Elder Scrolls Online Vs. The Elder Scrolls

zaria · February 5

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ESO is an MMO. It needs to play like an MMO.

I'm sorry but that's a non-argument that says absolutely nothing about what that is or should play like except an online game with many players.

So do you think all TES series games must play the same then? Like would you consider Legends insufficient because it doesn’t allow you to cast any spell like you could in Skyrim? Is Redguard not a real TES game since the character is dictated to you and you can’t change him unlike Oblivion’s character creator? Is Castles unworthy because there are no dungeons to explore when Morrowind was full of various ruins?

The point is that the unrestricted freedom granted in a solo RPG must necessarily have restrictions in an MMORPG setting because if others are around, balance must be a factor. This means things like: “No, you can’t learn every spell in the game all at the same time.” “No, you can’t just get all the buffs and none of the weaknesses.” “No, you can’t mod the game to add or remove whatever you want.” These are all concessions that must be made to have an MMO. As an MMO, it is not only one person’s world. It is for all of us, and therefore we all have to compromise on it.

We have already seen the consequences of ignoring balance to add more freedom and - as much as some people want to pretend otherwise - the game and its community are not at all in a healthier state after 2025.

Oh, and as an MMO, there’s one other major factor that will set ESO apart from solo RPGs like Skyrim: they run on a Live-service concept. Which means that if the population runs too low for any reason (i.e. choices in the game drive people away, or another too-similar game competes with the playerbase), then Microsoft will shut it down. Permanently. And ESO, and all the money we spent on it, will be gone forever.
I can still play Skyrim 15 years later. I can find a way to boot Morrowind back up after 24 years. But once ESO dies, it’s gone.

Its obvious, an multiplayer game can not give you the power like an single player game.
Nor the mods you can make, like an mingun shooting mini nukes, with an fuse who does not set them off too close.

Or my old farming mod in Skyrim, use an farming hoe to plant everywhere.
And the games was difrent, Skyrim was the stealth archer game, Oblivion the mages game. Same with Morrowind.
But both Daggerfall and Morrowind got trivial past level 20 with an decent build 30 with most build i think.
Oblivion had an bad level scaling who was fixed in FO3 and Skyrim.
All of ESO outside group content is level scaled now but overland is trivial.

Tandor · February 5

I've played ESO since launch, and throughout that time have also played Skyrim from time to time as well as, more recently, Oblivion Remastered.

There's nothing in the single-player games or the online game that I'd like to have added to the other format. I play them all because they're different, just as I play other single-player and online games because they're different to the TESO ones.

I hate the notion that just because one game has a particular feature every other game should have it too. I recognise it's a bit different when the games are from the same IP but the principle of them retaining their differences remains a good one in my view.

zaria · February 5

Tandor wrote: »

I've played ESO since launch, and throughout that time have also played Skyrim from time to time as well as, more recently, Oblivion Remastered.

There's nothing in the single-player games or the online game that I'd like to have added to the other format. I play them all because they're different, just as I play other single-player and online games because they're different to the TESO ones.

I hate the notion that just because one game has a particular feature every other game should have it too. I recognise it's a bit different when the games are from the same IP but the principle of them retaining their differences remains a good one in my view.

I would want the press 1 to cast a spell rather than 1 and cast.
This makes sense for guns but not for spells as changing weapons should take time in an single player game but casting an spell is cast time
But Skyrim was not an mages game because no spell crafting, yes it was useful but not as an weapon.

JemadarofCaerSalis · February 5

Tandor wrote: »

I've played ESO since launch, and throughout that time have also played Skyrim from time to time as well as, more recently, Oblivion Remastered.

There's nothing in the single-player games or the online game that I'd like to have added to the other format. I play them all because they're different, just as I play other single-player and online games because they're different to the TESO ones.

I hate the notion that just because one game has a particular feature every other game should have it too. I recognise it's a bit different when the games are from the same IP but the principle of them retaining their differences remains a good one in my view.

