As much as I am in favor of lowering the power level of subclassing, people really should just accept the fact that its a part of the game and zos is not getting rid of it. Its not really good for any discussion to ask for subclassing to be rolled back.

It aint happening whether you think it should be or not and I actually don't think it should.

Balance is all that is needed, not making subclassing stronger or weaker than pure classing and thats already what Zos is working on as was stated. Rest of this is unnecessary bait.

Subclassing has been disastrous for the game, people who defend it are not going to help bringing those people back who left due to that.

I'm sorry but subclassing could've been fun and interesting if it was properly implemented but it was not and there's literally no drawbacks to subclass which ruined the point of chosing any "Class". What's the point of Class now? Class scripts and IA sets only?

I'm sure even 10 years from now, the forums will get the occasional post with tearful requests to remove subclassing which totally killed the game and totally killed all balance, and totally made like... 80% of the playerbase leave solely due to subclassing. And ZoS totally needs to remove a 10 year old system asap unless they want their game to immediately die, because for sure, this time the poster's and commenters' threat to leave the game forever, is absolutely 100% true.

Meanwhile strangely, those posts are always made by the same people, and the comments are made by the same people, and strangely they are all still here. And of those people who left, nobody can prove that they left due to subclassing, but of course it is very convenient to try and dump it on whatever aspect one dislikes in the game. Hey, let me try this. I believe with all my heart that everybody left due to crown crates, now quick, remove all loot boxes from the game or else it will die! I'm sure this will work just as well as the request to remove subclassing btw.

Balance was an issue before subclassing, balance is an issue during subclassing, and if ever subclassing went away, balance would remain an issue. Why? Because you solve balance issues by BALANCING. You do not solve them by introducing or removing entire systems. You sit down and you go through all the skills and the potencies, and the resource costs, and the damage, and all the numbers. You change the numbers here and there, and you do it again and again and again. You do it constantly. All the time. As long as the game continues to live, you continue to rebalance. If you don't do that, then duh. You have unbalance. This is a horse we have beaten to death a year ago, there is really nothing left to even say here.

Beam is such a perfect example, that it boggles the mind how people fail to see it. People used beam. People are using beam. People will continue using beam. People will literally always be using beam. Why? BECAUSE. BEAM. STRONG. Crazy concept, I know. Long before subclassing rolled around, everybody was running around with green beam. Why? BECAUSE. BEAM. STRONG. And then you ask the forums - "Alright, how do we solve the issue of the overly strong beam?". And the answer will somehow be... "uhh... by... removing subclassing?" NO. Wrong answer, Timmy. The answer is - "By. making. strong beam. weaker." Aka balancing the game.

Good grief! A simple adjustment to Fatecarver and there is no issue.
Stop blaming subclassing because players will just make more "pure" Arcanists and Fatecarver would remain.

rockDokRock wrote: »

Abelon wrote: »

Beam is such a perfect example, that it boggles the mind how people fail to see it. People used beam. People are using beam. People will continue using beam. People will literally always be using beam. Why? BECAUSE. BEAM. STRONG. Crazy concept, I know. Long before subclassing rolled around, everybody was running around with green beam. Why? BECAUSE. BEAM. STRONG. And then you ask the forums - "Alright, how do we solve the issue of the overly strong beam?". And the answer will somehow be... "uhh... by... removing subclassing?" NO. Wrong answer, Timmy. The answer is - "By. making. strong beam. weaker." Aka balancing the game.

Not sure I see the problem here. I have one Arcanist I use occasionally. He's fun and hits hard. Why not buff others and raise the bar elsewhere rather than nerf some groups into the ground? That seems to be a more reasonable (and fun) option.

I don't get the hate for the beam. If you don't like it, don't use it. And I'm all for buffing other classes to raise the bar elsewhere.

I can give a real world example from another game. Another game I like to play is Apex Legends. For years they took the nerf approach to solving balance issues (imagined or real). People would complain non stop and they would nerf a legend into the ground such that they were literally unplayable. In the last couple of years they changed their direction 100% and are buffing other legends to compete. This has been much more interesting and healthy for the game and does not screw over people who have played a particular legend for a long time suddenly finding out that investment was wasted and they are now unplayable. Why not do the same here? Rather than get your beam hate on demand the bar is raised elsewhere? Positive vs Negative approach.

I don't care if they nerf or buff, nor do I hate fatecarver. The point is - removing subclassing doesn't solve anything. For the sake of balancing they simply need to adjust appropriate numbers. Plus, minus, whatever, is irrelevant. Remove subclassing and the numbers and lack of balance still stay as they were, you still need to balance everything same as before.