPS god.
And again, if you want to bring up the "nature of an MMO," let's start with one simple fact: The nature of an MMO is that multiple people are around to jump into a fight at any one time, not that someone can claim a public boss for their own to solo and whine when others join in.
Erickson9610 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
It's really not much of an exploit if the rewards are just part of a Golden Pursuit with one of the tasks asking you to defeat enemies in a higher challenge difficulty. Sure, you'd clear content easier with other players, but you also could've done any of the other Golden Pursuit challenges to get that reward instead.
Challenge Difficulty will probably not directly give you better rewards on its own, due to the challenges pointed out in threads like these.
SilverBride wrote: »I don't understand what is so bad about players of different difficulties interacting with other players in the open world. That is how it is in an MMO. Players of different levels and skills and difficulties are going to run into others and sometimes fight the same enemies. That is no different than it is now.
They are giving us difficulty choices which is what was asked for. That doesn't require that we be separated, which would restrict who we could play with, and would be as bad as it was at launch when we could only play with others of our same faction.
SilverBride wrote: »I don't understand what is so bad about players of different difficulties interacting with other players in the open world. That is how it is in an MMO. Players of different levels and skills and difficulties are going to run into others and sometimes fight the same enemies. That is no different than it is now.
They are giving us difficulty choices which is what was asked for. That doesn't require that we be separated, which would restrict who we could play with, and would be as bad as it was at launch when we could only play with others of our same faction.
Again: Intent and outcome.
ZOS are specifically introducing a system whose intent is to provide a challenge and sense of accomplishment. That is not the same thing as a 3600CP running in to kill a WB a level 10 is fighting.
Erickson9610 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »People on different difficulty levels sharing content in overland is not an exploit. It is the express purpose of the system.
Yes, it is. If the reward is locked behind completing something on Vestige difficulty, and you have a group of 4 players - 3 on Vestige and 1 on normal - you are clearing the content easily becasue that 1 player on normal is completely overpowered compared to the mobs. That's an exploit. That's the point.
It's really not much of an exploit if the rewards are just part of a Golden Pursuit with one of the tasks asking you to defeat enemies in a higher challenge difficulty. Sure, you'd clear content easier with other players, but you also could've done any of the other Golden Pursuit challenges to get that reward instead.
Challenge Difficulty will probably not directly give you better rewards on its own, due to the challenges pointed out in threads like these.
"That said, we are building Challenge Difficulty to be expandable in the future and layer with other existing systems to help reward players for taking on the challenge." - ZOS, 22nd January 2026.
SilverBride wrote: »I don't see how that will be any different than it is now where we have players of all different levels and skills fighting the same World Boss etc..
Currently:
A level 10 rocks up to a WB who is a 160CP mob. The game, in the background scales the level 10 up to 160CP.
A big bad 1,800CP rocks up and makes the fight a whole lot easier because they are overpowered compared to the mob.
The level 10 is grateful for the easy kill.
Under challenge mode:
A level 1,800CP rocks up to a world boss, with the player set to extra-super duper hard mode. They are taking a lot more damage, and doing a lot less. They are happy about it, they want this. They set the difficulty slider.
A second 1,800CP rocks up and makes the fight a whole lot easier because they are overpowered compared to the mob.
The first 1,800CP is super mad. They just had their gaming experience ruined.
The difference is intent and outcome.
wolfie1.0. wrote: »Lets say 2 cp 1800 characters roll up and are in a group. One is in super hard mode and the other is just normal. Normal.dude kills the mobs, hard mode character gets highly boosted exp and more gold....