I hate the assumption that just because one game does something, now all other games have to do it, but I think this is more of a 'well, I really like this feature in This game, so I really would love to have it in that game!' rather than expecting them all to be clones of each other.

Sometimes there are just features I like and I do want to see them in other games. If the other games don't have them, oh well, but sometimes it is nice to dream.

Ratzkifal · February 5

I played Skyrim and ESO in parallel for a while but eventually I ran out of things to do in Skyrim, since I'm not big on mods.
What ESO should learn from the older TES games is that this franchise is the best when we embrace the more weird concepts about it. When Todd says he wants there to be a normality about the world so that the magic still feels special, I would agree, but would also add that it's a horrible guiding principle that gets in the way of true greatness if you make it your mantra. Morrowind is beloved because of how alien it is.
People hated ESO's version of Summerset just being Disney castle architecture, as pretty as it may be, when we could have had insect-wing glass architecture instead.
People were praising Elsweyr for not shying away from having all these different furstock and adding more weird lore. Same with Markarth. Your average town quest can and should be mundane, but it should also lead you to make fantastic discoveries. If you only embrace the mundane and tone down every weird concept, you are actively harming what makes the world so great.

And on that note, the morality of the writing in ESO has been quite weird. I'm not against a story having morals or a message per se. But this is also a game in a tradition of RPGs - RPGs where you can choose to play a chaotic evil murder hobo.
In one quest ESO lets us trap the soul of a child in a flesh atronach, which makes the moral lines this game draws seem completely arbitrary. Why is this okay, but the Dark Brotherhood had to be written to be like anti-heroes taking down the corrupt Order of the Hour? Choosing to be a Dark Brotherhood member means choosing to play evil, so let us actually be evil!
Maybe my character wants to join House Dres in restoring order to their farming business? I appreciate that with Markarth we got to discover a new side to the Reachmen, when they are in charge and not just an enemy type, but at the same time I mourn the lost opportunity for us to join a cult of Daedra worshipping savages in a hostile and alien land that would never sign a peace agreement with the Nords who invaded their land.
The single player games let us to do that. I'm not asking for the morally good routes to be deleted or anything, but I think it gets boring if all our characters always try to be a moral example to everyone. We are already trying to be good people in real life every day. At least give us the option to be mustache twirling villains in a video game, that also makes it more meaningful when you still choose to do the right thing.

robertlabrie · February 5

I started playing ESO because I missed Morrowind but TES3 is a bit too old.

Supreme_Atromancer · February 6

I still do a playthrough of the main games from time to time. I've played them all. Each one has its own tone that has swayed me.

I think internet people need to open their minds a bit more. I think there probs need to be *some* caveats for MMO, but I'm happy whenever ZOS get inspired by TES things; aesthetics, worldbuilding, geography, lore, and especially gameplay.

SeaGtGruff · February 7

I still play Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion in addition to ESO. I haven't played Skyrim in a long time, but will return to it someday. I've played Battlespire, Redguard, Blades, Legends, and Castles a little bit, but didn't stick with them.

As far as Arena and Daggerfall, I like the way they use dungeon modules that fit together in numerous combinations to create a variety of dungeons. Daggerfall has more modules than Arena, and there is greater diversity in how they can fit together, but I actually think that most of Arena's modules feel more "dungeony," whereas many of Daggerfall's modules are primarily a lot of long, twisty-turny passages with only a few small rooms thrown in here and there. But the overall concept of creating many dungeons out of "pre-fabricated modules" seems like something ESO might be able to adapt for generating random dungeons on the fly. When the Infinite Archive was first announced, I had hoped it might be something along these lines. It seems like it could be interesting if done right.

SeaGtGruff · February 7

zaria wrote: »

And the games was difrent, Skyrim was the stealth archer game, Oblivion the mages game.

This is amusing to me, because on the one hand I do tend to play each of the main-series games a bit differently than each other, but on the other hand I've never played a stealth archer in Skyrim, nor a mage in Oblivion. In fact, I've never played a stealth archer in any game, Elder Scrolls or otherwise, so I thought it was funny when I saw a comedy video a few years ago which mentioned playing Skyrim again with the intention of creating a different type of character than before but ending up creating the same stealth archer build as in every other Skyrim playthrough-- and then I saw streamers playing stealth archer characters in Skyrim.

My own "character build rut" is probably that I prefer to play melee fighters, relying on weapons rather than magic for attack and defense. I'm not sure why that is, because IRL I'm bookish, weak, and out of shape, with no desire to own firearms or any bladed weapons. If I were living in a world like the Elder Scrolls or Dungeons & Dragons, I'd probably be a mage or other type of magic user (cleric, druid, etc.). So I guess that playing a physically-strong brawler who is experienced and skillful at using traditional melee weapons is sort of a way for me to live out a fantasy where I'm different than IRL.

As far as how I play each game differently within my particular "character build rut," I think Arena was the first ES game where I actually use potions. In Oblivion (which was my first ES game), I craft potions all the time, at least during the early stages of a playthrough, but I sell them rather than use them. I don't use potions in Morrowind (my second ES game), either, or in Skyrim (my third ES game). Arena (my fourth ES game) is the first game where I couldn't use Alchemy to craft potions of my own, but some of the potions which can be purchased from the Mages Guild are much too useful to ignore, especially when playing a character who isn't a natural spellcaster and who must drink potions or use magic items if there's a need to fall back on some magic spell or other. My characters might not use magic for attacking (except in certain situations), but they definitely use magic for healing and passive defense (such as shields).

Arena was also the first ES game where I discovered the usefulness of creating my own spells, something I'd never bothered to do in Oblivion, Morrowind, or Skyrim in my pre-Arena playthroughs. I definitely do so now, though.

Skyrim was the first ES game where I enchanted my own gear, rather than just using looted gear which already has some kind of enchantment on it. I never even learned how to enchant gear in Oblivion or Morrowind, and still don't bother with it in those games, but I make my own magic items in Daggerfall-- or rather, pay the blacksmith at the Mages Guild to enchant gear with spell effects of my choosing.

So it's funny to me how I tend to approach each of the main games the same way as far as type of character (regardless of what class I may have rolled), yet I also approach them differently as far as which of the specific "core ES features" I use in them, and for what purposes.

JemadarofCaerSalis · February 7

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

And the games was difrent, Skyrim was the stealth archer game, Oblivion the mages game.

This is amusing to me, because on the one hand I do tend to play each of the main-series games a bit differently than each other, but on the other hand I've never played a stealth archer in Skyrim, nor a mage in Oblivion. In fact, I've never played a stealth archer in any game, Elder Scrolls or otherwise, so I thought it was funny when I saw a comedy video a few years ago which mentioned playing Skyrim again with the intention of creating a different type of character than before but ending up creating the same stealth archer build as in every other Skyrim playthrough-- and then I saw streamers playing stealth archer characters in Skyrim.

My own "character build rut" is probably that I prefer to play melee fighters, relying on weapons rather than magic for attack and defense. I'm not sure why that is, because IRL I'm bookish, weak, and out of shape, with no desire to own firearms or any bladed weapons. If I were living in a world like the Elder Scrolls or Dungeons & Dragons, I'd probably be a mage or other type of magic user (cleric, druid, etc.). So I guess that playing a physically-strong brawler who is experienced and skillful at using traditional melee weapons is sort of a way for me to live out a fantasy where I'm different than IRL.

As far as how I play each game differently within my particular "character build rut," I think Arena was the first ES game where I actually use potions. In Oblivion (which was my first ES game), I craft potions all the time, at least during the early stages of a playthrough, but I sell them rather than use them. I don't use potions in Morrowind (my second ES game), either, or in Skyrim (my third ES game). Arena (my fourth ES game) is the first game where I couldn't use Alchemy to craft potions of my own, but some of the potions which can be purchased from the Mages Guild are much too useful to ignore, especially when playing a character who isn't a natural spellcaster and who must drink potions or use magic items if there's a need to fall back on some magic spell or other. My characters might not use magic for attacking (except in certain situations), but they definitely use magic for healing and passive defense (such as shields).

Arena was also the first ES game where I discovered the usefulness of creating my own spells, something I'd never bothered to do in Oblivion, Morrowind, or Skyrim in my pre-Arena playthroughs. I definitely do so now, though.

Skyrim was the first ES game where I enchanted my own gear, rather than just using looted gear which already has some kind of enchantment on it. I never even learned how to enchant gear in Oblivion or Morrowind, and still don't bother with it in those games, but I make my own magic items in Daggerfall-- or rather, pay the blacksmith at the Mages Guild to enchant gear with spell effects of my choosing.

So it's funny to me how I tend to approach each of the main games the same way as far as type of character (regardless of what class I may have rolled), yet I also approach them differently as far as which of the specific "core ES features" I use in them, and for what purposes.

It was always amusing to me as well, because I never played a stealth archer either.

I will admit that I did play a mage in Oblivion, but, well... I basically play mages in any game that has them. If they don't, I tend to play archers (but not stealth. Stealth is evil. Stealth hates me. The feeling is mutual.) because I don't want to get up close and personal with the enemies. I wanna pick them off from a distance.

AvalonRanger · February 7

Elder Scrolls Online doesn't have mod, so I can't remodel
extremely terrible appearance ESO horse model.

But ESO character model is better than Bethesda game studio.

katanagirl1 · February 7

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

And the games was difrent, Skyrim was the stealth archer game, Oblivion the mages game.

This is amusing to me, because on the one hand I do tend to play each of the main-series games a bit differently than each other, but on the other hand I've never played a stealth archer in Skyrim, nor a mage in Oblivion. In fact, I've never played a stealth archer in any game, Elder Scrolls or otherwise, so I thought it was funny when I saw a comedy video a few years ago which mentioned playing Skyrim again with the intention of creating a different type of character than before but ending up creating the same stealth archer build as in every other Skyrim playthrough-- and then I saw streamers playing stealth archer characters in Skyrim.

My own "character build rut" is probably that I prefer to play melee fighters, relying on weapons rather than magic for attack and defense. I'm not sure why that is, because IRL I'm bookish, weak, and out of shape, with no desire to own firearms or any bladed weapons. If I were living in a world like the Elder Scrolls or Dungeons & Dragons, I'd probably be a mage or other type of magic user (cleric, druid, etc.). So I guess that playing a physically-strong brawler who is experienced and skillful at using traditional melee weapons is sort of a way for me to live out a fantasy where I'm different than IRL.

As far as how I play each game differently within my particular "character build rut," I think Arena was the first ES game where I actually use potions. In Oblivion (which was my first ES game), I craft potions all the time, at least during the early stages of a playthrough, but I sell them rather than use them. I don't use potions in Morrowind (my second ES game), either, or in Skyrim (my third ES game). Arena (my fourth ES game) is the first game where I couldn't use Alchemy to craft potions of my own, but some of the potions which can be purchased from the Mages Guild are much too useful to ignore, especially when playing a character who isn't a natural spellcaster and who must drink potions or use magic items if there's a need to fall back on some magic spell or other. My characters might not use magic for attacking (except in certain situations), but they definitely use magic for healing and passive defense (such as shields).

Arena was also the first ES game where I discovered the usefulness of creating my own spells, something I'd never bothered to do in Oblivion, Morrowind, or Skyrim in my pre-Arena playthroughs. I definitely do so now, though.

Skyrim was the first ES game where I enchanted my own gear, rather than just using looted gear which already has some kind of enchantment on it. I never even learned how to enchant gear in Oblivion or Morrowind, and still don't bother with it in those games, but I make my own magic items in Daggerfall-- or rather, pay the blacksmith at the Mages Guild to enchant gear with spell effects of my choosing.

So it's funny to me how I tend to approach each of the main games the same way as far as type of character (regardless of what class I may have rolled), yet I also approach them differently as far as which of the specific "core ES features" I use in them, and for what purposes.

I played through original Oblivion as a stealth archer, and did the same for Skyrim. I like melee characters and ranged attacks. I told myself I would do something different for Oblivion Remastered…but of course I could not resist. The thrill of killing enemies without them even knowing you are there is so rewarding. I did try to do the Mages Guild quests with a staff, and as soon as it was depleted in the first battle and I found out what I had to do to recharge it, I said forget it.

This second time in Oblivion I have also created custom spells and enchants, something I did not do originally because I did not know you could. They are both quite useful. I have also done the FG quests and the Arena quests, I had no idea they were there the first time. Same for TG and DB, I will do them eventually. If you just pick up the game and start playing without looking things up, you miss a lot.

robwolf666 · February 7

I played Oblivion and Skyrim long before ESO was even a twinkle in ZOS's eyes.

Would I like to see aspects of those game brought into ESO? Yes, a single player mode via a private server/instance. Fold it into ESO+ if you have to ZOS so it's not "forced" on everyone.

Muizer · February 7

My last Oblivion remastered character was a brawler kind of character. Long sword and shield, heavy armour. Needs mitigation of elemental damage. Also it's important to fully level block to unlock shield bash asap. That's a very powerful ability that allows you to go toe to toe with multiple opponents at the same time.

BardokRedSnow · February 7

edit: didnt realize I already commented here lol

liliub17_ESO · February 7

Two completely different animals, ESO and Elder Scrolls.

I actually semi-quit ESO recently - haven't logged this month yet on either account - and had already returned to Oblivion (old school) and Skyrim. Sure, they're more restricted in many ways, but as others have mentioned, I don't have to worry about flashy completely out-of-context mounts and recall animations, skill and armor changes, etc. I can roll with any bugs -or- find and download a competently done 'fix' (mod).

AzuraFan · February 7

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

As far as Arena and Daggerfall, I like the way they use dungeon modules that fit together in numerous combinations to create a variety of dungeons. Daggerfall has more modules than Arena, and there is greater diversity in how they can fit together, but I actually think that most of Arena's modules feel more "dungeony," whereas many of Daggerfall's modules are primarily a lot of long, twisty-turny passages with only a few small rooms thrown in here and there. But the overall concept of creating many dungeons out of "pre-fabricated modules" seems like something ESO might be able to adapt for generating random dungeons on the fly. When the Infinite Archive was first announced, I had hoped it might be something along these lines. It seems like it could be interesting if done right.

I liked the variety, but yeah, sometimes Daggerfall's dungeons were ludicrously unrealistic, with twisting passages above and below each other, or just configurations that didn't make sense. But for the time, it was really ambitious.

I remember spending at least an hour trying to navigate my way through a convoluted dungeon in Daggerfall, looking for a book for a quest. When I found the book, it was in a puddle, and my swimming attribute wasn't high enough to fish it out. Literally a puddle! I wasn't impressed lol.

Lucasl402 · February 8

There is huge differences between ESO and Elder Scrolls games.

ESO is produced by ZOS.
Elder Scrolls games are produced by Bethesda.

They aren't even created by the same company. That's why expecting ESO to be like Elder Scrolls creates conflict within the community.

SeaGtGruff · February 8

robwolf666 wrote: »

I played Oblivion and Skyrim long before ESO was even a twinkle in ZOS's eyes.

Skyrim was released on 11/11/2011, and ZOS began developing ESO in 2007, so ESO was already more than a twinkle in ZOS's eyes back when you were playing Skyrim.

AzuraFan wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

As far as Arena and Daggerfall, I like the way they use dungeon modules that fit together in numerous combinations to create a variety of dungeons. Daggerfall has more modules than Arena, and there is greater diversity in how they can fit together, but I actually think that most of Arena's modules feel more "dungeony," whereas many of Daggerfall's modules are primarily a lot of long, twisty-turny passages with only a few small rooms thrown in here and there. But the overall concept of creating many dungeons out of "pre-fabricated modules" seems like something ESO might be able to adapt for generating random dungeons on the fly. When the Infinite Archive was first announced, I had hoped it might be something along these lines. It seems like it could be interesting if done right.

I liked the variety, but yeah, sometimes Daggerfall's dungeons were ludicrously unrealistic, with twisting passages above and below each other, or just configurations that didn't make sense. But for the time, it was really ambitious.

I remember spending at least an hour trying to navigate my way through a convoluted dungeon in Daggerfall, looking for a book for a quest. When I found the book, it was in a puddle, and my swimming attribute wasn't high enough to fish it out. Literally a puddle! I wasn't impressed lol.

I actually feel like Arena's swimming and handling of water is more realistic than Daggerfall's. Sure, Daggerfall lets you swim under the water, whereas Arena only lets you swim on the water's surface. But in Daggerfall it seems like water basically has the same density as air, because you can swing your weapons or shoot arrows from your bow as though the water doesn't even exist. Plus, while you're underwater you can encounter non-aquatic enemies such as rats, bats, bears, spiders, harpies, warriors, etc who move and act as though there's no water. And then there are the people you get sent to find, such as lost researchers or rampaging drunkards from the temple, who are sometimes found underwater acting as though they're in a normal room filled with air. "Goodness, have I really been down here for two weeks? I must have lost all track of time! Well, I'll make my way back to the temple now." Or the Mages Guild will send you to find some Lich Dust that's underwater, looking like a nice, dry pile of dust.

robwolf666 · February 8

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

[Skyrim was released on 11/11/2011, and ZOS began developing ESO in 2007, so ESO was already more than a twinkle in ZOS's eyes back when you were playing Skyrim.

I have no idea when they first started thinking about it or working on it (ESO) tbh, I thought it was just a fun line to say. Short and curlies though, I was playing Elder Scrolls long before ESO was released.

AzuraFan · February 8

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I actually feel like Arena's swimming and handling of water is more realistic than Daggerfall's. Sure, Daggerfall lets you swim under the water, whereas Arena only lets you swim on the water's surface. But in Daggerfall it seems like water basically has the same density as air, because you can swing your weapons or shoot arrows from your bow as though the water doesn't even exist.

I don't remember much about the handling of water in Arena and Daggerfall. I haven't played either game for years. I've tried, but I'd need a remaster to enjoy them again. I remember finding that book in a puddle (literally a puddle!) because of how long, and how much frustration, it took me to find the thing, only to discover that apparently I couldn't pick it up, which made no sense. It would have been impossible for me to swim in the puddle.

Definitely a bug, and I remember Daggerfall being full of them. In fact, I'm not even sure I was able to finish Daggerfall because of the bugs I ran into. This was back when it was released. Maybe the many bugs have been fixed by now.

Erickson9610 · February 8

I don't actively play the older TES games the way I actively play ESO, but I do have fond memories of them. Maybe I'll play them again some time.

As with ESO, my primary draw to the TES games is whether or not they have playable werewolves. Oblivion lacked playable werewolves, so I have not given that game much playtime at all. Though, I have played Skyrim and Morrowind.

I like how Skyrim's werewolf looks and animates — it's probably the best werewolf design in media. Being able to devour corpses was a lot of fun, and those killmoves you'd perform where you pin your enemy down and slaughter them were great. I just wish ESO kept the bloodstains on the muzzle when feeding, because that was the one improvement over Skyrim that ESO had. I would go from town to town, slaughtering everyone and devouring their hearts, and I'd end up with a full in-game week's worth of transformation time left. It was awesome.

Morrowind's werewolves felt powerful. You could run incredibly fast and jump incredibly far. It feels as if you're in a horror movie from the perspective of the monster. Though, I miss the ability to sneak in werewolf form that Morrowind's werewolves could do. I also liked being able to contract lycanthropy from rare werewolf enemies in the wild before doing the story quest that guarantees infection. Finally, I loved the werewolf side of the Solstheim main quest over The Companions questline from Skyrim — the direct interaction with Hircine himself made me feel like an important character in the story, whereas almost all of The Companions ended up curing themselves of lycanthropy, which is a bummer.